no soylents were surprised
Paper blaming COVID-19 on 5G technology withdrawn:
A paper which argued that 5G cellphone technology could lead to infection with the novel coronavirus has been retracted, but not before scientific sleuth Elisabeth Bik wondered whether it was the "worst paper of 2020."
The article, "5G Technology and induction of coronavirus in skin cells," came from a group from Italy, the United States and Russia, and appeared in theJournal of Biological Regulators and Homeostatic Agents. The journal is published by Biolife, which asserts that it's peer reviewed but has not responded to a request for comment.
The abstract is now marked "WITHDRAWN" on PubMed and the paper has disappeared from the journal's website. The abstract has been preserved here.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:47PM (4 children)
Telcos have very deep pockets... wouldn't be hard for them to disappear any paper they didn't agree with. The telcos gave invested too many marketing dollars in 5G for anything to go wrong with the rollout, no matter what the health costs.
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 27 2020, @11:51PM (2 children)
CIA Labs developed 5G in parallel with the Gates Foundation COVID project... it is no coincidence that the virus molecule is stimulated by the exact frequency of 5G waves. Ask yourself why Ajit Pai still uses a 3G CDMA phone.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:03AM (1 child)
Looks like Pai has mod points.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:22AM
Don't you dare crediting a shit pile when someone shows some sanity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:30AM
Persecuted.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Monday July 27 2020, @11:58PM (25 children)
And don't go in thinking that this is just one bad apple, or one spoonful of shit, depenmding on which metaphor you prefer, or that the problem of crap passing nominal peer review is new:
From elsewhere:
"""
Robert Horton, editor in chief of The Lancet, one of the most respected professional peer reviewed publications in the world dealing with biomedical research had this to say in an editorial published by The Lancet in April of 2015:
"The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness."
"""
and:
"""
And this, published in 2009, by Dr. Marcia Angell, former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine, another world leading publication in medical research:"
"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine."
"""
And those are the well-respected journals.
Which is why Bik and her rag-tag unofficial band of volunteer junk busters are so useful and so necessary, and so valvuable. Large swathes of science publishing need some clorox.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:01AM (7 children)
Read the abstract. FFS, the Starfleet technical manuals make more sense.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:07AM (6 children)
OMG... that abstract is idiotic. Were the authors trolling the journal, or the peer reviewers trolling the scientific community?
(Score: 4, Interesting) by driverless on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:06AM (5 children)
It was awesome. I skimmed through it and assumed it was a randomly-generated hoax like the Sokal hoax, but a quick bit of googling revealed that the first two authors are well-known cranks with a pile of crazy publications behind them. The Russian author doesn't seem to exist, and the final author is a legit research whose name seems to have been borrowed to attach to the paper.
So it's sort of like the Sokal hoax but the two cranks who wrote it were serious.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:21PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by driverless on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:29PM
Ah, OK. Thanks for the update.
(Score: 3, Funny) by edIII on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:07PM (2 children)
My favorite part is when they go from parts of DNA produced through apparently platonic holes to the creation of viruses. Including Cornaviruses. It's automagical assembly of dangerous viruses from parts.
They didn't even take the time to explain their "Heisenberg compensator". At the very least, they could of implied that modulation of the 5G carrier waves induces automatic assembly of microogranism, up to, and including Ebola, and the Peruvian Zombie Disease. Who controls such modulations? The Committee of 300, run by the Rothschilds, the Queen, and the Colonel before he went tits up!
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:58PM
OMG! Zombie Roasted Guinea Pigs? Or is this the virus that took out Che Guervara?
(Note: Nothing says "science" like Zombie guinea pigs!)
(Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday July 29 2020, @01:29AM
Do you think it could be used for Bitcoin mining? Maybe the impinging 5G death rays could be manipulated to cause endless BTC to sprout from people's DNA. That's probably the real reason why the paper was widthdrawn, once people realise this it'll crash the price of Bitcoin so the Illuminati arranged to have it pulled to prevent this.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:53AM (12 children)
No links were found. Next time try an <a href="...">link_text_here</a> markup (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Troll) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:16PM (11 children)
Being a derptard for lulz is very tedious, please desist.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:41PM (8 children)
Because I hate your formatting
I'm sorry, nothing personal, but I can't. It's ingrained.
Besides, letting aside my derp-lulzing and your atrocious formatting, your restricted selection of "Dr Bik's blog, it's excellent (not just the one post)" with no link to the "not just one post" is... anti-informative, don't you think? (if you don't, you should try it some times - grin).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:49PM (6 children)
And also irrelevant.
You couldn't see the links in the summary because I copy-pasted text in my post?!?
You are out-derping even yourself.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:02AM (4 children)
A bit past Beer-o'clock for our slimness challenged Phil, I see. Leave c0lo alone!!!!
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:30AM (3 children)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:08AM (2 children)
Hmm, seems fine now. . . You OK, FatPhil?
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 29 2020, @09:04AM (1 child)
textbox extends outside the formfield, and is clipped. Notice the complete lack of horizontal scrollbars at the bbottom of the window or forrmfield element.
http://fatphil.org/tmp/SNclipping.png
And now consider that my phone is even narrower (800px) than this half of my monitor (960px)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 29 2020, @09:10AM
But anyway, I'm fine, thanks for asking. A little bit annoyed at the level of idiocy that seems to have swept across the planet in the last week, but I guess I'd better have to start getting used to more of that as time progresses and entropy advances.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:04AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:57PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:20PM (1 child)
Don't bother, I finally got it
(wishing for 7 more ASCII characters in the title of your comment, like "Follow the links in TFS")
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday July 28 2020, @11:43PM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:16PM (3 children)
I guess this is the result of the publish or perish model.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:07PM (1 child)
It's more the result of using a bad metric. If you judge an academic's output by the number of papers published, a crank who published 15 nonsense papers in a no-name journal looks like a better hire than Albert Einstein was just after his "miracle year" of 5 breakthrough papers at the beginning of 1906. Combine that with all sorts of organizations with crackpot agendas funding scientists who push their agenda even if it's wrong, and you have a recipe for making nutjobs look like respectable scientists and vice versa.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:09PM
You just described the publish or perish model. Except you pointed out the flaw that is ingrained in the system. It takes a lot more effort to read and understand all of the papers produced by someone. Than it does to just look at 50 published papers and say, hmm. must be good.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday July 29 2020, @08:50AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:10AM (4 children)
Someone who will swear that the 5G creatures made of pure energy can be seen breathing life into the individual Covid19 viruses.
That is precisely the sort of science that was put into that paper.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:28AM (1 child)
Alt headline: Ma Bell, Got the Ill Communication [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:34AM
That shit will give you CovidEardrum.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:26AM (1 child)
If you can see the 5G creatures of pure energy, you might want to do less of the drugs you get from the guy on the corner and more of the ones you get from your shrink.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @05:55PM
oh yeah right. like the shrink meds are any better. are you on The Cheese?
(Score: 5, Informative) by choose another one on Tuesday July 28 2020, @12:55AM (6 children)
Click through to the archived pdf ( https://scienceintegritydigest.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/fioranelli.pdf [wordpress.com] ) and marvel at figure 5, a diagram that shows the central "thesis" of that paper, namely that 5G EM waves damage cellular DNA and so out pops a fully formed coronavirus.
Why 5G and not 2/3/4G or other existing EM wave sources? Well, it's all about the wavelength see, 5G uses "mmWave" (or maybe will in future, at the moment of course it uses existing spectrum areas repurposed because mmWaves don't propagate very far at all through anything, but lets ignore that little timing problem). Now, mmWave is 1-10mm wavelength, and as the paper says, when the human cell is your antenna:
Because your cells are 1-10mm in size, really, that's why you need a ****ing microscope to see them (actually some parts of neurons are actually very long, obviously, but they are also really really f***ing thin, and the nucleus isn't in that bit anyway).
And there endeth the muppetry, so maybe they were just a few orders of magnitude off in their (pseudo)math?
No chance, because they clearly explain their thesis:
That last sentence is a ROFL, no, really. Damaged DNA bits in cells can join up and hey what d'ya know, there's a virus, and not just any virus, iiiits covid!
Basically they "show" (if you can follow the "math", which I ain't even bothering trying) that if you have a typewriter and get the size wrong by a few orders of magnitude then a lot of 5G monkeys might one day produce a letter.
This means that the existence of the complete works of Shakespeare proves that 5G monkeys are dangerous.
On the plus side, I guess at least the pangolins are ok to come out now...
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:24AM (4 children)
Wow, that is exactly the type of quality I'd expect.
That is the most cancerous, brain damaged logic I've seen from a member of the "scientific" community, if they can be called that.
Some group with lots of money wanted this done I bet. Who stands to benefit from the pushing of this conspiracy idea?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:40AM
My sister-in-law may well have been having a psychotic episode on Sunday afternoon, our time (she lives on the other side of the world, and was posting to Facebook at 2 am her time).
I am more than half sure she was quoting from this paper. Wow.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:42AM
Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Authors are just smart enough to slip through the cracks in the system, but they can't actually do science. The world is full of such delluded people, these guys just have the money to pay for publication.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:43AM (1 child)
>Some group with lots of money wanted this done I bet. Who stands to benefit from the pushing of this conspiracy idea?
I tend to agree, but the bigger question is, where is science? Lancet pubs this, lancet retracts this, Bik disses this retracted paper... This is gossip.
Science is theory -> experiment -> publication -> independent verification or something like it.
As for the theme, I'd rather have personal 5g directional (fixed direction) transceivers and arrange a mesh than 5g towers from the guys (corps and government bodies) who milked us for decades with mobile telephony. Remember the prices for an SMS? remember the balkanization, so your cellphone needs to talk with a faraway antenna instead of the nearest one? If 5g were harmful it's NOT a conspiracy, it is standard operating procedure.
Now we should be ok with this guys emitting waves in any direction, intensity and frequency. Because this is what controlled interference can achieve.
As for the influence of radio waves, I tend to be cautious after personal experiment: every time I fell ill, recovery would be quite slow if I spent recovery time in front of the tv (it was the CRT days, I dumped the CRT TV only recently). YMMV and calculating YM would be actual science.
Finally, IIRC Trump is OK with 5g, as long as it's USA to beam rays around.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Tuesday July 28 2020, @10:51AM
Well, CRTs emit both ultraviolet and X-ray radiation, both of which are ionizing, so it would make some sense that it didn't do your recoveries any favors.
From what I've seen, I'm skeptical of non-ionizing radiation from radios of various types being harmful enough that it matters. I won't rule out the possibility of minor health effects over very long periods, but I don't think it will e.g. cause cancer or immunodeficiency.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Tuesday July 28 2020, @02:21AM
My word, he's right! Normal DNA can be broken and converted into a malicious actor! Now all it needs is a delivery mechanism [schlockmercenary.com].
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @01:36AM (2 children)
If I look up an author's publications, it should include the good and the bad.
Withdrawal eliminates half of this story and prevents a clear debunking to kill the rumors.
If you publish something with errors, and review finds them, then you might publish an updated version, but the original should still be around with notes about the errors.
Science is about finding how stuff actually works and sometimes the errors and seeing things that didn't work out are useful in that quest.
Scientific journals are having problems with bogus papers. They should want to out a few to show that they are doing something about it. This is the opposite.
(Score: 1) by shrewdsheep on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:38AM (1 child)
What you describe is the normal scientific process. The updates are called erratums and are used used all the time to point out errors in accepted publications. Retractions are about honest mistakes, when you realize that your hypothesis is indeed dead wrong and your paper just has no merit any more. Or it is fraudulent work when retraction is enforced (through the usual peer-pressure means). Arguably, the publication landscape is highly polluted already and 99% of paper (mine included) would not need to be published because they do not have scientific merit. To put in in laymen's terms: we should treat scientific papers like the human population, every single one less, is good.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Kell on Tuesday July 28 2020, @07:19AM
Alas, as a fellow academic I can say that the pressure to publish even subpar work is extreme. "Publish or perish" is not said in jest. If you are not pumping out at least two journal papers at my university, then you are seen as under-performing and likely to feel the axe the next time cuts come around.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sonamchauhan on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:09AM (2 children)
...but this 'Nature' paper states clearly the mobile radiation can disrupt living cells.
Polarization: A Key Difference between Man-made and Natural Electromagnetic Fields, in regard to Biological Activity [nature.com]
":Thus, ELF electric fields emitted by mobile phones and base stations stronger than 0.0004 V/m are also potentially able to disrupt the function of any living cell.:"
Regarding the withdrawn paper, they seem to have done some math, but the last point seems like a leap, even though half our DNA is alleged to have viral linkages: "roughly 45% of the human genome appeared to be made up of retroviruses, or virus-like entities, such as LIKNEs and SINEs" -- The Mysterious World of the Human Genome, Frank Ryan, ISBN 978000754908-5 [google.com]).
Ideally, these guys could have checked out their theory by culturing units of non-Covid-infected human skin cells in front of a 5G mast, doing the same in a Faraday cage, then submitting the cell lines for testing? (of course, testing is expensive and hard to justify).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @04:24AM (1 child)
This paper is bs but there are real concerns about mm wave and health that are not being addressed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mX1fSrTzvWIxJBOC0Q8POLD0XhBQSpDv/view [google.com]
(Score: 2) by sonamchauhan on Wednesday July 29 2020, @10:57PM
Wow - thanks. Looks like the Ukrainians were onto something back then.
Also, see the book 'Disconnect: The Truth about Mobile-phone Radiation, what the Industry Has Done to Hide It, and how to Protect Your Family' by Devra Davis, and this Scientific American opinion piece:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/ [scientificamerican.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by The Vocal Minority on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:52AM
My first thought was that this was a junk/predatory journal but it appears to be indexed in Scopus and Web of Science. Scimago journal rank of 0.4 so probably not a top tier journal but still legitimate:
https://www.scimagojr.com/journalsearch.php?q=29572&tip=sid&clean=0 [scimagojr.com]
Yes, peer review is not infallible, but this would still be very embarrassing for the journal I would imagine.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Tuesday July 28 2020, @08:24AM (32 children)
I wonder, is it magical thinking or utter ignorance that makes one connect 5G to Covid? How the FUCK should that even work? I am honestly asking, I do not understand how one could possibly make that connection.
"Frequency" is not just woo speak for "it somehow does the magic".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @09:08AM
many people are stupid (let's call this set A). some people are smart (let's call this set B). some stupid people (C) want to seem smart and use smart-people-words to do that (generating pseudoscience).
if you only talk about B people, you can try to apply logic to their behavior and messages in general. they typically have a deterministic decision-making process that explains their actions. when C people generate pseudo-science, there is no coherent path from their desire to their action. they know what they want, and they put together a meaningful story that agrees with them. their story is meaningful for them because:
1. they compensate incomplete understanding of scientific terms with their own values or desires, such that the story fits what they want.
2. their ultimate purpose is not validation against objective reality, but validation by A people.
don't ask "how the fuck should that even work?". it doesn't work, and whatever elaborate explanation will be fed back to you is worthless. you should ask "why are the B people not helping the C people do something useful with their life?" C people are mostly well-meaning. A people are mostly well-meaning, and A people can't tell the difference between B and C.
It's a bit like the Trump situation. If a beggar on the street starts telling people they should drink bleach, nobody listens to them. If a famous man in a nice suit does it, then you suddenly get a doubling of calls to poison control. one of the reasons I hate suits...
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:24PM (30 children)
I will bite.
According to wikipedia, 5g includes the full range of upper frequencys over like 20Ghz. ATT gets the 39Ghz band, and most of what frequencies will be used where are brushed over. So 1, we dont even get an exact description of what 5g even is.
2, no one has ever said that 5g sends virus cells over the air to humans, but this is the anti-disinfo campaign the WHO put out. Do you not find that odd?
3. No one believes 5g causes "covid-19", we believe that EMF can harm the body in ways that mimic a virus or cold, or other diseases.
4. The US Military uses 5g, high end microwaving frequencies, overlapping frequencies in weapons systems, crowd control, etc, (pay close attention to the next part) *to harm human bodies."
5. Safety testing for EMF is done by seeing if volumes of water are heated placed next to transmitters, that is the extent of the testing that says that even 4g is safe.
6. Switzerland and Israel are not installing 5g, why? People there believe it harms the body, and 5g was developed in Israel. Odd?
7. The human body is electromagnetic. All cells and all molecules have an electrical component, it is called, and maybe you have heard this before "The Electron." Molecules and atoms can be manipulated using what are known as "electromagnetic fields", moving electrons are called "electricity." The human brain is studied with what are known as "electrodes" which measure the "electrical" signals of the brain.
8. At present I have been unable to locate an EMF measuring device that goes over 20Ghz, lmk if you find something, but there is as yet no way for a civilian to audit their home or workspace for how much radiation they are exposed to.
9. Do you not find it odd that during a pandemic, the installation trucks for 5g are rolling, even though there is no urgent need or demand for this technology?
10. Do you not find it odd that you have no say whatsoever on what kind of towers or radiation is beamed through your house, and theoretically I could buy the house next to yours and beam unlimited high magnitude signals all day at your house, and your only recourse would be to move? Further do you not find it odd that legally, years ago already, laws were passed to make it impossible for local governments to regulate their own towers and community standards?
Bonus, 11. Has 5g and all its frequences even been tested on animals? Nope.
So we have an unspecific standard, forcibly installed, during a pandemic lockdown, using military grade frequencies, and you have no questions, you are relying on my mind, while saying that everyone who disagrees with you has subpar intellect.
Bonus 12, how many viruses have you known that affect taste and smell? That affect everyone differently? That leave permanent neurological damage? Where the test to see if you have it is barely more accurate than a coin toss?
And my question for you is, if I were your neighbor and I demanded the right to beam high powered microwaves, of porn, through your house 24 hours a day, what is *your* maximum cutoff amplitude/frequency?
You dont even know. You don't even know where to begin. Your "neighbor" could explode your skull if they had enough electricity and your death would just be marked down as spontaneous combustion.
I will wait for your response, oh great one.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 28 2020, @06:02PM
thanks. i was going to do a lazier job if i really had to.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:51AM (25 children)
1. 5g is the 5th generation of mobile communication standard. I don't exactly know what you expect to hear here, it's not more or less than just the next iteration of a communication standard, like IPv6 to IPv4 or HTML5 to HTML4.
2. To be honest, I could not find any kind of evidence that the WHO says anything like that, you might have to provide a link for that.
3. High frequency EM exposure with sufficient power can harm the body. The effects are more along the lines of radiation damage rather than a cold or coughing. It's more like a heavy sunburn or outright burning damage. Not even close to being comparable.
4. See 3.
5. What kind of test would you suggest to satisfy your expectations?
6. Most likely the lack of a need. The main reason 5g is being implemented is that the frequency spread allows higher bandwidths, and since airwaves are by definition shared by all users it means that if you already reach saturation, opening up the frequency spectrum means you can service more users. If there is no need to do so, mobile carriers will probably not be willing to pay for the frequencies and hence trying to sell them would not be too reasonable, because you'd now have to sell them cheaply while you might be able to sell them for more money once interest picks up and bandwidth shortage becomes a reality. For details you might want to ask the mobile carriers of the relevant countries.
7. That I really have to answer this on a board where I'd have expected to meet at least halfway educated people pains me. Our body is not electromagnetic, I have no idea where you got that bullshit but, please, try to lay off the woo for a moment. Yes, there are certain activities in our body, mostly in conjunction with our neural system (plus our cardio system, a really amazing way how our heart beats), where electrical currents play a role, but they are very local and we are talking about VERY tiny currents here. The electromagnetic field they create is insignificant and the influence any magnetic field would have on this is negligible. Yes, if you somehow manage to create an electromagnetic field of many Tesla, you might notice an unhealthy effect on the body. Magnetic fields also follow the square root law of distance, meaning that you'd have to sit REALLY close to the source of the electromagnetic field to be affected in a relevant way.
8. How do I put this nicely... even if you had a device that could measure an electromagnetic field, I highly doubt you'd be able to make sense of what it measures. Let's say your question kinda gives that away.
9. Do I find it odd that people who do their job away from pretty much anyone else are allowed to do it? No, not really.
10. I don't know about your country, but in mine you could not. The amount of radiation that you may "beam" through my house is quite seriously regulated, actually, the wattage of devices you may operate in my country (and whether you're you or some mobile carrier doesn't really matter much in that aspect) is quite strictly regulated, as is the position where you may put them.
11. How exactly would you test them on animals? Care to suggest a standard test for that? And ... what exactly would you want to test?
12. I'm not a virologist, what I know about viruses is basically limited to their function and their infection routes, I don't really know a lot about the physiological impact most viruses have on humans. I do know a few diseases that affect your neural systems, though, some of them having cognitive and behaviour impacts, as well as affecting sight, sound and tactile experience. Why not smell and taste?
As for your final question, my limitation, or rather, that of my country, would be defined in the law concerning the maximum power your transmitter may have.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @01:31AM (2 children)
Item3. You are confusing sunburn with microwave radiation which can penetrate.
Notice how your microwave oven heats the food even on the inside?
Item4. -- Like you said, see Item 3 ...
Item7. In case you missed or slept through all of your chemistry classes, chemistry is about electron shell interactions.
Humans are biochemical ...
Item7. Again -- your quote "VERY tiny currents" -- And by your logic how come "VERY tiny currents" need magnetic
fields in the telsa range to affect them?
Item7. Again -- So a cell phone next to your brain is not considered "REALLY close"?
Item12. Anything that weakens the immune system can cause a variety of issues.
Good engineering practice is to prove things are correct or safe BEFORE deployment.
Even though large companies ignore these things (can you say Boeing?)
Follow the money ... why would a telco want to show (prove) 5G is safe when they
can just buy the govt regulators?
Since apparently nobody can or is willing to show that 5G is safe, it should not be used
until such a time that it is properly studied. Telcos should not be able to "force" this on
anyone -- the onus of proof is on them, and they have not delivered ...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:52AM
sun do not only emit visible waves, it emits a huge range, many of can penetrate your body and much more
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @07:47AM
Ok, how would you show that 5g is safe (which by itself is a bullshit demand and shows off just how little you understand what "5g" means. To you it's some scary buzzword, it seems)? If you demand a test, at least define the parameters you would accept as proof.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday July 29 2020, @08:28AM (17 children)
5g Is NOT like 1234g. It can direct rays. If you don't work out the implications, Trump admin has and started boycotting Huawei. You are smarter than Trump so if he got it you should too.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @09:42AM (16 children)
When half knowledge meets paranoia...
5g offers direct mode, which essentially means that 5g devices can (potentially, depending on availability, ability and legal constraints) communicate directly with each other without the need for a communication tower.
The implications are mostly that it is at least potentially possible to communicate without a cell provider intercepting, manipulating, eavesdropping or disabling communication.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @09:56AM
And yes, I could see why a government would be interested in disallowing that. Direct mode essentially means that you can't shut down your subjects' communication by turning off the cell towers in the area.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday July 29 2020, @10:33AM (14 children)
I was referring to mMIMO, direct mode is at a different layer and irrelevant.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @11:53AM (13 children)
OK, and what's your problem there? Essentially what happens here is that the EM field is being shaped to avoid interferences. It's not exactly a new thing either, it could have been done with LTE as well (and it likely will be done if upgrades to 5g are not going to happen because the frequency spectrum isn't required or available).
Lemme guess, you think that "direct mode" and "beamforming" somehow mean that someone is using a focused millimeter wave beam on you, right? Good lord, words don't have powers, they only describe something in a way that people who use the same words know what's being discussed...
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:33PM (12 children)
If you
a. think multiple towers could not be used in ways out of spec to create constructive interference on specific locations for technical reasons, you are an idiot
b. think this would not be used to harm people based upon their political or ethnic faction, you are an idiot
If, however, you are not an idiot, and I do not think you are based upon the complexity and intricacy of your evasions of the issue,
you are a shill.
https://archive.is/IZsOB [archive.is]
https://files.catbox.moe/xno4wd.txt [catbox.moe] [catbox.moe]
https://0bin.net/paste/NXwHoguJqp8c93qe#9zuT6Zk2sKwrSJJBM6BXz8hl5EjPfXgOX8h6KpAEQje [0bin.net] [0bin.net]
https://archive.is/OrtzP [archive.is] [archive.is]
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:42PM (11 children)
What kind of fucked up country do you live in that you honestly believe that this could possibly be legal and would not be persecuted by law?
If you honestly have to believe that, you have bigger problems in your country than Covid and G5 could ever possibly be.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday July 29 2020, @07:55PM (3 children)
FYI the soviet republic of Italy, yesterday, prolonged the emergency state for... reasons (basically COVID is weak here, unofficially they fear the social unrest in a few months caused by the lockdown which is impossible to locate in covid infection graphs, you try).
This is not a procedure detailed in the constitution. Especially when the government justifies his decisions with task-forces of people in blatant conflict of interest which are sooo sure of their competence that they are already outside Italy, remote conferencing from London.
A technocratic government ready for the time unrest
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Bot on Wednesday July 29 2020, @07:58PM
...for the time unrest gets dangerous is already in the making, headed by colao (corporativism) or draghi (bankster) with the current opposition which are mew mewing splitting and supporting them.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:24AM (1 child)
The soviet republic of Italy... could you please first take a look at WHO rules Italy before you spout nonsense? Their current government is headed by the Five Star Movement [wikipedia.org], a populist vehicle founded by a clown [wikipedia.org] not unlike Trump.
Soviet republic, my ass...
(Score: 2) by Bot on Friday July 31 2020, @05:53AM
I live in Italy, pal. Cinquestelle is a fraud built to demoralize the believer in actual government by the people. They forfeited their leadership of the country to pair with the leftists which were on the way out. Those who note cinque stelle = five stars = the number of stars in the chinese flag went from high grade conspiracy nuts to most accurate political commenter in a matter of days when cinquestelle switched from salvini to leftists with an excuse.
As for the clown, Grillo has been carrying out this operation since his live TV intervention, in 1989.
Account abandoned.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:53PM (6 children)
Where to begin.
Seth Rich murder, no suspects. Epstein, still alive. Neurotoxins and estrogen, in the water. Born rich kid owner of Park Avenue 666, in the white house. Department of Homeland Security, run by a guy named chad with a bachelors degree in basket weaving. Rampant nuclear, nano, quantum, biowarfare ressearch.
Did you see the attempt at oversight at barr's shitshow yesterday?
Did you not read? The civilian testing equipment does not exist over 20ghz and that is where 5g is.
Have you taken a look at the voting machine fiasco? How both iphone and android were backdoored, from the start?
I left the united states, I was the subject of east german kgb style 5g warfare on my personal life, car, apartment, job. They push you to suicide and make it look like it is all your fault. Check the suicide epidemic over the last few months, that and overdoses are just as deadly as the virus has been(even though we cant even get a real count because just about every death is counted as a covid death)
So yes, I totally believe they would hand the admin creds to mossad agents and they would make their "antisemitic" foes, and their fmailies, die of "unknown causes" with constructive interference, from their cowardly perch behind their racist wall in the holy land.
They have broken every other moral and ethical boundary, yet you sit here hemming and hawing like a churchlady who cant believe a preacher would ever put his hand up her skirt.
Difficult to believe anyone is that naive but here we are. And yet towards *me*, you are like a hungry doberman watchdog, every move I make is suspect.
You might want to have that looked at, if you cant look at it yourself.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Friday July 31 2020, @05:02PM (5 children)
It explains why there is a general distrust in government in the US. What it doesn't quite explain is why it's more conservatives than liberals that have a general distrust in their government, last I checked it's the conservatives that are running the country right now.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Friday July 31 2020, @06:03PM (4 children)
That is why I made these:
https://archive.is/cAvyx [archive.is] false dichotomy
https://archive.is/jS8Do [archive.is] reality of universal politics
Here is the actual historical dialectic, and the left side is trying to make it so in 100 years the right side is forgotten.
https://archive.is/FRGCj [archive.is] 2 histories
Which is why this is so indicative:
https://archive.is/jkjA6 [archive.is]
Fwiw, I do not think we know, or can know who is running the country. But Kushner in the white house is a big indicator, they are grooming him to be president or something. This is an old playbook, and if history is any indication they are preparing to purge their enemies. Red shirts, the reds, red hat...red shields...rot schild...
relevant:
https://archive.is/MuiR3 [archive.is]
Embassies closing from...a pay dispute? For the richest country in the world? Is there a union of israeli diplomats I do not know about? Odd....then coinciding with epstein, and a global corporate outcry against....white people?
All normal to you I suppose?
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Saturday August 01 2020, @01:46AM (3 children)
No, not normal at all. This really requires a very special conspiracy nut.
Dude, take a step back and take a breath.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Sunday August 02 2020, @02:39PM (2 children)
I am doing fine with my breathing, you are not doing very well with your thinking.
But thanks for caring /s
You should have a little more respect for people bringing you new information, unless you like being ignorant.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Sunday August 02 2020, @10:15PM (1 child)
I'm very grateful for information, but yours is distorted, and not just due to a butchered aspect ratio.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Monday August 03 2020, @04:01PM
thanks for sharing what you really are
yawn
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:53PM (3 children)
A careful read of this response will reveal to the experienced forum reader that this is some real shilling right here.
We have whataboutism, personal attacks, no true scotsman, asking for impossible evidence, demanding that i provide myself a complete solution, muddying the water, generalization.
Even in just 1, he doesnt even think it is important that we have a clear standard of what 5g even is, like what is the max power or max frequency? That this isnt even interesting to this person, is a huge warning sign he is not legitimately interested in discussion or knowledge.
He is really trying to get us to believe that EMF only affects on the surface of the body, and that no frequency or magnitude of any kind will affect the function of human cells processes.
Then he contradicts himself, the body is not electric, but the nervous system is, and magnets could affect that but only giant super magnets close up.
I know for a fact that any physical object has a frequency response to EMF, and there exists some resonant frequency that could affect it, somehow. If I had a thin wire, or piece of string, or tissue, and I was running a bioelectic level signal across it, and I wanted to use a near or distant transmitter to alter that signal, it is possible.
He says it is impossible. So I guess you have to pick who to believe.
I have, however, seen this sort of disinfo in *every single 5g debate online that I have read.*
EMF does not affect cells, dont ask for a specific spec, dont worry your head, you are paranoid, you dont know what you are talking about.
And never ever will they repeat that it will not be installed in switzerland, israel or brussels.
Or that there are no public safety studies or ways to test, and how could there be as the spec basically includes the entire spectrum over 20ghz and there are no testing devices available to the public for those frequencies, to my knowledge.
So this is a shill, and if anyone is shilling this hard, something fucked has to be going on. Which is to say, someone is trying to fuck over the public.
https://jmichaelhudson.net/2020/07/28/5g-knowledge/ [jmichaelhudson.net]
https://archive.is/b5QKt [archive.is]
Review:
https://archive.is/T4nXC [archive.is] 25 disinfo tactics, here in the wild for all to see
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:42PM
Trump's 6G is coming, and it will fuck you with radio beams AND holographic gaslighting. [gsmarena.com]
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @08:03PM (1 child)
It's always great to be accused of shilling by someone who feels the urge to promote his own website in the same reply.
Believe whatever you want. Just, please, don't damage critical infrastructure in your holy war, ok?
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday July 30 2020, @08:37PM
My username promotes my website with everything I do. I tried anonymity pseudonames for more than ten years and it got me nowhere, although I believe my work had effects beyond what I can personally measure. I can prove to you they are erasing my reddit posts one at a time, I know they are censoring me and repressing my ability to get my ideas out, and exist as a writer in the economy.
My main point was that due to this repression and how everyone assumes everyone is a shill or agent, I spread and anchor my creations over many websites where they are least likely to disappear like is happening at reddit and twitter, now that we know they have buttons that shut down any train of thought from orbit if they want.
So I dont get your response really, it seems to address something I am not doing.
It is funny when you write several hundred thousand words and go to extra effort to anchor them so they cant be changed, and in none of these works do I ever even mention the idea of violent sabotage of "infrastructure", that someone would warn me not to do that, or assert I am on a "holy war" when that is one of the main things I oppose in everything I do.
Israelis and fundamentalists who believe in the 2nd coming are the ones on a holy war and I am not with them in any way, and they are, in my estimation, the ones who are trying to make my life hell on earth, and have nearly done so.
To be accused of shilling while I fight for my life 2 weeks from homelessness, yet again, is rich. Shilling is inherently for someone else, advertising is for someone else, every creator is allowed to promote their own work without any shame whatsoever, unless they spam.
It is really odd and beyond what I would ever have expected to spend so much time specifically explaining, with diagrams, what I am about, and for people to continue to see me as some cardboard cutout. And when I am here ready to go on any show, debate any person, respond to every inquiry in good faith, and it is just meaningless to you people. (it is not just you who responds this way on SN)
Divergent, yes. Weird, yes. moutain of text, yes.
Fake, no. And I am really staking my life on this while you punt from the shadows. So maybe you should take a look in the mirror at how real you are, eh?
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @03:45AM (2 children)
what is your comment about Iran, that have any 5G (not even tests) and is one of the top countries with covid-19 for several months already? Israel sending 5G coverage via satellite to Iran?
How about Africa countries? in cities where even 2G barely works...5G is well know for it very limited range, so no, no neighborhood countries 5G networks
How about Brazil, the Amazonia communities with covid-19, where even satellite phone hardly work?!
Sorry, electromagnetic fields can alter living cells, but require powerful emissions or way too close emission source (with enough power) for a way long time to do anything. And even that, taking sun bath for 10min can cause higher damage than those emissions.
If you want to say that electromagnetic emissions may cause health problems... fine, it is still a open topic for many people (mostly because the difficulty of setting a limit, like we have in radiation, as the damage is very, very low and slow)...
... now trying to link it to covid-19 is plain stupid... all those pseudo-medics (even that anti-vaccine psychiatric, while a "medic", he know nothing about virus and real medicine) mix everything and link unrelated topics to prove their view, but reality show that covid show up in places where there is no mobile phone networks, no stress (another "fact" to explain covid-19 where there is no mobile phone) and even most vaccines (another "fact" to point fingers for all sort of problems)
science works by proposing a theory, do tests around the theroy, check the facts... but then all facts must confirm that theory, not cherry-pick those that are useful discard the others that aren't. If all facts do not match the theory, go back to create a better theory ... or leave science to those what they are doing!
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Wednesday July 29 2020, @09:48AM (1 child)
What's your comment about Hong Kong, another country that has 5g rolled out, has people practically sitting on top of each other and has comparably few Covid cases? Correlation and causation are not just two different words.
[quote]all facts must confirm that theory, not cherry-pick those that are useful discard the others that aren't[/quote]
Umm... when you know it, why don't you use it? Also, please understand the difference between a hypothesis and a theory. If I had 10 cents for every time some conspiracy dimwit misrepresents the term theory, I could buy Apple and shut it down.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:13PM
Above you refuse to even define what 5g is, and do not think the question is interesting, so how would we know the 5g in hong kong is the same as 5g in toledo? And as I stated, it varies even from company to company.
That you do not see a problem here tells me all I need to know about your attitude to the discussion.
I will also respond to your other comment.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday July 28 2020, @03:41PM (2 children)
I will bite.
According to wikipedia, 5g includes the full range of upper frequencys over like 20Ghz. ATT gets the 39Ghz band, and most of what frequencies will be used where are brushed over. So 1, we dont even get an exact description of what 5g even is.
2, no one has ever said that 5g sends virus cells over the air to humans, but this is the anti-disinfo campaign the WHO put out. Do you not find that odd?
3. No one believes 5g causes "covid-19", we believe that EMF can harm the body in ways that mimic a virus or cold, or other diseases.
4. The US Military uses 5g, high end microwaving frequencies, overlapping frequencies in weapons systems, crowd control, etc, (pay close attention to the next part) *to harm human bodies."
5. Safety testing for EMF is done by seeing if volumes of water are heated placed next to transmitters, that is the extent of the testing that says that even 4g is safe.
6. Switzerland and Israel are not installing 5g, why? People there believe it harms the body, and 5g was developed in Israel. Odd?
7. The human body is electromagnetic. All cells and all molecules have an electrical component, it is called, and maybe you have heard this before "The Electron." Molecules and atoms can be manipulated using what are known as "electromagnetic fields", moving electrons are called "electricity." The human brain is studied with what are known as "electrodes" which measure the "electrical" signals of the brain.
8. At present I have been unable to locate an EMF measuring device that goes over 20Ghz, lmk if you find something, but there is as yet no way for a civilian to audit their home or workspace for how much radiation they are exposed to.
9. Do you not find it odd that during a pandemic, the installation trucks for 5g are rolling, even though there is no urgent need or demand for this technology?
10. Do you not find it odd that you have no say whatsoever on what kind of towers or radiation is beamed through your house, and theoretically I could buy the house next to yours and beam unlimited high magnitude signals all day at your house, and your only recourse would be to move? Further do you not find it odd that legally, years ago already, laws were passed to make it impossible for local governments to regulate their own towers and community standards?
Bonus, 11. Has 5g and all its frequences even been tested on animals? Nope.
Find more information than you probably want here:
https://jmichaelhudson.net/2020/07/28/5g-knowledge/ [jmichaelhudson.net]
Tip me plz when this saves your life.
So we have an unspecific standard, forcibly installed, during a pandemic lockdown, using military grade frequencies, and you have no questions, you are relying on my mind, while saying that everyone who disagrees with you has subpar intellect.
Bonus 12, how many viruses have you known that affect taste and smell? That affect everyone differently? That leave permanent neurological damage? Where the test to see if you have it is barely more accurate than a coin toss?
And my question for you is, if I were your neighbor and I demanded the right to beam high powered microwaves, of porn, through your house 24 hours a day, what is *your* maximum cutoff amplitude/frequency?
You dont even know. You don't even know where to begin. Your "neighbor" could explode your skull if they had enough electricity and your death would just be marked down as spontaneous combustion.
I will wait for your response, oh great one.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @12:07AM (1 child)
Why would you even do this? It was cray-cray enough the first time!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 29 2020, @04:39AM
Maybe this time the lizard people won't mod it down.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:19PM (1 child)
Fair enough.
If I want to share an image link, what do you suggest then?
I know of several or I could link to my own site, where the images also are, but then
1. i am "flogging" my homepage and it bothers people, who have complained also just like you did
2. i am linking to an unknown url that looks like it might have malware or be honeypot, idk
I use archive because everyone knows it and it didnt used to give a captcha test, and sometimes it doesn't.
Archive has explicitly stated they are being attacked, and zuck himself has said he is sees them as a "problem" becuase they make it impossible to censor "hate"(of him and people like him), but really just to censor.
The deeper irony is that we are training googles AI through captcha to be able to evade capcha, and at the same time they are the organization most capable of mounting ddos attacks, so we are contributing to a future where google and only google, or some other corp, will be able to ddos anyone at any time, even if they have a capcha implemented.
So I grant your point but cmon, this is a bigger problem than I can just solve myself, and I do not know any better way, and no one offers any suggestions, the web just seems really broken.
And if you really, at this point, still think I am an agent, I do believe then you are more paranoid than I am.
Do you think an agent would really write this:
https://jmichaelhudson.net/identifying-police-state-infiltration-in-civilian-organizations/ [jmichaelhudson.net] [jmichaelhudson.net]
https://archive.is/u4d69 [archive.is] [archive.is]
Or this:
https://files.catbox.moe/02ih3g.pdf [catbox.moe] [catbox.moe]
Or go to all of this trouble:
https://jmichaelhudson.net/rated-soylent-comments/ [jmichaelhudson.net] [jmichaelhudson.net]
https://archive.is/FHpOa [archive.is] [archive.is]
This is what agents look like, and I spent a long time looking into this guy the way you are wondering about me:
https://theconsciousresistance.com/ [theconsciousresistance.com] [theconsciousresistance.com]
Read his half-assed garbage, watch him go to protests and film everybody, watch his videos at "anarchopulco" about ruppert sheldrake and "crypto".
Cointelpro does not admit cointelpro exists, except under the most controlled of circumstances, and when they have total control over what can be censored or changed later.
For some reason this site has not erased anything I have typed, so I believe an information war is being fought over this site as we speak. So here I am to win it.
https://files.catbox.moe/xno4wd.txt [catbox.moe] [catbox.moe]
https://0bin.net/paste/NXwHoguJqp8c93qe#9zuT6Zk2sKwrSJJBM6BXz8hl5EjPfXgOX8h6KpAEQje [0bin.net] [0bin.net]
https://archive.is/OrtzP [archive.is] [archive.is]
If I were you I would save all of these offline, they are things someone who want to enslave you does not want you to know. Hm maybe I will just have to start quadruple or quintuple anchoring my posts, its getting that bad.
I am not being suppressed becasue I am wrong, I don't think, because no one ever even tries to argue with me, they just go straight for the suppression mechanics.
Inquiries like yours are a breath of fresh air so thanks.
---
And to add, even ITT, where I predict low effort psych warfare, they come with their low effort psych warfare. Maybe we are all agents doing a dance, it could be, stranger things have happened.
But that is not what is happening. Feel free to chat me up, lets do a podcast, give me your turing test, sounds fun.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:24PM
sorry this was error, many tabs open on small screen.
(Score: 2) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Wednesday July 29 2020, @02:59PM
Sorry about that "response to etherscythe" error feel free to remove it.
Just wanted to add yesterday I put all of my best 5g links onto one page:
https://jmichaelhudson.net/2020/07/28/5g-knowledge/ [jmichaelhudson.net]
https://archive.is/b5QKt [archive.is]
I ask for lenience as I am providing a lot of information and the topic is urgent and there is real danger.