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turgid (4318)
I'm worried, What happened to the lessons of the last century? I had a grandmother who lived through both world wars and lived to own and use a smartphone.
Much important history has faded from living memory. We mock, harass and intimidate our historians and philosophers.
We for get the optimism and courage of our parents' generation who stood up for civil rights, equality and social justice. We look the other way as hard-won rights are eroded. We sit idly by while we let tyrants exploit us and dismantle our democratic structures and rob us of our sustenance.
At times like these I turn to popular music for inspiration and wisdom. I would like to share one particular retrospectively enthusiastic piece I've recently discovered from more optimistic times and I'd like to think it hasn't been in vain quite yet. We are still the human race.
It's by Montrose (also a Scottish town) and is called Space Station #5 and goes like this:
Start, with the sun
And move on out
The future's in the skies above
The heavens unfold
And a new star is born
Space and time makin' love
Now, I'm sure that's the sort of thing Homer Simpson had on his 8 track in his car back in the day.
I don't care. It's much better than war.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 11 2022, @11:27PM (1 child)
This is a test of the emergency optimism system.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @02:20AM
If it had been a real emergency, you would have been instructed to place your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 11 2022, @11:45PM (13 children)
Why do elites love war? It gives them more money, more power, and less scrutiny. It's not like *their* kids will be dying or suffering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @01:05AM (2 children)
There must be an election coming.
Right wingers within the Australian government are urging the United States to drag us into a war with either Russia or China.
Australia already lost a war in Crimea back in the 19th century under the command of their colonial masters and now Biden.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:19PM (1 child)
I'm sure if we just give Putan and Xi some breathing room they'll settle down and we can have peace in our time.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @09:03PM
They've learned their lesson, I beleve they won't make the same mistakes again.
Sincerely,
Susan
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:15PM (9 children)
Make those leaders die for their country.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @09:29PM (8 children)
Difficulty: The warmonger is in Russia and the people around him benefit from his crimes.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @01:11AM (7 children)
Well look, we have to start somewhere. We can get the permanent socialist revolution started in the USA since the fascists aren't giving us much other choice, and then we'll liberate Russia and restore the USSR. Happy?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @03:02PM (6 children)
Start with the problem, kid. It's not the USA who put 100+k troops on the Ukraine's border.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @04:11PM (5 children)
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/10/europe/nato-troops-eastern-europe-map-intl-cmd/index.html [cnn.com]
All of that from CNN, one of the socialist/dem/progressive mouthpieces.
Your narrative gets old, when the facts don't support it.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @04:46PM (4 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:11PM (3 children)
Are you good at geography? US troops are deployed 3000+ miles from home, in their "defensive" positions. Russian troops are in Russia. And, we are perfectly willing to fight this fight to the last Ukrainian. Go ahead, take a look at a map, or better yet, a globe. Find Washington, D.C. and measure the distance to our most defensive troops in Europe. Now measure the distance from Moscow, to their most advanced troops. Clearly, the Russians are the aggressors!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:27PM (2 children)
Indeed, but it sounds like you might need some serious help with military matters. Because Russia is the ones lining up on the Ukraine border with enough troops to invade and take the Ukraine while US doesn't have anywhere near what it would take to credibly invade Russia. But maybe those 12k NATO troops are going to kick ass all the way to Moscow in a surprise invasion, right?
And while the US is likely the biggest contributor, there are other countries involved with shorter distances to their troops.
Pull my other finger!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @07:38PM (1 child)
Good God, Khallow - the US and NATO has more than enough troops to invade and take Ukraine and Crimea - if Russia were to sit idly by. Go ahead though, pretend that we pose no threat whatsoever to Russian interests.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:31PM
Where are these troops again? Why would Ukraine also sit idly by? And technically, if nobody was here, then some dude with a flag could take the whole world.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @12:24AM
Just a few years before Montrose was formed, try the first Jefferson Starship album, Blows Against the Empire, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blows_Against_the_Empire#Concept [wikipedia.org] Never gets old for me.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @01:00AM (21 children)
About 3-4 years until the global nuclear exchange now. Make the most of them. After the bombs fell, around 4 billion people died of starvation and other complications during the year of hell. Crops failed worldwide.
It's not the end of humanity. It's more like the bronze age collapse. Life will go on.
I don't think there's anything that can be done to stop it, unless the international working class organizes and uses its immense political power to put an end to this madness.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @03:08AM (3 children)
What international working class?
What we have now is serfdom by fawning over rich elites such as Trump, Musk, Bezos, Gates and Murdoch.
Do you think the Kim Cardassian generation are going to start a revolution? They're too busy trying to find a sugar daddy/momma on TikTok.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @04:27AM
You're absolutely correct. We're fucked. I don't know if I want to live to see the post-atomic horror.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:19PM (1 child)
I get my sugar babies from the grocer.
https://www.tootsie.com/candy/sugar-babies/sugar-babies [tootsie.com]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @09:12AM
Always love comments on international relations from former, (no longer, not for a long time) supply clerks in the floating forces. Almost as good as stratergy from a former Kaiser forces corporal, or an Italian bersagliere (corporal, as well). Keep trying, Faux News spouting fascist Runaway! Jews will not replace Tucker Tarlson! Hardly ever!
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @03:20AM (3 children)
I don't think anyone in the US or Europe would make it out alive - we're too clustered in cities, and every population center will be a target, if only to destroy manufacturing capability. Whoever's on the other end (Russia, China, or both) probably wouldn't fare any better. Would India be involved? Japan? There's enough nukes to take care of them all, so might as well scratch them off. All that's left is Africa, South America, and a few islands, maybe. Time to migrate!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @03:59AM (2 children)
It depends how much dust and ash blows around the planet and how long it takes to settle out of the atmosphere. Could be a year [wikipedia.org]. Maybe not as much will reach the southern hemisphere and they would still have a harvest. Time of year would be a factor as well in the severity of the year of hell.
City dwellers are completely doomed. It might not be the blast itself but the firestorm will get them. But that's a small part of the entire death toll.
Relevant documentaries:
The War Game (1965) [BluRay] [1080p] [YTS.AM] [magnet]
Threads 1984 [magnet]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:22PM
Not a documentary, but definitely worthy of mention.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053137/ [imdb.com]
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38180.On_the_Beach [goodreads.com]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:06PM
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:26PM (3 children)
Truck on brother!
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:00PM (2 children)
hey hey hey
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @04:47PM (1 child)
I said keep on truckin'
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @05:08PM
Truckin' my blues away!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 13 2022, @08:30AM (7 children)
We both know that's not going to happen in this timeline. My main concern is, can we rebuild a technological civilization after this? I've had nightmare-scenario images of a world permanently locked into Iron Age technology, simply lacking in the concentrated and discoverable resources needed to jumpstart another Industrial Revolution afterwards. Species-wide extinction would be preferable to that.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @08:46PM
There's a lot that can be done with steam power. I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to go from a great steam age to a digital, solar-powered renaissance. Cars and jet engines might not happen again, and that wouldn't be a terrible loss imho. Mass travel over long distances would still be possible with trains.
This all could be for the best.
A big factor will be the quality of knowledge that survives from this era. If we can figure out how to help future humans regain the knowledge of present society, that could work against the nightmare scenario. Maybe we should be printing out hard copies of wikipedia and burying them across the world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @09:02PM
Steampunk can be cool, have a look at Mortal Engines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plA7N05y81M [youtube.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:25AM (3 children)
what are you talking about?
we'll always have wood to burn hot enough to work metals, and a lot of metals are easily accessible at the moment (cars and other shit).
which means early 20th century technology is easily accessible (and from there it's 100 years to today).
by "easily accessible" I mean you just need to start from stone-age technology with a couple of good books, and in one generation you should have a working steam engine if you're working with a moderately sized community.
I can understand having nightmares, but please try to use common sense in your waking hours.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:23PM (2 children)
Common sense? These are multi-generational city dwellers that don't know how to use a screwdriver, let alone *imagine* any kind of fabrication.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday February 16 2022, @03:54AM (1 child)
I do a bit of light carpentry actually :) Y'know, to keep up with the lesbian stereotypes?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 25 2022, @10:57AM
What's lesbian about a girl handling wood?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @03:06PM
Like what resource? As noted, even timber farming would get you enough energy for an industrial society. And solar cells, integrated circuits, etc aren't that hard to make even if you ignore that we would have massive supply of those things in the wake of a nuclear war.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:59AM
international working class?
what the fuck can they do against an increasingly paranoid psychopath like Putin?
Ukraine is lost in the medium term, just like Hong Kong.
nobody's gonna do anything about it.
but Putin won't solve his internal problems by taking Ukraine.
all we can hope for is that, just like the US system was able to stop trump, the russian military will be able to hold putin's circle back from the nukes if he decides that he wants to take the world with him when he's going down (in my head, he's more and more likely to end up like ghadafi or ceausescu).
because if anyone from outside russia goes in to try to take them away, the nukes will be launched.
really, the best-case scenario would be that putin somehow gives up on his ambitions of staying in power for the rest of his life, and retires by his own volition in secluded luxury. I think he could get a promise from the CIA for protection from whoever rules russia after him.
but is he still sane enough to see this?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by khallow on Saturday February 12 2022, @01:45AM (11 children)
Well, the past didn't change, those lessons are still there. What I find interesting is how vaguely written your concerns are. Who could fight this alleged war?
I gather you speak of friction between Russia and NATO over the Ukraine?
But if we're going to speak of the lessons of history, I assume we'll include the lessons of the great futility of appeasing aggressors, right?
Well, you're out of the EU due to Brexit, so that's one layer of budding tyranny that's not bothering you right now. Sure doesn't look like sitting idly to me.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @07:52PM
Oof, you hit a sore spot. That's going to leave a radiation burn.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @09:07PM (9 children)
Haha Brexit as leaving tyranny? I guess you missed the part where the lical tyrants were the ones that wanted brexit . . . .
Never fails khallow promotes tyranny in some way while claiming the opposite. Truly a marvel of modern psychology.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 12 2022, @11:46PM (7 children)
They are more local, right? And get local enough, then the only tyrant over you would be you.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @02:33AM (6 children)
Kinda like how the Scots want to leave the UK and rejoin the European Union.
They've seen the tyranny of Westminster first hand.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 13 2022, @03:48PM (5 children)
Indeed. The interesting question is why they want to replace that UK baggage with EU baggage. I'm sure there's a good reason or two in there.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @09:19PM
Read a book sometime and stop asking dumb questions.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday February 14 2022, @02:59PM (3 children)
As far as I understand it, it's somewhat like the Texas/USA situation. Except, if the USA had been trying to take over Texas for a good hundred years or more? There's a lot of history in European countries. While there may be some history in the USA, a lot of it's lost due to the main way knowledge was passed down by Native Americans was through verbal stories. Otherwise we (the invaders/foreigners/non-native americans) brought a good bit of baggage with us, but were also trying to escape some of that baggage.
In any event, there's still a good number of Scots that would rather not be part of the UK. My guess is that element (independence movement) isn't a significant portion of the population, let alone 50% or more.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 14 2022, @03:59PM (1 child)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by quietus on Thursday February 17 2022, @03:48PM
In case Scotland decides to declare independency, they're likely to go that route. Tearing away from the UK will likely come with an initial decrease in GDP, to be compensated with increased government borrowing to soften the blow. This might place Scotland in the position of not being able to reach the public spending deficit rule (at 3%), required for accession into the EU.
That rule has been breached before, though, and Scotland is looked upon favourably in general public opinion. What might be more of an obstacle is that candidates typically only have been allowed in after a lengthy accession period: abandoning that methodology might be blocked by Eastern European member states.
For an interesting further (economic/political) analysis, see here [fedtrust.co.uk].
(Score: 3, Interesting) by turgid on Wednesday February 16 2022, @10:00PM
You'd be surprised. And the more England blunders about, deaf and blind to the other nations that make up the UK, with its regressive, xenophobic, conservative, authoritarian attitude, destroying decades of progress, the more the other nations look elsewhere.
I want a Scottish passport now, and I lived in England for over 20 years. I'm back and ready to make a go of it.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @04:37PM
"Brexit was a Russian plot" say the loons who now observe Britain leading the European rally against Russia.
Yes, you are!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Mojibake Tengu on Saturday February 12 2022, @04:05AM (6 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XPzICHxXoQ [youtube.com]
https://www.musixmatch.com/lyrics/Sheldon-Allman/Crawl-Out-Through-the-Fallout [musixmatch.com]
Seriously, it's all fun:
Well, with leaders like these, who needs enemies?
I am completely prepped. Nothing more to prep. It's Fallout4 weekend then...
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @05:25PM (4 children)
We've always been our own worst enemies. Putting politicians in charge is a symptom of the disease, not the cause, but it could be much worse. We could be ruled by tyrants like Russia and China are. Representative democracy isn't a good system of government, just the best that anyone has been able to come up with.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday February 12 2022, @07:14PM (1 child)
Great post, well stated. I'm not sure what the "disease" is- perhaps innate competitiveness?
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:08PM
Competitiveness is fine as long as it motivates you to become better or improve your lot in life. The problems come when you try to make others have less, which always comes down to greed and is ultimately self destructive. Take Putin for example: Instead of building Russia up so that it (and by extension himself) becomes wealthy, he is running out of things to steal so he needs to loot his neighbours to keep the gravy train going that keeps him in power. The end game is another economic collapse like the one that brought down the Soviet Union, and all of the misery that goes with it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:08PM
Heh, if you can't rule it all, then destroy it all.
(Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Saturday February 12 2022, @11:49PM
Put anyone in charge, that is a political office, then they become a politician by definition. You can't escape your semantic shadow.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @06:14PM
Send them Mammoth hunting in Yakutia! [LAUGHS IN STALIN]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Saturday February 12 2022, @04:38AM
so long, mom, I'm off to drop the bomb [youtu.be]...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @09:48PM (1 child)
It's the new normal. Now shut up and listen to the experts!
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:10PM
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Saturday February 12 2022, @10:13PM (3 children)
https://archive.fo/6s0W3 [archive.fo]
Secure your rice and beans now.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @12:32AM (2 children)
> Secure your rice and beans ...
Remember that rice and beans need to be accompanied by fresh fruits and vegetables. Time to get the victory gardens going in windows again.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 13 2022, @02:57PM (1 child)
I think GP was talking about survival. You want to talk about healthy diet. Literally millions of people have survived on rice, seldom having anything else to eat. Stock up on the rice and beans, to get through the hardest times, and count anything extra as a blessing.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Sunday February 13 2022, @07:55PM
Throw in some vitamin C supplements, scurvy defeated.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @02:32AM (10 children)
The Historian Barbara Tuchman called war "the unfolding of miscalculations".
Another explicated the Paradox of Power, basically, the more power you have or force you use, the less control you have over outcomes. Intel community calls this "blowback".
Yours, philosophically,
aristarchus
#Freearistarchus!!!!!!! Now more than ever!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @03:52AM (9 children)
Why am I not surprised to see you spouting apologia for warmongers?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @04:13AM (8 children)
Wow, you reeeeEEEEllll dumb
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @07:06AM (7 children)
Yes, he reallllllly is. Has reading comprehension gone negative in America? Would explain certain ignorant morons, who have read too much, with too little understanding.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @07:09AM (2 children)
And, of course, the South will Lose Again! And Trump, well, Trump is dead in 6-7 months. I suspect Melania, or his kids.
(Score: 3, Informative) by turgid on Sunday February 13 2022, @10:01AM (1 child)
My money's on a hamburger overdose. Natural causes. He's no spring chicken.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @02:34PM
Ahh, the Trump connection. Hold onto your hat Mr Turgid, we may just blow your mind.
https://technofog.substack.com/p/durham-clinton-allies-spied-on-the [substack.com]
The Clinton campaign's "foreign policy advisor" mentioned in the original Sussmann indictment was Joffe's point of contact [thefederalist.com] and current National Security Advisor under Biden. Why's that important? [investmentwatchblog.com]
Motive and past form aside, [twitter.com] at least one journalist saw through the latest "narrative". [wsws.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @06:07PM (3 children)
Maybe, but my trigger rate is through the roof! I'll make Gold at the next Trollympics if I can keep it up. #REEEeeeEEEstarchus
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @10:12PM (2 children)
hehehehehehhe
love seeing you idiots parrot insults used against you, doubly so when you think it was someone else that did it! there is a whole article about the importance of education for the brain, looks like you got a QED.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14 2022, @12:10AM
I got another one!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14 2022, @03:26AM
A tip: if you're trying to insult boomers, don't use zoomer slang they don't understand. They'll just think you're stupid.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 13 2022, @03:48PM (13 children)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/13/ukraine-crisis-live-biden-warns-putin-costs-of-russia-invasion-kyiv-latest-updates [theguardian.com]
As I read down through that, I'm struck by the idiocy. They are just now realizing that civilians die in war? WTF, have they had their heads up their asses all through Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Korea, both world wars, and all of history?
Ben Wallace went to the same school as US politicians? Talk big, then try to walk it back when the rhetoric is just too strong? Hillary called that "pivoting", didn't she? But sometimes, your alligator mouth writes a check that your alligator ass can't cash.
Sullivan nails it with "NATO territory" - that is, the west considers Ukraine to be NATO, but Ukraine is not NATO, and the idiocy just gets thicker and denser. He thinks Russia will suffer, and NATO will grow stronger? Just how in the fuck does that happen? We inflict a million casualties on Russia, and suffer none of our own? Yeah, thicker and denser. Neutron star density, I think.
So, on the one hand, Ukraine repeatedly says everyone needs to calm down, there won't be a war, at the same time whining "we needs WEAPONS!!"
Well, fuck. Frank said a prayer, so everything is going to be alright. Oh, wait - did anyone ask God whose side he is on? History shows that God usually takes the side of he who is best armed. Which side is best armed, when both sides have nukes? I suspect God may choose sides based on who has the biggest gonads here. Putin wins then.
Well, Vadym, neither is your fascist government very helpful. If you could go back in time, would you prevent your government from outlawing people speaking in Russian? Would you prevent all the slights against Russians, both small and large, that pissed everyone off and started the rebellion?
Idiots all around.
Let's stop trying to pretend that Putin Evil, and West Innocent. We overthrew the Ukraine government with the end goal of putting NATO forces on Russia's doorstep. We wanted the Crimean naval base for ourselves. And Putin has told us to go fuck ourselves, repeatedly.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 13 2022, @07:56PM (12 children)
Russia-Ukraine tensions high as Biden-Putin call fails to yield a breakthrough [archive.fo]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 13 2022, @08:19PM (10 children)
It can all be turned off, overnight, I think.
CNN headline, "NATO announces that Ukraine is ineligible for membership blah blah blah "
and another Fox Noise headline, "Russia's annexation of Crimea is considered a fait accompli, and NATO will not challenge the fact after the fact blah blah blah more meaningless face saving phrases"
New York Times and New York Post both run "Situation defused in Ukraine when US and NATO forces stand down blah blah yet more meaningless face saving phrases"
Russia has made some very specific demands, after all. If we stop pushing military forces against their border, then Ukraine can do whatever Ukraine wants to do.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @09:56PM (1 child)
LOL whatever you russian shill!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @10:15PM
Funny, when you pass gas, it almost sounds like you're talking. Try talking from the other end!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14 2022, @04:12AM
I used to suspect Runaway1956 was a Russian agent of influence. No doubt about it now. Isn't it against the Soylent Rules to be a Russian shill?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:02PM (6 children)
Indeed. But remember that it's Putin's hand on the light switch.
We already know appeasement doesn't work. Pull my other finger.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:48PM (5 children)
Munich, ehhh? Whatever.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @04:29PM (4 children)
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:13PM (3 children)
I haven't forgotten the sordid history of warmongers. How's Baghdad these days? I'm especially interested in the books district. They may never recover from being liberated.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:48PM (2 children)
Sorry, Russia is the aggressor here despite your spin - with the military buildup, the years of hostile and bad behavior, the invasion of Crimea, and of course, the manipulation of Ukrainian leadership that kicked off Euromaidan.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:59PM (1 child)
Utter bullshit.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:44PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 13 2022, @08:23PM
Wag that dog to the midterms. [english.nv.ua] Joe's approval rating and inflation may be at parity by then.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 14 2022, @04:15AM (42 children)
https://www.rt.com/russia/549252-oligarchs-flee-private-jets/ [rt.com]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14 2022, @09:57AM (41 children)
Reporting from Russia Times? Better than Runaway's usual sources, like the New York Post, the Daily Mail, and Washington Executioner.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14 2022, @01:56PM (40 children)
The Daily Mail are hardly alone in reporting this propaganda piece.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10510201/Ukrainian-woman-79-takes-military-training-country-braces-invasion-Russia.html [dailymail.co.uk]
See the arm patch? [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 14 2022, @02:56PM (39 children)
I missed the arm patch in that story when I read it. Thanks for pointing it out. But the warmongers refuse to see or hear anything that detracts from the 'embattled heroes' status of anything Ukraine.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:03AM
The Grandfather of Justin Trudeau's now Deputy [observer.com] for example? Is it "sins of the father" or "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" when your government just enacted emergency powers...
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:10PM (35 children)
Funny how everyone cares about the neo-nazi babushka. My take here is that the warmonger is the guy who just put over a hundred thousand troops on Ukraine's border. One needs to play some very elaborate rationalization games to ignore that painful fact.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @02:46PM (31 children)
And one need only follow along with the official propaganda published by MSM for Establishment Authority Figures to buy into Sleepy Joe's narrative. We are prepared to fight the Russians in Ukraine right down to the last Ukrainian!
I haz a cereal question here: Where's the altruism angle on instigating the Ukrainian coup and installing a fascist government? How have we improved the lives of Ukrainians in the last ~30 years? Are they really any better off than if we had just ignored them, and pretended they didn't exist?
Also, we saw how utterly incompetent the administration was in the evacuation of Afghanistan. Do we think that Sleepy Joe has learned any lessons since then?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @03:53PM (30 children)
It's democracy in action - at least half a million people on the street.
Euromaidan would have happened anyway, Koch brother/CIA cooties or not.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @04:01PM (29 children)
Citations needed. Take away Koch funding, how does Maidan sustain itself? There were other oligarchs lined up to shovel money at them?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @04:48PM (28 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:06PM (27 children)
That's cool. Just, please, stop trying to pass your faulty vision off as reality. https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/ugly-freddy-young-man-smiling-2926103.jpg [dreamstime.com]
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:17PM (26 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:25PM (18 children)
You repeatedly mock the "Koch cooties". It's almost like you believe the Koch Brothers were solely responsible? Like, the US government wasn't backing them? All those rich Ukrainian oligarches who are abandoning ship today weren't helping? Good grief - the Koch boys were just the biggest investors, not the only investors.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:06PM (17 children)
I believe we have several posts where all you mention of the Euromaidan protests was the Koch brothers. Like here [soylentnews.org] in this very thread.
Here [soylentnews.org]:
Here [soylentnews.org]:
Here [soylentnews.org]:
Here: [soylentnews.org]
Here: [soylentnews.org]
Here: [soylentnews.org]
To summarize, you probably should have been saying something different for the past three years. I also see that the very last post I quoted cites some crazy blogger by the name of Karoli Kuns who in the 2014 story you cited (which would have taken place during the final protests prior to President Yanukovych's departure and removal from office) made zero effort to make a coherent argument. For example, this is her take on the Koch brothers.
The only solid facts, related to the Koch brothers, in here are that the Koch brothers made a purchase of a business with some sort of presence in Ukraine (she didn't even bother to determine how much of a presence) and a pretty vanilla press release about the merger. From that, she spun a tale of US oligarches preying on countries with "dangerous levels of unrest".
I never did see anything backing up your claim that the Koch brothers spent $14 billion USD on Euromaidan. But that claim did get repeated a lot.
Why are they abandoning ship, Runaway? Russia isn't invading, right?
It's an interesting case of cognitive dissonance here. Russia supposedly is just defending its interests. But then you smugly observe the chaotic effects that this alleged defense has on poor Ukraine.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:17PM (16 children)
Well, if they do, it's a shame they didn't invade quickly enough to line some oligarches up against the wall.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:20PM (15 children)
Way back when, fusty was spinning [soylentnews.org] a tale about how corrupt the US was (it was a straw man argument, apparently, without my knowledge, I had come to believe that the US was much less corrupt than Canada and the UK) and that somehow that excused the much greater corruption of China. So he linked [transparency.org] to a map of countries sorted by perceived corruption, ignoring that China was much more corrupt by that index than the US was - yet another fusty own goal.
Anyway, if you look at that map, you see an interesting thing. The Ukraine was pretty bad, but Russia was worse. So maybe they would execute all the mean Ukrainian oligarchs. But it's more likely that they'd just steal a bunch from them and transfer that to mean Russian oligarchs.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:32PM (3 children)
Better to transfer that wealth to mean Western oligarchs.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:47PM (2 children)
They already are.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @11:16PM (1 child)
Thank you for that admission.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @11:36PM
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 16 2022, @02:52AM (10 children)
You're funny... Euromaidan was pure American/CIA. Funny how this story has you all shooting at each other. The idea here is to keep Europe from trading with Russia/China and forming real competing (with US finance) economic alliances. "De-dollarization" is seen as the real threat. The IMF will blow up the universe first
Nobody but the US wants war. Russia doesn't want it on its border and Ukraine certainly doesn't want it on its territory.
You may now resume your propagandapalooza fest
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 16 2022, @04:54AM (9 children)
Then where did the huge number of protestors on the streets come from?
Unless, of course, you happen to be wrong, say because you don't have a clue.
And yet, Russia is the one playing the war games and the war is on neighboring Ukraine's territory. You need a new narrative fusty.
I find it remarkable how people are coming up with these stilted, dumbass narratives and blaming me for bringing the propaganda. I didn't make you all idiots.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 16 2022, @05:01AM (8 children)
:-) Not just you... Eh, whatever, go nuts, you're fun to watch
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 16 2022, @06:14AM (7 children)
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 16 2022, @06:18AM (6 children)
There's no other way to respond to lies and propaganda
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 16 2022, @02:13PM (5 children)
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Wednesday February 16 2022, @09:36PM (4 children)
:-) Of course you do... since you have nothing to say anyway. Objectively, you are doing what you are accusing me of... Exactly how your war mongers are doing in their information wars. Today's the day, right?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 17 2022, @12:01AM (3 children)
Who again has 150k troops on the border of the Ukraine? You've lost this argument weeks ago.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 17 2022, @12:36AM (2 children)
:-) Where do you get your news from? You're still war mongering there. Look at the bright side, you can declare victory every day the invasion doesn't happen, like those crazy Christians with their failed doomsday predictions..
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Funny) by khallow on Thursday February 17 2022, @12:49AM (1 child)
No, the problem here is not the news, not the imaginary Western warmongers, but that there's a pile of Russian troops on that border.
Sorry, it's going to take regime change in Russia for a real victory at this point. As long as Putin or his like are in power, we can return to this situation in a few short weeks.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Thursday February 17 2022, @01:50AM
3) Profit!
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:59PM (6 children)
If you never read Debord [wikipedia.org] you don't understand the game. [thenewamerican.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:41PM (5 children)
And third, there's some interesting weasel language in the second link complaining about Soros and his alleged support of Euromaidan protests. An example that leaps out at me:
How many is "many"? Is it 10 or 10 million? That haziness infects the entire piece. And I find it interesting how this is supposed to damn the Euromaidan protests rather than burnish Soros's legacy! We've seen what an utter shit Putin became after his boy, President Yanukovych got kicked out by Euromaidan. Sounds like Soros and the Koch brothers made the right call.
Sorry, I'm not going to hand wring because there are Soros/Koch brother cooties on the Euromaidan or speak vacuously of "the game".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 16 2022, @01:04AM (4 children)
Would you like a new pair of shoes? [justinmcguirk.com]
Have your shadow government in place, dominate the media, sow civil unrest (do you like shoes?), incur maximum costs to the state and provoke an election crisis. And variations thereof. [wikipedia.org] Do you think NED, NSAID and OSF invest in countries out of the goodness of their hearts?
* Also why they still target Trump. With more media support, he would have turned the typical final stage of the game plan against the cartel in 2020.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 16 2022, @03:47AM (3 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 16 2022, @04:31PM (2 children)
I explained how color revolutions work. Do you doubt it [consortiumnews.com] or why the establishment was upset when Trump cut funding. [newsweek.com] My interjection was specifically in response to your claim...
Ever seen interviews with protesters at mass protests who can't explain exactly what the protest is even about? Beatlemania!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday February 16 2022, @05:38PM
And I ignored that because it was and remains irrelevant and yes, I sure do doubt it. Your first link merely notes that Russia shut down a bunch of US-supported organizations - no evidence given that would support their use in your alleged "colour revolutions". Similarly, so what if someone complains because Trump cut funding. Every dollar spent by the US government has a vocal constituent/recipient. Someone would have complained no matter what he cut.
In other words, you concede this point. I see, for example, an absence of Euromaidan protester interviews that might theoretically support your flimsy argument!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday February 19 2022, @01:13PM
Also, anti-democracy rears its ugly head. Why not just put me in charge so that those poor, clueless protesters never need make/face any hard decisions ever again? I'll make Russia/Ukraine happy and productive! In fact, they'll be so happy and productive, they'll be glowing. So let's call this mighty new nation, SureGlow. We shall have a long, long half-life of happiness! (TM)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:48PM
If only [theamericanconservative.com]
Any other "elaborate rationalization games" [spiegel.de] at play?
(Score: 2) by quietus on Thursday February 17 2022, @04:04PM (1 child)
George Kennan already stated -- back in the 90s -- that extending NATO into the former USSR republics was the strategic error of the age.
(source) [nytimes.com]
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday February 18 2022, @01:24AM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:43PM (1 child)
Daily Mail may be reading Turgid's journal and I'm sure he will be thrilled.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10515451/Babushka-battalion-training-Ukraine-organised-neo-NAZIS.html [dailymail.co.uk]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:56PM
Basically, "Our lies are believable, and the other side will always be wrong, no matter how truthful they might be."
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @03:59PM (6 children)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/russia-returns-some-troops-to-bases-in-areas-near-ukraine-report/articleshow/89588676.cms [indiatimes.com]
Russia says they're sending some reservists home.
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-stoltenberg-de-escalation-ukraine-russia-moscow-military-exercises/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=RSS_Syndication [politico.eu]
NATO says they don't see it.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @06:30PM (5 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @07:36PM (4 children)
Putin has invaded Ukraine before? Huh - when was that, my fine feathered warhawk? I suppose you refer to Crimea? Well, you characterize it however you like. I see it as Russia defending it's own naval base, military personnel, and ethnic Russians living in the area.
It must really chafe your hide that the naval base in question hasn't been opened up for NATO use by now.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @08:35PM
Yes.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @09:56PM (2 children)
There is a profound pathology to all this Russian apologism.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:30PM (1 child)
The unspoken part of that would be,
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Tuesday February 15 2022, @10:45PM
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 17 2022, @05:08AM
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/feb/15/us-accuses-financial-website-of-spreading-russian-/ [washingtontimes.com]
In effect, "You're not pushing our approved propaganda, therefore you are a Russian propagandist!" Oh wait,
There you have it folks. An enemy of Biden is an enemy of 'Murica!
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.