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Arthur T Knackerbracket has processed the following story:
Electric vehicles may become a new front in America's tech war with China after a US senator called for Washington DC to block Chinese-made EVs to protect domestic industries and national security.
Sherrod Brown, senator for Ohio and chair of the Senate Banking Committee, penned a letter to President Biden, claiming "there are currently no Chinese EVs for sale in the United States, and we must keep it that way."
He warned that "Chinese EVs, highly subsidized by the Chinese government, could decimate our domestic automakers, harm American workers, and give China access to sensitive personal data," insisting the US government must ban Chinese-made EVs as soon as possible, calling it "a matter of economic and national security."
The move comes as the dispute between the two economic superpowers over technology rumbles on, with the US last week sanctioning four more Chinese companies, claiming they were involved with providing chips for accelerating AI to China's military and intelligence users.
Among those added to the Entity List maintained by the US Department of Commerce was Sitonholy (Tianjin) Co, understood to be one of the largest distribution channels for Nvidia's datacenter products in China, thus cutting off supplies of Nvidia GPUs to many Chinese companies.
[...] The number of Chinese cars purchased by US customers is understood to be very low as these are subject to an extra 25 percent tariff on top of the regular 2.5 percent import duty that DC applies to imported vehicles.
However, Senator Brown notes in his letter that BYD already sells an electric hatchback named the "Seagull" for the equivalent of less than $10,000. This compares with the $28,140 that has been reported as the starting price of the current cheapest electric car available in the US, the 2024 Nissan LEAF S.
There is also a national security twist as Senator Brown claims that data collected by the sensors and cameras in Chinese EVs could pose a threat. "China does not allow American-made electric vehicles near their official buildings. To allow their vehicles freedom to travel throughout the United States would be foolish and highly dangerous," he stated.
Senator Brown also claims in his letter that nearly 20 percent of all electric vehicles sold in Europe during 2023 were made in China, citing this as a cautionary example.
The European Commission last year announced an investigation into subsidies in the Chinese EV industry, but there are said to be misgivings in Germany and elsewhere that a ban on Chinese EVs could backfire, with Beijing retaliating by locking Western carmakers out of the lucrative China market entirely.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bloodnok on Wednesday April 17, @07:04PM (4 children)
I don't know if Chinese manufacturers are subsidised by their government but I suspect they don't need to be. Chinese vehicles are manufactured using Chinese labour in well-designed factories, that are themselves built by well-educated and trained Chinese engineers and labour. Chinese labour is cheap. Chinese education is cheap and good. And Chinese manufacturing is cheap even when building at high quality levels.
Couple that with innovative vehicle design that largely ignores western legacy vehicle production methods, and there is no reason at all that they shouldn't undercut western car-makers while building a good product. And if the reviews I've seen of recent BYD vehicles are to be believed (along with their incredible success in Australia), they are making good products.
If the US bans Chinese vehicles it will simply delay the inevitable. It will reduce the pressure on the legacy car makers for a few years, they will step back from difficult and maybe risky innovation, and US car manufacturing will suddenly find itself yet another 5 years behind. Tesla should have been a lesson to the US car-makers, but they still seem to think that business as usual will carry the day.
If you want to help the domestic market and domestic manufacturing you need to provide incentives for domestic manufacturing to embrace the future and do better, rather than protecting them so that they don't need to. It's not like the skills, talent and initiative are not available, but I see no evidence, outside of Tesla and a few small niche companies, that they are valued. Rather than cutting back on EV development you need to double down. Rather than electrifying Hummers and Mustangs, how about building a new electric Dodge Neon or Dart, and doing it in a brand new chassis without all of the legacy clutter that goes with ICE. For an example, take a look at the new Renault 5, or the MG4.
I find it incredibly depressing how expensive current EVs are. Given the inherent simplicity of an EV compared with ICE vehicles they should be way cheaper and faster to build. Yes, you need expensive batteries, but everything else is way simpler. BYD and other Chinese manufacturers are showing how it's possible to make good and cheap.
You may not be able to build cheaper than the Chinese, but you can certainly build cheaper and smarter than Hummers for Deity's sake.
[Oh, and can we make that "infotainment" crap an optional extra? I'd pay more not to have it.]
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The Major
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday April 17, @08:39PM (3 children)
>Chinese manufacturing is cheap even when building at high quality levels.
Yes, but... the margins are nowhere near as dramatic as when they are allowed to cut corners.
In the yacht market, you can have a yacht built in the EU for €500K. You can get a similarly spec'ed yacht built in China for €100K, but if you hold the Chinese builders up to EU standards that price climbs to more like €400K.
The TCO is something else, that EU built yacht might cost €25K / yr to operate and maintain, and the €400K Chinese yacht much the same. The €100K Chinese yacht may start out similarly, but after a short time the average cost of
operation and maintenance will climb rather dramatically when you need to refinish the decks, replace the rusting fittings, service the more quickly failing engine components - outright replace failed engines, etc. Ten years in, if you're trying to keep the €100K Chinese yacht maintained to anything approaching the standard of the more expensive versions, you'll be better off to pay €600K (over time) for upgrades and improvements to get your annual cost of operation and maintenance back down near that €25K / yr level. Or just off the cheap junk and buy something better when you can afford it.
On a completely different level, I bought a Harbor Frieght (Chinese made, if you don't already know) trailer kit - self assembly - for something like $150 in 2008, it looked a lot like this: https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/trailers-towing/trailers/1195-lb-capacity-48-58-in-x-96-14-in-heavy-duty-folding-trailer-62666.html [harborfreight.com] I hope for the more than tripling in price they have improved them a bit. I spent nearly $100 on the wood for decking, but within a year the paint had oxidized and was peeling off the steel - it was a constant grind, spray and pray operation to keep the frame from rusting through. Finally, I sold it off probably 5 years later to someone who just needed a cheap trailer quick - I think I got about $150 for it, but I had put at least that into the decking, spray paint and sandpaper over five years, not to mention the labor... I doubt that trailer lasted another 3 years beyond that. The day I assembled it, it looked just as good as trailers selling from big-box retail stores for $500 and more. I know those "big box" trailers have better paint because if they didn't they'd be oxidizing and peeling where they store them in the parking lot before they ever have a chance to be sold.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday April 18, @10:11AM (2 children)
The grandparent apparently is of the opinion that we don't need the corners that are being cut.
Sounds like you would be better served to solve the problem that increases the cost of a good by a factor of 4 rather than complain that someone else doesn't normally have to deal with the problem. After all, all the stuff you would want in a safe, effective yacht is already in those "similar" specs, right?
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday April 18, @11:21AM (1 child)
>Sounds like you would be better served to solve the problem that increases the cost of a good by a factor of 4
Sure. Let's start with the exhaust - seawater mixing elbows. Thick stainless steel does cost more than cast iron, but if you pay anything for the replacement labor the stainless option is cheaper in the long run.
So, just make a cheaper mixing elbow that lasts as long as (or, preferably longer than) the stainless steel option.
Similar problems are waiting for you to fix on the hull structure and finish, port windows and other fittings, etc.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Disagree) by khallow on Thursday April 18, @02:19PM