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When was the last time you compiled an operating system kernel?
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When was the last time you compiled an operating system kernel?
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(1)
(1)
You will be attacked by a beast who has the body of a wolf, the tail of
a lion, and the face of Donald Duck.
(Score: 2) by Snospar on Monday July 20, @08:06AM (3 children)
I used to do this with every new distro install, mainly because way back then it was a necessity to (a) ensure all your hardware was supported and (b) to keep the system lean because resources were at a premium. Over time, thankfully, more and more hardware was included in the kernel (either built-in or as a module) and resources became abundant so wasting a little disk on things you'd never use wasn't a problem. The convenience of accepting the default kernel provided by the distro has one downside, I no longer keep track of what's changing in the kernel and which options I really should be using to optimise my personal setup.
I think I've just found my next little project!
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(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 23, @02:56AM
Actually billions of kernel recompiles would be a waste of resources too, especially if the default kernel would work fine. More so if they're recompiling not just the kernel but almost everything else.
FWIW someone has made a utility to help disable unused modules for security reasons: https://github.com/jnuyens/modulejail/tree/master [github.com]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday July 23, @11:05PM
Back in the day, I thought the kernel was stable in a given release of Ubuntu (before 12 or so, I still believe it was...)
While working on patches to the Intel OpenGL support found in the Kernel that came with 14.04.2, I upgraded to 14.04.3 - and the bastards upgraded the kernel on me with it... so much for stability of hardware drivers.
🌻🌻🌻🌻✌️ [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Unixnut on Wednesday July 29, @06:35PM
For me it depends for what use really. I last compiled a kernel for a server/workstation operating system in the late 00's when I was running Gentoo. Not quite "last century" but we are talking over a decade ago. It was worth compiling the kernel (and most of the userland) back then because doing things like targeting i686 instead of i386, setting compiler flags and enabling the extra features of your processor (e.g. "3dnow", "sse", etc...) actually would lead to a noticeable improvement, especially for things like mp3/video encoding and decoding. In such a case going through the hassle of compiling from source every 6-12 months was worth it for the speed up in between rebuilds.
However with the move to 64bit everything just targets that now, and machines have so many cores and are so powerful that while compiling from scratch is much faster now, the benefits of doing so are negligible. For me the drawbacks of debugging failed compiles, dealing with library dependencies, issues or just waiting around for a compile to finish is not worth the benefit, so I stopped doing it. I just run the standard kernel, it loads the modules it needs, and the userland comes pre-packaged as well for easy updates.
However if we include embedded Linux (e.g. for Raspberry pi), then I last compiled a kernel and userspace a couple of months ago (using Gentoo, so it still lives in in my world in a small way) precisely to keep the system lean, because the raspberry pi is still relatively resource constrained (especially the earlier ones which I use).
(Score: 4, Touché) by jb on Monday July 20, @08:14AM (3 children)
Does relinked count as "compiled" here?
On OpenBSD, for example, the kernel is relinked (with a new random address space layout) whenever the system is booted; and again whenever the kernel is patched.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 20, @08:51AM (1 child)
At first I was going to say "no" because that isn't actually handled by the compiler or any part of GCC. Instead, it is handled by the linker ld, which is a part of binutils. At first that seemed sane because I don't think anyone would consider the library randomizer (ranlib) or archiver (ar) to be a part of the compilation process. But as I thought of it, the assembler (GAS, which is also a part of binutils) would probably be considered part of the compilation process. Every time you compile something you need to also assemble it regardless of your ultimate goal. Because of that, I'm now leaning towards a "yes" answer. However, I can't shake the feeling that answer is wrong too. It really depends on how strict my view at the time is and how much I metaphorically squint my eyes.
(Score: 2) by jb on Tuesday July 21, @08:31AM
Yes it is indeed all done with ld(1), although of course it's the ld from llvm (not the ld from gcc, which was abandoned several releases ago).
I also lean towards a "no" answer, but it seemed like an interesting question to ask anyway.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday July 20, @08:35PM
I would file that under the "whenever my distro does it for me" line.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Bentonite on Monday July 20, @11:21AM
Whenever I feel like updating GNU Linux-libre - a custom .config is the only way you can get it compiled right (i.e. certainly without rust, as; `rm -r rust`).
It's odd that it's redundantly specific to kernel's for OS's, considering that 99% of kernel's are part of, or for OS's.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday July 20, @06:13PM (1 child)
I used to do Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org] builds regularly, and even contributed a few bits of info to it, and compiling a kernel is something I just got used to doing as part of the process. And I also ran Gentoo for a while, where that experience definitely came in handy.
These days I don't because the value to pain-in-the-tuchas ratio isn't high enough, but if I get more time to play around with tech stuff again I'll get back to it.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday July 23, @11:07PM
I did Gentoo in the 2005-ish timeframe because it was the only thing going that would get me access to 4GB+ of RAM in a single application.
It took roughly 24 hours to install (compile) Gentoo on a system, I think I did that twice at first, then once about a year later, then the MB died of terminal fluff smothering (it lived in an "office" that also housed an electric clothes dryer) and in my next box I just installed Ubuntu, and moved it out of the laundry room.
🌻🌻🌻🌻✌️ [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Monday July 20, @08:05PM
I guess an RTOS like zephyr would count. Its already larger than linux was when I started with linux. Doesn't have systemd yet, the entryists haven't arrived. Give them time...
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday July 20, @08:33PM
Pretty sure I've compiled a kernel or two, but "whenever my distro does it for me" is a more likely scenario. By the time I've get down to the "you need to compile the kernel with support for X" part of things, I probably don't need it that bad.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday July 20, @10:29PM (1 child)
Semi-serious question, where does DKMS fit in?
https://github.com/dkms-project/dkms [github.com]
https://wiki.debian.org/DkmsPackaging [debian.org]
I would guess "when my OS does it for me" because that's kinda what DKMS does. When you get a new kernel it compiles and installs the 3rd party driver using the new headers. Pretty cool and by the time I used it, it was reliable. You don't have to compile your own kernel, well, not entirely, you'll just download the kernel version headers and compile whatever dkms part you want, like a driver or I suppose in theory, anything that can work in a loadable kernel module (a filesystem maybe)
For reasons that can't be blamed on the system, I've had mixed results in the past (like years ago) there was an on-board SBC ethernet driver (not a RasPI it was some weird thing) that worked best with DKMS on older kernels because the kernel generic driver was a little too generic, then the kernel upgraded its own semi-compatible driver in newer kernel versions to be better than the previously better DKMS version, such that the DKMS peeps gave up so continuing to use the DKMS version of the driver was worse than using the improved kernel driver.
Maybe a third of DKMS modules were licensing problems. ZFS/OpenZFS is CDDL license which was pretty much invented to prevent inclusion in GPL linux, which it does very successfully. But there is a DKMS module for endusers who want to use ZFS anyway. You can't distribute a GPL thing thats tainted with CDDL by the intention and design of the CDDL authors.
Maybe a third of DKMS modules are really obscure. I remember using this for OpenAFS. There were probably a couple, maybe even ten of us using AFS. AFS was indeed pretty cool and I kind of miss it. How can I explain AFS to people who never used it... like a unified global FTP site (ipv4 only) crossed with NFS, sort of, all kerberos'd and ACL'd to heck and back to make it semi-secure ish. Like imagine if NFS had working ACLs and security and authentication and worked globally almost like automounter NFS except better. I'm not sure there's anything like it today; if there was I'd probably use it.
The last third is extremely narrow and specific devices like a really nice driver for just one specific Realtek ethernet driver, hyper narrow focus. Kind of cool to have something that detailed and custom.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 22, @04:51AM
I don't think that counts. DKMS doesn't compile a kernel and it doesn't have to compile the module either. All it has to do is "build" one. What that means can fall well short of recompilation of the module if you make it correctly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 22, @05:53AM
February ... there was a thing in OpenBSD where MacBooks took about 3 hours to boot unless you edited a line in acpi.c
The problem lasted a couple of years so just recompile the kernel after the first time and keep your /usr/src in sync and deal with it.
The fix was committed upstream in time for OpenBSD 7.9-BETA. After that just a regular syspatch -s would get a system that booted in less time than it takes to watch a LOTR film.
Honestly just glad that shit's over.
(Score: 3, Informative) by gnuman on Wednesday July 22, @02:10PM (2 children)
Last time I compiled the kernel was when it was still possible to go through all the parameters and decide if you wanted to turn them on or off. That was maybe around 2005 timeframe, +- a year or two?
Seriously, these days, if you with to compile the kernel with the features that you need but no features that you do not need, it would take hours to try to figure out what exactly is important or not. The amount of config options possible these days is impressive, to say the least. And reading them all to tailor to your system is *dedication*
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 23, @10:47PM
It’s not quite that bad. Most kconfigs are for hardware that you don’t have and never will. Start off with a localmodconfig. That will drastically reduce the number of kconfigs you will need to check. You’ll just need to do a quick skim for any missing devices from the list. After that, you can completely ignore the hardware sections that are unset. What was once tens of thousands of kconfigs is now reduced by two orders of magnitude. Based on your high level decisions, the dependency tree could easily reduce it even more.
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday July 23, @11:10PM
> if you with to compile the kernel with the features that you need but no features that you do not need, it would take hours to try to figure out what exactly is important or not.
For a fun ride: ask an LLM to evaluate the options for you... Not choose them all for you, but just take a general description of what you want, then make a table of the available options and their top recommendations for how to set them based on your initial criteria specifications. Make sure to remind it to check for option-setting compatibility, etc.
🌻🌻🌻🌻✌️ [google.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by weeds on Thursday July 23, @05:45PM (2 children)
Reading this poll triggered a wave of nostalgia. Back in the 1980s, we ran an image editing system on a Sun-4 SPARC board inside our own custom rack.
My memory is a little foggy on the exact dates, but whenever we added a new device—like a 9-track tape drive or a massive 300MB disk drive—plug-and-play didn't exist. I had to manually edit /usr/sys/sys/conf.c to register the major numbers and driver entry points directly into the cdevsw (character) and bdevsw (block) device switch tables, tweak the GENERIC config file, and recompile a monolithic kernel.So my answer to the poll is firmly "Last century." I haven't had to hardcode a device switch table into a Unix kernel in about 35 years!
Get money out of politics! [mayday.us]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Thursday July 23, @11:12PM (1 child)
Is it really an OS if you're recompiling it to match the hardware?
That's what we've called "bare metal" for the last 20 years.
🌻🌻🌻🌻✌️ [google.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 24, @07:08AM
Now I'm really curious what you think an operating system is, how it works, and what it does.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 25, @12:19AM (1 child)
So I actually did compile the kernel this morning. It's the latest release 7.1.5 though, not a nightly.
(Score: 2) by ese002 on Wednesday August 05, @04:10AM
Gentoo does not automatically compile the kernel.
I also run gentoo. But it has been almost two years since I compiled a kernel. I have updated source as of August 1st but until I have time and motivation, it remains in source form only.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 26, @02:26PM (12 children)
janrinok does not want people seeing that his enforcement is arbitrary and abusive, must censor anyone pointing this out
to be fair he usually does OK, but then again who can really know when there is no transparency?
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by janrinok on Sunday July 26, @04:55PM (11 children)
Comments that are completely off-topic, contribute nothing to the discussion, and are pointless in their content are Spam. It is explained in the rules:
Versions of these definitions have been in the site rules since 2015.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday July 27, @05:23AM (8 children)
If you refuse to follow the site rules and repeatedly disrupt journals and polls then you will be treated accordingly.
The correct procedure for you to follow is a formal complaint.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday July 27, @01:39PM (5 children)
When you stop abusing others in journals and polls then you will not be flagged. When you stop trying to prevent others from expressing their views - no matter what those political views are - then you will not be flagged. When you stop disrupting journals with your repetitious complaints then your comments will not be flagged.
You have been on your 'crusade' now for a long time. What has changed? What have you achieved? Nothing.
If you want to see changes then you have been told how to go about it. Until then you are wasting your time and spoiling others' discussions.
I am entirely responsible to both the community and the board for my actions. If only you had the same attitude.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday July 27, @04:49PM (3 children)
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05, @07:10PM
The board is dead, inactive, and non-functional. janrinok is keeping them in his very large chest freezer, only to provide a rubber stamp to his progrom of flagging and censorship. In conclusion, not a real board, legally, or formally, or even decoratively.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10, @06:57PM
Sorry I can not see the comment you replied to. Should the board be worried?
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 05, @01:53AM
I hereby formally refuse to abide by janrinok's implementation of the alleged "site rules"! I demand a tribunal! All censorship must cease immediately, Or I will fart in your general direction, and spam you again.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08, @08:19PM
Rules, eh? So why are not all the janrinok complaints, which are off topic and contribute nothing to the discussion, not flagged and spindled, and banned? Huh? Why?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27, @11:21PM
I write realtime, embedded systems. I compile custom kernels of various OSes almost everyday.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by srobert on Wednesday July 29, @03:03PM
Whenever my rolling release distro (Void) shows a change to the kernel version I'm using, I recompile it. I had some glitch in my laptop that caused it to freeze up when the kernel had support for a particular feature I didn't need. So I rewrote the configuration, eliminating lots of other unneeded features and modules I didn't use. That was years ago. I have been compiling my own kernels ever since. I guess I do it about once a month on average.
(Score: 2) by istartedi on Saturday August 01, @09:54PM
Maybe not last century but it feels like it. These days, free OS's generally "just work" well enough, and I was never a fan of tweaking the OS that much. The general lack of "you've got to know how to recompile your kernel" lives with watching Windows defrag for me. It's progress not having to do it; but it's still there and that's a good thing.
Appended to the end of comments you post. Max: 120 chars.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 04, @02:03AM
Poll sucks. From page stories are blah. Journals are heavily redacted. Who from SN is in the Epstein files?
(Score: 2) by ese002 on Wednesday August 05, @04:15AM (2 children)
I'm coming up on two years. While I probably should bring my kernel up to date and clear some of the annoying messages I get when I compile a new gentoo package, it isn't a priority. I haven't added any new hardware in several years so there hasn't been any need to update driver support.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 07, @11:06AM (1 child)
I hate Runaway, too. I hate him sooo much. First, he sexually harrassed me, then he called me a Darkie. He implied that I ate beans a lot. Or Okra and sweetbreads and watermelon. And he has the gall to thing he can have an opinion on who is an American Citizen? He does not qualify to be a citizen himself, what with all the criming. I hate him in the morning, hate him nooning, hate him at suppertime. Fucking redneck fascist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 14, @07:34PM
I understand that Runway is now an AI tool? Run by Gab.ai? Coincidence? New levels of bad faith argument, the internet is broken, and Eternal September. I thot I saw a Basilik! I did! I did see Roko's Basilisk!
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 06, @09:09PM (3 children)
And, he's a doodoo-head, a regular neighbor to the pedophile Dugger, admirer of Tulsi Gabbard, and her brother. Defender of a Pedophile Precedent, and a whole party of pedo enablers. How dumb does he have to be, to fall for all this? Well, I hate him, and hold him responsible.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 08, @11:08AM (2 children)
I hate Runaway with a fox,
Do not like him with Monkey Pox
But he is quite fun to dox,
Because he has such a small cox.
But I would be OK, with him in a box.
I do not like Runaway1956,
I rather not pick up sticks,
He ran wild as a child,
And has not improved for quite a whild.
His leanings are quite fascist,
And he is at least a MAGAist.
Socialism he does not want,
So that Health Care he cannot get.
Too bad, dead Runaway, we knew you too briefly,
For us to mourn your earthly exingency.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 10, @04:54AM
I hate Runaway, too, with a white hot hate I reserve for Southern white trash racists. He is so ignorant as to engender some sympathy, but he persists in it with such deliberate malice. Therefore, I hate him, and all decent folk do as well.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 11, @09:15PM
Do not hate the Runaway! It is like trying to bend the spoon with your mind, that is impossible. Only try to remember the truth, that there is no Runaway! Yes, he is vile, he is a structural racist, an unconscious misogynist, and a Fascist sucking MAGA, but you should hate the sin, not the sinner. Underneath the racism, cruelty, animal abuse, sexual harassment, and death threats there beats the heart of a real
Arkansaian, the common clay of the Old South, you know, a moron.
(Score: 2) by Snotnose on Sunday August 09, @01:07PM
Several years ago I got a new laptop and made it dual boot while on a plane flying somewhere. Guy behind me asked "what are you doing?" "Configuring my kernel" "oooh, hardcore".
I remember the battery on my brand new laptop lasted about an hour when I compiled that sucker.
Being the dumbest idiot in the land and president of the US should be 2 different people.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Wednesday August 12, @11:44PM
I used to work as a Sys. Admin decades ago... we'd be compiling kernels weekly... there's no such thing as Sys Admins anymore, at least not in my neck of the woods.