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Barrabas (22)
Am I the bad guy here?
They say that Al Capone couldn't understand why the press hated him. He thought of himself as the "good guy", who had done so much for Chicago that the city should be grateful.
I understand how he must have felt.
To date I've tried to be positive, upbeat, and helpful during the transition - turning over accounts and passwords, answering questions, providing help where needed. I initially gave Michael passwords for everything about the project, including the registrar.
SoylentNews was pushing probably 7 million pageviews a month. Some acceptable [to the community] advertizing and it could have net $10,000/month. Despite this, Michael doesn't want to reimburse me $2,000 for startup costs.
Michael's behaviour is so *rotten* that I just cannot fathom it. I'm also baffled as to why the staff is being mean. Because of this I've taken back some of the account access: the registrar and my three linode accounts. I'm tired of being shat upon, and I need to look after my own interests.
Since the change in ownership, the site worth has dropped from $2700 to $470, the stark reality of the "palace revolt".
The truth is, no one wants to see dirty laundry. I crafted my resignation in a politically neutral manner because I was taught that it's not appropriate to say bad things in public. Michael's hit piece came as a complete shock.
This whole thing started because one person didn't like someone else's choice of OS, and couldn't let it go and couldn't put it off, even for 2 weeks. I've read about these types of religious wars, choice of editor being another one, but I never thought that people would go to these sorts of extremes. I wonder if "can't let it go" will be a recurring theme.
Throughout the transition, only a *single* staff member showed integrity, and only two showed any sense of loyalty.
I did my best to accommodate people, to give them important positions with interesting tasks, encouraging them to experiment and be creative, and most of all to grow. As an example, Michael originally declined being head of dev. He wanted the position, but felt that his people skills were not up to the task (he said this in so many words). After much thought and deliberation I came up with a plan to pair him with Mattie, a professional manager, to work on his management skills and help him grow into the position. I made special arrangements to give Michael the best seat in the house because he deserved it.
It came as a complete surprise that none of the editors were happy (per Michael's piece). No one had complained, I had several conversations with the head of that section and sat in on their group meeting.
Overlords had specific authority to decide split consensus, they were told this when they were made overlords (per my script). At the time of the revolt, none of the overlords had complained or even asked about this. Mattie had full authority to resolve disputes between groups, it was stated in so many words in the E-mail. I don't know how Michael thought otherwise, especially in light of the E-mail record. Michael was an overlord and was specifically told all of this.
This sordid affair has left me soured on the entire community. Slashdot users think we're a bunch of spoiled crybabies, and 'ya know what? I agree. I'm not a member of this community, and now that I'm an outcast I see that I don't *want* to be a member.
I'm not a nerd, I'm a scientist. Go do your own thing, I wash my hands of you.
UPDATE
I've had several offers for the site - thank you. I'm contacting the first one and then I'm gone.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by drgibbon on Monday March 10 2014, @11:13AM
All rather fickle. That's a very fast switch from being all about the community to "I'll shutter the site on Friday and eat the loss"! Best of luck with your other endeavours though.
Certified Soylent Fresh!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by boltronics on Monday March 10 2014, @01:07PM
I'm sure John had it rough since things obviously didn't turn out as he wanted, but my reading of this post is that John was more concerned with making money than building a community. That's the only explanation for threatening that kind of action, as well as complaining of the site worth (and it's showing $2,817 now anyway, not that it matters).
As for the whole OS thing, that's obviously a tech decision that should be made by the people deploying and maintaining the site. As a systems administrator, I'd be pissed if a decision that I knew made no sense for the project was forced upon it - without my having been consulted - and I was left to deal with the consequences for months or years to come (while the decision maker gets to wash his/her hands of it all). I fully understand that reaction, and am quite astonished that John doesn't seem to get it - and has even attributed it to some kind of religious war. It seems to me that NCommander just wanted what was best for the project, and he was the one in the best position to make that particular call.
It's GNU/Linux dammit!
(Score: 4, Funny) by RobotMonster on Monday March 10 2014, @11:43AM
You've made me a very Sad Panda. :-(
(Score: 5, Insightful) by pacov on Monday March 10 2014, @12:32PM
Soylent News was created on a limited budget in a very short amount of time. If my understanding of the situation isn't too far off, you graciously ponied up a specific amount of money upfront for the "good" of all the people coming from /. and for the possible recuperation of that upfront money over some amount of time.
If I recall, Soylent News was incorporated (in some fashion) to protect the individuals building the new community. Since your initial personal investment was not in anyway guaranteed to be recuperated (who knew how many people would actually make Soylent News a frequented site), why are you knowingly placing a tight one week window to receive money back from the others that helped you with the site? Have the corporation sign a promissory note to you that will allow Soylent News a reasonable amount of time to get its feet under itself financially, and then pay you back.
One week to pay you back does appear to be very short. Try not to let hard feelings get in the way... take the high road in some fashion for at minimum all of the people that transferred over with you from the beginning. Martyrdom, financially speaking, doesn't sound like a good plan.
(Score: 4, Informative) by mattie_p on Monday March 10 2014, @12:50PM
I am going to be very factual only. So far as I know, SoylentNews has not been incorporated yet.
(Score: 5, Informative) by LaminatorX on Monday March 10 2014, @01:08PM
The lack of any concrete progress on setting up the not-for-profit was one of the things that led to John's ouster as project lead.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by tynin on Monday March 10 2014, @12:35PM
If I'm the bad guy, I can't be worse off by actually *being* bad.
I would dispute that. Since you are leaving, I as a lowly member of this community, would prefer if you didn't kick the table on your way out. Our house of cards have been building up nicely, and your actions here at the end do more damage to those that had nothing to do with this back fighting, then they do to those you feel wronged by. I implore you to reconsider this nuclear option.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by suxen on Monday March 10 2014, @01:18PM
http://pipedot.org/ [pipedot.org] is looking quite nice this time of year, all it is missing is you :)
by which I mean all of us.
(Score: 1) by suxen on Tuesday March 11 2014, @08:20AM
I really don't think off topic is fair here!!!
I am just glad the newsfeed is rolling again. Hitting refresh on SN has made me whole again in a way that I haven't been since slashdot 2 added autorefresh. Stopping the newsfeed to fix all attention on John being an arse well it made me start hitting refresh on |. a lot more.
Thanks to Mat for returning sanity to the situation though. I like pipedot, the interface is really slick and responsive, even the ma and pa shop feel to the editorial style is endearing, unfortunately they just don't have the numbers to be the de facto site for news and comments like SN.
(Score: 1) by suxen on Tuesday March 11 2014, @08:22AM
Oh yes and of course lets not forget, I have a 3 digit UID there.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bucc5062 on Monday March 10 2014, @01:04PM
Really John, you fell into this one, perhaps expecting people would take the default answer? As it is, for me the answer is yes to your question "Am I the bad guy here?".
You are a scientist. that means you have an ego, probably a big one for I've not met a scientist who does not think they are right and works hard to prove it. As another post mentioned, you started up the site, words glowing about community, people, new, change, but under all the words read I see a weakness in the foundation you tried to build...you. When the going was hard, you walked. I wont re-quote you (I did that before), but if you are scientist, you are more political then factual for you change your words to suit the moment, not the reality.
Calling yourself a scientist, then doing what you can to tear down your own experiment, even as it is working, smacks of poor work ethics. You bitch about Micheal, but from what I see, he has been open to share both sides, he has worked to keep this fledgling site running and growing, and making his words into actions, unlike yours.
I doubt you really care. People who walk away like this typically don't. You're the little kid back in school that would take his ball and walk away if he didn't get his way. Please, leave. I think it was fine for Michael to challenge the costs, it should have been fine for you to take the time to verify the changes and to truly keep this out of the news.
Pull the fucking plug, it wont stop this process, but it will seal the image you've created of a bad man.
The more things change, the more they look the same
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 10 2014, @02:08PM
As a member of the goddamn "audience", it's pretty hard to tell. I've been kinda following these broadsides but can't even figure out what the pertinent issues are.
I'm saddened by all this he said she said. I guess revolts tend to get bloody. I just wish it wouldn't have to be so...
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 10 2014, @03:23PM
Because now both of you are fired.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 10 2014, @03:49PM
Holding hostage a brand new community of thousands unless you are paid $2,000 within 7 days makes you a bad guy, absolutely. Vermin. You weren't being stiffed, merely questioned. You are a bad person.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday March 10 2014, @04:23PM
John, I'm genuinely sorry that things seemed to have deteriorated from your perspective. But I do not think that you are right in what you are doing.:
The first line of your expenses states "Start up costs are less than $1000". If it was agreed to recompense you for this, how can it now be $2000?
Any 'value' that the site has is not due to your initial investment, but rather to the community that support this site and those who have given many hours of their time to make it a success. You, on the other hand, do not appear to think of that as being of any value. To me, this whole project was about a community, one that didn't want to be tied to businesses or profit-making. I don't believe that the community has changed, but you appear to have.
If the parting was amicable, why now the ultimatum 'pay by Friday or I close it all down'? Seven days ago you were content to wait for NCommander to return to the US, today you are not.
I'm not taking part in a slanging match, but I would welcome a civil response without name-calling to simply explain what, from your point of view, has changed? I've read your journals and they do not explain the situation at all but seem intent on destroying the community that you once said meant so much to you.
Sorry it came to this, but you did ask the question...
(Score: 5, Insightful) by dcollins on Monday March 10 2014, @04:42PM
"If I'm the bad guy, I can't be worse off by actually *being* bad."
That's awful -- the kind of thing a sociopathic person would say.
Be a good guy and just turn the domains over, walk away, and get this toxic drama out of your life.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday March 10 2014, @07:52PM
When you knew you were going down, you used to just blast into the edges of all the continents owned by the player you least wanted to see win, so that he wouldn't get his army allocation, and would be left very weak to defend against other opponents.
As you can tell, I last played Risk when I was 10.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 10 2014, @04:52PM
So he got offers from community members and says he's taking the first one. Presumably that person will be kind hearted enough to turn it over to the current admin team. Kind hearted dude is out 2 grand, and asshat site founder walks away enriched, after having shit all over all of us.
From what I learned skimming this crap, he only invested $1,000, so he's doubled his money in a week.
"Artificial" intelligence indeed.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Corelli's A on Monday March 10 2014, @05:30PM
I'm a longtime lurker at /. and am thankful for the efforts and risks taken by John and all the rest of the folks working to make this new site successful. The high emotions surrounding the start-up of this site are indicative of the passion you all have for getting things off the ground and building a new home for the disenchanted of the old site.
Having participated in a few startups and being married for a few decades, I can say that whenever people are working toward a goal with passion, egos are often intertwined with group goals (this is generally a good thing - keeps us going). But the necessary intimacy of the situation means that our egos are also much more at risk of injury. This is a real thing. I know my ego has driven some regrettable (in hindsight) decisions in my life (although as a crusty old fart I'm getting better about that).
Things with this site have been happening very fast and I think it's led to a lot of exhaustion. Tiredness and stress sometimes lead to poor decisions, so I think it's worth taking a step back and considering the long term. How will our decisions look to us or to others from the vantage point of a year or five down the road? Is the decision based on feelings of the moment or does it advance the long-term goal?
Nut & bolts: When I was a callow yoot, cash flow was sometimes an issue, and $75 was a big deal, and I needed it RFN. Maybe that's an issue at play here. But I also think a detailed accounting/receipts are worthwhile. I have to do it for my business. Of course, I'm in no position to judge line items in this situation. But it seems that most fair deals I've been involved in result in each side believing they have given up a bit more than they ought.
I think it's OK to slow down the timetable and allow time for reconsideration. Look at where this site is now, with frequent article postings and interesting comments. Bravo! It works! Sure, there are improvements to be made, bugs to be fixed, etc., but on the whole, you've achieved a lot in a short time. My gratitude to all involved.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by hybristic on Tuesday March 11 2014, @01:57AM
Barrabas, it's been sad watching this all go down this way. I remember reaching out to you early on in this project and you had a lot of passion and good will. In the end I contributed very little to getting this site live, as my schedule was too chaotic, and by the time I could, very skilled people were already in my place. So I understand how frustrating it can be to get wrapped up in a project like this one, only to realize your uses are minimal. But instead of being happy competent people have taken over, you are getting a bit sour.
I am a bit baffled you find NCommander to be so malicious and hard to work with. While he and zford were attempting to get slashcode running on my VPS, they ran into many issues and my VPS contol panel was useless. I felt their frustration with the server, as they were vocal about it, but even while dictating to me their needs, both seemed reasonable. Even at 2 am after NCommander was going on day 3 of tireless work (still sorry for the hours wasted guys). Now, I missed the move in irc's so that was around the time I stopped being in the know, so I guess its reasonable to say things have changed. NCommander has admitted to saying a few less than choice words, but I can't imagine he's done a full 180 in his attitude. What i think speaks volumes is that there are a lot of the original team still working hard on this site. If NCommander was a raging, unreasonable douche, I know the dev and sys team would have left him to his madness, but that isnt the case. In fact, even in the mess of things, he's generally always tired to lighten the mood. This is not to say he's a saint, but I think this beef between you two is less about him being a bad guy, and more about how this project turned out (which is to say, not your vision). I have no issues with you as a person, and I hope you the best in your personal and professional life, but please settle this issue like a professional.
I hope that I can get involved with this project again, but even if I cannot, I would be glad to walk away knowing its in the hands that it is in. I hope you can do the same.
If you still haven't been reimbursed for the upgrades to my server when we trying to get the site up there, let me know.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 12 2014, @03:22AM
Yes, you are.