Submitted via IRC for Runaway1956
Men are "scientific," women are "lovely" and underrepresented minorites are "pleasant" and "nice." If those sound like stereotypes, they are. But they're also words commonly used to evaluate medical students, a study finds.
Analysis of nearly 88,000 evaluations of third-year medical students written from 2006 to 2015 revealed evidence of implicit bias. White women and underrepresented minority groups were more often described by words about their personalities, while men were evaluated with more words describing their competancy.
The results, published online April 16 in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, give "a good idea of what kind of words are being used," says Carol Isaac, an education researcher at Mercer University in Atlanta not involved in the study.
Source: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/medical-student-evaluations-skewed-race-gender-biases
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @08:49PM (18 children)
And this is a problem because?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by ikanreed on Monday May 06 2019, @09:19PM (16 children)
Because medical student reviews are used for selection into medical institutions. Medical institutions provide care to sick and injured people. Shuffling the best and brightest off to comparatively unimportant work because of incorrect information, is, in fact, wasteful of "human resources".
Now, because this is america, the rich are the ones who lose out on better doctors, rather than any kind of system that allocates resources sensibly, but in other countries, this would be a terrible waste.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:39PM (7 children)
What incorrect information are you referring to?
Also, I was basically in medical school (phd taking med school classes). It was just memorizing a bunch of questionable stuff that I believed at the time but began severely doubting once I saw how that "information" was generated.
I now avoid the healthcare system as much as I possibly can, the "all natural" pseudoscience stuff is probably better just because there is less opportunity to do damage.
My point is: maybe (instead of whining about being mistreated) the "oppressed" people should start their own competing medical training system that isn't so crappy. Then I can go to the doctor again. The mistreatment of students is only going to be the tip of the iceberg of problems, I assure you.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:08PM (4 children)
Tell that to Steve Jobs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:15PM (3 children)
I have no problem with his decisions, he probably survived longer with higher quality of life than he would have otherwise if he accepted injections of poison.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:32PM (2 children)
Also, wtf:
https://www.webmd.com/cancer/pancreatic-cancer/news/20110825/faq-steve-jobs-pancreatic-cancer#1 [webmd.com]
So he was getting all sorts of dangerous medical procedures... Also, if this started in 2003 and he survived til 2011 that is 96 months. Only about 50% of people under the age of 75 diagnosed with such tumors survive that long. see figure 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6426577/ [nih.gov]
So everything I've heard about this story before looking into it is fake news. I should not be surprised.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:55AM (1 child)
Well, there's also this.
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs_purported_HIV_medical_status_results,_2008 [wikileaks.org]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @04:36AM
Interesting, so he was having all sorts of interactions with the medical industry. The headline story that he died because he was into all natural treatments is total fake news.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:11AM (1 child)
And I was basically in law school (our cellblock had a library).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:20AM
Nah.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 06 2019, @09:48PM
The whole f-ed up AMA intake process is wasteful of human resources on so many levels - starting with making freshly graduated and residented M.D.s into "Minor Deities", both in their own minds and implicitly in the structure of healthcare delivery in the U.S.
There are far too many competent, capable applicants who could relieve the artificial M.D. shortage in the U.S. who are denied at the MCAT, throttled at the residency programs, denied access to the available Med School programs due to a lack of ability to pay, and otherwise choked out leaving the remaining M.D.s sitting pretty on the ability to demand outrageous rates for their services, and making the whole concept of a 2nd opinion seem like something quaint you might have heard from Ward or June Cleaver, back in the day.
Arguing about racial and gender bias amongst the camels attempting to pass the eye of the needle is really missing the point.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by legont on Monday May 06 2019, @11:43PM (4 children)
Well, I prefer lovely and pleasant doctors. I don't like scientific dicks. It would be a shame if I can't satisfy my selection by choosing an Asian female doctor.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:13AM (3 children)
I don't like dicks, period. No matter what adjective you use.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:31AM (2 children)
Well, I'm pretty fond of my own.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:51AM (1 child)
Then why do you beat on it all the time? Leave that poor thing alone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:43AM
Hey. He asked for it.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by darkfeline on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:42AM (1 child)
Maybe there shouldn't be a quota then, so evaluators don't need to find something positive to say.
I don't know if the medical community has such quotas, but I have seen this anecdotally in education and the tech industry, where there are diversity quotas (not officially, of course, that is usually illegal). You need to pump up your numbers, but you can't outright lie and say someone has achieved A, B, and C when they have not. So you use soft attributes in evaluations, because people generally are "pleasant" or "nice" so you can use them even if there's nothing concrete to praise someone with.
If you've gotten this far, note that I'm not asserting that this is happening in the medical community, but that's what it smells like from personal experience.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @04:39PM
exactly. these propagandists are trying to act like these affirmative action class passers are being mistreated. yeah, fucking right. they are probably overwhelminglyt half ass motherfuckers b/c they've been getting shuiffled through school without merit their whole "victimized" lives. these are the types of people who graduate with degrees who can't even speak english, and i'm not talking about ESL people either.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Monday May 06 2019, @11:06PM
Because Yelp-style reviews turn everything to shit and encourage lazy management to not accurately evaluate their employees.
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:09PM (4 children)
Hello, my name is aristarchus, and I just wanted to jump in here to say this Fine Article is not racist. Facts are not racist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:14PM
No, I am aristarchus! And I think that this is not as bad of sexism as it was in the Japanese Medical schools [japantimes.co.jp]
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday May 07 2019, @12:44AM (1 child)
It's not Racist. Not Racist. It's RACIALLY AWARE!!!!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:14AM
Oh, that is what the Donald and Daddy Trumpf were convicted of in 1973? Good thing they were just landlords and not running a Medical School.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday May 07 2019, @06:21PM
Cherry-picking facts is very frequently racist.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:16PM (10 children)
But I would like a lot more female into the medical profession, and I don't mean nurses.
Doctors, especially surgeons, pull macho bullshit and hazing, acting like they are some Mongol warriors charging against cowering medical students, interns and residents.
Funny thing. In the medieval times, the "best" doctors were jews, and even then, one mistake and their heads were chopped off.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:37PM (4 children)
Definitely! We need females in every waiting room to provide oral pleasure. Waiting to see a doctor can be quite stressful!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:43PM (3 children)
I am guessing all your female relatives are attractive.
My sister will set you straight.
By "straight", I mean dead as dodo.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday May 06 2019, @10:06PM
I had a series of IV antibiotics for several weeks once - four nurses on staff, ranging in attractiveness from 1.4 to 9.7 - their ability to insert the IV correctly was absolutely directly inversely proportional to their attractiveness. It got so bad I was asking about their schedules so I could avoid the hot one.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:08PM
Nothing a bag won't cure, I'm sure.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:35AM
Was your "sister" born with a Y chromosome?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @09:45PM
I thought that happened at their bris?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:21PM
But they're still better than those software developer incels, right?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @11:55PM (1 child)
"In the medieval times, the "best" doctors were jews"
The khazar jews still do that. They would be more than happy to avoid any job that requires actual work. They love jobs like state prosecutors, judges, lawyers, doctors, merchants, teachers, bankers, pornographers, film directors,... anything that does not require actual work or creating something of value. They are the spongers of society. Avoid them like the plague they are.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:44AM
So why do you? I guess the jews are smarter than you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:37AM
I would like a lot more female in the medical profession too. Like one of these doctors...
https://youtu.be/xCeWAGR2iYM [youtu.be]
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:22PM (4 children)
Lets just call every race/gender "it" from now on.
BTW... I'm a Trans-Slender, I'm fat but identify as skinny.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @11:15PM (2 children)
It is possible to identify as a god now instead of male/female. That is what I do.
https://otherkin.fandom.com/wiki/Godkin [fandom.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @11:18PM
I forgot to mention that I also identify as an atheist.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:42AM
If somebody asks you if you are a god, you say yes!
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:17AM
No, of course not. Only things that are blatantly and obviously racist. And let's not forget the gender bias as well.
Just a note: "an even playing field" means even for everybody, not just white men.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:46PM
So the evaluations accurately reflect reality. Nothing to see here...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:50PM
Except Moslems. You don't want one of them coming at you if they're carrying a scalpel, they're probably looking to punch another hole in their jihadi club card.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 06 2019, @10:56PM
Sounds like a transfer of the "unconscious bias training" program originated at Google, that made its way to the medical school from other parts of the university through the SJW ratlines.
What were observed biases when describing a medical student who identifies as an attack helicopter?
(Score: 0, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Monday May 06 2019, @11:06PM
They have the Nexus of the Breaking News. The Nexus of the Community Reviews. The Nexus of the Meta. And, the Nexus of the Politics. But, no Nexus of Racial Science. Big subject and, so many stories about that one. So many. Web Sight people, if you're listening. Put them in a Nexus. And show them off, very proudly together. Thank you!!!!
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:41AM
I wonder if they've considered the possibility that the guys aren't especially pleasant or nice, so it's worth mentioning? It does seem generally true for most of the medical practitioners I've dealt with.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by Alfred on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:28PM
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @01:33PM
I really appreciate having more articles about the possibility of racism or sexism in all facets of human endeavor.
It is hard to find coverage of this in the press, and I find that I just can't get enough of it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @02:31PM
I have a woman physician and though I believe she is highly competent I can say that about many of my past doctors.
It is her bedside manner that really sets her above the rest.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 07 2019, @03:19PM
I don't mean this article or the issue about this, but rather that this observation itself could be a product of political correctness. Imagine there is a minority or female that you do not believe is performing as well as other individuals, yet you simultaneously also believe is 'really trying.' I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people may be inclined to offer these sort of individuals more leeway, whereas they might hold e.g. a white male to a stricter standard of ability. And this leeway could come in speaking of characteristics outside their core competence. The net result of this would be exactly what you see observed. Perhaps one testable notion here (for somebody who feels like sci-hubbing the article) would be whether or not Indian men were also relatively less frequently referenced by personality characteristics. The point there being that Indian men are also substantially over represented in the medical profession and so people might feel less obligated to coddle them.