from the hopefully-it-includes-dilbert dept.
Submitted via IRC for chromas
Thirty-million-page backup of humanity headed to moon aboard Israeli lander
On Thursday night, a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket carried an Israeli-made spacecraft named Beresheet beyond the grasp of Earth's gravity and sent it on its way to the surface of the moon. On board Beresheet is a specially designed disc encoded with a 30-million-page archive of human civilization built to last billions of years into the future.
The backup for humanity has been dubbed "The Lunar Library" by its creator, the Arch Mission Foundation (AMF).
"The idea is to place enough backups in enough places around the solar system, on an ongoing basis, that our precious knowledge and biological heritage can never be lost," the nonprofit's co-founder Nova Spivack told me via email.
The AMF also placed a small test archive on Elon Musk's red Tesla Roadster that was launched in the direction of Mars aboard the first Falcon Heavy demonstration mission last year. That archive consisted of Isaac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy encoded in a disc made of quartz silica glass made to last millions of years as the Roadster orbits the sun. The AMF has also placed a solid-state copy of Wikipedia on board a cubesat from SpaceChain in low-Earth orbit.
Part of the motivation for the far-out project is to leave a copy of humanity's knowledge not just in the cloud, but far beyond the clouds, should the impacts of climate change or a potential nuclear war do us or the planet in at some point in the future.
"While I am optimistic that humanity will rise to the challenge and develop a multinational planetary defense initiative to mitigate these planetary risks, it is also prudent to have a plan B," Spivack said. "Instead of one backup in one place our strategy is 'many copies, many places' -- and we plan to send updates on a regular basis."
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @03:01PM (22 children)
If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Even if, someday, somehow, someone were to stumble across this artifact; how long would it take them to determine that it is the product of intelligence? Try to decode it? Try to understand that we have a base ten numeral system (easiest). To determine that we have a calendar and understand that there are dates recorded into this information (harder). Determine that we have multiple languages, each with different alphabets. (harder still) Understand our writing structure. Left to right. Right to left. Top to bottom. Realize that we use "words" which form "sentences". (except for the president) Figure out that we do not have a global government (whether or not that is a good idea). (the multiple languages might be a clue)
Would they care enough to make all this effort at understanding? Would they figure out how to decode pictures, audio and video?
Once they figure all this out would they then conclude they were completely wrong in assuming this was the product of an intelligent species?
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by progo on Monday February 25 2019, @04:28PM (1 child)
I should think after they take a microphotograph of it, it should be obvious. Is Nature in the habit of creating discs with pits arranged in sectors with headers?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @05:43PM
After they decipher it and understand who we were, they could rightly conclude that either:
1. this disk really was a freak of nature
2. it is a good thing the species who created this disk is extinct
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 4, Funny) by fritsd on Monday February 25 2019, @04:57PM (1 child)
You're right.
We could even turn that around, and ask, how many people found interesting super heavy meteorites, and thought: "hey this meteorite contains the extremely rare and expensive Iridium! C00l! Let's melt it!".
Whereas they could be inert alien scout ships with micro etched instructions "attach 3.03 Volt battery at contact points 0 and 1, input signal at contact poins 2 and 3, output signal at contact points 10 and 11." (assuming they have 2 hands with 2 fingers (and that they settled on Volts in the same way as we)).
Sigh. It's monday.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Tuesday February 26 2019, @03:20PM
Hey! Look! We've found this resource rich planet. It does not appear to have any higher forms of life nor any signs of intelligence.
But has lots of long-chain hydrocarbon critters running around.
It has easily minable concentrations of metal and concrete structures focused in tight clusters, more densely around the coasts and more sparsely in the continental interiors.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 25 2019, @05:08PM (8 children)
On the other hand, if a tree falls and there is someone to hear it, then it does make a sound.
Probably not very long. Next.
They would care enough to get to the Moon after all. If present-day humanity stumbled across a similar artifact, it wouldn't take them long to decipher those things you spoke of, particularly with thousands of researchers working on the task (as well as one or two orders of magnitude more laymen). And of course, there would be plenty of funding to throw at the matter. We obviously have many cultures from history who would be at best completely disinterested, at worst likely to destroy new information that threatens their world-view, but they often showed a similar disinterest in going anywhere where they'd be exposed to such information.
Got to get that emo dig in. We've already figured out that intelligence isn't perfect. I imagine other beings would make similar discoveries on their own time.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @06:03PM (7 children)
That sounds like a vulnerability just waiting to be exploited.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @06:16PM
And I thought I was cynical.
(Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Monday February 25 2019, @06:35PM (5 children)
How? Is this a The King in Yellow [wikipedia.org] scenario where reading past a little bit drives the reader to madness? Or perhaps a A Fire Upon the Deep [wikipedia.org] or Species [wikipedia.org] where the knowledge comes with a hidden trap? In each story, humans stumble across knowledge, the first in a vast, billion year old archive in a distant star system that gives instructions for the manufacture of nanotech that happens to eventually resurrect a billion year old intelligence bent on consuming the entire universe, the second, instructions for creating a species that would drive Earth humans to extinction.
Sorry, but calendars and history lessons don't do that.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @07:26PM (3 children)
> How?
My exploit was much simpler. If finding an alien artifact would divert such much scientific attention, across many disciplines no doubt, away from what they were working on, it sounds like a good way to troll a species.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 25 2019, @11:46PM
It's not that much scientific attention. And you're not going to divert more than that for any length of time without a really good troll that has some substance to it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @01:45PM (1 child)
You mean, all the disk contains really is a Rick Astley video?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday February 26 2019, @03:08PM
Maybe. But only buried in layers of obfuscation, puzzles, fictional historical and cultural information.
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Tuesday February 26 2019, @04:39PM
Yeah, I also thought about the Blight in "A Fire Upon the Deep".
Brilliant book!!
(Score: 2) by mhajicek on Monday February 25 2019, @07:02PM
In 100 years it will reside in the Lunar Smithsonian.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @07:08PM (2 children)
I can't even get backups from a decade ago to read - the software and system are gone. The format, lost. People have suck stoopid ideas and spend millions on crazy discs-into-space while not solving issues. Like say, the climate damage caused by: rocket launches, jet travel, parcel deliveries, diesels.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @11:53PM (1 child)
And Muslims.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Tuesday February 26 2019, @04:49PM
are you referring to the Buddhas of Bamyan [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: 3, Funny) by c0lo on Monday February 25 2019, @08:57PM (2 children)
Did they include PayPal's Terms and Conditions [soylentnews.org] too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @09:20PM (1 child)
I don't know. But wonder if this post's subject line is an answer to the current S/N poll: Where do you primarily keep your files?
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @03:30AM
If I can't find my files on P2P after a few years then obviously they were not worth keeping
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @08:58PM
What about in the case of nuclear war? Set up a satellite or moon-base that transmits on specific known frequencies, so that in the event of most knowledge being destroyed, as long as a few remember what it is, and can find or build a receiver, they have access to the accumulated knowledge and won't necessarily descend into the stone-age. If you set up a dead-man switch, you could hide it and trigger broadcast on a wide range of frequencies to alert people to it's presence and the knowledge it holds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @01:36PM
On board a cubesat in LEO? The absolute worst place for a backup. Should we ever get into the situation of needing it, we won't be able to recover it. And when the satellite is no longer maintained, as LEO satellite it will burn up in the atmosphere not too long after it goes out of usage, even if we no longer have the ability to control it, so it's not even a good place to save it for possible aliens visiting the solar system some time in the future.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by zocalo on Monday February 25 2019, @03:14PM (4 children)
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @04:18PM
I just hope that archive includes a copy of SQL Antipatterns.
I learned everything I know about SQL by reading SQL Antipatterns!
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday February 25 2019, @04:53PM
>a large enough mirror
I think you're on the right track - you want it to be something passive so that it continues on operate for centuries. Perhaps a disco ball would be a better option, as that would tend to glint in the sun no matter what direction you were looking at it from. Especially if it's in free space, where future telescopes are likely to spot it easily enough, but you want to make sure it looks interesting. Heck, you could probably even set it spinning and encode a very brief summary of the capsule's contents in the timing and/or brightness of the flashes: "US Literature Archive 1492-2020AD"
Alternately, on the moon you've already vastly limited the search space - it is the obvious body for humans to leave artifacts on, and will almost certainly be surveyed in detail by any future space-faring civilization, for far more practical and well-funded reasons than archaeology. All you'd really need to do is "draw" concentric circles or something to make a giant bulls eye that would be readily visible in a orbital survey for countless millenia. Though frankly, with a few decades more development in orbital survey cameras, the lander itself would probably be easy enough for an AI-based "anomaly search" to spot - so really you're just making it obvious that this is something the depositors wanted found, and not just another piece of abandoned lunar equipment.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 25 2019, @05:16PM
Such as being made of machined metal and plastic, wrapped in gold foil [thevenustransit.com].
I think the real question is whether there will be non-sentient von Neumann machines first. For example, if someone develops a self-replicating spacecraft on the Moon with the intelligence of an ant (particularly, if they lose control over the evolution of the machine), it's likely to eat the above spacecraft in short order.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @07:02PM
Mark the spot with a monolith.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by opinionated_science on Monday February 25 2019, @03:32PM (2 children)
written by the winners - that's how monarchy, religion and all sorts of horrible human activities persist today when we have *astonishing* technology.
Until we have "evidence based" politics and a devaluation of "faith over thought", which permits the complete lack of competence in government.
And let's not forget, we are all born with no choice where, when or to whom, all the labels are applied then.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @05:28PM
How does any of that matter to this project? There is more than political victories stored in this archive.
Even if you want to worry about how accurate the historical record is I would argue that as a species even if some of the facts were changed the overall record of humanity will remain relevant. Even historic fiction would be better than nothing!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @03:33AM
Better hope that the winners are not the chinese because then the rest of us will be forgotten
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @04:05PM (5 children)
And how many of the pages are about the Holohoax, including all inflated body counts and no reference to non Jews who died.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fritsd on Monday February 25 2019, @04:33PM (4 children)
That's a good point: we must protect our backups from crazies, who would rather wipe out humanity's record of civilization, than admit that reality clashes with their world-view.
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Monday February 25 2019, @04:36PM (2 children)
What I mean is:
"Han Solo shot first!1!"
"FUCK YOU!1! I've had enough of this! I'm going to release my virus that wipes out tha Innernets!1!1!one!" (*)
(*) (this was just an example, I promise I would never do such a thing even if I could which I can't)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @01:39PM (1 child)
First you spoke of wiping out humanity's record of civilization, then you changed it to wiping out the internet. Make up your mind!
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Tuesday February 26 2019, @04:32PM
Yeah, I meant more wiping out what's accessible via the Internet, rather than burning the libraries and smashing the clay tablets.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday February 25 2019, @07:15PM
On a closely related note, the ideologies that led to Fascism (like Futurism [wikipedia.org]) were strong on ignoring or even destroying history as an obstacle.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Monday February 25 2019, @04:08PM (2 children)
An archive of so much human knowledge must include many discoveries and results of trial and error research. Such as how to make fire, the best shape for wheels, discoveries of better sexual positions and devices, etc. Not to mention sound and video recordings of music and culture, literature, poetry and Reality TV episodes.
Can you imagine the IP litigation minefield and liability this would represent for any alien species who would discover this artifact of our civilization?
Can we be called a civilization if we are not civilized?
What doesn't kill me makes me weaker for next time.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Monday February 25 2019, @05:05PM (1 child)
>Can you imagine the IP litigation minefield
Umm... none whatsoever, unless that future civilization believes in perpetual protections? (in which case they've already got far worse problems) *And* extends those protections retroactively to ancient works by alien civilizations.
It also seems rather unlikely that aliens would have any use for sexual positions developed by bipedal hominids with groin-mounted reproductive organs.
(Score: 3, Funny) by bob_super on Monday February 25 2019, @06:03PM
Globulux(R) would like to point out that their patent on oxygen respiration expires in 140M years, and therefore the humans(TM), a unlicensed product of Galatonix(R) will have to be removed from the market in all systems, and all existing copies will be recalled and destroyed.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 25 2019, @05:34PM (4 children)
But, it needn't be all that very high tech. Take all the horny teens out of any high school, and send them to the moon, or Calypso, or Ganymede, or wherever, along with a habitat, and a lot of food to get them started. Send all the automation possible, equipment to extract water, a breatheable atmosphere, and lots of seeds, and animal embryos. You'll have a helluva backup right there!
Yeah, I know, we ain't ready for that yet, but that is STILL your ultimate backup.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Monday February 25 2019, @05:59PM (1 child)
That is, indeed, a much better backup...except that the group you proposed wouldn't survive in an environment that needs care or it will kill you.
This *is* a real problem, and a modification of that *is* the correct answer. But, as you indicate, we can't do it yet. (For a number of reasons, only some of which are stem-science specific.)
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 26 2019, @01:41PM
But their remains will serve as an excellent study object of the state of human civilization. The aliens will have no trouble figuring out why humanity failed.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Monday February 25 2019, @06:27PM (1 child)
You don't need all of that.
If the goal is to backup human existence, just send many corpses to dark spots on various bodies beyond the Earth. They'll just stay there intact, deep-frozen, until the aliens find them and study them.
Write the ten numbers on the fingers. Mount the quartz disc on a granite/quartz tablet with human-scale drawings getting smaller towards the spinning disk ... I found the Golden Record instructions far from intuitive, which tells you how likely someone thinking a different way would be to figure them out.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, because a passing Xzlkzbrg will just mindlessly eat the disk because quartz is a delicacy
(Score: 2) by fritsd on Tuesday February 26 2019, @04:54PM
How to demonstrate that the quartz disc is related to human culture:
african CD player [freakingnews.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday February 25 2019, @06:34PM
I Am Absolutely Serious.
Now, it's going to be a while, as I'll have to save up my street-singing tips so as to pay for the launch and for the lander.
I've spent quite a lot of time puzzling over what format to use. I'm quite leery of encoding them on disks. Possibly I'll print them on acid-free 100% Hemp or Cotton, with my volumes being in a well-sealed container full of Argon.
Even so, paper does decay. Possibly I'll engrave my words on thin still or aluminum sheets, then bind them most likely with a spiral, as one can do for a few clams at FedEx Office.
A while back I watched what for me was quite a _chilling_ Facebook Video, which pointed out that some regard our third and final death as taking place the moment someone says our name for the very last time.
I know well I cannot _prevent_ my third and so final death, but I hope to _delay_ it by a billion years or so.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @06:59PM (1 child)
I hope they didn't include that part where they killed Christ!
They're probably sending the rest of the Kennedy killing evidence up there, and Jimmy Hoffa's ashes?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 25 2019, @07:06PM
Don't forget to include all the copies of the movie "Battlefield Earth".