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Wednesday October 26, 22
04:01 PM
A Michigan jury on Wednesday found three men guilty of aiding a conspiracy to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020, a plot that prosecutors said grew out of hostility over restrictions imposed during the COVID-19 pandemic.
After two weeks of testimony in Jackson County Circuit Court, the jury found Joseph Morrison, 28, his father-in-law Pete Musico, 44, and Paul Bellar, 23, guilty of gang membership, firearm violations and providing material support for terrorism. They could face up to 20 years in prison.
Michigan jury finds three men guilty in plot to kidnap governor
Jury finds three men guilty in plot to kidnap Gov Whitmer
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
I think that I shall never see
A billboard lovely as a tree.
Indeed, unless the billboards fall
I'll never see a tree at all.
-- Ogden Nash
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @04:15PM (87 children)
Good! It's about time some of these idiots faced the legal consequences of their actions. I'm sure the runaway and khallow will make a desperate attempt to spin this as a set up, but they are wrong. I also have no doubt that fusty is going to tell us that this is all the Democrats' fault, but he's also wrong. Suck dead toads, assholes!
(Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 26 2022, @04:22PM (48 children)
Ah yes, the party of "Personal Responsibility BUT NOT LIKE THAT!"
(Score: 4, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 26 2022, @04:24PM (45 children)
Also, the party of "Tough on Crime BUT NOT LIKE THAT!"
They prefer their human traffickers to be the Governor of Florida, for example!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @07:59PM (44 children)
You're mostly talking to yourself here. Are you that obsessed? That's alright, just wait for November. We're really gonna stick it to the libs this time around. Or, more accurately, the libs have stuck it to themselves. Three top voter concerns are crime, inflation, and immigration, all of which are Democrat chickens coming home to roost.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @09:15PM (3 children)
Checked-out what CNN's doing now. At-first surprisingly, they're throwing John Fetterman under the bus. It's almost like they want to lose a... Wait a minute! They're changing the subject, trying to distract the "base." They're certainly not gonna push real headlines:
A side-benefit is that CNN now looks like they aren't biased, since they trash-talked their own. That's a free pass, redeeming CNN for their next dozen hit-jobs. Not counting that Oz guy, who they can now safely ignore. I'm sure the next thirteen days are planned-out, anyway.
I still say Fetterman looks like what would happen if Lurch The Butler and Uncle Fester had a luv child. Use the line now; in a couple of days, nobody will remember the poor dear.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @10:21PM (2 children)
Ethanol Fooled poop right there, though not quite enough racism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @02:41AM
Profound.
And Pugsley and Thing had a luv-glove — otherwise known as a sockpuppet — and thusly was born the backbone of this place.
50¢ at a time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @06:39PM
Yes, I feel informed by that post, thank you! It's clear that no reasonable adult would be in denial of the world today, like that. Not a positive, good thing to add in this shriveling little web site, just attacking those who don't jump into lockstep with you. Denying reality and gluing yourselves in protest to your little fantasy worlds, is not a bandwagon for America to join. As one grows older and more experienced, they realize that they don't want to squander more years like this one. We want a country of opportunity, prosperity, civility.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @04:02AM (33 children)
This is exactly why I won't vote for Republicans. Your goal is to "stick it to the libs" instead of providing better solutions to the problems that Americans face.
I make a bit under $60k/year doing scientific research. I have a bit over $13k in student loan debt. I've watched as Republicans have consistently given tax breaks that disproportionately benefit the wealthy. Biden's efforts to cancel student loans would allow other people to catch breaks just like the wealthy have with Republican tax cuts. Instead of offering solutions to help people like me, Republicans have impugned the character of people with student loan debt and want to "stick it to the libs."
I am very concerned about what will happen if the economy goes into a significant recession in 2023. The answer from many people seems to be that unemployment has to increase to address inflation, meaning that a lot of hard-working Americans will suffer as a result of the Fed trying to get inflation under control. I have yet to hear a good Republican solution to try to help Americans get through whatever economic troubles may be coming.
I also have a huge problem with Republican lies that the 2020 election was stolen. It wasn't, but most Republicans elected to federal office don't want to call out the lies and tell the truth that Joe Biden won. You may not like Biden. You may absolutely disagree with Biden's policies. But tell the truth that Biden won the election. Election denial is a disqualifying factor. If you can't tell the truth about the election, I can't trust you to tell the truth about anything else. Once again, the goal to "stick it to the libs" comes ahead of doing what's right for the country.
This is exactly the problem. Republicans aren't offering a plan to make life better for all Americans, whether they're "libs" or otherwise. This is about a desire to "stick it to the libs." That is a driving force in Republican politics, and that is exactly why I cannot justify casting a vote for any Republican in this upcoming election cycle. If you want my vote, offer real solutions instead of bragging about how you're going to "stick it to the libs." If you think the Democrats are wrong about student loan forgiveness, offer a better solution. Provide real solutions to the economic issues we're facing. Offer a real plan for foreign policy and avoiding further escalation of the Ukraine war. And tell the truth about the 2020 election instead of tolerating and giving tacit approval to election denial.
The Republican Party isn't a party for the American people. It's a party with a desire to "stick it to the libs." That is why Republicans don't deserve my vote.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @10:26AM
Yeah, well, when your party goes full-faggot 100% of the time on every issue, you've got to expect the more sane people will tell you to fuck off.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @07:37PM
You are a responsible adult. Government is not your mommy and daddy.
Yes, the economy is still heading down hard. Figure on hitting bottom next year; it's in the schedule. It's part of the Green New Deal, the Build Back Better, the globalism, the open borders, the tax and spend. You wanted it, you voted for it, you got it, you'll live with it. Can't wait until mommy and daddy stop helping you.
Maybe the country can recover. Nobody now in charge is doing anything productive. Last time, it took post-WWII America to get it started again. Maybe that's why the left is driving us to WWIII.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @10:23PM (29 children)
And you have no hope for advancement? Sounds like you made a poor investment. I can out woe-is-me you. But it's my problem. "Canceling" your debt is a tax on the poor. It's a tax on me.
Tax those who drive investment and job growth. Ever gotten a good job from a poor person? You know who hires the poor? Well, not in this Johnson-era redistribution, where you would endanger your government handouts by working. Except that casual, unreported labor, of course. Poor, like everyone else, live in a country of opportunity, where we can rise above our lot, not just wallow in self pity.
It's an inflationary tax on the poor.
Stick it to the marxists, you mean. We are all responsible for our own lives. Your collectivism all falls apart when we run out of other peoples' money.
House Republicans just laid out their agenda if they win bigly in the midterms. Here's the rundown. [notthebee.com]
42 Policy Proposals Donald Trump Outlined at America First Summit in D.C. [breitbart.com]
McCarthy Unveils New ‘Commitment To America’ Agenda That GOP Will Pursue If They Retake House [dailywire.com]
Alex Marlow: ‘Historic Inflation, Stifling Taxation’ Are Part of World Economic Forum’s Plan for ‘The Great Reset’ [breitbart.com]
Larry Elder: ‘Uncle Tom II’ Exposes How BLM Is ‘Destroying What Made America Great and Using Blacks as a Means to Do So’ [breitbart.com]
Those Who Want to Destroy the Constitution [newsbusters.org]
The True Domestic Enemy Of The American Constitutional Republic Is The Tyrannical Globalist Ruling Class [thegatewaypundit.com]
WEF’s Harari: Hand Over Power To The Technocratic Elite Or Die [infowars.com]
Noam Chomsky: US Now Under a Totalitarian Culture Much Worse Than Soviet Union [infowars.com]
The Return of the Dark Ages [newsbusters.org]
If you want to protest against reality, feel free to glue yourself to a passing 18-wheeler. That sort of thing is all the rage, in your wokie world.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @12:11AM (15 children)
Oh no, another idiot that thinks rich people are the only thing keeping the economy afloat. No way ordinary people would be able to start successful businesses if they were financially stable enough to do so /s
Funny thing, you rightwing dumb fucks are the ones always going on about small businesses while not understanding that you keep voting for those that destroy small businesses and ship jobs overseas. Keep huffing the propaganda fumes, any day now all that trickle down economics will manage to improve the lives of regular Murricans.
Get fucked yo, infowars? You know that shit head was ordered to pay almost $1 billion over his lies? Truly you are a sheep begging for the hyenas to eat you.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @12:33AM (2 children)
After an unfair show trial, yo. They can't bring Adam Lanza to justice, so they made Alex Jones into the monster and use absurd damage awards to chill dissent. $2.75 trillion next cuz why not yo?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @02:32AM (1 child)
He is sweaty and fat, and he has bad hair. Pretty soon, that'll be a hanging offense, if you're a Republican.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @10:00AM
The entire defense of Alex Jones is itself a false flag operation. He is as guilty as sin, making money off of promoting conspiracy theories about the deaths of dead children? Who could fake something like that, so well that it would be a defense in court? Yes, Alex Jones himself. His defense is itself the conspiracy theory, the one he made up, so he is guilty. I would have preferred a capital sentence, death by being blown apart by the loudspeakers he used to tie to the top of his Buick. Sort of a North Korean execution, the sort that Trump would approve.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @02:29AM (6 children)
Who wasn't waiting for that post? Still, it is a let down, even by these lowered expectations. I did actually put some work in that post, and it got nothing more than a post of mine consisting of a throw-away zinger. I keep hoping for a reply that's something a little more literate, one that perhaps makes a point. With the very first link I made, it became obvious that the main refutation would be that conservatives are deplorable, and conservative web sites even more so. And they're all the same... the greedy, white, racist bastards.
The only point worth grabbing was that jobs are still being exported at an alarming rate. You might see how the previous administration tried to reverse that, but the one before that excelled at closing down American jobs, while "managing the decline." Remember how they told us to settle for less, and get used to eating out-dated food? And now, this current administration doesn't believe in work at all... in this country, that is. But the current administration sure does like China... a whole lot. Odd thing about it is that China isn't all that big on ice cream.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:36AM (5 children)
There are reputable conservative websites. The Wall Street Journal is certainly one. I disagree with a lot of the opinions expressed in the WSJ, but they are very credible. For that matter, reason.com tends to be conservative though you might classify them as being libertarian. Again, I disagree with a lot of the opinions expressed there, but they're generally credible. While the news reporting on foxnews.com is significantly biased, it is generally credible, unlike Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. There are plenty of credible sources with a conservative lean or bias. Infowars isn't one of them.
That's a ridiculous statement, and you know it. You may disagree with some of Biden's policies, but that's pants-on-fire nonsense.
Nope. If anything, Biden has been as tough on China as Trump was, if not tougher. Biden has been tough on China, continuing and even ratcheting up many of Trump's policies. The Biden administration has also been quite bold in pledging to defend Taiwan if China attacks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @05:34AM (3 children)
An argument isn’t just contradiction.
Well! it CAN be!
No it can’t! An argument is a connected series of statement intended to establish a proposition.
No it isn’t!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:08PM (2 children)
What the hell is this?!? Does it even have any connection to the discussion? Or did Clint Eastwood come on SN to argue with an empty chair again?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @06:27PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @07:38PM
NO, it isn't!
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9 [dailymotion.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @10:05AM
Rupert Murdock has you by the balls, and he is squeezing so hard you can't think straight. Might as well go full Moonie Wash Times, or Oil Wash Examiner, or Epoch Loonie FalungGong, possibly dead Andrew Brietbarf, or Redstate, TruthAboutDumbs, ZeroHenge, or SoylentNews. Reputable news sources, all! I joke you not!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @06:46PM
No, the problem is that you wanted the Republican plan. Your MSM and personally-approved sites, wouldn't allow actual pro-Republican news even if Elon Musk's mother bought them.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 30 2022, @01:04AM (3 children)
Do you know what ordinary people who start successful businesses are? Rich people keeping the economy afloat. My take is that if you're not financially stable enough to start a successful business, then you probably wouldn't have started a successful business anyway. That financial instability is a sign of unfitness.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2022, @01:43AM (1 child)
Wealth as a proxy for virtue? You wouldn't happen to be one of those prosperity gospel folks, would you? just curious.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 30 2022, @02:39AM
Nope, just noting that successful businesses are notorious for generating wealth even when that's not their primary purpose. And that if you can't run your own life and finances, then you likely won't do any better with those of a more complicated business.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2022, @03:32AM
You have too much patience with some people. It's the same thing here, all the time, always flashing <blink>12:00</blink>, and they'll never get it. A subset will one day realize that that big college debt was just time/money down the drain, and the govt is trying to repay it as an apology and in hopes that this small gratuity will ensure they'll never get too introspective.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:11AM (11 children)
You state that forgiving student loans will cause inflation and effectively be an inflationary tax on the poor. Let's ignore the fact that many economists disagree with your assessment. We'll skip over that part.
Republicans have said they intend to cut corporate taxes and lower taxes for the wealthy. That's part of their agenda if they get majorities in Congress. This will, of course, put more money into the economy, which will make inflation worse. By your own logic, we should call this an inflationary tax on the poor.
You're opposed to student loan forgiveness targeted at the poor and middle class because you say it will cause inflation. But you want to cut taxes for corporations and the wealthy, which will cause inflation.
If Republicans want my vote, they need to make the case that I'm going to be better off by voting for them. If anything, it appears that Republican plans won't help inflation and might actually make it worse. Meanwhile, the poor and middle class can expect to lose out because of other Republican policies.
Not only do Republicans want to "stick it to the libs." They're also going to stick it to the poor and middle class.
This is exactly why Republicans don't deserve my vote. Instead of impugning the character of the poor and middle class, you should actually try earning their votes for once. But apparently it's more important to "stick it to the libs" than to actually help most Americans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @05:29AM (4 children)
It's like economic cause&effect are unrelated. Compare, for instance, the state and size of the American middle class today, and four years ago.
And about wealth creation... boy is this the wrong venue!
And you're putting words in my mouth.
At least you said it shorter, this time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:01AM (3 children)
Boy does the craziness of zealots make no sense outside their own bubble.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:06PM (2 children)
Hmmm... Philosophically, maybe the real world's simply a big bubble.
Maybe printing money does create wealth, if you count it in the number of dollars one has, instead of the purchasing power of each dollar. Remember when tycoons used to hand dimes to the passing riffraff? You know, a dime used to be real money, and not just because of the silver content.
Know what happens to bubbles?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @06:10PM (1 child)
Anyone that watches Fox news unironically is in the bubble, sorry you're just on the side of lies wee lad. No amount of Sharpie can make them true.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @09:32PM
Just goes to show ya... don't get much these days, from two and a half dimes (25¢).
With this runaway inflation raging on for God knows how long, a post will soon cost twenty times as much as today.
And it'll still be illiterate shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:13PM (5 children)
If I understand correctly, Republicans view "libs" and "the poor" to be one and the same. This could explain quite a lot about their policies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @06:30PM (4 children)
Yes. The Republicans are against making people poor, while the marxists require that class in order to dominate them.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @10:09AM (3 children)
Republicans think that if they have to pay $20 more in taxes, they are poor, while giving tax breaks in the millions is just "job creation"? Reagan rises from the grave to say, "I was mislead", and, "Pull the other one!".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @08:22PM
So... raising taxes is good, but creating jobs is bad? Right-on, got it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday October 30 2022, @02:46AM (1 child)
What would the point be of that $20 in taxes? Did we forget the corporate welfare thing again? Or the incredible inefficiency of public spending even when it's spent on useful things?
There's not much point to complaining about people who don't want to pay extra taxes, when you ignore what those taxes are spent on. Protip: there will always be holdouts who don't want to pay taxes no matter how little or how worthwhile those taxes are spent. But they get a lot of allies when taxes are spent poorly.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2022, @03:37AM
...there will always be holdouts who don't want to pay taxes... and that's how they got Al Capone. Looks like that's how they'll get The Big Guy's son, too.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:20AM
If you ask me, I say tax you more! Tax you for being poor, because you are a loser. Tax you because you can't do math. Tax you because you are a racist MoFo who doesn't even realize you are racist. A lot like Runaway in that regard, in fact, the similarity is uncanny. Unnatural. It is almost like you were Runaway, but using another username. But SN disallows such things, correct?
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday October 28 2022, @05:09PM
+1 Nailed It.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @04:37AM (4 children)
Yep, it's checkmate. Republican-controlled Congress and governorships, with SCOTUS rubber stamp, puts Trump back in office in 2023. Same thing happened in Germany, but they only had lightning warfare and not nuclear warfare.
The next 33±5 months ought to be interesting until the worldline manifold self-intersects at the steins;gate, causing divergence to become too small to measure.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @08:52AM
If we could get a substandard car that got classified as an SUV, we could just kidnapp all those republican governors, perhaps by baiting them with wads of cash, or young boys? Lindsey? The Trumpists have opened the gates of irrational violence, so, what the hay? Good for the Goose, good for the Gander, and for the Trumpeters? (Yes, I know that Trumpeters are Swans, but let's not pick nannies, or kanyes, or some minor points.)
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday October 29 2022, @11:33PM (2 children)
What is a Stein's Gate? Do you mean an Einstein-Rosen bridge, a wormhole? Because at this point it will take parallel universes or time travel to undo the complete mess we're in.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2022, @12:53AM (1 child)
Nah, just shut down Fox News for conspiring against the American people during the pandemic COVID-19 and spreading lies leading directly to the insurrection on 1/6 led by Donald J. Trump. Such a conviction and shutdown of corporate controlled media for crimes against the nation would lead most current Republicans back to sanity. There would be an uptick in domestic terrorism, but I suggest we avoid going the Iranian route of theocratic oppression. No one wants to hurt white Christians except for rare extremists, please return the favor and disavow white supremacists like the MAGAs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 30 2022, @01:47AM
I don't know if you're delusional enough to believe all that or just having a power fantasy wet dream.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @05:51AM
LOL! As if there were never any of that when the GOP drives the bus! Funny story - but still a fairy tale.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @04:34PM (1 child)
Let us also note that this was not a plea deal. A jury of fellow citizens decided this one. Suck that, khallow!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @04:43AM
Yes but this is Michigan's Calvinist no-go zone, so it's likely they all drove trucks to jury duty....
(Score: 3, Interesting) by canopic jug on Wednesday October 26 2022, @04:39PM (8 children)
The linked Reuters article only mentions the charge of kidnapping. I have not followed the case since earlier this year, but I recall that they were also planning to torture and then kill her should they be able to get a hold of her. However, those charges have not been listed along side that of kidnapping. Had the defense been able to whittle down the charges to just the one? Or are more on their way? Or is it merely an oversight in the overly brief article?
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @05:32PM (4 children)
It doesn't matter, it was all the FBI's plan anyway.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @05:45PM (3 children)
You realize these morons are capable of refusing to kidnap the governor? Have you lost every last shred of responsibility after Trump showed you how to take none? That is generously assuming there is any credibility to your FBI conspiracy theory. Damn domestic terrorists wanting to blame other people for their own violence, even ISIS takes more responsibility for their actions than you chuckle hut grubbing mother fuckers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @06:49PM (1 child)
Then why don't you go back to licking satan's hooves? [dilbert.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @10:24PM
Scott Adams is so lame he has become the oldest incel alive, truly an inspiration to wankers everywhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @09:33PM
They're better paid
(Score: 5, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday October 26 2022, @05:35PM (2 children)
Here's some more info:
EXPLAINER: Charges in Michigan Gov. Whitmer kidnap plot case [apnews.com]
1: Kidnapping conspiracy
2: Conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction (they planned to blow up a bridge)
3: Possession of an unlawful destructive device (a home-made bomb)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @09:00PM (1 child)
Your link is going to a 502 error. I believe the difference is between charges in federal court versus charges in state court. The federal charges will definitely be different from the state charges.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/26/us/michigan-wolverine-watchmen-trial.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday October 28 2022, @05:45PM
Link seems OK here. Try again?
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: -1, Troll) by khallow on Wednesday October 26 2022, @11:43PM (28 children)
We already see the problem with the conviction - gang membership, for example, should be a non-crime. It's not the business of the state of Michigan to punish you for who you chose to associate yourself with, but instead it's a crime with up to twenty years [detroitnews.com]. I couldn't find a description of the fire arm violations, but it was the only serious charge mentioned with up to two years of sentencing. Finally, there's the similarly silly charge of "providing material support for terrorism". We have yet to determine whether there was actual terrorism going on, well outside of the FBI, that is. But it is interesting that these people were convicted even though they weren't in on the actual kidnapping plot - apparently it was enough to have merely "trained" the people who were. That also has a sentence potential of up to twenty years.
So up to forty two years of sentencing on charges that really are only two years of actual crime. That's pretty bad.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @02:08AM (11 children)
Sure, you can like them or not and act in consequence, but it's not your business to tell by what laws should people live when you don't live with them.
Their home, their customs.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 27 2022, @02:35AM (7 children)
I happen to be in Michigan now (traveling through). I check the box.
This is a democratic norm - freedom of association. And from a practical sense, gangs are a traditional grouping of people in urban areas. Sure, it's often for the purposes of criminal enterprise. But it's also for the purpose of self defense, which is a legally recognized right. And when it becomes a felony to band together to protect yourself, that's a problem.
Here, we have a related problem that this really is an attack on political speech. A bunch of disgruntled people should be able to get together and belly ache without FBI plants encouraging them to go kidnap governors. Once we get past that perfidious influence from the FBI, there doesn't seem to be much terrorism going on nor need to determine gang membership.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday October 28 2022, @06:10PM (5 children)
Actually, what you need is some evidence that the FBI instigated this plot. That very point was brought up by the defense here, and apparently the jury didn't think much of it. That theory didn't hold up in court.
You can claim "perfidious influence" all you want. The best way remains to not get convicted of crimes of conspiracy is to not conspire. Bellyaching is absolutely fine; these guys took overt actions towards their plan, which is not OK.
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:14PM (3 children)
The FBI should be a great source of info about what the FBI is doing. Except...
HUGE: FBI Now Wants 66 Years Before Releasing Information on Seth Rich – Information They Originally DENIED They Had! [thegatewaypundit.com]
Maybe the FBI should investigate this... instead of what's in Melania Trump's closet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:35PM (2 children)
FBI wants more time to release documents, rightwing crazies flip out and call it a HUGE DEVELOPMENT.
Once again, being told no doesn't make your crazy ideas magically true. Realize that if there actually is evidence that Clinton had Rich killed then she should absolutely go to jail for it. Can you same the same for the numerous crimes by Trump? Rhetorical question, we know you crazies are cult members now.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:53PM
More time, more time... I wish I had that much more time.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @03:23AM
But will 66 years be enough? That's pretty rushed.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @03:14AM
And I did back when [soylentnews.org]. The story of the present journal states that a dozen people were arrested for this alleged conspiracy when they were rounding up people. I note in my journal that there were 2 FBI informants and 2 undercover officers in that group. At the least, there was a quarter of the group (and it probably was a larger proportion most of the time since people were coming and going throughout the stretch) with considerable incentive to encourage people to plan to commit concrete crimes that the FBI could jail someone - and a history of the FBI entrapping dumb people in terrorism theater going back decades.
The jury in that case at least partially agreed, acquitting two people and hanging on two more.
If I were to incite these people to kidnap governors, it'd be a felony of the expected sort. If the FBI does the same, it's catching terrorists with the agents involved getting promotions.
In the present case though, we don't even have the present defendants charged with the crime of conspiracy to kidnap. They got charged with weird stuff: gang membership and training terrorists (with a small fire arms violation tossed in there). I find it interesting how shrill and emotional the arguments about their guilt are when the posters refuse to even understand what the charges were!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @10:23AM
This^^^
I was just sitting in what passes for a "living room" in a doublewide trailer at the Runaway homestead, and some people were saying we ought to drive out to Californay and break into Pelosi's house, to like kidnap her and hold her hostage, until, like, our demands were met, like for the Malheur guys, for more lube and steaks. Now, it seemed to be just the usual talk, but Runaway himself jacked himself up into his TrailBlazer, with his 1911 and Rags, and het out for California. Not sure how far he made it, or how drunk he actually was, but it is Texas to the west, so he was probably alright. Sometimes a "gang" is a traitorous conspiracy, just saying.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday October 27 2022, @02:38AM (2 children)
And those laws could result in decades of imprisonment. Michigan already acknowledged with the trials being about a purported kidnapping attempt that kidnapping and imprisoning people without legal justification is something that should be illegal. I'm just applying that premise consistently.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @08:55AM (1 child)
I feel, rather strongly, that khallow is getting worried. Known associate. Fellow traveller. Repeated sex partner. All these things could count against you, as a insurgent Republican wingman.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 27 2022, @01:23PM
I suspect khallow owns a PT Cruiser.
(Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Thursday October 27 2022, @04:54PM (15 children)
Have you considered NOT trying to kidnap and execute political leads if you don't want to be called a terrorist?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 28 2022, @01:41AM (14 children)
Nobody actually has any evidence of anyone trying to do that, but here, it's even worse. These guys are being convicted of allegedly training the people who were and membership in a gang plus minor fire arms violations.
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @01:46AM (11 children)
I think a judge and a jury disagree with you.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday October 28 2022, @01:58AM (10 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:20AM (1 child)
???? Look, I get that it's kind of a tradition around here to not read TFA, but in this case your question would have been answered in the first sentence of the first paragraph! This is just plain pig-ignorant lazy. Even for you, khallow.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @02:53AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:37AM
I think it only fair you publish the NN and TM.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Friday October 28 2022, @06:44PM (6 children)
Conspiracy to kidnap was charge #1 and they WERE convicted for it!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @03:19AM (2 children)
Don't see that charge in the list, bud. If you look at the sentencing count [detroitnews.com], the entire potential sentence is due to the above three charges.
But please tell me more about this imaginary conviction on conspiracy to kidnap.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @06:07PM (1 child)
Thanks for the link, helped clear things up.
So the 3 men charged in this article were not the ones that actually did the deed.
"These three defendants had been pushing toward violence for months," Doddamani said. "Even if they weren’t going to do an act of terrorism themselves, they were more than happy and willing to help someone else."
How dare prosecutors do their job properly and not charge them with the crimes they didn't commit. Typucal khallow, so busy with a narrative he doesn't notice the facts don't match. You're either truly dumb enough to make this mistake over and over and over and over, or you argue in bad faith like a good little propagandist. So which is it, intellectual laziness and incompetence or intentional misdirection to downplay rightwing terrorism?
At least people repeating the incorrect charges for these three are quoting the article, your mistake is much worse since it required research and you still push a false narrative with a focus on a relatively minor mistake, because -checks notes- you want to pretend these terrorists are victims of the big bad FBI. Or you're stupidly incompetent.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @07:13PM
It wasn't me who got the charges wrong.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 23, @06:29PM (2 children)
Since SN is going away, I thought I would say bye. If you want to contact me, I created a new email address: SlumberingEiran@proton.me
How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 23, @07:35PM (1 child)
haha clever
thanks man it's been fun!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday May 23, @08:18PM
Yes, it has been fun.
How often should I have my memory checked? I used to know but...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:40AM (1 child)
Umm, you consider those last points worse than trying to kidnap a State Governor?
Sanity is lost on you my dear khallow. With your other mistakes it almost seems like you're a BOT posting vague context based rightwing comments with some real posts sprinkled in. Seriously bruh, perspective? Has the internet obliterated all reality based context? We're living in a simulation! Lolol, course we are, do you not read the Bible bruh?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday October 29 2022, @03:20AM
Not at all. But that's what they were convicted of.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 26 2022, @07:20PM
What seals the convictions is the video of them practicing sneaking up, and, BAM!, all piling out of the back of a PT Cruiser assault vehicle. Clowns, and their cars. Hey, didn't Supreme Court Head Muckymuck Roberts used to drive a PT Crusier?
(Score: 4, Touché) by RamiK on Wednesday October 26 2022, @08:11PM (1 child)
They've been drinking Michigan water all their lives so you can't really blame them for being ever-so-slightly retarded.
compiling...
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @04:56AM
So retarded is a now taboo word that I've had trouble eliminating from my vocabulary. It is an exercise in empathy to try and respect the changing cultural norms. Using the word "retarded" is not more important to me than accidentally making someone feel like shit, so I work to not use it. The world changes, and I'd rather not be an inconsiderate jerk that refuses to change with the times. Assuming of course the change is reasonable, but when it comes to adjectives there is a wealth of alternatives!
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28 2022, @08:33AM (1 child)
Reminds me of back in the day, before a majority of Republicans lost their minds, but some certainly had, already,
Amongst those were the Merry band of Merry men that Runaway lead in a failed attempt to kidnap the First Lady at the time, Hilary Clinton. Of course, we are talking about the First Lady of Arkansas, the wife of Gov. Bill Clinton. Nothing came of it, since one of the conspirators had nasly self-inflicted gunshot wound, another came down with some undisclosed sexually transmitted disease, and Runaway actually got a full time paying job making leaf-blowers and other instruments of torture. But if their plan has succeeded, they would be as nortorious as the Michigan Woolerites, and probably have more hard time. Runaway really enjoys hard time. Most of the time.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 29 2022, @07:33AM
For those banned, censored, and not allowed to post to a Runaway journal entry, here is his latest admission:
Death, Murder, Kill. Someone needs to show this cowardly Republican what political violence actually looks like. First, we shoot his dogs. Second? Up to the perp.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 18 2022, @12:45AM
Just to point out, DeathMonkey's journal had well over 100 comments, prior to the most recent purge. Much of value was lost.