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posted by mrpg on Friday May 28, @11:26AM   Printer-friendly
from the what-could-go-wrong dept.

Ohio lawmakers want to abolish vaccine requirements:

[...] Lawmakers are working on legislation to call off the lottery immediately. They're also trying to head off any plans for "vaccine passports." And last month, they introduced a sweeping antivaccination bill that would essentially demolish public health and vaccination requirements in the state—and not just requirements for COVID-19 vaccines, requirements for any vaccine.

[...] State Rep. Beth Liston (D-Dublin) blasted the bill, telling The Columbus Dispatch, "Not only would it prevent schools, businesses and communities from putting safety measures in pace related to COVID, it will impact the health of our children... This bill applies to all vaccines—polio, measles, meningitis, etc. If it becomes law we will see worsening measles outbreaks, meningitis in the dorms, and children once again suffering from polio."

[...] "At its core, this proposal would destroy our current public health framework that prevents outbreaks of potentially lethal diseases, threatens the stability of our economy as it recovers from a devastating pandemic and jeopardizes the way we live, learn, work and celebrate life," the letter said.

[...] "HB 248 would put all Ohioans at risk while increasing the cost of health care for families, individuals and businesses," spokesperson Dan Williamson said. "This proposal applies to all immunizations, including childhood vaccines. If passed, this legislation could reverse decades of immunity from life-threatening, but vaccine-preventable diseases such as measles, mumps, hepatitis, meningitis and tuberculosis."

Also: Ohio GOP lawmakers, citing 'need to protect' from vaccines, seek to expand exemptions, nix COVID passports


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by WizardFusion on Friday May 28, @12:03PM (95 children)

    by WizardFusion (498) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 28, @12:03PM (#1139601) Journal

    What the fuck are you people doing over there?

    There are people that want the vaccine but can't get it, the US has it but actively doesn't want it.

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by epitaxial on Friday May 28, @12:09PM (47 children)

    by epitaxial (3165) on Friday May 28, @12:09PM (#1139603)

    It's mostly the republican party moving further to the right. At some point they will reach parity with Sharia law and the Taliban. Make no mistake they would write the literal interpretation of the bible into law if they could. Which would be pretty amusing when all the women teachers would be forced to quit as the bible forbids that. Wait is that the old or new testament?

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by zocalo on Friday May 28, @01:31PM (1 child)

      by zocalo (302) on Friday May 28, @01:31PM (#1139618)
      The most Sharia-like rules and judicial stuff in the Bible is in Leviticus, which is the old testament. If you're familiar with Gilead in "The Handmaid's Tale", it goes even further than that in what people (mostly women, not not always) are not allowed to do, and is also quite specific about specific. There's a lot of stoning, IIRC.
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 5, Funny) by sjames on Friday May 28, @07:41PM

        by sjames (2882) on Friday May 28, @07:41PM (#1139813) Journal

        Interestingly, it's the Republicans that want to stone people for getting stoned.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by HammeredGlass on Friday May 28, @01:55PM (8 children)

      by HammeredGlass (12241) on Friday May 28, @01:55PM (#1139623)

      If Christians wanted to be pedants about what should be considered an obsolete covenant per Hebrews 8:13, then the only limitation on teaching that women are bound by would be from Timothy 2:12 and it states that a woman will merely not teach men. Boys under the age of manhood can be taught by women.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:57PM (5 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:57PM (#1139856)

        17 Do not suppose that I came to throw down the Law or the Prophets—I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill; 18 for truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth may pass away, one iota or one tittle may not pass away from the Law, until all may come to pass. 19 Therefore whoever may loose one of these commands—the least—and may teach men so, he will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens, but whoever may do and may teach [them], he will be called great in the kingdom of the heavens. 20 For I say to you that if your righteousness may not abound above that of the scribes and Pharisees, you may not enter into the kingdom of the heavens.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @01:10PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @01:10PM (#1140008)

          above that of the scribes and Pharisees

          Interesting... even in Biblical times, bureaucrats were considered pariahs?

        • (Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Sunday May 30, @06:06PM (3 children)

          by HammeredGlass (12241) on Sunday May 30, @06:06PM (#1140300)

          Masoretic apologia

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 31, @05:13AM (2 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 31, @05:13AM (#1140440)

            The words out of his mouth vs the words of a guy who never met him in an antilegomena outside the biblical canon of a surprisingly large percentage of Christians.

            • (Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Monday May 31, @02:40PM (1 child)

              by HammeredGlass (12241) on Monday May 31, @02:40PM (#1140498)

              Acts 15

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 01, @03:45AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 01, @03:45AM (#1140643)

                His own words vs. an anonymous author who never met him, who claimed to be an accomplice of Paul despite repeatedly contradicting Paul and his writings.

      • (Score: 2) by PinkyGigglebrain on Friday May 28, @10:12PM (1 child)

        by PinkyGigglebrain (4458) on Friday May 28, @10:12PM (#1139860)

        Thanks for the pointer to Hebrew 8:13

        Now I have something I can throw back at members of my Aunt's family when they start justifying their bigotry and prejudice by spouting off Leviticus and other Old Testament based bullshit.

        If I ever talk to any of them again that is.

        --
        "Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:27PM (7 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:27PM (#1139633)

      Think about what you're saying for a minute, instead of just enjoying the circle jerk. Religion is generally not big on individual liberty. This act says that the government cannot force you to inject substances into your body without your consent. It is religion that always insists it knows what is good for you, and if you don't abide - then it's time for force.

      Part of the reason I've moved away from modern liberalism is because of things like this. Liberalism derives from liberty. Having the highest ranking figures in society decide what is best for people and then forcing that upon them with intolerance for differing views is the literal definition of authoritarianism, and is a just a hair's width away from fascism.

      This is also why, increasingly, I think that left and right are no longer the main divides in society. But rather libertarianism vs authoritarianism. On the left/right stuff, I think the bulk of society is mostly pretty closely aligned (even if the extremes get 95% of media coverage). But I think on the authoritarianism vs libertarianism, there is a growing divide right in the middle of society that is completely independent of left vs right.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by EJ on Friday May 28, @02:49PM (2 children)

        by EJ (2452) on Friday May 28, @02:49PM (#1139645)

        Be careful with your wrongthink. You aren't allowed to say such things out loud.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:23PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:23PM (#1139743)

          It's not just the Republican party. Both sides have gone batshit insane. There is a method to their madness, though. They are playing both sides against the middle. The left and the right don't want unity. They don't want us to come together because then they lose their control over us.

          Be careful with your wrongthink. You aren't allowed to say such things out loud.

          Criticizes both sides for not wanting unity, purposefully misstates the the views of the opposition.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @08:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @08:50PM (#1139831)

          Funny how simple criticism gets you all up on your "wrongthink" pedestal, along with the cancel culture freakouts, etc. Turns out conservatives are the cancel culture cheerleaders and for wrongthink all I have to do is say the world "socialism" and watch the death threats come in.

          You lot are so far off your rockers with this imagined persecution complex simply because people don't like your ideas or your attempts to infringe on the rights of others because MuH FrEEdUmS. Spinning yourselves as the true liberty loving libertarians just belies your ignorant selfishness that is quite unhinged from reality.

          The US has plenty of authoritarian issues and bad policies, but freaking out over the rules during a pandemic instead of the truly police-state stuff makes you look really really bad. To those of us not in the qult it is quite obvious how politically driven the mask/vaxx issue is, but a good chunk of pandemic freakout catches even more of you. What a perfect storm for rubes. Don't get vaccinated if you don't want, just stop whining about people thinking you're an idiot.

          True FREEDOM is anarchy, and we already know that shit doesn't work. Maybe in a few millenia once humans have evolved a little further from their base instincts.

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday May 28, @04:34PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday May 28, @04:34PM (#1139714) Journal

        This act says that the government cannot force you to inject substances into your body without your consent.

        Nope. This act PROHIBITS the free market from deciding that endangering their customers is a bad idea. You are encroaching on my property rights by saying I can't keep dangerous fuckwits off my property.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:37PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:37PM (#1139716)

        How's the Freedom is not Free argument working when it's on the other boot? You're free not to take a vaccine so then you are Free to home-school your kids.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 01, @12:32AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 01, @12:32AM (#1140612) Journal

        This act says that the government cannot force you to inject substances into your body without your consent. It is religion that always insists it knows what is good for you, and if you don't abide - then it's time for force.

        What those dangerous, preventable diseases that vaccines vaccinate against? Do people have a right not to be infected by others without their consent?

      • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Wednesday June 02, @12:03PM

        by hendrikboom (1125) on Wednesday June 02, @12:03PM (#1141012) Homepage Journal

        Religion is generally not big on individual liberty.

        True of organized religion.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Sourcery42 on Friday May 28, @02:33PM (12 children)

      by Sourcery42 (6400) on Friday May 28, @02:33PM (#1139635)

      We're just furthering our transition from United States of America into Dumbfuckistan. Fascists and the religious right have siezed control of our ultra-conservative party and are hellbent on imposing their will on others. All but the most progressive leaning of our "Liberal" party would be considered at best centrist in most developed nations.

      Asimov said it better, "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @03:21PM (4 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @03:21PM (#1139659)

        As our country moves further and further towards extremism, the meme that our ostensibly "liberal" agendas would be considered normal in "most developed nations" is becoming more and more out of touch. This [jhu.edu] is a list of countries by vaccination percents. You might notice that "most developed nations" have dramatically lower vaccination rates than the US. And it's not because they don't have access to said vaccines, but because personal liberty tends to be a bigger factor. I currently live in the developing world, and even over here you can trivially get vaccinated if you want to (and for free). In fact they're even doing the exact same thing over here where they're giving away chances to win free gold necklaces and other things to people that agree to get vaccinated. Suffice to say the "problem" is not a lack of vaccines, much as I expect your media may have convinced you otherwise.

        Even governments in "most developed nations" are vastly more cautious. For instance the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines have been banned or many of the "most developed nations" including Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and others. Yet over here, we actively work to censor even the discussion of a negative risk:reward for *any* vaccine, and suggesting as much is seen as justification for digital lynch mobs to try to destroy people's lives.

        The problem is not our liberalism, but our authoritarianism and self delusion. You are here literally arguing that somebody saying the government should not be able to *force* people to inject things, without their consent, is somebody "imposing their will on others." It makes no sense whatsoever, and I suspect 10 years from now you'll convince yourself you never even held such beliefs. Because right now we're headed down a very dark road, that's been traveled many times before. And that road, in spite of how awful a place it leads to, is paved with nothing but good intentions.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:40PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:40PM (#1139720)

          Got it, vaccines are like Zyklon-B.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 29, @04:31AM (1 child)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 29, @04:31AM (#1139948) Journal

          This [jhu.edu] is a list of countries by vaccination percents. You might notice that "most developed nations" have dramatically lower vaccination rates than the US.

          Did it cross your mind that there can be heaps of causes to explain it?
          Including US hoarding the vaccine supplies for itself, to the point of other developed nations having to beg for help [ctvnews.ca]?

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @01:55PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @01:55PM (#1140023)

            In this day and age of suggesting the headline of an article explains it all, some forget that elaboration and details are often proffered just beyond the first sentence.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 30, @06:21AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 30, @06:21AM (#1140199)

          I moved from the Netherlands to Sweden one month ago. Both the Netherlands and Sweden currently prioritize elderly, and behind that the at-risk groups for getting the vaccine. I am in an at-risk group myself due to asthma.

          I only just received an invitation to come get the vaccine from the dutch gov just one week ago. (It was forwarded to my new Swedish mail address by the dutch post company.)

          In other words: I would like to get the vaccine but simply haven't been able to yet due to shortages/rationing in the past few months before I moved.

          So please do not use currently vaccinated numbers in Europe as some kind of evidence for widespread anti-vaccin sentiment. Me and many others want to get it, once we get our turn.

          I expect the numbers will improve drastically as vaccines before more widely available.

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by ChrisMaple on Friday May 28, @03:22PM (6 children)

        by ChrisMaple (6964) on Friday May 28, @03:22PM (#1139660)

        There is no significant "ultra-conservative" party in the U.S.. If there were, you would hear widespread calls for the end of the income tax, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, antitrust laws, mandatory insurance laws, and many others. Religious conservative politicians would be proposing that Sunday closing of retail businesses be mandatory.

        People in the center and non-religious right just want to be left alone by government, so that they can go about living and enjoying their own lives. This means that they don't seek government jobs. Leftists and other authoritarians want to order people around and take their stuff, so they seek government employment. That employment includes teaching, so that they corrupt the minds of youngsters and push a leftward agenda, which results in an increasingly leftist population. What Europe and the US accept now as normal would have been viewed as absurd 60 years ago.

        In a 1967 or 1968 speech at MIT, Asimov said "I voted for Johnson but I got Goldwater", meaning he thought he was voting to end unnecessary military action. That Asimov did not realize what Johnson was illustrates Asimov's complete and utter incompetence in political and cultural judgement.

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:00PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:00PM (#1139682)

          > Leftists and other authoritarians

          From where I sit, these are orthogonal--authoritarians come in every political stripe.

          Many people like to be told what to do, sometimes I think this is intellectual laziness, they just don't want to take the time to do their own thinking. Another weakness (extremely common, I've caught myself in this one) is succumbing to repetition--if you hear something enough times (or in early life) why then, it must be true[NOT]. Anyway, for whatever reason, this portion of the population is ripe for the picking by the small group of people that make up the "charismatic" leaders.

          I'm automatically leery of anyone promising easy answers.
           

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday May 28, @04:42PM

          by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday May 28, @04:42PM (#1139723) Journal

          There is no significant "ultra-conservative" party in the U.S.

          If there were, you would hear widespread calls for the end of the income tax,

          Republican States Struggle With How to Replace Income Taxes [bloombergtax.com]

          Social Security,

          Trump's Second-Term Plan For Social Security: Starve The Beast [forbes.com]

          Medicare, Medicaid,

          GOP takes aim at Social Security, Medicare [fayobserver.com]

          welfare

          LOL!!!!!

          antitrust laws

          Bush administration abandons court fight for Microsoft breakup, seeks lesser penalty [tahoedailytribune.com]

          mandatory insurance laws

          Yep, they're HUGE fans of Obamacare

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:43PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:43PM (#1139724)

          > People in the center and non-religious right just want to be left alone by government

          I mean... WTF? You might as call them Good Guys and Bad Guys. Dipshit.

        • (Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Friday May 28, @11:42PM (2 children)

          by edIII (791) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 28, @11:42PM (#1139883)

          None of that has anything to do with vaccines and safety. Medicine is not political. Vaccines are not political. Face masks are not political. They're about FUCKING SURVIVAL.

          Reduce America down to a single town of a few thousand people. Introduce a deadly biological pathogen. 500 years ago we would be burning some people at the stake out of ignorance having made it religious. That God was punishing us for some reason. There would be fervent and unanswered prayers about why it was happening. Evil sociopaths would use it as a tool to consolidate or take power.

          Look at today. We're blessed with advanced science and medical. There is no ignorance. We even have pictures of the pathogen and sophisticated understanding of its workings. Within 12 months we've developed an effective treatment.

          If you're refusing to get the vaccine, you're a danger to society. Period. Those few dozen or hundred people in the town will be expelled by the rest because they're a danger. You've seen plenty of movies, and read plenty of books I'm sure, that outline how that shit plays out. Those that argue and refuse to take the steps necessary get their brains eaten by the zombies after being shoved outside. Or shoved out an airlock, or shoved off the boat. Those that did weren't being unreasonable, it was those that were being shoved out that were the unreasonable parties.

          It's a fucking face mask and injection. To stop a deadly pathogen. It's about survival period, and if you're not cooperating, your're objectively a danger to yourself and those around you. Then it's completely reasonable to take action against you. There is nothing political about it. There is no reasonable discussion of freedoms and rights, when those freedom and rights are directly, objectively, and profoundly endangering the rest of the people in the town. Nobody agrees to that social contract, that you get fundamental rights to put the rest of us at serious risk. If you want those rights so bad, then leave our society.

          The only reasonable question you can raise is if the vaccine causes you harm, and the only reasonable doubt you can have is if the purveyors of the vaccine are operating in a correct fashion. Those both have answers. Universal Health Care and the Death Penalty.

          If the vaccine causes you harm, you will be taken care of medically regardless. There shouldn't be any harm because those responsible for the creation and manufacturing are monitored and strictly regulated. If they do anything, especially in the name of Capitalism and Profits, that knowingly causes harm and death to thousands or worse.... well then that is prison time and penalties up to and including death.

          I'm tired of hearing this bullshit about leftism, the extreme far right, and civil rights. This is about surviving a profoundly deadly biological war waged upon us by nature. Science and reason is asking for so very little. Not your firstborn, not prima nocta, not indentured servitude. Just a fucking mask, some soap and water, and taking a vaccine that can finally bring us back to some normalcy. Assuming we ever had it.

          It is not totalitarianism to ask you to not be a danger to society if you want to be in it.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @02:04PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @02:04PM (#1140025)

            In times past, they wouldn't have even noticed less than 1% of people dying slightly faster than expected. Note the median age of death for COVID is 83 [ons.gov.uk]. They'd have seen folks catching cold, some passing, and moved on with their lives.

            As an aside, this is also why the fear mongering about Africa ended up being completely absurd. COVID was supposed to wreak a trail of death and destruction through Africa unless they all got vaccinated, locked down, etc.. They ended up neither vaccinated nor locked down (with some exceptions like South Africa). And the result? Basically nothing. The median age in countries throughout Africa tends to be *extremely* low, and as COVID has next to no effect on the young, their resultant deaths from COVID have been non-existent.

            You probably won't realize this for many years to come, but you're the sort of person that would have been cheering on the burning of witches in one era, or hunting of heretics in another. You know, dangers to society.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday June 01, @12:36AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday June 01, @12:36AM (#1140613) Journal

              In times past, they wouldn't have even noticed less than 1% of people dying slightly faster than expected.

              We have better knowledge and technology than they had. We notice what they would have ignored.

    • (Score: 0, Insightful) by EJ on Friday May 28, @02:39PM (12 children)

      by EJ (2452) on Friday May 28, @02:39PM (#1139639)

      It's not just the Republican party. Both sides have gone batshit insane. There is a method to their madness, though. They are playing both sides against the middle. The left and the right don't want unity. They don't want us to come together because then they lose their control over us.

      If either side becomes more moderate, then the majority might realize that the vocal minority of both parties are the real problem, and the rest of us have much more in common than the news media would like you to believe.

      • (Score: 1, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Friday May 28, @04:02PM (11 children)

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday May 28, @04:02PM (#1139685) Journal

        There is no "both sides". The DNC/GOP is a power sharing coalition, working together to keep the competition out. The "opposition" is theater. They are very successful, receiving 98% of the vote every time. Xi, in China, only got 75% of the vote

        --
        Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
        • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday May 28, @04:20PM (6 children)

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Friday May 28, @04:20PM (#1139702)

          For reasons I don't understand I can't mod parent up, but they've got a very sharp point worth considering.

          There is no "both sides". The DNC/GOP is a power sharing coalition, working together to keep the competition out. The "opposition" is theater. They are very successful, receiving 98% of the vote every time. Xi, in China, only got 75% of the vote

          OOF!

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:39PM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:39PM (#1139749)

            Uh... never mind Fusty. He is forever and always trying to incite a class war. It's his shtick. It's the same sharp point over and over and over. His world is monochrome.

            --
            He'll never tell you why its wrong, or what else might be better - only that you should hate it.

            • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday May 28, @06:42PM (4 children)

              by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday May 28, @06:42PM (#1139790) Journal

              always trying to incite a class war

              Vive la révolution!

              --
              Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @04:35AM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @04:35AM (#1139950)

                High RPM, yes.

                • (Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday May 29, @04:57AM (2 children)

                  by fustakrakich (6150) on Saturday May 29, @04:57AM (#1139953) Journal

                  331/3

                  --
                  Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @05:05AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @05:05AM (#1139955)

                    Raise you to 45, better tone dynamics.

                    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @06:50AM

                      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @06:50AM (#1139976)

                      Ah who can forget the raspy tones of 45.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:47PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:47PM (#1139728)

          I know right? It's the pits. Happy to hear your alternative, better form of self-governance.

          • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday May 30, @03:20AM (1 child)

            by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Sunday May 30, @03:20AM (#1140170)

            I have a strong libertarian bent. With that as background, my slipshod understanding of history leads me to believe that Humans aren't good enough people to thrive under either pure libertarianism or communism.

            Representative Democracy isn't much better at compensating for human fallibility, but it's the best we've found so far.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 30, @11:06AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 30, @11:06AM (#1140223)

              Representative Democracy isn't much better at compensating for human fallibility, but it's the best we've found so far.

              Real pity it doesn't exist in the US then.

        • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday May 29, @02:23AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 29, @02:23AM (#1139912) Journal
          Xi never had competition. The two major political parties have each other. There is a significant difference between a monopoly and a duopoly.
    • (Score: 2) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday May 28, @05:51PM (1 child)

      by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday May 28, @05:51PM (#1139759)

      Given something that's working, like vaccination programs, a classic conservative would be reluctant to change it.

      A fear-based conservative would prioritize public safety measures.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @06:52AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @06:52AM (#1139977)

        A dipshit online would post a bunch of bullshit.

  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:09PM (11 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:09PM (#1139627)

    What the fuck are you people doing over there?

    What the fuck are you people doing over there? Wishing for laws where the government can compel you to do anything and rushing headlong into a papers please society?
    I got my jabs but I sure as fuck wouldn't want to be compelled to by law.

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @03:50PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @03:50PM (#1139677)

      The shots are largely pointless if most people don't get them and we've seen what happens with exemptions. Childhood illnesses that had been virtually eradicated from the country are coming back and causing real harm.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:02PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:02PM (#1139686)

        >. The shots are largely pointless

        I'm over 65, the covid vaccine doesn't seem pointless to me. Based on the data I've read, even if I do catch covid (still a possibility) my chances of getting a severe case are greatly reduced.

        • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Friday May 28, @04:25PM

          by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Friday May 28, @04:25PM (#1139707)

          For people in your age cohort and older you are spot on. Vaccination replaces a very real risk of severe COVID impact with a relatively trivial risk of living long enough to discover there is some currently-unknown long-term side effect.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:25PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:25PM (#1139744)

          Only for covered strains and of enough other people don't get vaccinated, the likelihood of mutations that defeat the vaccine increases.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Friday May 28, @05:37PM (6 children)

          by VLM (445) on Friday May 28, @05:37PM (#1139748)

          Another advantage of being old, is it seems inevitable in a decade or two we're going to hear TV commercials along the lines of "If you or a loved one took a covid vaccine in the early 2020s, you may be entitled to compensation, please call 1-800-whatever"

          If you're over 65 and it turns you sterile or gives you cancer in 40 years its like ... well ... nothing personal bro but you weren't going to make it that far anyway. I'm just saying if the vaccine gives you Alzheimer's in 50 years and you make it 50 years that sucks but statistically you're not gonna make it 50 years from now anyway. If the vaccine would have made you hideously ill twenty years after you died naturally of a stroke, it don't matter does it?

          Now give the vaccine to a kid who's 5 and essentially immune to covid anyway due to youth, and now they're sterile or have some awful autoimmune disease or cancer in 30 years and they get killed around the peak of their life, its a real tragedy. Not much potential upside and huge potential downside.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by crafoo on Friday May 28, @06:16PM (3 children)

            by crafoo (6639) on Friday May 28, @06:16PM (#1139777)

            COVID put real fear of mortality into the boomers. There is no amount of damage they won't do, no insane requirement they won't make the younger generations pay, to avoid: responsibility, death, paying the tab.

            • (Score: 2) by Barenflimski on Friday May 28, @06:30PM

              by Barenflimski (6836) on Friday May 28, @06:30PM (#1139787)

              Maybe. Where I'm at though, the millennials are at least as worried and at least as over the top as any other group. In other words, I don't see a big difference in thinking between the millennials, the Xers and the Boomers.

              From my experience, the folks I've talked to that haven't completely lost their minds are fairly well distributed among all of the groups.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday May 29, @02:31AM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 29, @02:31AM (#1139920) Journal

              COVID put real fear of mortality into the boomers. There is no amount of damage they won't do, no insane requirement they won't make the younger generations pay, to avoid: responsibility, death, paying the tab.

              I find it interesting how responsibility is evoked to avoid your responsibility. Here's my take. I respect the Boomer generation. They did a lot for us. I don't respect someone who evokes imaginary generational conflict to avoid doing the responsible thing. Be a man. Get the damn vaccine so you aren't helping spread covid.

            • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Sunday May 30, @03:23AM

              by ElizabethGreene (6748) on Sunday May 30, @03:23AM (#1140172)

              This does not match my non-scientific anecdotal observations. My Boomer friends were the ones pushing back hardest against the lockdowns extending into the fall, mask mandates, store closures, etc. Are you seeing something different on the ground?

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Friday May 28, @09:07PM

            by sjames (2882) on Friday May 28, @09:07PM (#1139840) Journal

            Unless, of course, it means that in 20 years or so the now 25 year old is diagnosed with post-COVID syndrome. Or Grandpa dies of COVID and a few years later the kid realizes he might have been the asymptomatic carrier that gave it to him...

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 29, @05:03AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 29, @05:03AM (#1139954) Journal

            essentially immune to covid anyway due to youth

            May seem pedantic, but the kids are not inherently immune. They are less likely to die or suffer complications from it.
            I bet the premature born ones are a lot more likely to get a nasty form of it than those brought to term.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by RedGreen on Friday May 28, @02:20PM (27 children)

    by RedGreen (888) on Friday May 28, @02:20PM (#1139630)

    "What the fuck are you people doing over there?

    There are people that want the vaccine but can't get it, the US has it but actively doesn't want it."

    Republicans are racist fascist fucking morons and Democrats are spineless bastards who want to sit around and do nothing with the murdering thugs. A four decade long at least quest by the right wing garbage to undermine democracy at every turn yet they continue to put up with it, Eisenhower warned of the signs of it in the 1950s. Along with the Russians and now the Chinese who have long manipulated them into a cycle of self-destructive BS and they just lap it up. Showing their lies about freedom and equality they lived all the country's existence, we are in a war without a shot being fired by them. Sadly the west loses badly as that infection has taken hold in all the democracies of the world too, these weak slimy bastard politicians of all stripes going for power above all else at the expense of the people of this planet. I expect that behaviour from the dictators it is nothing new to history for them, the good governments used to at least try to be different now unless we have massive turn around it looks grim.

    --
    "I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by ChrisMaple on Friday May 28, @03:32PM (25 children)

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Friday May 28, @03:32PM (#1139667)

      In 1830 Andrew Jackson and Martin van Buren formed the Democratic Party for the purpose of protecting, promoting, and preserving race-based chattel slavery. In 1896 William Jennings Bryan added theft to the Democratic Party agenda. Nothing significant has changed since then.

      The Republican Party was formed in 1854 with the abolition of slavery as its primary goal. That has not changed, either.

      • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by fustakrakich on Friday May 28, @04:04PM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Friday May 28, @04:04PM (#1139688) Journal

        And now (ok, 53 years ago) they have merged

        --
        Ok, we paid the ransom. Do I get my dog back? REDЯUM
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Beryllium Sphere (r) on Friday May 28, @05:54PM (21 children)

        by Beryllium Sphere (r) (5062) on Friday May 28, @05:54PM (#1139762)

        They switched sides in the 20th century. Extensively documented.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy [wikipedia.org]

        • (Score: 0, Troll) by crafoo on Friday May 28, @06:21PM (20 children)

          by crafoo (6639) on Friday May 28, @06:21PM (#1139779)

          A lie, told often enough, doesn't make it true. No one switched sides. The left still openly and gleefully promotes slavery. I mean, they are too stupid to realize communism = slavery, but then democrats have never been all that intelligent.

          • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @06:57PM (15 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @06:57PM (#1139797)

            Slavery is where you can't leave your job because you will wind up homeless, pennyless and without health care for anyone in your family. There is a reason why the RWNJ's try to destroy every safety net ever legislated - they do the bidding of the slavers whose aim is to indenture everybody.

            • (Score: 2) by sjames on Friday May 28, @09:14PM (10 children)

              by sjames (2882) on Friday May 28, @09:14PM (#1139843) Journal

              In support of your statement, low wage employers have been wringing their hands over not enough people applying for their really shitty jobs. It's the Republicans that want an early end to enhanced unemployment benefits to force people to stop looking for a decent job and accept a crappy McJob now.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 30, @05:38AM (9 children)

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 30, @05:38AM (#1140190) Journal

                an early end to enhanced unemployment benefits to force people to stop looking for a decent job

                Sounds like those recipients aren't looking for jobs at all, much less the elusive decent job. Not a good argument for UBI or the OP's "statement", let us note.

                And of course, it's more important to get tribal and thwart them evil Republicans, rather than doing something good.

                The obvious rebuttal is that a crappy McJob gives you more freedom than than temporary government benefits that can be turned off at any time. You can always get another McJob at the drop of a hat. You can't always get another government.

                • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday May 30, @08:27AM (8 children)

                  by sjames (2882) on Sunday May 30, @08:27AM (#1140212) Journal

                  OTOH, it's a bit hard to go job hunting and interviewing if you're too busy asking "Want fries with that?".

                  There are actually stats showing that employers a level or two above McJobs are having little to no difficulty recruiting. The potential employees are out there and they can be hired without bending them over a barrel, it's just that the McEmployers aren't willing to do what it takes.

                  Many of the very same employers who were crying poverty in 2019 when raising minimum wage was being debated seem to have come up with the money to offer $15/hour now (in spite of a terrible year). They too are managing to find new employees.

                  • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 30, @11:57AM (7 children)

                    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 30, @11:57AM (#1140230) Journal

                    OTOH, it's a bit hard to go job hunting and interviewing if you're too busy asking "Want fries with that?".

                    Is it too much to expect people to do things that are a "bit hard"?

                    There are actually stats showing that employers a level or two above McJobs are having little to no difficulty recruiting.

                    Why again is that supposed to excuse screwing over McJobs employers and McJobs workers? How is someone supposed to get employers a level or two above McJobs when one's recent work history has a year or two gap?

                    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday May 30, @04:06PM (6 children)

                      by sjames (2882) on Sunday May 30, @04:06PM (#1140269) Journal

                      How are McJobs workers being screwed over by getting a chance to look hard for something better? The McJobs employers have been screwing the workers over for years and now the chickens are home to roost. Note that the ones that started offering better pay started getting applicants.

                      The employers a level or two above have a year long gap themselves, they're not going to look too hard at that right now.

                      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 30, @09:58PM (5 children)

                        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 30, @09:58PM (#1140335) Journal

                        How are McJobs workers being screwed over by getting a chance to look hard for something better?

                        They already have the chance. Now, they're getting paid to slack off. Some will make those bad choices. And since the earlier poster was equating bad choices with slavery, this is more such bad choices that they can equate with slavery, should they choose to be fair.

                        The McJobs employers have been screwing the workers over for years and now the chickens are home to roost.

                        In rhetoric not reality.

                        The employers a level or two above have a year long gap themselves, they're not going to look too hard at that right now.

                        Because? It's always an issue.

                        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Monday May 31, @01:45AM (4 children)

                          by sjames (2882) on Monday May 31, @01:45AM (#1140396) Journal

                          So you're saying people will be happier if a central authority takes excessive choices away from them for their own good?

                          Arbeit macht frei perhaps?

                          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 31, @02:06AM (3 children)

                            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 31, @02:06AM (#1140402) Journal

                            So you're saying people will be happier if a central authority takes excessive choices away from them for their own good?

                            No. I'm saying we'll all be better off, if government stops paying people to be bums.

                            • (Score: 2) by sjames on Monday May 31, @02:50AM (2 children)

                              by sjames (2882) on Monday May 31, @02:50AM (#1140411) Journal

                              But apparently they're not being bums, they're looking for decently paying work. Employers willing to pay decently are not having any problem hiring.

                              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday May 31, @05:05AM (1 child)

                                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday May 31, @05:05AM (#1140438) Journal

                                apparently

                                No evidence for this "apparently". It sure doesn't appear to me that way.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday May 29, @02:36AM (3 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 29, @02:36AM (#1139921) Journal

              Slavery is where you can't leave your job because you will wind up homeless, pennyless and without health care for anyone in your family.

              Fortunately, the real world is not like slavery because you can get another job and thus not end up homeless, penniless, and without health care for anyone in your family.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @03:27PM (2 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @03:27PM (#1140042)

                Not necessarily. It's a big gamble. It's an even bigger gamble if you've elected to leverage your poverty-tier savings buying something like... Let's say a massively inflated vehicle so you can get to work. Lest we forget that means paying for full coverage auto insurance, which is incredulously expensive. But you don't have to be impoverished to be a slave to debt it's a question of lifestyle. Your oil rigger swine will hyper-leverage in good times and slave unquestioningly to keep his two 4x4's, RV, RAM 2500, and boat paid for. Even modest people who just want a reasonable house can be made slaves if the proportions are correct.

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @07:17PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @07:17PM (#1140077)

                  Slavery is not about pleasant or unpleasant experience but about the direct prevention of liberty.

                  A man who works in a palace, lavished with concubines, and treated generally like royalty is, nonetheless, a slave if he would be directly prevented from ever abandoning said life if he sought to do so. That "you" (a major problem with internet discourse is people speaking for people they know nothing about, but alas) feel coerced to work to maintain your lifestyle does not make you a slave. If you want to give it all up tomorrow and see if you can make it out in the wilds, start pan handling on the streets, or make your way to France and join the Foreign Legion, then you are 100% free to do so. A slave is not and would immediately sought out, and generally reprimanded.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 30, @02:36AM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 30, @02:36AM (#1140155) Journal

                  Not necessarily. It's a big gamble.

                  Compared to "homeless, pennyless and without health care"?

                  It's an even bigger gamble if you've elected to leverage your poverty-tier savings buying something like... Let's say a massively inflated vehicle so you can get to work.

                  If you're buying expensive bling like that, then you have a different opinion of the relative odds of the big gamble. Who am I to disagree?

                  But you don't have to be impoverished to be a slave to debt it's a question of lifestyle. Your oil rigger swine will hyper-leverage in good times and slave unquestioningly to keep his two 4x4's, RV, RAM 2500, and boat paid for. Even modest people who just want a reasonable house can be made slaves if the proportions are correct.

                  Making bad choices or having an expensive lifestyle is not slavery. Words have meaning.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Friday May 28, @08:27PM (3 children)

            by DeathMonkey (1380) on Friday May 28, @08:27PM (#1139821) Journal

            Those aren't lefties toting around Confederate Flags...

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:36PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:36PM (#1139849)

              No, they are the ones burning the American flag.

              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:47PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:47PM (#1139853)

                Which is freedom of speech. Why do you hate freedom bro? Liberals win again, you must be hurtin. How did assaulting democracy work out for you? Seems like blue lives no longer matter to conservatives.

                What do you people actually stand for now?

            • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:41PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @09:41PM (#1139850)

              and literal Nazi flags . . .

      • (Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @05:58PM (#1139767)

        > Nothing significant has changed since then.

        Beginning in 1936, the Democrat and Republican parties swapped platforms. This was the beginning of the current racist, far-right, fascist, religious extremist Republican party that we all know today.

        Unfortunately, while the Republican party went full retard extreme "heil hitler" far-right. The Democratic party remained a right-leaning party, so we live in the dysfunctional hellscape* of a nation ruled from the right.

        https://www.livescience.com/34241-democratic-republican-parties-switch-platforms.html [livescience.com]

        *Shit for profit health care system where US does worse than any 1st or second world nation in metrics like infant mortality-- in fact worse than many poor 3rd world nations. We have a partially private for-profit prison system that imprisons more people both as a percentage of population and as absolute numbers than any other nation. Where judges have been convicted for taking bribes to send innocent children to private prisons destroying their lives. Where the military and the police are well funded, regularly commit atrocities, and are unaccountable. Etc.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @07:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @07:38PM (#1139811)

        And today the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to keep statues of slaveholders up to preserve history. 🙄

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:49PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:49PM (#1139730)

      lol dude put down teh meth pipe and take some rest

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:50PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @02:50PM (#1139647)

    What people have been doing, is thinking Dominionists aren't a thing. Their error leads them to think candidates for office are interested in governing a modern society.

    Dominionists have gotten *VERY* organized internationally in the past few decades, work on packing candidate slates with dominionists, and fund all of them. Non-dominionists have an uphill battle. It's not a problem that a lot of money is wasted pitting seven dominionists against each other in a convention, as long as non-dominionists don't get traction. It's safer, in their view, to fund seven dominionists in a primary and have six of them and one non-dominionist lose, than to fund one big campaign and risk coming in second when actual policy debates come up. If reporters bother reporting, there's enough noise on the channel to distract from the reality.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:51PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @04:51PM (#1139732)

      please dude - the meth? stop sucking for a minute

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Friday May 28, @05:41PM (1 child)

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday May 28, @05:41PM (#1139755)

    I live in Ohio, in a fairly conservative area, so I'm fairly directly affected by all this nonsense. For instance, there are still signs up announcing support for the former president, and in one case there were briefly swastikas shown on it. Back last year, I noticed that local churches were holding events with large groups of people, all unmasked, who probably believe they were perfectly safe because Jesus.

    The nutjobs in my state got the public health director to quit with a combination of online threats to rape and / or murder her or her family, a group of allegedly-disconnected guys walking around in front of her house with guns 24 hours a day 7 days a week, and law enforcement agencies deciding that no crime was occurring in any of this. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people involved in that were also busy being totally-not-violent-just-beating-up-cops "tourists" in Washington DC on January 6.

    Since then, their allies in the state legislature have stripped the governor from having pandemic-response powers. This kind of attempt to ban public health response to the pandemic is completely in character.

    --
    The inverse of "I told you so" is "Nobody could have predicted"
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @07:00AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 29, @07:00AM (#1139978)

      > I live in Ohio

      If you don't like it, go live in North Korea if you hate America so much.

  • (Score: 2) by slinches on Friday May 28, @10:10PM (2 children)

    by slinches (5049) on Friday May 28, @10:10PM (#1139858)

    We were prioritizing getting the US population access to the vaccines developed here and produced them quicker and in greater quantities than most other countries. Now that the demand here is mostly satisfied, you should expect to see more US developed vaccines becoming more widely available elsewhere.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @10:42PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 28, @10:42PM (#1139869)

      Yes and no. We used IP laws to prevent other countries from producing their own shots. One of the companies was even planning to open source their vaccine but Bill Gates convinced them not to do it. Great humanitarian that guy...

      So now that we've vaccinated the American population that wants it, we have shots to sell to other countries. Those countries could have been making their own shots this entire time, but we wouldn't get paid if they did that so it wasn't allowed. We could have licensed the IP, but that also didn't happen because if they made their own manufacturing centers then in the future they might make their own other medications as well. CEOs can't risk any control slipping their company's clutches. The upper levels of USA is all mid-term profit based, morality has no baring on any decisions. They've got theirs and you didn't get yours because you're too stupid to take it like they did.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday May 30, @06:02AM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 30, @06:02AM (#1140197) Journal

        We used IP laws to prevent other countries from producing their own shots.

        If they can produce their own shots, then they can develop their own IP.