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acid andy (1683)
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Rationalistic, dualistic, vegan, cynical, scientific hippie
I could be on dangerous ground writing about this topic on here. I thought of making another account to post it, but the way I feel now, just fuck it.
This is a sort of Ask Soylent I suppose. To those Soylentils in a long term relationship, how do you divide up the housework between yourself and your partner? If the arrangement was explicitly and mutually agreed, how was that negotiated and was it a source of friction?
There are obvious daily tasks like cleaning, cooking and tidying, but it's important not to forget all the other types of work that contribute towards a household's wellbeing. Paid work, gardening, repairs of household items, and one that often gets brought up: managing it all, making appointments, keeping stock of what needs doing, keeping track of finances, the so-called "mental load". If you have kids and/or pets that could of course significantly increase the effort required! Are every one of these contributions and the time and energy they take up weighed up fairly by both partners such that each is satisfied with the other's contribution, or do some of these things get ignored (or emphasized) to fuel long, exasperating arguments about who does more?
How many hours a day do you find you are spending on every kind of work? How many would you say your partner is doing? Do you find your hobbies have morphed into things that double as being useful to your household? C'mon don't be shy, you can always post anonymously.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by turgid on Sunday August 07 2022, @07:56PM (8 children)
It depends very much on the people involved. Also, I would not like to get into a war about gender stereotyping an "men's" and "women's" work. However, to give you a little insight, Mrs Turgid is 99% in charge of laundry. I can use a washing machine. I can hang clothes on a washing line or a clothes horse and I can use a tumble dryer. I'll wager I can even put things on top of radiators to try if the need arises.
When I was growing up I was fiercely independent and didn't want to be "one of those men" who needed a captive female domestic subordinate to perform chores. I learned how to use a washing machine before I started secondary school. I was familiar with washing up by hand and how to use a dishwasher. I could cook to an acceptable level. I knew how to use a vacuum cleaner. Dusting I wasn't much for though. My bath and shower cleaning skills are pretty good but I don't utilise them quite as frequently as I should.
I was all set for a life of manly solitude and robust pioneering independence when I met Mrs Turgid who I subsequently discovered had opinions on my laundry abilities. Needless to say, I don't put things on the clothes horse quite right, I don't turn things over often enough and I put the wrong things in the tumble dryer. Only this weekend I discovered that putting a load of bed sheets in together requires advanced skills and extra diligence. You have to keep untangling them every few minutes.
Mrs Turgid takes care of the spiders. I put up flat-pack furniture and shelves and so on, and write the shell scripts.
I hope that helps.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 07 2022, @09:55PM
You've given a good example of how the partners often have different priorities for the work that needs doing as well as different requirements or standards for some of the tasks. This can also give rise to differing opinions on how long should be spent on a given task.
This can work out OK if both partners have enough time and energy to happily do most of the tasks on both of their "most important" task lists. You gave the example of Mrs Turgid having certain expectations about the laundry. Perhaps Mr Turgid has certain expectations about the configuration of the firewall (or perhaps I'm gender stereotyping and Mrs Turgid is an even bigger techie geek than Mr Turgid!). When it starts to get tricky is when the available time and energy becomes insufficient to achieve most of both partners' must-do tasks; unless both partners are so easy going that they can let almost everything slide, it can start to cause conflicting expectations and then arguments. If the arguments happen often this can exacerbate the situation because time and energy that could be spent on the tasks is instead wasted on arguing about them!This seems to be especially prone to happen when there's financial hardship because the couple has to take on more and more things themselves that they could otherwise pay someone else to do.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 08 2022, @12:06AM (3 children)
This, exactly.
In the early years, I was diligent about doing "my share". When the babies were in diapers especially, I fed, bathed, and pampered them, and did the laundry, and all the rest of keeping a home with babies in it.
Over the years, I got into trouble many times, because I didn't do something right. It's easier on both of us if I just stay out of her way, and let her fuss with whatever.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @01:40AM (2 children)
Count yourself very, very lucky if that outcome hasn't led to resentment.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @02:55AM (1 child)
Even if it has, there is a fair chance he'd never know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @05:56PM
The resentment will fester for many years and be brought out with a list of all crimes ever committed when there's something important to argue about.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @12:56AM (2 children)
One possible solution that works here. When the dryer is full, I just run it for a short cycle. At the end (there is a cycle-end-buzzer) I shuffle the contents and run a second short cycle, that seems to get everything dry with a minimum of fuss and bother.
(Score: 1) by Runaway1956 on Monday August 08 2022, @01:12AM (1 child)
Another possible solution: Buy a dryer with much more capacity than your washer. The effect is, your dryer should never be full, leaving lots of room for bulky stuff to tumble.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @01:19AM
> Buy a dryer with much more capacity than your washer.
No thanks on buying anything new in the laundry department.
The ~25 year old Maytag dryer that came when we bought the house (~10 years ago) is one that I can fix. No computers or other fancy electronics, parts are cheap online, and I've been able to fix a few different issues with little difficulty.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Sunday August 07 2022, @10:05PM (1 child)
I clean the bathroom because my wife hates cleaning toilets: I was the one that did the really bad diapers because i gagged less and when my daughter and i had Norwalk, we were both throwing up, but one time she didn't make it to the toilet in time and i had to clean it up while throwing up myself because my wife couldn't do it.
But my wife dusts, 'cos i just don't understand dusting (except my computers, lol).
And my wife does most of the care with my son (severely autistic) because she grew up learning babysitting, etc and i haven't a clue half the time (when he throws a fit, what do you do? You step back and let the wife take over... much less stressful on all of us!).
We both do laundry, but i do, basically, the Kondo thing while she doesn't, so we share the folding.
We both vacuum, but she does it mostly so she won't have to re-do it after i do it.
We both cook, but she usually has more time for it than i do with working as i do.
I think we basically divide it up by specialty: she does what she can do and i do what i do.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Monday August 08 2022, @06:17AM
I couldn't agree more! See my own comment down the page.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @01:35AM (1 child)
My wife insists she does more than I do but she leaves a mess. She makes a mess while she works. Why not clean up after yourself? It just makes things more difficult for the other person otherwise.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @02:42AM
Similar here, but grousing about it (or even discussing) is not productive. She does plenty of good things for me and the household, so I make a point of clearing her little messes (like breakfast dishes left in the sink) as a matter of course. I suspect she does similar for me and whatever I leave around that bothers her.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday August 08 2022, @06:16AM (6 children)
When my late wife was alive and well, it was a simple matter. We had both had independent lives before getting married. We had both been responsible for all the jobs (except for child rearing!) in a house and therefore we didn't feel the need to 'divide' jobs into his or hers. If a job needed doing and we were capable of doing it - we just did it. It would only be a problem if one person sat doing nothing while the other was trying to cope with a huge workload, and we never found that happening. I can iron, cook, do housework, and manage a house just as well as my wife could. Some tasks might be done differently, some might not even be done quite as well but at least they were acceptable. If you are both committing 100% to the relationship, including the chores, then you are both doing exactly the same amount of work - regardless of any differences in how much that 100% can achieve.
My wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2003. Initially it was just a name for a medical condition - it did not affect her life significantly. Over time this changed, first of all she had to walk with a stick/cane, then she lost the ability to drive a manual car and we had to change to an automatic, and subsequently she lost the ability to drive that too. But there were many things that she could do - and she didn't want sympathy or unnecessary help. She did what she could - but importantly said when there was something that was beyond her capabilities at that point in her life. Her eyesight deteriorated, she became dependent on her wheelchair, she could no longer write but she could type slowly on her computer. Nevertheless. we were both contributing 100% of what we were capable of doing, although the division of tasks changed.
In the last 5 years or so of her life (she passed in 2021) she couldn't even take care of herself terribly well, let alone contribute much to the household chores. But that didn't mean that she stopped helping. She continued to do all those things that she could even though it might take her much longer now to do them. Importantly, she was still there as my wife, providing love, support, humour and an inspiration to me on how to behave in the face of adversity, and my task list grew to include taking care of her, preparing special meals, helping to feed her etc. There was no resentment. We were both giving 100% of what we could do. Some jobs would just have to wait until tomorrow....
My take on this is that one should try to avoid delegating tasks to one person or another, but divide 'effort' between both of you. Nobody can do more than they are capable of doing, and that might change over time, or even on a daily basis. Marriage or having a partner is much more than just a 'working' relationship - you are sharing lives not just household chores.
You may disagree, this is just my point of view and it worked for us/me for 30 years or more. Now I am on my own again I still have to give 100% of effort to running my home. But as I grow older there are some jobs that I cannot do. I either have to employ somebody else, get friends and family to help, or simply accept that some parts of the garden, for example, just will not be as well tended as they were several decades ago.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday August 08 2022, @02:17PM (5 children)
I'm sorry for your loss (and as a socially inept nerd, i hope that is a proper response).
My wife (who has leukemia) finds she can't do what she used to but still does what she can, which frustrates her immensely.
We were just in Niagara Falls and the walking around Clifton Hill, etc, tired her out. A. lot. But she kept going for our son.
In life, as adults, you do what you have to do, then you do what you want to do, all the while doing what you can.
Enjoy your garden. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 4, Informative) by janrinok on Monday August 08 2022, @02:56PM
Your words were more than adequate and I appreciated reading them. Thank you.
I hope that your wife can overcome her leukemia and that you, as family, can continue to build memories of the things that you can do - and did!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 09 2022, @02:53AM (3 children)
How is she doing, BTW? Last I recall, her counts were reasonable and she was trying acalabrutinib. Are her platelets holding? What about starting other treatment modalities or new interventions?
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 09 2022, @05:12PM (2 children)
She's doing well and her blood-work is good, so far.
She had to stop taking the Calquence for a week when she got covid in order to take the Anti-viral and we haven't had a blood-work done since, but she still seems good.
So far, knock on my head, everything seems a-okay!
Spanks for asking! :)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2022, @02:39AM (1 child)
That's good to hear. I hope her platelets stabilized because I know that can be a scary situation to live with. If you haven't redone the blood work or pathology, I'll assume a lack of serious acute symptoms and that is a very good sign especially after a viral infection like SARS-CoV-2. As the wise Red Green once put it, "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10 2022, @11:21AM
Fun! Found this short Red Green vid, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB0MbTKENfA [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Freeman on Monday August 08 2022, @02:51PM (4 children)
Neither of us likes to clean, but we make it work.
Generally, wife has issues with doing the toilets, so that's a me thing. She had a part-time job for a while and I ended up helping out a bit more with household chores during that time. Also, when baby was a baby, we muddled through as best we could. We've both struggled with melancholic outlooks throughout our marriage. Not anything to do with either one of us. More of a we're all broken in some way or fashion kind of thing. We're getting our act together, though. Having a kid and doing your best to make sure they have a good upbringing, kind of changes your focus. It also gives you reason to change and to think of someone other than yourself.
#1 Best gift for wife with regards to helping with chores, etc. Also known as the gift that keeps on giving and probably a really great present for oneself. A robotic vacuum. Seriously, the floors got neglected more than just about anything. What pushed me towards a robotic vacuum, was seeing one in use. We have a "dumb" robotic vacuum that I got from Goodwill. It was $20 or so and didn't come with a charger. They did have the charging base station, though. I spent more on the charger from e-bay than either piece separately. Similar to this: https://www.amazon.com/iRobot-Roomba-614-Robot-Vacuum/dp/B07VJQG6FN/ [amazon.com] Except for a 2018 model. The thing just bounces around the room and eventually gets the entire floor due to the fact that it just keeps going. Even the 3 year old model we have, runs for 90 minutes at a whack.
Reasons why I love the robotic vacuum. You make sure the floor is picked up and have reason to keep it picked up. Essentially, you help yourself, so the machine can help you. But, once you've got cords, etc. out of the way. You turn it on and you forget about it. Sure, you may want to keep an eye on it, so it doesn't get stuck. Also, good to make sure it can't get stuck under something. My wife blocks off certain areas, so it can't escape and cause havoc elsewhere in the house. Especially, if kiddo's room isn't picked up. She also makes sure it doesn't go in the bathroom, because she really doesn't like the idea of it going in there and all through the rest of the house.
Still, since we got that thing, we've had a much more picked up house and much cleaner floors. Which has been a very good thing. Wife has stated that it makes her feel good to be able to just turn it on and not need to worry about the floors. I tend to have to agree. It's one of the few modern inventions that help you with chores and just does it's thing without you needing to do a bunch of stuff to make it work.
Dishwasher: You just about have to clean the dishes, before putting them in the dishwasher to begin with. Helpful, but still requires a lot of hands on work.
Washing Machine and Dryer: Okay, sure they save you from a lot of manual labor, but you still have to sort the clothes, load them, and fold them. The basic technology hasn't changed for many years and isn't automated.
Robotic Vacuum: Does a "good enough" job for most people. Does require you to keep your floor picked up. (Something you should have been doing anyway!) Set it and forget it.
TL;DR:
Robotic Vacuum is amazing. Get it. Use it. Love it.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 4, Informative) by Freeman on Monday August 08 2022, @03:05PM (3 children)
This is essentially the exact thing we got: https://www.amazon.com/ILIFE-Robotic-Powerful-Tangle-free-Planning/dp/B06Y56NDF4/ [amazon.com]
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 09 2022, @05:33PM (2 children)
We're planning on putting hardwood flooring in upstairs: have to keep this in mind. Thanks!
I hate carpets.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday August 09 2022, @10:02PM (1 child)
My parents just got some sort of irobot/Roomba and it seems to do fine. They don't have shaggy carpet, though.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday August 22 2022, @05:01PM
Quick update, after having used it for maybe a month or so, it started causing them problems. Yet to be resolved, but should be under warranty anyways. They were pleased with it while it was functional. They have some hard floors and some carpet. My house has a couple of rugs on all hard floors.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Funny) by cmdrklarg on Monday August 08 2022, @07:03PM
Get a divorce; that way things are done the way you want, including not at all. :)
Answer now is don't give in; aim for a new tomorrow.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 08 2022, @08:52PM
I do everything my wife asks me to do, and she does everything I ask her to do.
I cook what I like. She hates most of that, so she dines on take-out.
That - and now that we are older, we pay for maid and yard services.
You wish you could be me.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by donkeyhotay on Monday August 08 2022, @09:49PM
My wife lived alone for 20 years after her divorce. I lived alone for 16 years after mine. Neither of us ever expected to be married again, but destiny had other ideas and here we are. We both like to live in a clean, fairly orderly home and each of us is very independent and perfectly capable of handling domestic chores like cooking, cleaning, maintenance and management of the home. Early on we butted heads a few times, not because things were not getting done, but because each of us were used to doing everything. We've settled into a good routine. She doesn't work and actually seems to enjoy laundry and cooking. And I make sure that I am around to fold and put away laundry and clean up the kitchen. And each of us still thank each other for help. We have a housekeeper who comes in every couple of weeks and does a major clean and I have a lawn guy that takes care of most of the outdoor work. There is very little conflict over domestic chores and if either one of us is sick or otherwise incapacitated we pick up the slack. I don't know why things work so well for us, but I do think that these skills and the motivation to get daily chores done is a learned behavior.