SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Finland's Spy Service Warns of Russian Interference, Attacks:
Finland must brace for Russian interference and hybrid attacks as it weighs whether to join the NATO military alliance, the security services warned on Tuesday.
The Nordic nation shares a 1,340-kilometre (830-mile) border with Russia and has remained militarily non-aligned since the end of World War II to avoid provoking its eastern neighbour.
[...] "The whole of Finnish society must be vigilant towards Russian attempts to influence Finnish decision-making regarding the NATO question," Antti Pelttari, head of the Finnish security services Supo, said.
Releasing its updated terrorism threat report, Supo on Tuesday highlighted the danger of "widespread Russian interference and illegal surveillance," but kept the national terror threat at level two, or "elevated", on a scale of four.
[...] Finland has previously been subject to so-called hybrid tactics from Moscow, such as repeated airspace incursions, or the release in 2016 of 1,700 migrants across the Finnish border.
Earlier this month the transport authority Traficom said it had received "numerous" reports from aircraft of GPS interference in eastern Finland, but was unable to identify the source of the interference.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday March 31 2022, @11:15PM (6 children)
It has long been known that Russia will destroy what they can't take. They would be happy to take all of Ukraine. If they can't take it, they'll be happy to see Ukraine neutral. If they can't see Ukraine neutral, they'll be almost as happy to just destroy Ukraine. It all goes toward denying the use of Ukraine assets by NATO.
I'm a bit curious whether any Ukraine cities hosted US/UK/NATO naval ships in recent years. If Mariupol, for example, allowed a US Navy ship to dock for a few nights of liberty, that would create a lot of resentment in Russia. Or, to a lesser degree, allowing US flagged ships into port for commercial purposes. Remember that the USSR put all kinds of ships into foreign ports for nefarious purposes, from trawlers, to cruise ships, to all other sorts of vessels.
Again, though, Russia has been banging on the theme of preventing NATO camping on Russian borders since before the coup. And, we just ignore their complaints, warnings, and threats. We can't pretend that the invasion just came out of the blue. That isn't to say that the invasion is either right or wrong, but it is saying that we've been warned.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday April 01 2022, @01:14AM (5 children)
No need to go any further. That's why NATO has made so much headway and why Ukraine isn't going to give Russia anything it doesn't have to. Because Russia will destroy what it can't take - unless you keep it from doing that.
So what? At some point, you just have to realize that Putin can generate a lot of resentment trivially. He's got a great propaganda machine. There's no point to tiptoeing around the bear.
So what? Perhaps we should step that up to color revolutions [wikipedia.org] in Russia? Certainly would be a good time for it.
Again, where's the evidence that NATO's expansion made the invasion more likely? I say instead that it made it less likely. 2014 probably would have been a whole lot more bloody, if Putin didn't have to worry about NATO. And funny how Putin waited till the US's ignominious defeat in Afghanistan before acting.
So needless to say, I'm not buying the NATO narrative as the reason for the invasion.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 01 2022, @01:17AM (4 children)
Uh-huh. Look around, and smell the coffee.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Friday April 01 2022, @06:50AM
That it happened does not support your premise that it was NATO that made it more likely. Putin himself has said that he wants to restore the extent of Russia's control and influence to cold war days despite those former Soviet Union countries having chosen a different future. They weren't forced to join NATO - they simply chose the path of democracy rather than be subjugated again.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 01 2022, @11:10AM (2 children)
Runaway - I'd like to hear some logical arguments from you instead silly attempts at logic based on clearly incomplete knowledge of history.
I have lived in Finland, and have talked to enough people who have either fought in the Winter and Continuation wars and/or lived through Finlandization.
Your comments convince me beyond any semblace of a doubt that you have never spoken to anyone who fought in either of those wars nor anyone who lived through Finlandization.
Here's what happened, the simple enough for even Runaway to follow.
1: USSR decided the Finnish border was to close to st. Peterburg for their liking.
2: USSR tried offering Finland some land near Myrmansk in trade for territory much more valuable in the south. Like any independant country with a Spine Finland said Hell no, we will not trade valualble territory for useless territory that can't grow anythhing but forest, en not much of even that.
3: USSR attacked Finland, and just like in Ukraine, they proved USSR military was unable to deal with Finnish military on equal footing. Just look at the casualties.
4: Russia started targeting Finnish civilians, murdered them indiscriminatel to try and pressure the Finnish government to surrender as military they were failing. Approx 10 Russian military deaths for each Finnish soldier killed.
Now we go to present day Finland.
Since the end of Finlandization most Finns were convinced, like you, that you can avoid major issues if you slavishly obey the foreign policy from Moscow.
Since Russia proved that they do not stick to the deals they make, like their agreement, signed by PUTIN HIMSELF when Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons that Russia would never invade Ukraine ... Russia invaded and now both Finland an Sweden will be joining NATO ASAP. This is because PUTINS RUSSIA breaks every deal they make, and NATO does not fight along with non member states if invaded, only provide weapons.
So Finland and other non-NATO countries bordering Russia see their fears confirmed, and are 1000% sure they cannot trust Putins Russia not to invade even if they signed a contract. They all want Nato to fight with them, not just provide weapons.
The inevitable result will be a Russian Nato border from Norway, via Finland down to the Black sea, probably with Ukraine included.
I would very much appreciate you educating yourself about an issue before you spout FUD on the matter.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday April 01 2022, @02:19PM (1 child)
You are correct, I've never talked to any soldiers or former soldiers from Finland who kicked Russian ass. Somehow, my travels never took be to your part of the world. The nearest I ever got to Finland, was Copenhagen (or Kobenhavn) for a couple days of liberty.
Your points are maybe valid, but there are differences. How long has Finland been a neutral country? Compare that to Ukraine. If Ukraine had almost a century of dedication to neutrality, then Russia's attitude might be different, do you think?
Also, Finland doesn't hold possession of Russia's only warm water naval port, which would have been handed over for NATO use, right on Russia's door step. Drawing parallels between Finland and Ukraine only goes so far.
As for Finland joining NATO, if you're going to make that leap, you had best do it quickly. Dithering for years will invite Russia to step up it's interference. Make the decision within a couple months, send the diplomats to make it happen, and join within six months. A year is too long to dither over it. You can see how that worked in Ukraine.
It is also worth noting that we don't see a lot of Russian expansion. In Ukraine, we see Russia trying to keep what they consider theirs. Right or wrong, Russia sees Crimea as theirs. They took it back, and now they taken back the water supply that makes Crimea a viable base of operations. Go ahead, make the point again that Russia ceded Crimea - but you've not convinced the Russians. They've taken back Crimea, and the water supply that the Soviet built to supply Crimea. Denying them that control isn't up for debate. NATO isn't going to war over Ukraine, and Ukraine isn't going to take all of that back on their own.
I'll remind you that since the first man picked up the first stick and sharpened it, world affairs have not been determined by right and wrong. Being a Finn, and knowing your history, you know that might makes right. That's the way it always has been.
Again, if you're going to join NATO, do it quickly. Fortune favors the bold, and crushes the undecided.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Friday April 01 2022, @05:20PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad [wikipedia.org]
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"