My company was recently acquired by a multinational corporation. Knowing that all IT was managed from corporate headquarters. I was concerned that my job was on the line. After inquiring directly with corporate I was assured my existing position was secure and I would not need to move, but 6 months later reality sets in and the rumor mill indicates I will soon be asked to move to HQ or look for greener pastures. So I ask SN, should I consider a move to an area with a higher cost of living (and under what conditions) or should I start the job search?
The twist: my significant other works in a different division of the some company, so it has been made clear that both of our salaries are affected by this decision.
There has to be oodles of experience in the community with what typically happens to staff subsequent to a buyout / merger / acquisition - any gems of wisdom?
Original Submission
(Score: 3, Informative) by tynin on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:09PM
If the wife has to relocate to HQ also, it could work out nicely. You'll both keep your jobs at the end of it and can negotiate a cost of living increase based on the relocation demand.
(Score: 2) by Nerdfest on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:25PM
I was going to ask, if your SO has the option to move, *has* to move, or even *wants* to move. ANy of these could make a big difference in the right move for you.
(Score: 2) by Geotti on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:11PM
It's pretty simple, really: make a list of pros and cons and decide accordingly, taking into account your obligations (loans, kids, etc.).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by wonkey_monkey on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:29PM
So I ask SN, should I consider a move to an area with a higher cost of living
Yes.
or should I start the job search?
Yes.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Francis on Saturday July 18 2015, @09:23PM
In either case I'd start looking for a new job. And probably at jobs in the new area as well as in the current area.
Moving for a job just sucks. It doesn't matter how well intended the change is, it just sucks. And if things don't work out now you're somewhere starting over. You won't have a well developed network, so you'll likely be really starting over. Depending upon the job and ones qualifications it might not be a problem to find a new job anyways. But, until you actually start looking at the opportunities you won't know if you should be demanding a raise out of this or outright walking.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 18 2015, @10:00PM
Translation: consider all options, you'll pick one anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Grishnakh on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:45PM
Basically, what everyone above said.
It really depends on you and your preferences. Do you have any interest in the new city, or is it someplace you'd rather not live? There's a lot more to life and living than the cost of living. People live in high-COL places for good reasons usually. Somalia is a low-cost-of-living place, but who wants to live there? Same with Detroit. Obviously, those are extreme examples, but you get the idea. If a place really sucked that badly, people would just move out (like they did with Detroit) and the CoL would fall. That doesn't mean that every high-CoL place is great, or a fit for you personally. But I do think people tend to focus on that far too much. Low-CoL places in the US tend to be boring, and not have enough jobs.
Is the company offering to assist you in relocation? Are they offering the same for your wife? If so, that could be very lucrative, if you like the idea of living in the new city.
Does the new city have plenty of jobs for you, in case things go south with this employer? That's an imporant factor for a tech worker (or anyone really); if your company is the only place around where you can work there, then losing that job means having to move. That's one big reason why Silicon Valley is so successful.
(Score: 2) by AnonTechie on Saturday July 18 2015, @08:55PM
Henry David Thoreau — "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes."
Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @10:16PM
Detroit is changing fast. Cost of living is rising too.
(Score: 1) by dboz87 on Wednesday July 22 2015, @12:57PM
I travel there for work regularly and it is not changing fast enough. My impression and that of my coworkers who live there is that the rejuvenation of Detroit is a just a short term fad and is unsupportable in the long term.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:47PM
One key point I would stress, having been through this recently, is not to believe anything at all the new owners say before, during, or after the purchase. Nothing they say is binding, and their promises mean nothing. As soon as the ink is dry, they'll be reducing head count. They don't know who you are, what you do, or how essential you are. They just fire people until they've reduced costs. They will string you along, telling lies, to keep you from bolting if you are a key employee. But once the dust settles, you're as expendable as anyone else.
So, yeah, start the job search, regardless.
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 2) by microtodd on Saturday July 18 2015, @04:36PM
I don't know how big your company was before the buyout, and how well-run it was. Was it a great place to work for? Good bosses and leadership? Good benefits? A culture that takes care of its people?
I don't want to be too pessimistic but I've been through it three times and yes, PizzaRoll is right, the new multinational is probably going to degrade the quality of the company. That's just how it works. Its sad and it sucks but that's how it works. Your company was bought because they have some IP/tech, some segment of the market, or some particular customer that the multinational wanted. Unless you're a superstar or a leader at the company then the multinational doesn't really care about you that much. If you're a key engineer on some contract or technology then maybe they'll want to keep you happy but if you're just a regular shmoe like most of the employees then your job probably isn't all that safe. Your company was just a resource to impact the multinational's numbers, and you are just numEmployees++ to that multinational. Sorry if this bruises your ego but that's the truth about big companies.
Keep in mind I'm just making broad assumptions based upon my experience.
It may not be all doom and gloom. Maybe the new parent company has more positions available around the world that you can now lateral in to. Maybe they have more training budget so you can learn some new tech. You need to probably look into these things as well.
But as someone else said in this story, the REAL answer comes from you and your spouse's personal impacts. Do you have kids? Are they in school in the area? Lots of friends? Family? A house you love? Do you like the new area? Is the move just like, 1 city over or across the country?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Joe Desertrat on Saturday July 18 2015, @06:02PM
So, yeah, start the job search, regardless.
This. There is a real good chance the new owners will be changing a lot of things, and a lot of those changes will serve for nothing in your eyes but to make the job less pleasant. The new owners may have their own way they want things done, and even if by experience you have learned that is not the best way to do things, you will have to change your ways. Your in company networks for help, shared information and friendships will likely be disrupted, making your own job less efficient and pleasant. Management chains will change, and new managers will likely require or emphasize different things. Etc. In short, since you are likely to be starting at or near square one again anyway, you might as well see if you have the opportunity to better your own position.
So, yeah, start the job search, regardless.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by NCommander on Saturday July 18 2015, @02:47PM
I've moved around *a lot* both professionally and personally. What you need to ask yourself is are you willing to uproot? This might seem an obvious question but realize that if you've been in the same place for years on end, you'll be leaving behind friends, and possibly family if they are local. While its always possible to meet new people after moving, it can be a very isolating experience if you and your SO are a social bunch. There's also the part dealing with kids, if you have any. I can tell from experience that it can be very hard to uproot and start in a new school and not know anyone, especially if most of the others have been together as a cliche for years on end. Ultimately, you need to make sure your family as an entirety is at least consulted before doing anything, else you're just asking for resentment and friction down the road.
As for job hunting, having options is *always* a good thing, so while you decide if you want to uproot, make sure you know what alternatives you have. If nothing else, you can use it in negotiations with your employer.
Still always moving
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2015, @03:57PM
Also consider what your job opportunities will be in the new location. Which location offers more career opportunities for you and your wife? There is no such thing as a secure job these days. And while it might not be 6 months, it could be a few years down the line the multi-national decides to cut IT staff and you'll be out of a job. In the nineteen years I've been working, I've had one company sold, another company sold twice, and another merged with a company and then sold. And with each change of hands some people end up losing their jobs.
So evaluate the long term prospects of the new location before deciding to move.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by krishnoid on Sunday July 19 2015, @12:01AM
What you need to ask yourself is are you willing to uproot?
Actually, what does that truly mean nowadays? You're not in the physical presence of your friends, but you can keep in touch with them internationally in so many different ways, it seems like it may not be as disruptive as it used to be, say, 20 years ago.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bzipitidoo on Saturday July 18 2015, @04:14PM
Which is better, 2 partners employed by different, totally unrelated employers, or both working for the same employer? Those aren't the only options, there's only one partner being employed, or running their own business., etc.
Deciding on that is less important than socking away as much savings as you can while times are good. And if you're both employed, at reasonable pay (not Walmart pay), times _are_ good. You never want to be in a position where your life blows up and you lose your home and car if your job is terminated, no matter how much employers would like you to "show commitment" by buying those big ticket items on the installment plan. Lot of employers prefer indentured servants to employees. You want to have the option to walk out, and a savings account gives you that flexibility. I've heard employers call employees with such options "flight risks", as if you're prisoners who can escape. There's also the sadistic pusher slave driver types who enjoy grinding the independent down, breaking their pride and self sufficiency, and turning them into fearful, quivering, stressed supplicants utterly dependent upon the next paycheck.
If engineers can't or won't form unions, we need some other way to level the field, stop the relationship from devolving into slavery. Savings is one. Gives you the support you need to risk your job by calling bad management on their bull. You don't have to walk out, but you do have to call them on their threats to fire you, their questioning of your competence or honesty, or their attempts to set you up for failure, or them leaning on you to be a "team player" and put in those unpaid extra hours, or whatever other dirty trick they're trying to pull. Make them fire you or back down. You hope they won't fire you, hope they will see that it's stupid to fire you, but they may fire you anyway, and you have to be mentally ready for that. Being fired used to be a black mark on your record, but now it's not the end of your career, your former employer has to be very careful what they say to potential future employers about the circumstances of your departure. And if they do fire you, good, you didn't want to continue working for such idiots. If they back down, you can still walk out later if you wish. But from then on you will be in a much stronger position. They will know they can't bully and scare you, and the workplace may not be too bad after that. Often they will respect you. I find that the weirdest part of dealing with bullies, having them switch from whip cracking asshole making unreasonable demands to friendly person who believes at the gut level in your maturity and competence in office politics, and respects you for that. You aren't just doing yourself a favor, you're helping all your fellow employees, including the managers, even the bad ones. But it can be a tough call to make, figuring out how much pushing is too much, and you may get it wrong. One of my biggest regrets about sticking around in a bad job months after it was clear I should get out was that my mere presence empowered these dysfunctional managers who should never have been handed such honor, weren't up to the job. Among the many stupid things they did, they resorted to blaming their troubles on the peons, calling us lazy and incompetent. If you defend yourself, that's being disloyal, they really expect the peons to shut up and take the fall. Some management is so bad that you call bluff after bluff, and they still try to crap on you. Best thing to do with management that unreasonable is run away, get off that train before the wreck happens, and it will. Again, savings is key to being able to take that option.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2015, @05:23PM
Different employers, of course. The key word is "diversification". If both are working for the same employer, that means that if the employer goes bankrupt or just fires most of its staff, both partners are out of a job at the same time.
In fact, we still don't know that that isn't going to happen here. There are infamous cases where companies have asked people to move, and fired them shortly after the move, leaving the person with no job, no connections in an unfamiliar area, and out by the costs of the move. Think of being asked to move as being asked to pay the company a lot of money (moving costs + risk of being in new area) just to keep your job, with no guarantee that they won't fire you a month later anyway. You may have to do that if you have good reason to want to keep your job, but it's generally bad for you.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by AnonymousCowardNoMore on Saturday July 18 2015, @07:16PM
There are infamous cases where companies have asked people to move, and fired them shortly after the move, leaving the person with no job, no connections in an unfamiliar area, and out by the costs of the move. Think of being asked to move as being asked to pay the company a lot of money (moving costs + risk of being in new area) just to keep your job, with no guarantee that they won't fire you a month later anyway.
If my employer asks me to move to another location, I fully expect to get paid a reasonable relocation fee. Doubly so in a country where labour laws let them just fire you afterwards (promissory estoppel quietly forgotten). Why would anyone fall for that—low expectations in the US, perhaps?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2015, @07:40PM
What I can tell you is, GET IT ALL IN WRITING! I've seen a few people relocate, only to be laid off or fired within weeks or months after arriving at the new location. Get everything in writing. And, get your moving expenses up front. And, hire a company to do it for you - don't give your employer a week or more of work for free by moving yourself.
GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! Your precise position and responsibilities, the name of your supervisor, get all the little bitty details. Get your working hours in writing, if that's important to you - if you can't stand third shift work, get it in writing that you are 9-5 or whatever. Size of office, company vehicle, details, details, details - get every damned detail that applies to your position. Need some kind of help in locating then renting/leasing/purchasing a new home? Put it in writing. If nothing else, get it in writing that the company will pay for hotel/motel until you are installed in your new home.
And, if things don't work out, can you afford to relocated yourself back to where you came from? Or, will you be stuck in some god-awful city that you hate?
Get everything in writing, then understand that the whole damned thing is just a gamble. The new bosses don't give a damn about you, and your loyalty may be terribly misplaced.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday July 19 2015, @11:52AM
And, get your moving expenses up front.
Look out for "soft downsizing" or whatever the exact HR phrase is.
What you're describing is corporate figures they gotta fire everyone or most people anyway, and estimate it'll cost $10K to move, so they offer like $2K expecting everyone to bail, but inevitably theres some guys with their own truck or few possessions or maybe corporate just plain old failed to estimate well, so after they move, HR has to downsize them because they weren't supposed to move for $2K or whatever.
As for general advice, found out repayment clauses (like if you are no longer employed in 6 months you have to pay it all back even if they fire you?) also always rent unless you've got amazing local advice or you might end up in some rathole you need to move out of.
(Score: 1) by Squidious on Saturday July 18 2015, @09:08PM
Sit down together and make a spreadsheet list of pros and cons of moving and staying. Be exhaustive. Assign a score from 1 to 10 of the weight of each pro and con, negative for the cons of course. Add up the scores. Decisions made! Save the document for later evaluation. My wife and I have made MAJOR life decisions this way and have no regrets.
The terrorists have won, game, set, match. They've scared the people into electing authoritarian regimes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @12:34AM
You are not a slave.
Rebel if you are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @02:20AM
What city would you be moving to? If it was Detroit or new Orleans I'd say no.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @10:19PM
When is the last time you have been to either Detroit or New Orleans? Regarding Detroit specifically, I always heard how terrible of a place it was, and then experienced it for myself recently. Seems that times are a changing.
(Score: 2) by Daiv on Monday July 20 2015, @03:07PM
What multinational corporation based in Detroit has been buying up companies and moving them to Detroit? Same for New Orleans. You come across as an ignorant fool spouting stereotypes for no good reason.
(Score: 1) by krait6 on Sunday July 19 2015, @01:56PM
The problem with the idea of moving to continue the same job is that it moves you away from your usual family and friends. That's why it's "uprooting". If you're a type of person that generates close relationships with others and you keep the same friends over a long period, then uprooting for the job could be traumatic. Where your parents used to be close and so you could get a helping hand or have a temporary babysitter, suddenly that's out of reach, because you're away.
However if you tend to be a more independent person who makes friends easily wherever you are, then moving to a new place might be tolerable.
And it also depends where the move would take you. For instance I've seen this kind of move happen a few years ago where it was decided to move a division from an urban location in Ohio that was primarily Catholic, to a rural location in Utah that was primarily Mormon. It seemed like this decision was made purely on the basis of cost, though I don't recall which costs were being considered -- but regardless the results were terrible. Of the employees that moved with the division, all but one key employee quickly left and moved back, the division lost the recipe for what they were manufacturing, the yield of their product went to less than 10%, and the division of the company was soon closed, so that whole division lost their jobs. You probably can't predict this kind of terrible outcome, but you can try to weigh the risks for both yourself and the division you're considering following.
I guess all I can say right now is that if I were in your place I'd be asking the same questions you are, trying to figure out what's best to do. One thing I know I'd check on would be what other jobs are available in the area that the division is moving to. i.e. "does this cause lock-in". Because if you and your significant other follow them to "rural nowhere" where the company would effectively be the only nearby place for what you both do now, that makes moving with them much more risky.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2015, @06:42PM
>However if you tend to be a more independent person who makes friends easily wherever you are, then moving to a new place might be tolerable.
Indentured servant with no loyalty to family whatsoever.
AKA a cuck