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The Mighty Buzzard (18)
The Mighty Buzzard
themightybuzzard@proton.me
http://soylentne ... e+Mighty+Buzzard
"Buzzy, you're probably the dumbest person I've ever encountered. Well, there is aristarchus, so make it 2nd dumbest."
themightybuzzard@proton.me
http://soylentne ... e+Mighty+Buzzard
"Buzzy, you're probably the dumbest person I've ever encountered. Well, there is aristarchus, so make it 2nd dumbest."
Journal of The Mighty Buzzard (18)
The Fine Print: The following are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Monday December 17, 18
11:49 AM
Thursday I posted a journal entry asking for serious discussion of an issue rather than trolling or shit flinging. I got about what I expected. One solitary AC willing to seriously discuss the issue and every other participant either unwilling or uninterested in engaging in such.
That's fucking sad, folks.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
Frankfort, Kentucky, makes it against the law to shoot off a policeman's tie.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday December 17 2018, @03:10PM (2 children)
But indicative of the current individualist vs authoritarian divide: You lot over there are crazy and you probably eat babies too, therefore it's okay to demonize everyone who doesn't share our beliefs, down to the last jot and tittle; no need to discuss. And exposure to alternative positions just hardens the margins.
Gleh, I see the discussion has grown alarmingly since I looked in and discovered I had nothing to add, at least that I felt like typing out at that moment.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @04:31PM (1 child)
Laziness is a perfectly valid excuse that I can get behind but it'd be really nice to have a choice other than folks who can't be arsed to talk and folks who do nothing but scream at you incoherently.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @09:43PM
Maybe if you learned a language other than Libertarese you might be able to understand some of those foreign sounding words. Basic English skills should suffice.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday December 17 2018, @05:00PM (1 child)
I was kinda watching that thread to see where it went. I did notice that the word "privileges" didn't appear. For instance, driving is classified as a privilege, in all the states that I've had reason to look. It is neither a right, nor an entitlement.
I did, however, get distracted with another discussion, so I didn't watch your thread as closely as I might. It now has 107 comments - is it worth reading through them? Right now, I have to run, so it will be awhile even if you say it's worth it.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @06:03PM
Not especially. There's one decent thread and a bunch of pointlessness.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @05:15PM (15 children)
Your journal entry started off dishonestly by setting up custom word definitions you decided on. Then you casually dismissed honest points as garbage. You are sad but at least i had no expectations of you creating a decent discussion
(Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @06:01PM (8 children)
Going to continue your bullshit trolling from the last entry here then? Whatever. You bore me.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @06:25PM (6 children)
And you're full of shit.
For someone who asks for honest discussion you sure avoid it at all costs and marginalize any dissenting voice. Even the more sane libertarians disagree with you regularly and even those discussions go nowhere because of your #1 axiom: TMB is always right!
Go boil your head ya big lump.
(Score: 5, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Monday December 17 2018, @08:13PM (5 children)
Buzzard got triggered and is melting like a little snowflake.
Why are conservatives such whiny little bitches?
Here's a hint, Buzzy: Leave comments set to disabled on your journal if you need a Safe Space.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:07AM (4 children)
See, troll-AC? Watch DeathMonkey if you want to see skillful trolling. He's much, much better at it. He still only makes me want to mock him rather than giving a shit about what he says but at least he shows some style.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:30AM (3 children)
I sent TMB off the deep end!!! :D :D :D
I haz won internetz 4 2day
no more newb wranglin 4 me!@!
XOXOXO
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:52PM (2 children)
That's an interesting technique, declaring victory when someone's just laughed at you for failing miserably, but not a good one. Seriously, pay attention to people who know how to troll for a while. You're just embarrassing yourself.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @10:39PM (1 child)
Projection, the key skill of a true narcissist.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:33AM
Indeed. Carry on with it if that's your desire. Me? I haven't started up a new round of trolling in half a year or better and I can point out multiple serious, ongoing discussions I'm having right now on this site. You? You started with trolling and haven't done anything else, so assuming any question from you is a troll is a legitimate assumption.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday December 17 2018, @10:00PM
Why are you such a whiny little bitch? If you can't take the heat, go fishing or whack off in the woods or whatever it is you do in lieu of actually contributing something useful to the world.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by chromas on Monday December 17 2018, @11:37PM (5 children)
I knew it! TMB is secretly a radical lefty SJW!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:10AM (4 children)
It's true. I'm going trans and lesbian next week; possibly furry after the new year. I should have my oppression points maxed out enough that I can say and do anything I like before the crappie start spawning.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @04:27AM (3 children)
possibly furry after the new year
No more bikini wax?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:54PM (2 children)
Nah, shaving is more manly. It has blades, cutting things, and possibly blood involved.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:42PM (1 child)
:-) More manly? Sounds like you've never done a wax. I like to see blood too, just not my own.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @03:54PM
Given that both involve pain, the one that results in actual injury takes the manliness crown. Really, we're arguing whether it's more manly to headbutt a chainsaw or a bear though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @06:45PM (3 children)
This last quote was your reply to https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=29072&page=1&cid=774901#commentwrap [soylentnews.org] where I tried very hard to not make it "you're an evil bastard" and framed the two options as choices. You decide that not paying more in taxes is more important than providing fellow citizens with healtchare. It is VERY telling that your reaction is "I'm not an evil bastard stop calling me that!" when I did no such thing.
Maybe buzzardo here is a real boy after all? Or is Jimminy still playing your conscience?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @11:21PM (2 children)
I made a couple comments in the past week you haven't responded to with a troll yet. Gotta catch em all!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @11:26PM (1 child)
I push back against your bullshit. It would be pretty tragic indeed if I had to respond to every single post you make, the number is already way too high.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @11:30PM
You only missed like three. You can make it if you try harder!
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by fustakrakich on Monday December 17 2018, @07:22PM (26 children)
To me, you were looking for affirmation of your particular view and age old superficial politics, not a discussion targeting the source of the problem. Collective living is a thing. Living alone in the wilderness is a bit different, and probably more suitable to your political theories. Besides, how often can you all go repeating yourselves with this stuff? It only reveals an addiction to mass media gossip that people use to justify their antipathy towards each other, with really bullshit "philosophies". The answers to all your questions are in front of your nose. It's just not framed in primitive personal politics. Personally I'm a believer in triage. See what happens if ever decide to run your economy that way.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @08:45PM
Eh, TMB was fishing with the last entry and this entry is just more trololololololol.
He gets plenty of bites, though!
I admire TMB's style. He's a master of winding people up with laconic, superficial posts no longer than a sentence or two. I can't imagine it takes him more than a minute to write each response.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @09:18PM
Well, at least your points weren't marked as "off topic." Interesting how it is considered off topic for a screed about how people don't use words correctly and confuses issues to get called on how it is not using words correctly and confusing issues.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @11:22PM (23 children)
Nope, I was looking for someone to actually try convincing me of their point of view instead of screaming at me and throwing feces.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday December 17 2018, @11:41PM (22 children)
Not all of us were. You're taking it personal. Sometimes a point of view can't be framed (boxed in) the way you want.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:13AM (16 children)
Yours was both redefining a term defined for the sake of clarity in the conversation and swerving off into entirely unrelated issues. I assumed you weren't serious.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:34AM (15 children)
It may be seem as "swerving off" to you, but I'm just asking that you consider the powerful forces that act upon all of us before you condemn people for not reacting to their environment the same way you do, they are not unrelated at all. Don't let personal bias obscure the target. It costs nothing to treat people humanely, except maybe some pride (and prejudice). To say otherwise is a lie. Denying essential services is simply irrational. The *work or starve* theory is real in the animal world, but it is pathological in human post scarcity society.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:55PM (14 children)
Show me a post-scarcity society and I might agree. I've never seen one though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:55PM (13 children)
I'll have to assume you're not aware of all the surplus filling the landfills. The producers do have a reason to keep prices high. With the bureaucrat's and the military's help, they keep things like food in short supply through war and paperwork. There's lots of stuff just sitting on the shelf and in the silos just rotting away because the price isn't right. That is the direct cause of every shortage. It's always a disagreement over the price, and plain old mismanagement/corruption. We are post scarcity, but now we have actually create it in order to *sell refrigerators to the Eskimos*. Capitalism needs dependency and scarcity to work.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @04:00PM (9 children)
Waste doesn't necessarily equal surplus and food is only one minuscule part of the things that can be scarce set. The reason producers keep prices how they do though is they have families to feed and house as well and their own family is far more important to them than anyone else's.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @06:01PM (8 children)
Yeah, I need a cool billion also...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:13PM (7 children)
Don't know many farmers, do you?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @09:29PM (6 children)
What about 'em? They work in a broken system of waste and corruption [time.com]... Well, it's not really "broken", it is working as designed. Everybody has to sell a little bit of their soul to survive.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:37AM (5 children)
Individual farmers are the baseline. If they cannot make enough to feed their own family off of what they grow, then nothing will get grown. It is not waste to refuse to go into bankruptcy for someone else's benefit.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 19 2018, @06:14PM (4 children)
Well, they're competing against the big boys that can undercut them just long enough to force them out. That, I believe is a different issue. And they are subject to the whims of the commodities traders that distort the markets. Our society can still trivially afford universal health care. You can bet the farmer would pay a lot less for that insurance, and he might appreciate that after his arm gets cut off by the combine, and the bank is threatening to repossess the property.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday December 19 2018, @07:23PM (3 children)
You and I have massively different ideas about what is and what is not trivial then.
Aside from that is the fact that you'd be doing it with money that I have earned and that you have taken under threat of imprisonment. I, who am not a drain on society, would be paying for those who consume more than they contribute. If your concern is for cost effectiveness, start euthanizing anyone whose contribution to handouts ratio exceeds 1:1 over any five year span.
If, however, your concern is for the health of the nation, how about we don't financially hamstring the folks doing a healthy plurality of the world's medical and pharmaceutical research.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 19 2018, @07:37PM (2 children)
Sorry man, take it up with the voters. Your world is made by you and them. You're trying to make trouble over a non-issue. You're being a foot soldier for propagandists who profit from destabilization and social chaos.
If your concern is for cost effectiveness, start euthanizing anyone whose contribution to handouts ratio exceeds 1:1 over any five year span.
:-) Very funny... And you accuse me of being facetious?
Let's move onto something more important, how far do you think the Bears will get this year?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:27PM
That is the about the only thing that makes sense with TMB and Runaway's posting history. If they are real US citizens then it is pretty sad how much they resemble astroturfing trolls.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 20 2018, @05:07AM
I was just pointing out that you'd get more bang for your immorality buck by killing than stealing.
Beats me, man. I haven't given a damn about the NFL since Montana retired. Now if you want to talk Longhorns vs. Sooners next year, that's another matter entirely.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday December 18 2018, @10:48PM (2 children)
Short supply for who? Definitely not the developed world. And if everyone else were as agriculturally productive, the waste would be irrelevant.
A key problem with your post, and it's a common one is that waste is inherent in a post-scarcity world. If it's too cheap to meter, then it's too cheap to care whether every bit gets used or not.
Why? I find it interesting how poorly justified this claim is.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @11:19PM (1 child)
And if everyone else were as agriculturally productive, the waste would be irrelevant.
Well they would be, if not for little things like this happening every day [npr.org]. But I guess that's irrelevant to you, because I mentioned it above.
I'm wasting my time (my choice I guess). I just can't argue with such a strong appeal to authority. You're just one of those people who won't look past their nose. You are so... primal!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Wednesday December 19 2018, @04:38AM
You would be correct. Somalia is routinely used as the example of what happens when society/government breaks down. That's because there aren't many examples of that out there. Even if those war events happens every day, it's in Somalia, not most of the world.
There has been no appeal to authority fallacy here aside from your first post where you handwaved about "the powerful forces that act upon all of us". And where's the evidence that I didn't look past my nose? Waste, for example, is an inevitable consequence of a post-scarcity economy. It would be better in this case to man up and understand why your argument stunk rather than this feeble face save.
To summarize, you claimed that we had already achieved post-scarcity society, but it didn't appear that way due to deliberate waste. I pointed out that waste would be inherent in any post-scarcity society. That's because there's no economic need to insure that almost all food (or other relevant goods) gets used as intended. As to the claim that capitalism requires dependency and scarcity, there's plenty of evidence that is false in unmetered goods and services today. Nor did you state why you held that belief.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:15AM (4 children)
I'm not taking it personally, by the way. I'm mildly disappointed in humanity not shouting woe is me.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:34PM (3 children)
I'm mildly disappointed in humanity not shouting woe is me.
Why should they? It could be worse. Considering what we come from, I'd say we're doing ok for the short time we have been here. This whole confrontation between society and its individuals will sort itself out one way or another. And after thinking about for a while I would say on the whole we're getting better. But we still have extremely relevant evolutionary issues that everybody is dismissing out of hand. This 'rebellious' thing we're going through is just an adolescent phase. Everything does scale. They say it started when we began to write things down. Maybe Europe is right, maybe we should learn to forget [newscientist.com]. Not that we should be forced to by some tyrant mob though.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday December 19 2018, @07:12PM (2 children)
I believe he was missing a comma there.
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 19 2018, @07:26PM
:-) Yes, I assumed that. He seems to lament the human condition. Too much TV perhaps. But to tell the truth about the comma, I wouldn't have known better myself.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 20 2018, @05:25AM
I try to get missing punctuation out of my system in comments; it's a lot more painful in source code.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by shortscreen on Monday December 17 2018, @10:08PM (14 children)
If you are complaning that the previous thread was not to your satisfaction, I guess you want to hear more about it.
Healthcare is not a right, it's a service, just like getting your car fixed. Not everybody has a broken-down car, not everybody has cancer, and people who do have those things have no right to command a mechanic/oncologist to provide a service to them. But as long as the service is available, the question remains as to whether the government should pay for it.
Saying that healthcare is a human right is an argument without substance. But there are plenty of other arguments in favor of publicly-funded healthcare (as well as arguments opposing it). Some of these were already mentioned in your other thread. (I didn't read the whole thing.)
potential benefits of public funding:
1) Reducing the overhead costs of billing and insurance middlemen (notice I said reducing, not eliminating)
2) Reducing costs via preventive care or early treatment
3) Price negotiation (that could go either way, really)
4) Opportunity to gather unbiased nationwide data on treatments/outcomes
5) Suppressing communicable diseases
6) Removing the cost and regulatory burden from employers having to cover it
That's ignoring the question of whether you have any responsibility or concern for the people who would benefit from it. Maybe you would say that you don't, but there probably is a group of people that you feel responsibility or concern for which includes at least one person. Maybe it also includes your friends, family, business associates, favorite baseball player, or whoever. Can you imagine a scenario where one of these people would benefit directly from public funding? Or what if a person moved from one group to the other? It would be a shame if your future friend or gay lover died from complications of tetanus to save money on medical bills before you ever met them.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday December 17 2018, @11:29PM (11 children)
Which I would have very much liked to hear earlier and still interests me. I'm perfectly willing to consider any solid argument but that is the key; it must be able to withstand all scrutiny and rational debate. Anything I am able to rationally call bullshit on is not a position I want to hold. Why would I want to? Why would anyone want to?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @11:43PM (1 child)
trololololol
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:02AM
Really? You genuinely can't do any better than that?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @04:58AM (8 children)
Maybe you should see your logic from another POV [youtube.com]. I brought it up previously. I guess you decided that was offtopic also.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @01:58PM (7 children)
If your initial premise in a thread isn't related, I generally don't read the rest of the thread. I may occasionally miss good content but it saves a lot of time.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:37PM (6 children)
Just makes me think you want to editorialize, not discuss. That's cool...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @04:07PM (5 children)
If you had a point to make that didn't involve redefining the word "rights", which was specifically defined as it was to avoid confusion from multiple definitions, I'm all ears. If you need a new definition of that word to make your point, your point wasn't related to the reason I posted that entry. I was looking for people to put forth their best arguments for why I should back their position on healthcare so I could see if there was any merit to that position to be found.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @06:04PM (4 children)
So, you are more interested in law, not 'rights'. Or are 'rights' only defined by law? Damn! Come to think of it, they are... Without respect, you need your gun to enforce them.
On healthcare, our society has no reason to deny it to anybody. Everybody still gets paid. You're playing the bureaucrat's game. You're arguing over who does the paperwork. And you seem to believe in zero-sum, that you have to lose for somebody else to gain. Plus you are thinking only, instead of primarily, of yourself.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:17PM (3 children)
You're not listening, man. I wanted to discuss healthcare and needed everyone to be meaning the same thing when they used a word. If you want to argue about the nature of rights, I'm down with that. Let's do it somewhere I'm not trying to have an entirely different conversation though.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday December 18 2018, @11:06PM (2 children)
You mean you weren't talking about healthcare as a "right"? Oh damn! I must be having a stroke! Maybe MDC can invite me if he gets a 2 for 1 on his next CAT scan.
And I guess I'll say it again, healthcare is an essential service that our society can provide to everybody at a very low cost. Your complaints are irrational. There's no logical argument to them. They are out of pure spite for the 'lower' economic strata.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:49AM (1 child)
Your reading comprehension is abysmal on this, man. Slow down, lose your preconceptions, try reading again. I laid out the logic very clearly and your answer was to change the definition of a word I'd defined for clarity's sake so that you could disagree. Then your disagreement took the form of a rambling rant about might making right, which has nothing at all to do with what I was trying to discuss. You're either very confused or deliberately clouding things to troll me. I'll assume the former for the moment but there comes a point where I can't help but assume the latter.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday December 19 2018, @06:25PM
Well, maybe it's your definitions that are incomprehensible and make no sense. And how I am clouding things is a real mystery. On the contrary, I'm just trying to clear out the political cruft, it's like a cataract.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:43AM (1 child)
Maybe that's the problem, that they and the government went into that line of work to become rich. Specifically I'm claiming its a nonsense claim, like declaring that people visiting soup kitchens have no claim on the labor of kitchen workers, or kitties at the humane society have no right to command a volunteer to pet them. Or that parishioners of a church have no right to command the prayers of their fellow church goers. Its just kinda a nonsense question IF and only IF the purpose of the system is to provide health not to squeeze wealth out of the middle class or act as a stealth tax.
The most rational argument I can come up with is the value of property is higher if those who live there are healthy and taken care of, so much like DOT and cops and firemen and public libraries aren't free but are required, so should hospitals.
The most pleasing argument I can come up with is the classic national socialist argument where making the nation (or race) healthier is, in itself, an inherent good for the race (or nation), much like protecting national borders or putting out forest fires.
If everyone were a productive member of society or they were not in society anymore (see national socialism) then the only difference between a million employers negotiating benefits vs one union (government?) negotiating, is fewer corrupt middlemen and more money and labor used for productive work. Inherent in the assumption of "I'm not paying for everyone else" is the assumption that only half or a third of the population is paying for a bunch of freeloaders, which seems to be the goal of the new world order, impoverish the white race by getting them to pay for other groups who won't bother to or can't productively work. Sort of a "work will set you free" mentality. Huh.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:09PM
Interesting point. Not quite a convincing one but interesting.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 17 2018, @11:49PM (16 children)
I saw a few reasonable discussions amid the poo flinging, which discussion was worthwhile to you?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:02AM (15 children)
Bullshit question after your massive pattern of trolling over the past week. Get someone who isn't full of shit to ask it and I'll answer.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @12:21AM (14 children)
Awww you really are triggered.
I have yet to troll you once, but I guess that is the reaction I should expect from a man-child being called out. I was actually curious what you found valuable as it might inform future discussions with other people.
Keep it real TMB! Don't let your own bullshit tie you down forever.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday December 18 2018, @04:37AM (6 children)
The guy's irredeemable, don't you get it yet? He will never change. Stop replying to him and his topics. Choke him out. He's basically a vampire and he feeds off of peoples' responses.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @05:20PM (5 children)
Yes i know, mostly i just point out when he is being stupop id. It takes too much energy though and i think these last 2 entries have made his behavior pretty clear. I think ill leave the little troll alone for a bit, see if anyone else wants to get their hands covered in bird poop.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 19 2018, @04:47AM (4 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:40PM (3 children)
Haha no, it was no game, Just because he has the emotional temperament of a child and consistently shuts people down with his bullshit is not my fault. I just point out his bullshit because it drags down the level of discussion as he works to filter out any views he does not like.
The irony is beautifully disgusting.
khallow I must admit that while you have a serious agenda you stick to but overall you actually engage in real discussion. TMB rarely does and he frequently bullies people. The ball is always in his court, when he stops making shitty replies I'll stop pointing it out.
I actually wanted to know what he found useful because a significant portion of the US has similar beliefs, so I wanted to know what aspects were actually constructive regarding universal healthcare.
Keep playing the persecution card though, it gives me zero enjoyment watching the flakes fall!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:44PM
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=29072&commentsort=0&mode=threadtos&threshold=-1&highlightthresh=-1&page=1&cid=774042#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 20 2018, @01:22AM (1 child)
There we go again. Let's review:
AC harasser accuses TMB of bullying? Who here actually buys that?
I've seen this concern trolling pattern of bait-and-switch before both on others and on me. A sincere-sounding post kicks it off. Then once the scheme is revealed, it's sophomoric attacks and ridicule. It's not bullying to be offended by this.
And let's face it. TMB's call was good. Your posts weren't worth the effort of a good faith reply.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 20 2018, @05:47PM
Oh the irony is sweet. Of course most of my posts dont merit a serious reply because they are on the level of whatever bullshit you or TMB is trying to pass as "real" discussion. At least you khallow make some real effort for discussions, TMB deserves no slack for his continued douchery.
Loving this lack of self-awareness and hypocritical criticism though. Superb!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @02:10PM (6 children)
Dude, if you're not trolling you massively suck at arguing. I'd own the trolling if I were you and save a tiny bit of face.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @05:05PM (5 children)
English motjerfucker! Do you speak it?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:21PM (4 children)
Wow, down to quoting movie lines when they don't even make sense in context? Dude...
I suggest a cross-training regimen at both one of the chans and slashdot. Between the different aspects of those two you should be ready to take the training wheels off in a year or two.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 18 2018, @07:54PM (3 children)
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 19 2018, @04:49AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday December 19 2018, @11:56AM (1 child)
Yeah, this is a great place to learn as well but you don't dump grade school kids in calculus and expect them to gain anything. You need to possess the lower level skills before you're going to be able to acquire what we can teach here.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:45PM
Oh man I actually lold at that one. I think this might be your masterpiece.
Gonna print this out for the break room fridge, managed to get a few coworkers lurking SN.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:36PM (6 children)
See, with the way you posed the question, I don't think you left much scope for anything worth saying. Essentially, you seem to want someone to tell you ways in which universal healthcare will benefit someone exactly like you with the caveat that it's something that you seem (at least ideologically) to want nothing to do with (because I'm assuming you identify with the person "who is forced [...] to pay for services they neither requested nor received the benefits of"). You're stipulating right at the start that such people do not receive "the benefits of" the healthcare policy, and tugs at heartstrings are forbidden, so it's pretty much a tautology that such people will not benefit at all from universal healthcare!
So, as I see it, you'd pretty much closed your own case before the discussion even began. Any benefits we suggest of universal healthcare will, by definition, only benefit people that receive the benefits of it (as you put it), so we can only justify it in terms of their wellbeing, unless we start to consider feelings of empathy from the other individuals--but you've dismissed such arguments as "tugs at [...] heartstrings".
Perhaps you were hoping someone could spot a logical flaw in your reasoning--perhaps that the majority of people do in fact benefit from universal healthcare, perhaps including yourself. Some people have suggested some pretty good advantages (preventive care, reducing spread of diseases, helping others you do care about, etc). Anyway, if you're willing to look for logical flaws or oversights in your own reasoning then why do you discourage attempts at such scrutiny with warnings like "Without muddying the waters with imprecise, outright wrong, or just plain bullshit terminology"? What's the point in saying that? There aren't many people on here that will knowingly write something that's "outright wrong". No-one thinks what they say is bullshit, unless they're being satirical or knowingly shilling. It's not exactly the most welcoming way to open a rational debate, is it?
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 19 2018, @08:48PM
Spot. On.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Thursday December 20 2018, @01:36AM
Because these semantics fallacies happen all the time. Assert health care is a urgent human right, then there's no point to the discussion. Either you agree, or you don't and are evil and not worth speaking to. The key here is that speaking of this as a "right" is fundamentally broken semantically and logically. For example, we have questions with no obvious answer: What level of health care is a right? Why is having access to health care that you pay for not sufficient for this alleged right? What happens when this right can't be paid for (a place where the entire developed world, not just the US, is heading towards)? Why does the right override other would-be rights like the right to keep your wealth or the right not to pay for medical procedures that neither benefit you in any way or even offend your religious beliefs? These things aren't thought out, but merely assumed true.
Surely, even if we play TMB's game and use common terminology rather than inventing rights, we can argue the value of paying via taxes for universal medical care, right? Because our argument is based on sound logic and reasoning not abuse of the English language, right?
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 20 2018, @05:18AM (3 children)
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted. If you cannot make a valid case to me of why I should support it despite it looking like a big government monstrosity at first glance, I've got no reason in the world to do so. See, there's this fundamental aspect of convincing someone of something; they always start off not agreeing with you. They may or may not have a position already but they do not share yours. If they did, you would be trading "me too!"s rather than convincing anyone.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Thursday December 20 2018, @10:30AM (2 children)
Then there is no discussion. If you're already so sure that universal healthcare is something that will not benefit you, and your own liberty is more important to you than the health of other citizens, then there is no way I can sell it to you as a concept. You might be interested in whether it might be a more cost-effective option for you to use than private healthcare or to be convinced of the benefits of those around you being free of infectious diseases, but for me those points are far less compelling than the ethical argument for universal healthcare. You forbade ethical arguments, so we have nothing to discuss. Give yourself a pat on the back, Buzz. You "won".
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday December 20 2018, @12:15PM (1 child)
Yes, you might have tried those arguments. You would have gotten some traction. Why didn't you? If you can only convince people who already think like you, you can't really convince anyone at all. If you can't convince anyone, your position should be viewed by everyone, yourself included, as extremely suspect.
And I didn't bar emotional arguments to win, I barred them to save anyone wasting their time. It's extremely difficult to use reason to change anyone's mind on a position that is fundamentally based in something entirely unreasonable. Which emotions are.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by acid andy on Thursday December 20 2018, @05:07PM
Because they were already raised by other people and they miss the key point of my own view. My view is that universal healthcare is justified by the Utilitarian argument alone of reducing suffering in a society. Matters of cost effectiveness and incidental benefits are a secondary consideration to this.
No. If you can't muster sufficient empathy for the greater suffering of a stranger in poor health who could have been healed by a lesser amount of discomfort inflicted on you via a small amount of taxation, then I cannot help you. That doesn't mean my argument is "extremely suspect". There will always be some individuals that reject the Utilitarian position. I'm not an evangelist trying to convert everyone to my way of thinking. There may be some readers however that are still developing their own ethical code and political views that may benefit from reading these discussions. A democracy only needs a majority to support such a policy for it to be put in place. It's attitudes like yours that make compulsory taxation necessary because they mean that charity is insufficient to support a basic level of care for all citizens.
If you have a desire to opt out of such a system, I do have some sympathy for that. That's why I feel all taxation should be income based and the taxation on a minimum survival income should be nil. If you want to opt out of society and become completely self sufficient, I don't have any objection to that.
Anyway, I haven't completely given up on trying to defend compassionate systems of ethics like Utilitarianism to you rationally. This subject has been discussed a lot here already by myself and others. Often just when we seem to be getting somewhere, you seem to lose interest. I'll gladly discuss it again soon, but now and this thread are not the time and place.
A Merry Winter Solstice everyone!
Master of the science of the art of the science of art.