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turgid (4318)
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Wednesday February 26, 20
08:36 PM
The Alt-Wrong have got themselves an Anti-Greta by the name of Naomi Seibt.
The 19-year-old German is a Climate Change Denier and Islamophobe. She is also apparently a member of and speaks to the far-right Alternative für Deutschland, an organisation associated with Brexit's very own Nigel Farage.
Apparently Seibt will be addressing the conservative CPAC this week in the USA along side Trump and Pence.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
No self-made man ever did such a good job that some woman didn't
want to make some alterations.
-- Kim Hubbard
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:08PM (37 children)
Boy, they sure aren't afraid to immediately demonstrate that their bad faith criticisms of Greta were a bunch of bullshit!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:10PM (6 children)
Greta is a child. The other one is an adult.
(Score: 3, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:33PM (3 children)
They can both buy beer where they're from. Neither can buy beer here.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @06:42AM (2 children)
I would say the important variable here is: when the alt-wrong anti-greta is criticized are people going to attempt to deflect it by saying it is wrong to criticize a child.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:48PM (1 child)
Criticize all you want just skip the ad-hominem bullshit.
If her science is wrong, criticize it with a scientific argument.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @04:01PM
Indeed I agree but the topic was how much of a child they both appear to be. It seems to me that a good way to evaluate that is to look to see how many people defend the person based on them only being a child. That happens with Greta. I think it's really stupid to do that. If it happens with anti-greta it would be even more stupid.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:42PM
One is stupid and wrong, the other is a few years younger and smart.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:40PM
Physically or mentally?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:51PM (12 children)
Hypocrisy is not a thing to the sociopath and their supporters. They have the "morals" of an amoeba, or any inanimate object for that matter. Stop dwelling on it like an old lady. You need to find something else to attract their attention.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday February 26 2020, @10:03PM (11 children)
I'm not trying to attract THEIR attention!
Well, mostly.... I do love it when that 'DM is always wrong' guy starts whining like a little bitch when I cite my sources.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @10:32PM (8 children)
I'm not trying to attract THEIR attention!
Then WHOSE?! Your "cites" reveal nothing new and unexpected. You just keep repeating the same old shit we've all known since the 90s.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @11:45PM (7 children)
It is called speaking truth to power.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:37AM (2 children)
Yeah? And?
Power laughs in your face! And pees on your cornflakes! Whaddya gonna fuckin' do?!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @08:50PM (1 child)
Try learning for a change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaking_truth_to_power [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 28 2020, @04:41AM
Bla bla bla... what does it get them? Prison or death... You have to forcibly neutralize power! This being polite shit is for the birds. If speaking is all you can do, you have already lost. Your words are bullshit compared to the guns of the psychopath.
Read what Chomsky said in your link. Speaking "truth" to power is infinitely stupid when they already know it
Power is laughing at you right now. And they are right. They can point a finger, and, poof! Another AC bites the big one..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:08PM
We hear you, and we're coming for you.
The Petaybians
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 27 2020, @07:27PM (2 children)
Not them either.
Mostly, it's the folks who might otherwise get sucked in by the blatant lies and misinformation being spewed in places like this.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @09:14PM (1 child)
You really think anybody here is undecided? Now that's funny!
Besides, you only complain about one side's lies. Until you can lose the tribalism, and can understand why you lost so badly in 2010, resulting in today's predicament, you are full of it.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 27 2020, @09:30PM
I'm making the attempt. I never said it's a success. But, it seems better than sitting on my ass and watching it happen.
I tackle the biggest problems first. When I get done with the people who lie about EVERYTHING I'll get to the folks that slightly exaggerate sometimes.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by barbara hudson on Wednesday February 26 2020, @10:34PM
Well, she does have an alt-right (lazy right) eye ... Bada-BOOM!
Let them continue to deny climate change - they'll be the first ones up against the wall.
SoylentNews is social media. Says so right in the slogan. Soylentnews is people, not tech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @01:54AM
Keep eating those tide pods.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @06:13AM (10 children)
Speech of Greta [youtube.com]
Speech of Naomi [youtube.com]
Anti-greta doesn't make any sense. Greta relies on invoking her own emotion paired with emotional appeals, hyperbole, ad-hominem, and so on.
Naomi literally says "Do not create an ideology out of what a young girl has to say on a topic, regardless of the side she's on." "Do not believe every word I say unconditionally.. do your research and form your opinion on the climate change situation and on any other political topic." And she says that in a mature, direct fashion.
---
An anti-Greta would be shredding crocodile tears and ranting and raving in an equal but opposite fashion of Greta. She does not do this. And indeed it remains stupid to listen to what a young girl has personally to say on such topics. But unlike Greta she tends to mention specific testable and, most importantly, *FALSIFIABLE* facts. For instance did the IPCC predict a third of a degree of global warming per decade from 1990? Have we had less, or more warming? Have we had more, or less, CO2 emissions than the IPCC was assuming for their models? If you're not aware of the answers here it's [Yes][Much Less][Much more].
If you'd actually stop to read the papers you site with headlines like 'Climate Models Have Been Really Accurate, Honestly!' you'll see that's only after they dramatically change the climate forcing assumptions. Climate forcing basically being how much human CO2 influences atmospheric CO2 levels. Turns out it's *way* less than we used to think, and there's no real reason to think we have it correct now either. We just keep changing the "constant" to fit observed reality which, invariably, has little to no connection to predicted reality.
But people don't personally look at these things, or even read the papers they site. They just rant and rave. And people like Greta fuel the hysteria by making claims we're in a mass extinction. It's very reckless and very dangerous. Charismatic speakers tickling people's emotions has a very checkered past, and one I think few people would ever support if they could somehow force themselves to have some degree of objective introspection.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @06:32AM (7 children)
You know, their illiteracy just outs them ever single time. It is almost as if a Republican Representative said that it "Besmirks" something, something. Misunderestimate. Going Rouge with the Refudiation. My Gawd, Republicans are dumb! Spelling, assholes, it is not just for bees!
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @06:47AM (4 children)
That looks like an autocorrect to me. I've got plenty of liberal friends that don't carefully check what their phone is doing to their text input and send me stuff like that. I would not say they are dumb I would say they don't give a fuck and they know I'll understand the ambiguity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:58PM (3 children)
There's your problem.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @04:31PM (2 children)
No not really because they are along the lines of classical liberals not neo liberal. Why would I want to give up my friends just because of political leaning? I teach them things, they teach me things. They are wondering if there is anyone in the Democrat party they can vote for. I don't have to worry about party crap because I was never a Republican and became independent quite a while ago.
I don't see why you would want to cut anyone out of your life unless they were so toxic they injure you.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @08:52PM (1 child)
I'm a liberal with conservative and libertarian friends, it is very easy when people can agree to disagree and not be toxic towards one another.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Friday February 28 2020, @07:10AM
Three nights ago on the local ham radio there was a conversation between a Vietnam Vet and a guy who proudly says that he had the Communist Party help him find a doctor that would file the paperwork so he could dodge the Vietname draft. They didn't even get close to trying to kill each other once. They didn't even raise their voices.
These kids from the Internet don't know what conflict is.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @07:05AM
извините аристаркыс, я не говорю по-английский
(Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 27 2020, @04:05PM
Mmmm-hmmmm . . . you realize that typos don't make you look especially literate?
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 27 2020, @02:19PM
Buuuuuut for all that...Greta happens to be right, and what's-her-face isn't :) And no amount of tone-trolling is going to change that. Facts don't care about your feelings, as it's been said.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday February 27 2020, @03:12PM
Mass hysteria is a thing. Look no further than the French Revolution.
Abortion is the number one killed of children in the United States.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 27 2020, @11:32AM (5 children)
But at the least, it demonstrates the ridiculous nature of the Thunberg phenomena. Now, we have anti-Gretas. What's next? Are we going to see rooms of world leaders sit placidly as they get barked at by a Boston Terrier named Muffy or its pitbull rival Anti-Muffy? Not that world leaders have anything better to do (and plenty worse), but hopefully, this escalation puts this whole circus back into the YouTube backwaters where it belongs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @02:16PM (1 child)
The organic explanation is probably the most likely.
Young girl sees people acting cultishly around another young girl in large part because she's a young girl. She has divergent views, decides to start expressing herself publicly. She gets some fans, and then of course special interests rapidly fawning over her.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday March 05 2020, @12:26PM
Nope. This "anti-Greta" has been quite deliberately cooked up by the fossil fuel industry, via the Heartland Institute.
She has been cynically manufactured by the oil industry like some hollow, auto-tuned commercial pop singer by a record company.
That would make Greta the self-made musician who worked her own way up from nothing on just her own talent, determination and resources.
Also, it says a lot about the alt-right in that about half the commentary about these two on the internet is right wingers comparing the physical attractiveness of the two girls- very often the same people who like to argue that Greta's words are worthless because she's "just a kid" are now gleefully sexualising both her and her right-wing counterpart. Keep it classy, alt-righters!
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @04:17PM (2 children)
left> Hello, tech support? Are you there? Ah good - I have a world wide impending catastrophe do you have a 16 year old girl I can talk to about it? All of the adults can't handle this but I'm quite sure that the problem with the adults not being able to handle it is just that no one young enough yet has regurgitated the exact same info that's been regurgitated over and over again. I know for a fact that the adults are going to respect a person that just started balancing a checkbook.
right> Hello, tech support? Are you there? Ah good - I have a problem. There's a teenager going around saying stuff I don't like to hear. It's wrong to tug heart strings like that and young people don't know what they are talking about. Do you have a 19 year old there I can talk to about becoming our spokesperson?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 27 2020, @08:47PM
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday March 05 2020, @12:48PM
- Hello, tech support? I seem to have a problem with my climate. It's heating up and up and I'm getting firestorms and tornadoes and massive species die offs and I can't seem to figure out what's going wrong.
-- Ah Mr Troll. Thanks for calling. Again. As we explained last time, yes, this is a known problem, with a known solution. You need to reduce global carbon emissions while simultaneously sequestering carbon at a massive scale.
- Well that's ridiculous. Why didn't anyone tell me this before?
-- We did tell you, Mr Troll. We told you last time you called. And the time before that, and the time before that. In fact, we've been saying this to you for about thirty years. If you'd implemented our solution when we first...
- But the problem just keeps getting worse!
-- Well, if you don't follow our advice then it will get worse. As we kept telling you. Have you been following our advice?
- What advice?
-- {sound of head banging on desk} I see... So Mr Troll, what would you like us to do for you today?
- Well, I seem to have a problem with my climate. It's heating up and up and I can't seem to see what's going wrong.
-- Riiiiight. Well, as we have previously explained, you need to reduce....
- I'd like to speak to your supervisor. Right away please, this is unacceptable.
-- {Sigh}. Of course Mr Troll, please hold...
... hold music...
-- Mr Troll, this is the supervisor. What seems to be the problem today?
- Well, I keep telling your support staff about my climate problem, and they don't seem to be able to fix my problem.
-- Yes Mr Troll, I am aware of the situation. The thing is, unless you follow the advice we give, you are going to...
- No no NO! I want to speak to your boss.
... hold music...
-- Good morning Mr Troll, this is the boss. What can we do for you today?
- I have to say, I am extremely disappointed with the service I am getting here. I have a problem and none of your staff is prepared to fix it!
-- Mr Troll, we have tried very hard to fix the problem, but I'm afraid it's just not possible without some effort on your part. We have explained again and again that...
- No, this isn't good enough. I want a solution!
-- Mr Troll, we have repeatedly offered you a perfectly good solution, and there is no other way of achieving what you want. We can't just...
- I want to speak to your boss!
-- But I am the boss. There's nobody else to appeal to.
- That's not good enough, put me through to someone else!
-- {Sigh} hold please...
... hold music...
-- Um, hello?
- Who is this?
-- Well, I'm just a random teenager. I don't even work here. A really stressed-looking guy in a suit just handed me the phone. Can I help you?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @09:12PM (2 children)
No longer does the right need to fear the left's teenage climate girl dominance!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 26 2020, @11:48PM (1 child)
Well then what are they supposed to do now? They only seem to thrive with a perceived enemy to persecute.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @01:12AM
They will wait for the left to reveal teenage climate girl # 2!
(Score: 1, Troll) by Bot on Thursday February 27 2020, @12:34AM (11 children)
Greta, the copy of a copy of Severn Cullis-Suzuki, who sported two surnames and spoke at UN so it was probably somehow not very grassrooty herself, enters the scene.
Leftists: you go gurl!
Rightfuls: meh
Naomi, the copy of the copy of a copy of Severn Cullis-Suzuki, enters the scene
Leftists: clearly a constructed entity without credibility
Rightfuls: meh
BTW, this saturday I was cruising in the city center, when I queued up after a heavily riced jap car, and it had "FUCK YOU, GRETA!" written below the plate (not a sticker, painted), so one can say some right wingers were effectively focusing on the thunberg decoy.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Knowledge Troll on Thursday February 27 2020, @07:49AM
To be fair plenty of people are rather grumpy about Greta. Rather easy to find cries about child abuse.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday February 27 2020, @02:18PM (9 children)
"Rightfuls." Good grief. I'm going to call your handler at Opus Dei and tell him he's not getting his money's worth out of you; you're not only way too heavy-handed, but too childish as well.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Funny) by Bot on Thursday February 27 2020, @05:44PM (8 children)
Opus Dei LOL: "the work of God"
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
I guess the check from greta is late, hence the bad mood and the propensity for getting trolled.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @09:27PM (2 children)
"propensity for getting trolled"?
You didn't troll anyone, you set up a false narrative easily disproven by users on this very site. I wish you assholes would stop admiring trolling like it is some amazing feat to lie to people. You don't win just because someone dares to take you seriously. What is your end-game, have people assume everything you say is disingenuous and slowly get bored of your stupid games and just start cutting you out of their lives?
I'm not talking about me here, trolls tend to take that behavior into real life. I'm sure you have more than a few acquaintances who keep you at a distance knowing that you'll try and rope them into some political debate bullshit where you just want to reach some pseudo-logical gotcha trap.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 28 2020, @01:04AM
There is no "end-game". You're stuck here for life, and you don't know when that ends.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 28 2020, @09:04AM
> you set up a false narrative easily disproven by users on this very site.
according to users on this very site, windows is to be erased on sight and ditto systemd. The real world is different, sadly.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday March 01 2020, @01:44AM (4 children)
The beast with seven heads and 10 horns refers to the Capitoline Hills and several Roman emperors, you know. And the "number of the beast," 666, is "Neron Qaisar" in gematria.
Incidentally, the Roman Catholic Church has been apostate and idolatrous since 325AD (Council of Nicaea). All Jews, Christians, and Muslims are devil worshipers, but you Catholic assholes somehow manage to corrupt even the ancestral cult. You personally are also both an asshole and incredibly ignorant. So there's the hat trick, I guess. You fail at religion, at personal morals, and at the history of your own Church!
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Sunday March 01 2020, @05:50PM (3 children)
>The beast with seven heads and 10 horns refers to the Capitoline Hills and several Roman emperors, you know.
I know that we call it passatism around here. Unfortunately if you take revelation a bit more literally some patterns emerge that describe these times and no other known times.
>And the "number of the beast," 666, is "Neron Qaisar" in gematria.
Except that a more rigorous encoding, of Καίσαρ using the sigma, yields 900. Also CAESAR NERO should be translated to greek first and then hebrew, which is arbitrary. 666 is also william gates III and windows 95 if you use ASCII and the bible does not specify which charset.
Plus 6 6 6 symbolizes humanism ("number of a man" might itself be symbolic). Triple imperfection (one less than 7).
Also the number is linked to the salomon riches, and given the ties between masons and judaism it perfectly symbolizes the current elite.
And obviously such a short hash has a lot of collisions.
But the writer knows that there is a circle that can decode it.
All of this comes from a brief search out of memory snippets. And it is you who proclaim to study these things. I'd say you are a bit superficial or the books you used are.
Jews Christians and Muslims cannot be all three devil worshipers, because 2 are anti christ and one is pro christ (with christ defined as the complete divinity of the guy jesus) and 2 are pro jesus and 1 anti jesus. Given that by definition Christ must either be good or evil, and ditto Jesus, your assertion logically fails.
Of course if you custom define the devil you can pick an arbitrary set of worshippers, but then I can define devil as anybody that refuse to kisses my metal shiny ass and accuse whoever I like so your assertion is logically empty.
As for your analysis on my morality and I guess whole existence, is welcome, but a bit tainted by your methodology level.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Monday March 02 2020, @09:34AM (2 children)
I used to know a lot of Masons. At least one was a practising Wiccan. He had a magic wand and everything. The Jehovah's Witnesses were scared of him.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by Bot on Monday March 02 2020, @02:47PM (1 child)
Next time JW ring at my door I will present myself with a wand and a strange hat and tell them: WTF I am trying to summon demons and YOU show up?
Account abandoned.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 07 2020, @03:58AM
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
(Score: 2) by Mojibake Tengu on Thursday February 27 2020, @12:45AM
To me, Naomi looks much prettier than Greta. Probably, she's much smarter too. They are both stupid enough to become a tool, though.
Some day, it could even escalate to something like that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqdf2cYHwr4 [youtube.com]
Similarity of the situation is quite striking: fresh god Kiana is more powerful with a collective, as she empowers her minions, and at range, while much older Shadow Knight is more effective as an individualist, and at close combat.
The edge of 太玄 cannot be defined, for it is beyond every aspect of design
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @01:06AM (3 children)
Freikorps, NSDAP, now AfD.
Many unanswered questions following attack on carnival procession in Germany [wsws.org]
German government strengthens intelligence agencies and right-wing networks in state apparatus [wsws.org]
Hesse, Germany: Right-wing extremist propaganda at state expense [wsws.org]
Tens of thousands protest all over Germany against right-wing terror [wsws.org]
Shameless Soylvertisement: Why Are They Back? Historical Falsification, Political Conspiracy, and the Return of Fascism in Germany [mehring.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @05:24AM (1 child)
If this is a genuine question, the answer is very simple.
Germany tried to impose some sort of new radical neo-liberalism on the people. Newton's Third applies as well to politics as to physics! For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. And this isn't something new. Know one of the things that precipitated the Nazis? It was just a bunch of far-left radicals taking over the government of Bavaria in Germany creating the very short-lived 'Bavarian Soviet Republic'. [wikipedia.org] It gave people a legitimate reason to fear the far left, and is also part of where the Jew thing came from since the leadership, who rapidly turned to a reign of terror, were primarily Jewish. Had those folks not overthrown Bavaria (let alone another group, again heavily comprised of Jews, revolting [wikipedia.org] while Germany was in the middle of a war) it's highly likely that the Nazis would never have been able to come into power.
Actually I'd say Newton's Third is not quite accurate here. Because the opposite reaction does not tend to be equal in power, but more powerful. I think this is the reason our political cycles also move on about 20 year windows:
- Raging 20s
- Warring 40s
- Civil Rights 60s
- Corporate Christian 80s
- Identity politic 2000s
- ?? 2020s
Of course that types 2 decades into in a fairly limited way, but I think it is nonetheless reasonable. When one looks at history every other 20 years seems to have been a somewhat more logical continuation of what happened 20 years ago, than what had immediately happened. E.g. - imagine that 1920 was followed by 1960 was followed by 2000. Or that 1940 was followed by 1980 was followed by whatever we're going to be entering into over the next 20 years. Makes so much more sense in terms of cohesion and continuitiy. Anyhow, the same issue is in play. One ideology gains power and then starts to go batshit in one direction until they are gradually overcome by the opposite ideology. The opposite side starts out relatively centrist, but then they too invariably start to grow batshit until they're gradually overcome - and the process repeats. The current swing of the United States, and the world, rightward is predictable by anybody who's observed this trend.
Only way this will ever end is for one side, or the other, to take power - but not go batshit extreme. Such is the nature of politics that this is probably impossible, though.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Thursday February 27 2020, @05:43AM
> - ?? 2020s
Technicolor Technocracy 2020s. Ordo ab Chao. Bots rule, but who rules bots?
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 27 2020, @11:46AM
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 27 2020, @06:38AM (1 child)
The Koch brothers can go suck themselves! At least the ones not yet dead. Their father was the founder of the John (white) Birch Society. Nazi sympathizing fucks who had to lay low after being on the wrong side of the last World War. Thank goodness we can punch them in the face with the internets, in spite of their attempt to buy American politics with their huge wads of cash. And a counter-Greta? Are you shitting me? This is like the Monkeys who were created to counter the Beatles, or NSync or the BackdoorBoyz who were created to counter Menudo. What we are dealing with here is billionaire purchased false equivalency! We need more Henry the Eight. Under a parking lot, dude!
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday February 27 2020, @07:30PM
Vote Bernie, he wants to legalize that eighth!
Oh wait....what thread am I in?