from the they-don't-make-things-like-they-used-to dept.
James Somers wanted to find out why the New York subway's F train still doesn't have countdown clocks to tell you when the next train is arriving. He never expected it to be so complicated.
The New York subway signaling system was one of the earliest attempts to automate a large, complex and chaotic mechanism. It was designed to keep the trains running while making collisions impossible - and it did a pretty good job of that, considering the technology that was available at the time. When it was built in the early part of the 20th century, it was the state of the art - the problem is, much of that system hasn't been updated since then. In the case of the F train, there are no countdown clocks at the station because literally nobody has clear knowledge of the train's position besides the people on the train. (Many other lines do have the clocks.)
Somers' lengthy article examines the nuts and bolts of the signaling system, and also tries to figure out why it's taking so long to bring it up to date - a combination of politics, bureaucracy, and a need to support legacy technology while transporting 5 million people a day.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday November 14 2015, @09:59AM
I just thought the denizens of the subway system just stole the damned clocks.
(Score: 3, Funny) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday November 14 2015, @12:31PM
Is it just me or is anyone else greatly disappointed that the Eds remembered to put the L in clock this time?
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:00PM
The F platform at my stop at 4th Ave/9th Street does have the clocks. It's a major stop with transfers to the N & R lines. Carroll Gardens is not a major stop, no matter how many whiny journalist wannabes use it. It's also the case on every other line that not every stop has a countdown clock. But of course in NYC *your* stop is *the most* important stop.
The hard truth of the MTA is that they're an incredibly corrupt and incompetent beast. The countdown clocks were only implemented at all because the previous head of the agency, Jay Walder, who had previously modernized the London Underground, drove hard to implement them. But even he didn't get them fully implemented and gave up in disgust and left a couple years ago.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:30PM
You spend how many millions on a subway, and try to save a few pennies on not having clocks at each station...
(Score: 5, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday November 14 2015, @01:39PM
Nothing costs mere pennies with the MTA. If they can't spend an order of magnitude than it should cost, it's not worth doing for them because there won't be enough to grease all the palms that need to be greased.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday November 14 2015, @11:57PM
My belief is that nearly any Arduino hobbyist should have the ability to build these....
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Saturday November 14 2015, @04:48PM
I'm waiting for those dummkopfs to dig some tunnels between the Brooklyn stations so I don't have to travel into Manhattan to go back into Brooklyn or take four trains. I take the A from Ozone Park and getting to my brothers place in Prospect Lefferts gardens or my friend in Sheepshead Bay. I have to get off the A at Nostrand, Take the C one stop to Franklyn Av, Get on the Shuttle and take it to the end for my brother or transfer to the Q for my friend. Or I can spend twice the fair and get off at Hoyt and Schermerhorn and walk to Dekalb. They have so many stations within a block or so of each other they can dig a friggen tunnel and connect them. Thank god my girlfriend lives off the G that I can transfer to from Hoyt.
(Score: 4, Funny) by BK on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:03PM
The article is a good read. It discusses a lot of failed and ongoing failing projects. It also talks about a project that succeeded. It seems they brought in MIT software engineers to rework the bus system.
If only they had software engineers working on the trains. Then they could be real engineers.
...but you HAVE heard of me.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Saturday November 14 2015, @05:14PM
and it fails to mention that the London metro (Underground) was started in 1830, and had to put up with a war or two as well can manage a much larger service - with arrival times.
I am betting there are jobs on the line if automated arrival information becomes available, which is exactly what happened in London (automated signals etc).
The New York subway is amazing, because it moves loads of people.
The New York subway is amazing, because it moves loads of people, with antiquated technology!
A modern metro like WDC is actually very well thought out, although newer, and shows how a modern American metro might look...
My $0.02, and growing up in big city got used to glacial changes...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday November 14 2015, @07:09PM
they work well when the trains are running on schedule - but if they're running on schedule I can just look up that schedule on the PDFs I download from their website.
There are many reasons the trains are delayed; quite commonly some irreverent youth commits a petty crime on the light rail then the whole system is held up while the transit police protect and serve him. When that happens the countdown clocks all over all four lines bear no relation to reality.
What I'd like to see are countdown clocks whose reports are based both on where the trains are, and whether they are actually moving.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Appalbarry on Saturday November 14 2015, @08:16PM
We were in London last year, and travelled exclusive by transit.
What struck me immediately is that the city is incredibly pedestrian friendly - narrow streets, great transit, and relatively little traffic.
This success comes from a number of things that seem to be lacking in many North American cities.
- An understanding that an effective transit system isn't something that you build once and then stop - you need to keep growing and improving it more or less constantly. In Canada at least the rule is to build one line from the suburbs to downtown (usually to show off for something like the Olympics) then stop. The result is that if you live right beside the subway or Skytrain line you get great service, but if you're in one of the quadrants relying on buses you get the dregs.
- Congestion charges (as they have in London) only work if you have capacity in place elsewhere. The reason why London streets are relatively empty is because the people who don't want to pay extra have the option of fast, easy, and reliable transit services. Vancouver, where I live, is mulling the idea of tolls and road usage fees, but there's no political will to build the transit system that would make it practical for people to move from cars to trains. Anyone who's sat for hours in jammed traffic going into or out of a major American city will understand that you can't force people out of cars just by punishing them - you need to give them a palatable alternative.
- Effective transit systems are so easy to use that you don't need to plan for it. If you know that there will be trains or busses running fairly frequently at any time you're likely to travel then you use them by just walking to station or bus stop. If you need to plan your day or night out around spotty transit service you're less likely to use it. Again, the example is London, where trains are full of people at midnight going to and from night life because it's easy.
- Ultimately though it comes down to one thing: governments at all levels who understand that transit systems are a critical part of urban infrastructure, and that they need to choose to make it their first priority. In British Columbia we have the absurd situation of a government that forces transit improvements to be approved by referendum, but multi-billion dollar bridges for cars are announced without (apparently [www.cbc.ca]) even presenting a business case for their construction. Here at least the battle for cars over transit has been fought, and transit lost big time.
Which brings it back to those clocks. Like NYC, Vancouver has been playing with the idea, and even installed them on one bus route. What they've found is that it turns out to be much more complicated than expected, and there's no immediate plan to expand to other lines.
Vancouver's Skytrain system (referenced in TFA) is entirely driverless, but is also running into some pretty hefty problems. One line dates from 1985, and is showing it's age with no apparent plan for upgrades or the kind of significant renewals that infrastructure needs every few decades.
There have been a number of system wide shut downs in the last year, at least some of which are the result of ageing equipment. One shut down was the result of an electrician pulling the wrong circuit breaker at headquarters - one breaker - and not only shutting down the entire train system, but disabling the communications system as well. After an hour stuck on trains with no idea what was happening people finally broke out of the cars and walked down the elevated tracks.
Then again, this is a transit service that has had brand new fare gates sitting unused for three years because neither the transit company nor the supplier can make the cards that would operate them (like Oyster cards) actually work.
(Score: 2) by deadstick on Sunday November 15 2015, @12:21AM
Once you get to the platform of a commuter train line, how important is it to know when the next train's coming?
I ride one, and the answer to "When does my train get here?" is "Sometime in the next fifteen minutes".