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posted by hubie on Wednesday November 16 2022, @08:20PM   Printer-friendly
from the let's-sort-this-all-out dept.

Poland Missile: False Alarm

Ukraine war: Russia denies responsibility for Poland blast

US President Joe Biden has said it is "unlikely" that a missile that killed two people in Poland on Tuesday was fired from Russia.

Russia has denied it was to blame for the missile that landed in Przewodow, on the Ukrainian border.

Poland said it was Russian-made, but US officials said initial findings indicated it was fired by Ukrainian air defences.

More than 90 Russian missiles were fired at Ukraine on Tuesday, Kyiv said.

Although the military said 77 were shot down, some of the missiles hit Lviv, not far from Ukraine's western border with Poland.

During the Russian attacks, two Polish workers were killed in a blast at a farm building in Przewodow, 6km (4 miles) from the border.

 
Earlier reported story:

Br(e)aking: Russian missiles strike Poland, kill two

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia pounded Ukraine's energy facilities Tuesday with its biggest barrage of missiles yet, striking targets across the country and causing widespread blackouts, and a U.S. official said missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, where two people were killed.

A defiant Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy shook his fist and declared: "We will survive everything."

Polish government spokesman Piotr Mueller did not immediately confirm the information from a senior U.S. intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the situation. But Mueller said top leaders were holding an emergency meeting due to a "crisis situation."

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Neighboring Moldova was also affected. It reported massive power outages after the strikes knocked out a key power line that supplies the small nation, an official said.

I bet the reaction will be "Mmrrr-hhhhh... not enough/too soon for Article 5".


[Title updated to reflect new information. Content NOT changed as it is quoting what was said at the time. It is the middle of the night for me and I will update the content tomorrow. 17-04:12 Nov 2022 - JR]

Original Submission #1Original Submission #2

 
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  • (Score: 3, Redundant) by looorg on Wednesday November 16 2022, @09:17PM (18 children)

    by looorg (578) on Wednesday November 16 2022, @09:17PM (#1280094)

    The story has been changing all day long. First it was Russia attacking Poland, by accident we assume since they are not suicidal and want to kick off WWIII. Russia denies responsibility for this attack. Later during the afternoon it somehow became it was Ukraine that did it, with some old stock or conquered Russian (built) missile or air-defense piece. Ukraine denies responsibility for this, or that it even happened. Claiming that no matter what happened or how it happened the blame is on Russia. So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland and killed a couple of farmers. Clearly it didn't have a good navigation system whoever made it or fired it. Waiting for it now to develop into that it was some high-tech air-defense piece someone in western Europe gave/lent to the Ukraine but there was some translation error in the manual or just bad training that is to blame. So the west by accident attacked itself by proxy. Nothing to see here. It's war after all.

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  • (Score: 4, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 16 2022, @09:54PM (3 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 16 2022, @09:54PM (#1280098)

    In my mind, the most likely scenario is that: whatever "side" fired it, something in the heat of battle caused it to end up away from its intended target. Whether that target was an incoming Russian missile, a Ukrainian power station, or whatever. Any number of things can send a missile off course: electronic interference, physical damage/redirection by anti-missile explosions and similar, under-trained or un-disciplined troops firing the weapon carelessly, defective guidance system of a "liberated" weapon, etc. etc.

    --
    🌻🌻 [google.com]
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by RS3 on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:39PM (2 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:39PM (#1280113)

      All of the above, and also the scenario could happen where it's an anti-missile (defense) missile and the two collide over and fall on populated areas.

      My hunch is this case was a defense missile that didn't find a target and just ended up somewhere that it killed 2 people. Maybe those kinds of missiles should self-destruct if they run out of fuel, or are otherwise disabled, but still up high?

      All I know is it wouldn't have happened if Putin would mind his own business and stay within his own borders.

      • (Score: 2) by Mr Big in the Pants on Thursday November 17 2022, @05:01AM (1 child)

        by Mr Big in the Pants (4956) on Thursday November 17 2022, @05:01AM (#1280161)

        "Maybe those kinds of missiles should self-destruct if they run out of fuel, or are otherwise disabled, but still up high?"

        They do....
        Why do you think Ukraine wants to see the proof?

        Timeline I have seen so far:
        Poland: It is russian missile.
        US: Hey Poland, let's talk
        Poland: It was Ukrainian missile

        I am no conspiracy theorist, but the evidence needs to be presented either way.

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday November 18 2022, @01:01AM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Friday November 18 2022, @01:01AM (#1280279)

          Oh, but hey, we have the highest confidence in the Polish investigation, they're doing a great job. 👍

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:27PM (3 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:27PM (#1280110) Journal

    The story has been changing all day long.

    The fog of war.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:37PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:37PM (#1280112)

      The lies of war!

    • (Score: 2) by SomeRandomGeek on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:56PM (1 child)

      by SomeRandomGeek (856) on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:56PM (#1280115)

      If they were so inclined, the Polish government could provide the world with detailed photographic evidence of the incident. I'm sure there would be enough evidence to identify the model of missile, and there are probably even some serial numbers to be found. And if we knew what kind of missile it was, we would probably know whether it was being used for air defense or ground attack. I say probably because Russia has been observed using their SA-300 surface to air missiles for ground attack recently.

      • (Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:10PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:10PM (#1280121) Journal

        I read an article earlier today that said it was probably an old Russian air defense missile. It sorta leaned toward the same kind of Buc missile that took down the airliner a few years ago. It went on to tell how a lot of weapons, especially Russian weapons, have been "repurposed" since the war started.

        Of course that article wasn't authoritative, it may be just as much BS as all the articles we're still reading.

  • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:45PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @10:45PM (#1280114)

    It's war after all.

    Here it's information warfare. Note the Headline still states: "Russian Missiles Strike Poland..." Yellow "journalism" still thrives

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:24PM (1 child)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:24PM (#1280122) Journal

      Would changing it to "Alleged Russian-made" make you feel better?

      https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/world/europe/poland-ukraine-russia-nato.html [nytimes.com]

      Poland said early Wednesday that an explosion that killed two people at a grain-processing plant near the Ukrainian border had “most likely” been caused by a Russian-made missile, raising the prospect that the NATO alliance would be drawn more directly into the war in Ukraine.

      [...] The Polish Foreign Ministry said in a statement that the missile that landed the day before had been Russian-made, but President Andrzej Duda was not as definitive, telling reporters, “It was most likely a Russian-made missile, but this is all still under investigation at the moment.”

      He added, “We do not have any conclusive evidence at the moment as to who launched this missile.” Both the Ukrainian and Russian armies employ Soviet-era armaments.

      I haven't followed the story since I subbed my half, so feel free to add something newer.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:48PM (#1280125)

        Please, stop the charade. The headline says "Russian missile...", not Russian made missile. The intention is more than obvious.

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @04:09AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @04:09AM (#1280153)

      Here it's information warfare.

      Troll

      ... via moderation. We're up to our ears in bullshit

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @09:48PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @09:48PM (#1280254)

        Another downmod for telling the truth.

        Very disappointing to see the war mongers prevail again...

  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:06PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 16 2022, @11:06PM (#1280120) Journal

    some high-tech air-defense piece someone in western Europe gave/lent to the Ukraine but there was some translation error in the manual or just bad training that is to blame.

    There's a great deal of sick, twisted humor hiding in that simple statement. In years to come, Ukraine could be the butt of a million jokes about bombing your benefactors, or almost-allies. Maybe even allies, eventually. The stupid jokes about buying French guns, only surrendered once, come to mind here.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @05:55AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 17 2022, @05:55AM (#1280165)

    Remember that media in Poland are in fact a first-class communist-grade propaganda since at least 2015, for example I totally stopped turning the tv on the news when they made it politically dependent. So the first day after the "attack" they simultaneously spoke that nothing is confirmed and displayed a big text "RUSSIAN ATTACK ON POLAND" at the bottom. Now they are distracting people from the thing by using political opposition as always.
    Ukraine can play it well, very well, and gain more supporters in the west. Now they start to go about it very badly. As in Poland there is a general conspiracy theory that Ukrainian intelligence holds some compromising info about Polish politicians, they may also play it very badly and Polish media can lie. Something like this accident when Ukrainian rocket fell on the city because Ukraine's army with ammunition shortages literally shot whatever they had, including soviet rockets not inspected for decades - while it was known from the beginning that it was Ukraine Army's accident, our media still lied that the rocket was Russian and it somehow teleported on crash site.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 17 2022, @01:53PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 17 2022, @01:53PM (#1280195) Journal

      As in Poland there is a general conspiracy theory that Ukrainian intelligence holds some compromising info about Polish politicians, they may also play it very badly and Polish media can lie.

      Sure those dastardly Ukrainians do. So why doesn't the even better Russian intelligence hold even more of that compromising information than Ukraine? I think it should be obvious here that Poland remembers the Soviets: things like forty years of oppression and Katyn Forest. They won't let a second Soviet Union take them without a fight.

  • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Thursday November 17 2022, @09:03AM (1 child)

    by isostatic (365) on Thursday November 17 2022, @09:03AM (#1280176) Journal

    So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland

    Plot twist, it was MH370

    • (Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday November 17 2022, @11:53AM

      by looorg (578) on Thursday November 17 2022, @11:53AM (#1280183)

      So I guess all we know so far is that a possible Russian made missile appeared out of nowhere and struck a village in Poland

      Plot twist, it was MH370

      ... in the Twilight Zone.