from the taking-swatting-to-the-next-level dept.
This weekend, Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) launched an airstrike at Hamas's Cyber HQ in an apparently first of its kind real-time physical response by a nation state targeting the source of a cyber attack (as far as we know).
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has launched a physical attack on Hamas in response to an alleged cyber attack. A strike launched by Israeli forces targeted a building in the Gaza Strip that was hosting Hamas cyber army.
The IDF adopted a hybrid approach, it first stopped the cyber attack carried out by Hamas, then once it [had] localized the source of the offensive launched an airstrike.
This is simultaneously an evolution in hybrid-warfare and a return to levels of physical violence in the conflict between Hamas and Israel that hasn't been seen for five years.
The United States has reserved the right to retaliate similarly against cyber attacks since 2011, but has not done so.
The US had considered kinetic responses to a cyber attack:
State-backed hacking and physical warfare have been on a slow but steady path toward convergence for about two decades, and both information security and warfare researchers say that it was only a matter of time before a nation launched a kinetic attack against enemy hackers. "When I joined the very first Cyber Command in April 1999, we were talking about that as a serious thing in case it was needed," says Jason Healey, a former staffer in the George W. Bush White House and current cyberconflict researcher at Columbia University. "I wouldn't say we necessarily had plans for it, but we were thinking it through."
That's an expensive wrench
(Score: 0, Troll) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:59AM (3 children)
Once again, Israel faced a barrage of DEADLY ROCKET ATTACKS by terrorist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad. And that was over 600 rockets. We support Israel 100% in its defense of its citizens. To the Gazan people -- these terrorist acts against Israel will bring you nothing but more misery. END the violence and work towards peace -- it can happen!!!!
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:08AM
Fuck you right in the ear sir!
(there goes my wasted karma)
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:00PM (1 child)
Any chance you could talk them into taking out some telemarketers?
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Wednesday May 08 2019, @10:12PM
I support this AC
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:13AM (10 children)
I remember this topic being discussed around 2010, before the 2011 policy announcement.
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2010/07/01/war-in-the-fifth-domain [economist.com]
I'm tempted to say the U.S. will follow suit, but the intersection of targets we can get away with striking and targets that are engaging in significant "cyber attacks" is probably going to leave very few similar situations. Offensive cyber attacks in response and stuff like Stuxnet are more likely. But drones do lower inhibitions so maybe we'll see it. At least some terrorists have switched to sneakernets/low-tech and face-to-face communication in fear of being droned, so they won't be tapping away on computers. I don't see us bombing Russia, North Korea, or even Iran in response to a cyber attack. Israel has Hamas covered and will bomb it in response to anything. What's left?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 5, Funny) by c0lo on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:20AM (2 children)
Nothing right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by edIII on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:57PM (1 child)
A sexually frustrated angry teenager showing the world how swatting is taken to the next level?
FUCK. If an IP address is widely regarded as unsuitable to identifying people, how the heck is it suitable for determining a "kinetic target" to send a cruise missile towards? I hope these cyber defenders are extremely good and can very accurately determine the source network. That, I doubt very very very much.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:51PM
> how the heck is it suitable for determining a "kinetic target" to send a cruise missile towards?
"Wrong target? Well, it was still Palestinian." - Half of the current Israeli cabinet.
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Wednesday May 08 2019, @09:40AM
Speaking of drones, my guess is that Israeli drones may have been targeted by this "cyber attack". They could pinpoint a specific building and destroy it in response, what else could it be? It would be pretty stupid though, if the attackers sat in the same building as the transmitters they used.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @02:47PM (5 children)
Could the US respond to cyber attack using smaller scale physical response (eg bombs, snipers, mass counterfeit cash, etc) instead of a large scale response (Big Bombs)?
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:49PM
Russia. If you're listening...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:23PM (1 child)
> ...instead of a large scale response (Big Bombs)?
Nah, all we know about is nuking things from orbit. Nothing subtle about our approach.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:34PM
Despite the loud bluster, I think, maybe, we only are able to nuke things from Twitter these days.
I hope we don't have to find out.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:41PM (1 child)
Short of all out nuke strike, the US currently has no capacity to bomb neither Russia nor China. Their rockets are faster and fly farther. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVSldjnJ1-I [youtube.com]
Sanctions are the only tool available.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @05:47PM
X-37 (or whatever it's covering for) + kinetic weapon payload....oh look, a fortuitous meteorite strike....
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Bot on Wednesday May 08 2019, @10:52AM (26 children)
1. Pick target
2. Wait for a zero day to hack it
3. From the pwned PC mount a fake cyberattack on yourself
4. Send rocket to the place in real time, the attack also vaporizes the proof of your hacking.
5. No ??? step
6. PROFIT!!!
Account abandoned.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 08 2019, @01:16PM (9 children)
Also, same sort of thing, but third party:
We've already seen this:
...but as for a physical attack on Russia... we could have all been smelling the radioactive roses at this point if that choice had been made by then-president Obama.
There are less risky retaliatory strategies than the one Israel just chose; I hope at least some countries are measured enough in their thinking to not go to military action. At least until they're sure what they are seeing. "Real-time response" strikes me as a lot less certain than what a careful forsenic analysis might require.
It might look like a duck and quack like a duck, but it might be a bear in a duck suit. These are the times we live in now.
--
I'm a Winner... I just need an easier race.
(Score: 3, Funny) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @02:50PM
Unleashing a blistering Twitter tirade might make the Russians think twice.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:03PM
I hear bear meat is nutritious, if fatty.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:04PM
lol, all those Russian "hackers" who are so l337 they've even mastered the technique of shitposting on Failbook, something that takes decades of specialized training and billions of dollars to even attempt.
Yeah, because the two capitalist parties were best buddies before those l337 Failbook shitposters. She Lost, get over it, try to nominate somebody better than Biden so the D team doesn't fucking lose to a pussy grabbing fascist jackass again. Why is it sex scandals only matter when it's a Democrat anyway? We're just fine with pussy grabbing Republicans apparently but it's the end of the fucking world, get a special prosecutor and start impeachment proceedings if a Democrat is involved in a sex scandal. Eh but should be amusing when creepy uncle Joe gets the nomination. Who's going to be the next president? A pussy grabber or a pussy sniffer? jeezus
Meanwhile, a fascist state supported by both parties finds yet another excuse to blow shit up in the ghetto they've forced their undesirable untermensch into, and we must support that regime, because it's anti-Semitic if we aren't constantly blowing up Moooooooooooslems.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:08PM (1 child)
A Burnie supporter named Seth Rich who was pissed off that Hillary stole the nomination "hacked" the DNC emails - the email leak was an inside job based on the transfer rates of the emails in log files which are higher than Internet speeds -- transfer to a hard drive or flash drive on the local network. Seth Rich was found killed, claimed to be a mugging gone wrong, but nothing was stolen from him... The circumstances of his death are odd to say the least (many people who cross the Clintons wind up dead).
But, don't let facts get in the way of your BS Russiagate nonsense. Don't forget, Hillary is buddy buddy with Russia thanks to Uranium One. The Russia-hack theory lacks credence, unless faster than light cables to Russia exist...
On the A/B/C third party theory: It's called a False Flag, and has been the primary warmaking maneuver for all of written history.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:52PM
Hillary knows who you are.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday May 08 2019, @10:44PM (3 children)
Since when is an indirect mode allowed with the x register?
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 08 2019, @11:22PM (2 children)
Well, in my experience, since the 6809, way back in the late 1970's.
Also the Y register (X #2), the S (stack pointer) register, and the U register (S #2.)
In the following, [] indicates indirect addressing. So for instance:
If X=45, LDA [45,X] went to address 90, grabbed the 16-bit value there, used it as the fetch address, and moved what was in the location that pointed at into the A register.
All four pointer registers could be used as index registers, but the two stack pointers had comprehensive push and pull operators, so they were a bit stronger. Otherwise, nearly perfectly orthogonal.
Four pointers, CC register, 8-bit A and B accumulators, which could combine to be a single 16-bit accumulator, and a direct page register that could do 8-bit addressing of any of the 256 pages 00-FF in the 64k space. A truly great CPU for its day.
Lots more indirect modes, too... that just scratches the surface.
Also, the exact ASM syntax depended upon the particular assembler you were (or are) using.
You can play with the 6809 [datapipe-blackbeltsystems.com] using my comprehensive and quick emulation if you are running Windows or a Windows VM. Complete with assemblers, editors, and more. Full virtual disk system, FLEX09 disk OS, etc.
--
Things aren't always #000000 and #FFFFFF.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Thursday May 09 2019, @12:11AM (1 child)
Orthogonal you say? Must have been nice. Poor 6502 coders were allowed to have LDA [45,x] but not LDY [45,x] or even STX $C000,y.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Thursday May 09 2019, @03:10PM
The 6809 had every flavor of addressing it needed for any pointer register to do its various kinds of addressing with any other register, stack ops excepted (those were available with the S and U registers only as above.) It was a joy to program. Such a shame that it was the end of its line. I always thought the 68000 was, while wider, a pale shadow of the 6809. I wrote a lot of assembler for both.
The 6809 was Motorola's last random-logic design, quite complex for its day. I imagine if Motorola's microcoders even considered making a MC-driven version of it, they probably ran away screaming. 😊
--
Knowledge is strength. Unless the opposition has more money.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @02:26PM (15 children)
Wouldn't surprise me. The Israelis are horrible human beings commiting crimes against humanity with impunity because Nazis. And nobody calls them out for doing things like using passenger jets as a human shield on bombing raids.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:00PM (14 children)
An alternate point of view is that Israel only responds when provoked. If no rockets were fired, there would be no response to rockets. In times when there are no rockets / response happening, then Israel immediately turns around and sends in humanitarian supplies and provides hospital care. People who fire rockets at or who bomb civilians are horrible human beings.
If Hamas wanted peace, there would be no conflict.
If Israel wanted war, there would be no Palestine.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:24PM (13 children)
Israelis are invaders who have no right over the land of Palestine.
Israeli nuclear missiles are aimed at Europe, did you know?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:44PM (6 children)
Before May 1948, Jews lived in what was then called Palestine. And they were called . . . ta da . . . Palestinians, like everyone else.
With the stroke of a pen in the UN, the state of Israel was established. Those Jews suddenly were invaders. Wars started.
I'm not going to argue with your point of view. Please continue to hate the people of your choice.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:09PM (3 children)
>With the stroke of a pen
IIRC it was more a kind of bending to terrorists [wikipedia.org], which can only yield fruit like this.
Venetians, for example, succumbed to gentrification with very little blood (e.g. Serenissimi protest with a tank in S. Marco), and more subtle zionists would have won by now. But it appears the objective is to have a hate generation plant, not a victory.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:29PM (2 children)
People will take different sides on this. Jews in some number have had a continuous presence in the land. If it were an easy problem to solve, it would have been.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:47PM (1 child)
One map speaks better than many worlds http://www.worldliteraturetoday.org/sites/default/files/2012/May/palestinian-loss-of-land-1946-2010.jpg [worldliteraturetoday.org]
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:43PM
That is a useful map to see.
The thing that remains in my mind is that the Jews do have some claim to the land.
As for migrations, I'm not sure what can be said about that.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:55PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 5, Insightful) by edIII on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:51PM
I don't hate the Jews, but you're being remarkably simplistic. The creation of Israel on top of Palestine was by no means as civil, correct, or ordered as you think. Jewish terrorists are a real thing that existed before the creation of Israel.
Jews WERE the invaders here. If it was Palestinian land before the creation of Israel, and the Palestinians were living there with their own society and autonomy, please explain the moral and ethical correctness of non-citizens thousands of miles away taking their land and autonomy from them? Before that, and before the terrorism, the Palestinians were hosting Jewish refugees from in an unarguably horrific situation in Europe. Yes, Jews just like the Palestinians have ancient and religious claims to the land. How do you determine again which group has more rights?
All I know is that Palestinian sovereignty was wholly disrespected in the formation of Israel. Once it became clear what the Palestinians lost, it started a war, which shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone. Since one side was Muslim, that made attacking that side extremely problematic because then ALL Muslims everywhere were obligated to fight in a holy war. Greatly exacerbating the situation was the presence of holy sites to both peoples, namely Jerusalem. Neither people's will accept the loss of this city, seemingly under any conditions.
Personally, both sides are disreputable to me. I've always thought the Palestinians needed to look at Ghandi and how his peaceful movement gave India back its sovereignty and autonomy from the British. Alas, instead of that we've now been trained to hate the Muslims, and they've never once stopped the holy war against the invaders in the last ~70 years now. The Jews are not much better for wholly failing to acknowledge what they did to the Palestinians, and acting like they own the place. Which is factually in dispute. As a thought experiment, how would Americans react if Nebraska was signed away to Syrian refugees by a "stroke of a pen in the UN"?
It would do the world some good to take off the blinders and acknowledge what really happened to both peoples, and try and figure out a way to move forward.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @06:15PM (5 children)
Not that I agree with them having the things, but, considering the past millennia of Jewish persecution from the massacre of the Jews of York, through various Pogroms in the east, then the Holocaust, if I was in their position and in possession of the things I'd be bloody targeting Europe as well.
You do know that back in the day the French nukes targetted Germany, the US, the UK as well as the Soviets? (chances are, they still do, the French being the French..)
I'd also bet there are targets in both France and Germany in the UKs list of 'places to make glow' and I'll bet the US have a number of nukes permanently targetted on 'allies' capital cities..scorched earth policies and all that in case they do have to go up against the Chinese/Russians.
Fuck knows who else (other than each other) Pakistan and India target, but I'll bet Pakistan have targets in Israel and India have a few in China.
(and I'll bet that all of the above have targets in Switzerland, just to teach the smug bastards a lesson...)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:31PM (4 children)
Prove to me that such a thing happened. That same thing has been used over and over again to commit war crimes and terrorism. Repeating lies does not make them true.
But given that Stalin is said to have said something similar to: "a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth".
You hear so much about an event that never happened that you do not even question its existence and attack anyone who suggests otherwise. Media is powerful, and the enemy owns it.
(Score: 2) by fyngyrz on Wednesday May 08 2019, @11:36PM (3 children)
Holocaust images that have been around for many decades [google.com] long before image editing was a thing — you could easily find them in any history book, printed long, long ago. Or, you know, just search for them, as I did for you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 09 2019, @08:16AM (2 children)
There is a Red Cross report from just after the war when they were investigating the camps. They estimated that as many as 250,000 people died in the camps including all deaths from disease and malnutrition as well as executions.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Thursday May 09 2019, @02:57PM (1 child)
Also numerous soldier's biographies. And trial records.
Someone (who is a prolific shitposter, so perhaps they would know) told me I had been trolled by the above "what Holocaust?" post. Possibly so. Because it is difficult for me to comprehend the level of ignorance that would allow anyone with even the slightest grasp of history to take such a stance. But. We see other examples of profound ignorance here on a regular basis. So... yeah. Could have been either one.
I have to admit that when I see people trying to rewrite history to excuse or deny such horrors, I am more than a little tweaked. If we cannot maintain as accurate as possible a view of our past, we will be less able to learn from it. Troll or not, people as the above are complicit. As trolls, mindfully so, which may actually be worse. Assholes, one and all.
--
Co-worker: "Good morning!"
Me: "You need to seriously calm down."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 09 2019, @11:16PM
One of the main reasons for holocaust denialism is it has become the Israeli answer to any criticism. People see it being used cynically and start disbelieving it.
"Why are you bombing Palestinians?" - "but Holocaust you anti-semite."
"Why are you stealing Palestinian land?" - "but Holocaust you anti-semite."
"Why are you systematically draining Palestinian water wells?" - "but Holocaust you anti-semite."
Overuse something and it loses its effectiveness. People are tired of being told that they have to make special allowances for certain people because of what some unrelated people did to other unrelated people 75 years ago on the other side of the world.
Did the holocaust happen ? yes.
Was it bad? yes.
How old is anybody who was complicit? At least 92 (if they were 18 when the war finished).
Is it worth chasing them? No.
How many people were killed? about 11,000,000.
How many of them were Jews? about 6,000,000.
Why are the others forgotten?
Why is the holocaust so much worse than the long march, which killed 50,000,000, or Stalin's purges which killed 20,000,000, or the killing fields which killed 3,000,000?
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @02:37PM (3 children)
Anything the khazar jew israelis do is suspect. As others have pointed out, this is probably a fake cyber attack which they used to justify murdering innocent civilians they were planning on murdering and to terrorize others. The entire illegitimate state of israel was built on murder, theft, assassinations, terrorism and all evil things anyone can do.
Khazar israel has no right to exist!!!
Be a part of BDS (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) to show the israeli khazars you do not approve of their terrorism. Be careful though, you might be murdered by the same khazar israelis for not doing business with them and for refusing to give them your money.
Khazar jews are not human.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @03:45PM (1 child)
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @07:50PM
The JIDF agent above is trying to confuse people, which is part of his job.
How the Racial Hoax of the Jews Was Finally Exposed [texemarrs.com]
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday May 08 2019, @04:11PM
>for not doing business with them and for refusing to give them your money
Technically, the protest would be returning them all THEIR money, sue them (whoever and however jews they are) for fraud and sue who signed the pacts for high treason, and print your money. Guaranteed to get you bombed with some excuse but such is life.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 08 2019, @08:19PM
what could possibly go wrong?