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You’re not the only one spending fewer summer weekends watching other people get married—but don’t worry, the weddings you’re still invited to might feel a little more special these days.
Fewer Americans are getting married, and the ones who still are have scaled back their weddings. Their nuptials are becoming smaller, though not necessarily cheaper, affairs.
Many couples are waiting longer and longer to schedule their weddings. In 2015, the median first-time American bride was almost 28 years old and the median groom almost 30, according to the most recent data available from the Census Bureau. (Ten years earlier, the typical bride was 25.5, the typical groom 27.)
The U.S. marriage rate—the number of new marriages per 1,000 people—has been falling for decades. It fell especially fast during the recession, in 2008 and 2009, but there’s little evidence that people started getting married again even as the economy recovered. And research firm IbisWorld predicts the marriage rate will keep falling over the next five years.
From a global perspective, that wouldn’t be a surprise. The U.S. marriage rate would need to fall by about a third to reach the marriage rates in other developed countries. The most recent data show a U.S. marriage rate of 6.9, compared with an average rate of 4.6 for countries in the European Union.
Are weaker economics the cause, or has marriage gone out of fashion?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:02PM (33 children)
Let me count the reasons.
[1] No relatives.
[2] No friends.
[3] No female acquaintances.
[4] Banned from every social group.
The women who control social events hate me for existing. There is no chance I will ever attend a wedding in my lifetime.
(Score: 3, Funny) by KiloByte on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:09PM
Those of us who haven't cut ties with the family can tell you: you're not losing anything.
Ceterum censeo systemd esse delendam.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:11PM (1 child)
Have you considered a career in wedding photography?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:20PM
Like Foday Sankoh [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Whoever on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:17PM (6 children)
Perhaps there is a reason that you have been shunned by family and everyone else?
Did you ever consider changing your behaviour?
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:20PM
No. I always keep it real, nigga.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:50PM
Whoever do you think you are, criticizing stranger's behavior?
by Whoever (4524)
Oh, I see. Go on.
(Score: 0) by fakefuck39 on Monday July 31 2017, @03:52AM (3 children)
Yeah, I hate that behavior where people make shit up, assign it to other people, then argue against it. It's called talking to yourself, while thinking another real person is saying it. We normal people call it not taking your pills. Time to take those pills buddy.
-AC says he doesn't like hanging out with people and prefers to be alone. Alone of course in this world still means spending 50 hour hanging out with people at work. The voice in you head translates that to "he's shunned by family and friends because of his inadequate behavior. Time to take those pills buddy.
Well, I'm wrong on a part of that. He did say women who spend their life organizing social events shun him. You suggest a way to reverse that, so he gets to spend more time with women who spend their life organizing social events. You're not schizo. You're just a complete loser, who has bland loser empty friends, have done nothing in your life I would consider "living," and when you're gone your shitstain loser life will be flushed down by people like me on the double-folder tp square. I used to stuff tan dockers-wearing 34 is the new 32 average-IQ morons into lockers in highschool. You're worse than the bullies and the geeky ugly nerds. You are a cardboard box.
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Monday July 31 2017, @11:09AM (2 children)
AC only said that he/she has no friends, family, and has been banned from every social group — not that it was because AC wants to be isolated.
There's a big gap between being so extremely introverted that one turns down social opportunities, and being so disliked that everyone else wants nothing to do with you.
(Score: 0) by fakefuck39 on Wednesday August 02 2017, @08:36AM
Goddamn retards on here.
>AC only said that he/she has no friends, family
my point exactly
> and has been banned from every social group
those voices making shit up again. do show us where this was said outside of your head that needs its pills.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 02 2017, @08:47AM
I'm guessing everyone == people who are in social groups. Strange news to me, since while I was in a "social group" in highschool, I've grown up. Reddit is the site you want.
Most adults who are not bland soccer mom suburbarats are not in a "social group" you stupid stupid kid. I know you've discovered this site, but it is not for you. There's a subreddit out there somewhere that will welcome you with unshowered arms and clearasil-covered faces like yours. This site is for people who were like that around '97, and have since grown up and left crapdot for more adult conversation. Let's call it a "social group" of people not like you. Fuck off ya dumb kid.
As far as the OP - that's the point he was making. Adults who are in "social groups" are uninteresting retards. Those are usually the people who are all about weddings, place cards, and wedding planning. Who the fuck wants to be forced to socialize with that greasy tasteless human version of the Denny's menu.
Time for homework Dimmy. Your mom's driving you to soccer practice and then she's got her friend's daugher's wedding planning session. You know, the two hours of white wine and flipping through sample books that she's been doing on Tuesdays and Thursdays for the last two months.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:18PM (7 children)
There are women who know of your existence? Your life must be a social whirlwind. I don't think any women were aware of my existence until my mid-20's apart from a mother and an aunt.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:14PM
The way it works is I might occasionally meet a man who invites me into his group of buddies. One or more of those guys knows a woman. As soon as the woman learns of my existence, that's it, I'm out of the group by decree of the woman. Her social group doesn't have room for losers.
(Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:34PM (5 children)
That's what college was for...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:42PM (3 children)
Too busy studying in college to gain skills. Didn't blog about my skills on social media. Now nobody believes I have any skills.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:14PM
I ran into that. Both people overestimating my capabilities, but moreover a lot of people feeling threatened even as they took advantage of my help to pass classes.
I had maybe 3 people over years of college offer to help me get a job or internship, and of those, 1 came through, one was straight up shady, and the other was unpaid, then turned out they were unqualified for an internship that earned credits. No money, no credits, no thanks.
Result was I got a few shitty jobs by throwing out job applications, and a couple by word of mouth,none of which in turn provided good references for future jobs, before I finally got out of the job market (two separate careers later.)
I had a discussion with someone the other day who is much better off, but a wage slave looking to relocate and they stated flat out the same thing: Around here who you know is more likely to get you a job than what you know, even if what you know is exactly what someone is looking for. Stupid, but dems da breaks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:52PM
Create a github account. Contribute.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @11:58PM
stop being a victim. just make yourself pres and ceo, make your own application with a biz model that works and sell it. retire in 10-20 yrs. no big deal. people who can write quality software have no excuse. It's usually lack of common sense or confidence. you can do it!
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday July 31 2017, @10:32AM
No women in my college or course, nor in my employments back then (in heavy engineering).
Anyway I cannot begin to imagine how you could take the sort of intensive high quality course I took and juggle with affairs at the same time.
(Score: 1) by kurenai.tsubasa on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:58PM
No, no, no. You're doing it wrong!
The correct response is to blame homosexuals! They ruined weddings with their wanting to have weddings with a wedding cake crap! The correlation is obvious! Gay marriage causes a wedding cake shortage, which leads to a decrease in weddings! Q! E! D!
Next, I'm going to combat global warming by becoming a pirate on the high seas! The correlations are obvious! Yarr!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:50PM
[5] Too busy shitposting on SoylentNews.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by KGIII on Monday July 31 2017, @04:31AM (12 children)
That is foreign, to me. Even when I was poor, I had a girlfriend. In my days of being an asshole; I cheated on my mistress - which means, yes, I even had a wife at the time. All of them have been quite good looking, if I dated them. I have a girlfriend asleep beside me, though I am completely faithful today.
It is not, to me, difficult to get and maintain relationships. Your experience is something I do not understand. I am not a good looking individual. I'm just average. I do have a Ph.D. in mathematics, and am pretty nerdy - though I have non-nerdy hobbies. I can't dance well, but I can count and kinda wiggle in time. I can play the guitar quite well, but that's just math being expressed artistically.
I pay attention to people, I'm an active listener. I tell salient jokes and stories. I engage people on their level. I watch for visual cues, and try to make people feel important.
I try never to say, "I understand." I don't understand, I am not in their shoes. Instead, I say, "I can relate to that."
I try to never say, "You should..." Instead, I say, "You could try..."
I don't know. As I said, I don't have capacity to understand where you're coming from. But, those are some of the key things that help me get and keep companionship. If you can apply them, they may help you. It does take effort and mindfullness.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday July 31 2017, @10:59AM (11 children)
Sorry, that explains how you keep companionship, just as I described elsewhere in this thread. It does not explain how you get companionship. Everything you mention "tell jokes", "engage people on their level", "watch for cues" assumes that you are already with someone.
A scenario : you move into a new city for a new job. You don't know anyone except the guys you work with. It's engineering so they are mostly or all men, and you have very little occasion to deal with the few young women around (maybe in admin) and when you do they treat you with stony contempt. Anyway, your boss would frown on you chatting to girls in the corridors as the work is intense, although the guy who cleans the toilets can do it.
You go to a bar or public dance and approach a girl. For no obvious reason (I'm not that bad-looking) they tell you to fuck off. If they are polite they just turn walk away. Is that the sort of "cue" you mean?
It's Xmas and the department party. Some of those girls clerks will be there and you make up your mind to talk to a particular one. She turns up with three guys in tow already; you have never even seen them before and they are probably from the works, not the office, but no-one questions their presence. Anyway there are only about 6 girls and 50 men in the room, and among 50 men there are bound to be at leat six who are more charming and chatty than I am. In fact it is the middle-aged men who monopolise the girls because they know by experience how to talk to women.
The only girls I ever "met" for more than about 5 seconds were through a dating club (pre-internet).
(Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Monday July 31 2017, @11:56AM (1 child)
Not true. I'm solitary & single, but if an employee or volunteer sees me enough times to recognize my face (which doesn't take long), they invariably greet me with a very friendly "hey, how's it going?" when they see me, and chat for several minutes as soon as they get the chance. (I think it's just that my autistic eye-contact is "stare in their eye" type, I smile/laugh easily, they can apparently tell I'm genuinely interested in what they have to say, and I don't say a heck of a lot beyond quick humorous anecdotes or quips once I get a feel for their sense of humor.)
OTOH if you put me into a situation where there's a lot of noise and/or strangers asking me questions I'm not expecting, rather than one where I can let them do the talking, then I'm more likely to freeze up and bomb.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday July 31 2017, @01:05PM
Lucky you. No girl my own age ever did that. I see it happen in films sometimes but it seems so unrealistic.
I'm wondering though if you are a girl? I have had some attractive and charming GFs (met in the dating club as I said) and if they were not directly with me (or even if they were) they could hardly cross a room without some guy intercepting them with a chat-up line. The girls were so used to it they just brushed it aside as part of life and would generally grumble to me about it.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday July 31 2017, @12:33PM (3 children)
Talk to the married guys in your group. If your work is strictly 22-26 yr old brogrammers then GTFO ASAP for numerous reasons. Or ask the married guys at church or something. Some of the more laid back non-denominationals don't require you to believe in anything other than progressive politics, which is kinda funny.
The point is chicks live in an alternative universe. "Morlocks" and "Eloi" was a social commentary on men and women, not solely social class or race.
Once I got married my wife started dragging me to all kinds of "chick events". Scrapbooking store, scrapbooking trade show, craft store, craft store classes... Going to the gym cardio bunny classes as a single guy is being a creep, going with your wife is so cute, being my wingman so I'm not the only straight guy there, is being a loyal bro which the girls will respect. Oh another thing your local education system will have community education free or cheap non-credit classes. I took Japanese (and forgot it all, but the gender ratio was awesome) and some cooking classes (ditto). Even if you can, don't take classes at 11am because those are all retirees, unless you're into older women. Take the classes at "date night" time like "Learn Italian Cooking" Thursday at 6:30pm. You want a lab-partner class not a sit and listen to lectures class, so cooking classes are far superior to language classes, although in language classes if you ask the wrong question you'll get the benefit of doubt, mostly. You can get away with sounding silly if you ask her out for coffee in bad Japanese but you can't get away with asking if she likes tentacles or something like that.
If you live in a civilized suburb there will be a highly active parks and rec dept to entertain the kids, which spills over into groups for everyone of all ages, and the parks and rec dept where I live sponsors adult leagues in all kinds of sports, softball, soccer, volleyball, dodgeball, a bunch others. You don't have to know what you're doing. Half the people there are looking for a spouse, the other half are trying to get away from their spouse, and another half just enjoy a socially acceptable excuse to get drunk after the game. So avoid the alcoholics and the married chicks and you'll have fun. Obviously there's more girls playing slow pitch softball than overhand baseball, etc. Volleyball and dodgeball have more women than men, mostly.
Long before I met my wife I used to go to craft stores and ask women to help me pick out a gift for my mom. This was shockingly successful. This also keeps you on mom's good side. I suppose sister or auntie or secret santa would work, etc.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday July 31 2017, @05:31PM (2 children)
Just curious, is this how all "successful with women" men think and act? Because reading this gave me the icks. I have to wonder how the hell are there 7+ billion of us if this is how the hetero mating game is played. No doubt you think of yourself as a Morlock rather than one of the Eloi?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday July 31 2017, @09:12PM (1 child)
OP wanted a target rich environment with the implication that a target rich environment is not where OP is.
You may not like my unique writing style; that's cool; but my observations seem accurate answering where the women are.
There is an alternative for "successful with women" which is along the lines of "get em drunk at the bar and have fun" frat bro stuff, but presumably OP isn't a drinker or he'd already know, and I I never got into that bar scene.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday August 01 2017, @05:41PM
It isn't your "unique writing style" you slimy redpilling shitweasel, it's your dehumanization of women. We are not a different species, the interaction between the sexes is not and should not be approached as an adversarial manner, and just the choice of the phrase "target-rich environment" is telling me more about you than I suspect you wanted to reveal.
Why is it so FUCKING HARD for so many men to just treat women like people?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by KGIII on Monday July 31 2017, @01:53PM
No, those are how you get companionship as well. You meet them by doing things people do. You can meet them grocery shopping, walking, etc... Just don't assume they all are open to contact beyond a friendly hello. Watch for cues and listen to them. Go take dancing lessons, for example. You're not there to become a great dancer, you're there to socialize. Socializing may lead to dating, but don't assume it will. I keep saying not to assume, because that's the mindset. You're there to socialize, dating is a bonus and uncertain.
It's not something I've ever had issues with. Maybe you're being too earnest? Relax, maybe? If you put yourself out there, it may help. You could try just spending all your free time finding ways to be around people. You could join clubs, groups, and all sorts of stuff like that. In my experiences, conversation comes before dating. I don't do this with the goal of dating them, I do this with the goal of enabling them to be comfortable and happy. I dunno? It works for me.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday July 31 2017, @07:04PM (3 children)
I feel like I can relate to some of this, but honestly it sounds like you have some kind of issue if young women (in admin or whatever) treat you with "stony contempt". Maybe you have a really angry face or something? I had to train myself a bit in my younger years to look happier and be more friendly in interacting with random people, and it works well. I certainly don't have issues with "stony contempt", and girls seem to like talking with me at times, the problem is getting from friendly idle chat to something more meaningful.
So for girlfriends (and my last marriage--what a mistake...), my method of meeting women has been online dating. That's how I *get* companionship. Other venues just haven't worked with a damn. I've written about this many, many, many times before in various forums like this, but in my analysis the places where men go to meet women typically are (not necessarily in order):
1) school (/college)
2) church
3) work
4) bars/clubs
5) through friends/family
6) through activities
7) on the street/in public
8) online dating
#1 is probably out for most of us; once you're out of college, it's no longer an option. It does seem to me that the best relationships are made in college: the happiest married couples seem like they met in college. At that young, but not too-young age, people are probably more mature than in high school (so they don't make such idiotic relationship choices as much), but still have malleable personalities so they can "grow into" each other. That's my theory anyway.
#2 isn't much help if you aren't religious. I was told by my ex-wife (who was religious--big mistake!) many times that in the churches she went to, single women frequently outnumbered single men 10-to-1, and the preacher told them to only date people in the church because of some crap about being "equally yoked". My advice: do not date anyone who has a different religion from yourself, and religious people shouldn't date non-religious people. It's just too much of an issue.
#3 is a big problem in this industry for obvious reasons.
#4 only works well if you like to drink a lot and like to go to bars a lot. Personally, I don't. I don't really drink (I can drink a little bit of wine now and then to relax, but that's not something you do at a bar), and I don't really like crowds of talking people very much. I have a hard time understanding speech in noisy environments anyway. Plus, if you fake it to meet someone, you'll end up dating someone who wants to drink a lot, so not a good match. Personally, I'd say that if you're a non-drinker and non-churchgoer, your chances of finding a decent female partner in the US are not very good. In my experience, American women come in two main flavors: religious nuts, or heavy drinkers (with some overlap). Very, very few of them are negative on both of these. Consequently, I seem to date and get a lot of interest from Asian-born women...
#5 Meeting women through family might work if you have family that you really get along great with. If you're the black sheep or otherwise totally unlike them, forget it. My extended family are rural-dwellers, I'm not. I almost never see them. Meeting women through friends might work if you have a lot of friends or something; I don't (who has time? Can't have lots of friends and also have time for geeky projects), plus for anyone this is likely to yield a limited source of potential matches, unless you go through friends really fast. According to articles I've seen about this very topic, this factor has gone way, way down in recent decades.
#6 If you're new in a city, this is probably one of your 2 best bets. Get on meetup.com and join some groups that interest you. You might meet someone through those. Of course, if you only join D&D groups or something, maybe not... Personally I like hiking a lot, so I've done that a fair amount, and have frequently been on hikes where the women outnumbered the men 3-1. Unfortunately, in this area it seemed like most of the women were retirement-aged... But it's worth a shot. It's never yielded anything for me however.
#7 Do people actually do this? Maybe in movies...
#8 This is where I've met ALL my post-college dates, and my ex-wife.
In your case, I'd recommend maybe seeing a counselor to try to find out why you immediately turn off people and get some coaching or something, and then try online dating with OKCupid. Also try Meetup. Finally, look for a new job if your work is so "intense" that you can't chat with people in the hallway without your boss getting mad. Don't waste your time at bars; those girls can probably tell right away that you're not part of that group. Also, if you're still in your 20s, just get used to being single; that's the worst age for single men as women usually want someone older. Or if you live near a University, try getting involved in some activities that would put you in contact with college girls (this probably doesn't apply to you personally; if you used a dating club pre-internet, that probably puts you in your mid-40s or above).
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Monday July 31 2017, @08:05PM (2 children)
Just to be clear, I am middle-aged and married. I am describing my past experiences and commenting that most advice is totally off-target, certainly for me at the time. But of course this discussion is useful for others and your advice has a lot of sense in it.
The only girls I ever dated were via a dating club. I soon concluded that any other way, though it might work eventually, was a demoralising waste of time. It was a horrible period of my life that one is supposed to enjoy. The thing about hobby clubs is that they are mostly older people and anyway they might have joined eg an art club because they are actually just interested in art. I have been in such clubs and usually the only women are the middle-aged wives of other members.
Family? - date my cousin?! Friends? - my friends were all male and hobby related : we only ever "socialised" at hobby meets. If there had been a girl there they'd be outnumbered 20:1, but there weren't any. Such friends were hardly likely to introduce me to any girl - they didn't know any themselves. My mother was angry when she realised I'd joined a dating club : she said I should only date girls I "knew already", but of course there were none. One of the daftest things she ever said - but she came from a different age. But a lot of people seem to share that attiude "A dating club??!! - but you might meet strangers!! Aaaargh!"
But once you date a girl you actually start to meet others too. One GF I had, who was one of the prettiest girls I have ever seen, like the actress Fairuza Balk in The Craft but better (but sooo dull), turned out to have three sisters of similar age and beauty. I saw a world which seemed to have conspired to exclude me.
You talked of religion and Asian girls. One GF was a Muslim Malay, very pretty, shy and deferential; I don't think the religion would have been a problem. She was 27 and I was the first BF she'd had; her father was a senior official in Penang so she was not a gold-digger. But I met my future wife in the same "batch" of dating club introductions and I had to choose fast; sometimes I think ..... Most of the GFs I had were not high fliers, or downright working-class, and I think that is a better choice. I never looked for an intellectual sparring partner, I get enough grey cell excercise at work.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday July 31 2017, @10:06PM
The thing about hobby clubs is that they are mostly older people
I have to differ on this one. First of all, here in the DC area there's a bunch of "maker" clubs and other such things on Meetup which seem to have a lot of younger guys. Of course, those kind of clubs aren't much help for finding a date if you're in your 20s-40s.
But the hiking clubs I mentioned, and have some experience with, absolutely seem to function as singles mixers, though they have all ages. Most of the attendees seemed to be single, and it sure seemed like a lot of the people were there to mingle and chat with members of the opposite sex, and they did a lot (I talk in past tense because I have a gf now and haven't been on one of these hikes in a while). Now as I said before, they have all ages, and it did seem like a lot of people were 50+ (though in great shape I'll add), but again they seemed to be looking to mingle.
that most advice is totally off-target, certainly for me at the time.
I totally agree; I've heard plenty of such useless advice myself, like this:
My mother was angry when she realised I'd joined a dating club : she said I should only date girls I "knew already",
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 01 2017, @05:48AM
I sure wish I had lived closer to my cousins. They were mighty fine. I would definitely have gone for them.
Bonus: you already know the in-laws.
(Score: 2) by Nuke on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:14PM (14 children)
Don't know about the USA, but in the UK weddings have become so ridiculously elaborate that couples are put off getting married.
If you read descriptions of marriages in Victorian times, eg in the novels of Dickens and Hardy, the couple just walked into a church and got married, taking in with them some random loiterer from the street to act as the witness. They did not even have an appointment. Today people expect a marriage to be like a celebrity event and to cost accordingly. Some acquaintences of mine have held their weddings in Florida, Venice or The Bahamas (and expect the guests to get themselves there). Couples who cannot afford such an event are too embarrassed to have a wedding.
Added to that, many or most would-be weddings are of couples who have already lived together for some time, so a wedding would just be an ordinary party and not a rite of passage, and therefore rather pointless as a wedding.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:44PM (6 children)
Low cost shouldn't be an embarrassment. It should be something to be proud of. Embarrassment is what you should get from living together unmarried. What has gone wrong in your values??? You're also throwing away the easier and safer half of the woman's fertility; some have difficulty conceiving at 28 and the risk of defects goes way up.
I was dirt cheap, and I mostly wish I'd been even cheaper.
We rented a cheap place. I think it was something like a VfW or Knights of Columbus hall. There was no alcohol. We didn't hire a photographer. We did get a "proper" wedding dress and cake. We did pot luck because my father-in-law somehow thought that it would be less embarrassing than pizza. I let my father-in-law be the DJ, leading to an unwelcome surprise Jewish blessing.
Fixes: Get pizza. Get an angelfood cake instead of the standard tasteless foofy nonsense. Get a plain cheap ordinary white dress that won't drag on the ground. Ask my uncle to bring his camera; the in-laws are worse photographers than wild baboons are. Consider hiring a DJ.
So, with or without the fixes, that was a few hundred dollars in 1999. To compare, I suppose it was: 2 days of pay for me (beginning software developer), 6 days of pay for minimum wage, or 1 day of pay for an experienced software developer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:48PM (4 children)
Why? Not participating in some social ritual is not necessarily embarrassing to a rational person. Why not just do a rain dance instead of getting married and then pretend that that's your version of marriage?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:22PM (3 children)
Whether it is a homosexual couple, or any of the myriad of poly relationships, there are tons of nontraditional family units that can't get a wedding. And if you look at how messy and common divorces are, you might better understand why more people aren't getting married. It is less embarassing being a single mom out of wedlock for many today than it is to be a divorcee. And many women now are even going the AI or one night stand route to pregnancy so they can have a child early without holding the man responsible (bad idea for the man in case she ever requests financial aid from the government, but so long as she doesn't, nor demand child support/identify him as the father, good for her!)
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 31 2017, @05:48AM
There's nothing really nice about it. But in our world -- with the long courts and with the vicious lawyers, and with all of the problems -- if you have money or if you think you're going to have money, you have to have a prenuptial agreement. A prenup is an ugly instrument. It’s a hard, painful, ugly tool. Believe me, there’s nothing fun about it, but you'd better have one. There comes a time when you have to say, "Darling, I think you’re magnificent, and I care for you deeply, but if things don’t work out, this is what you’re going to get." Prenups have made my marriages stronger. If I didn't have mine, I would not own all these beautiful buildings. 🇺🇸
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday July 31 2017, @07:18PM
And many women now are even going the AI or one night stand route to pregnancy so they can have a child early without holding the man responsible (bad idea for the man in case she ever requests financial aid from the government,
My understanding is that for AI, they can't do this; sperm donors have legal protection from this. One-night stands, however, do not. Keep it wrapped.
I've heard about a ton of women around my age going the AI route; it really makes me worry. I was raised by a single mom, and it really wasn't the greatest experience. I guess it's better than growing up in an abusive household or something, but I think it's bad to deprive kids of seeing a loving adult relationship, and to get too used to being home alone and seeing singledom as normal. On top of that, many of these women are still looking for men to date; having a kid by yourself will immediately kill most of your chances on the dating market, so they're shooting themselves in the foot IMO on that front.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 01 2017, @01:51PM
Yea, I was hearing that Deep Blue has been getting around lately now that chess is out and Go is in and he has more time to socialize. Good for him.
(Score: -1, Troll) by fakefuck39 on Monday July 31 2017, @04:25AM
you're really showing your white trash blue collar. you haven't had the good things in life, so you make up facts about them to convince yourself they're bad. let me guess - you think expensive wine tastes the same as woodbridge too, but in your life you've had one glass of the good stuff after you were already drunk.
why a band instead of a dj? because a band is a show, a dj is a douche. no moron, angelfood cake is what is tasteless - the big hand-crafted cake is not only delicious, but pleasant to look at - a show. The wedding dress that drags on the ground is a show. The wedding ceremony is a show. You go to a show because it's pretty and memorable, and different and glamorous. your wedding was an average wednesday that no one will remember. if you don't want a show, have a gathering of friends at your house and chat over a pizza while vlc is on shuffle. just don't call it a wedding.
as far as you being embarrassed by living together unmarried - that should have been last. it sums up perfectly your loser bland uncolorful cardboard existence. but nigga please, don't try to validate yourself by passing off your mistake of a life to the rest of us as the proper example. if you want a wedding, have what us normal people actually call a wedding and a memorable beautiful event, or just don't have a wedding and go get your papers signed at city hall, then have some friends over to hang and congratulate you. When I want steak, I'm going to get a nice rare steak. If I can't afford that, I'm not going to go for shitty veiny tendon and fat Denny's hockey puck. I'll just have a delicious hot dog. Both options are fine. A compromise between a hot dog and a steak is not - we'd end up with your life, and no one in their right mind would want that.
(Score: 2) by tibman on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:17PM (1 child)
You're right. When my wife and i were looking to get married we quickly realized it was stupid expensive. Get a car or get married. But you are required to do something by law (where we are). So we did a Justice of the Peace thing at the local courthouse. We even had two hecklers in the courtroom waiting to be tried or something. Then threw a huge sleep-over party at an Airbnb loft that had something like 11 beds. We only invited friends. Inviting family seems to be where the wedding thing spirals out of control as far as costs go. Just send your family nice photos instead, hah.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:19PM
We did the 'vegas chapel' thing. Suddenly people who did not want to show wanted to go. I can't blame them where I lived sucked. We made it clear show or don't no obligations.
We quickly were at 15-20k for just the 'small wedding'. We did the whole vegas trip, honeymoon at a fun theme park, gambling, and first class flights all for well under 10k. 3 weeks of fun and went to a few places we normally would never goto.
The whole thing went from uber complex dreary thing to simple and fun with that one decision.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @01:35AM
> (and expect the guests to get themselves there)
Canadian friends got married on top of Mt. Kilimanjaro (Africa), they managed to find a preacher and a few hardy relatives to walk up with them. I was invited, but have a bum foot, would never have made it up.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @04:10AM
There is a reason for that. The rich people of Victorian times did have elaborate marriages and full-on female politics and expensive gifts and dinners. There are multiple novels talking about people doing nothing but getting married. Victorian morals gave immense importance to chastity and longevity of marriages. The poor people though, were fully divorced from this. They used to have cheap marriages, wanton unplanned pregnancies, multiple divorces.
In last 100 years, the poors have been 'uplifted' to rich and rich women have been 'empowered' aka feminism to demand more rights for not being allowed to act like poor women. There is that diamond business too, a one-time tangible measure of your love, along with the mental pressure of losing it all forever. Marriages are now a serious business, and hence normal people are avoiding it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @04:41AM
People put on such a show! Glitter and pretense. Couples who have simple, humble weddings often last longer together - even unto death do us part - which is the actual idea of "marriage". What is "in fashion" is easy-in easy-out relationships as people think they can live with no moral depth to their lives. Later on, they are disappointed but its generally too late to fix by then. Nothing "old fashioned" about good values. Just that they have been under systematic attack from the Liberals, PETA, feminism, etc, etc for decades.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Monday July 31 2017, @12:40PM
I think the money is in certainty of perfection. If you pay $5K for a hall with catering you'll have food and a roof over your head and HVAC and the DJ will actually show up. I've been to a couple weddings that were more like "flash mob a county park" and when it rains its memorable and not in a good way.
One rite of passage that makes weddings very expensive is the old game of outspending your neighbor to show off that you can. That's how you end up with mortgage sized weddings. And speaking of neighbors, outspending your neighbors is also how you end up with McMansion houses.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @03:32PM
Men could marry female children in Victorian times. Another plus
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:21PM (5 children)
Don't worry, Bezos and Zuck and Musk are all married and they all have children. The billionaires are doing just fine. Poor people please die. The world doesn't need you or your children.
(Score: 4, Disagree) by julian on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:09PM (4 children)
Poor people are, as ever, having more children than the billionaires; both in total number of children and in children per woman. It's one of the reasons they tend to stay poor.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @02:38AM
Given https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate [wikipedia.org]
Elon Musk must be really poor, that damn guy has 6 kids. Well above average for Western countries (or many places). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk [wikipedia.org]
And Jeff Bezos has 4. Still above average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos [wikipedia.org]
Mark Suckerbgerb only 1 and another one on the way, yet more than average for some Western countries but not all (easy when many are below 2). We will see if they go for 3, 4... later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg [wikipedia.org] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscilla_Chan_(philanthropist) [wikipedia.org]
Maybe you were talking of different billionaries than GP.
(Score: 2) by fraxinus-tree on Monday July 31 2017, @12:12PM (2 children)
It is more or less a hourglass distribution.
Rich people (who generally tend to be more clever, educated and self-aware than average, or else they usually stop being rich) have both understanding that children are important (both as being responsibility and that you have to have them) AND perception that they can grow them. The number of their children is limited by their own perception of a proper family
Poor people (most of them being poor for a reason) just have sex for pleasure and get children just as they get debt, traffic tickets and likes - out of ignorance and not caring at all. The number of their children is limited by their general and reproductive health.
It is the middle class who are in trouble. They have the same understanding that kids are important (as those who are rich), have means, intent and self-awareness for "family planning"(unlike the poor), but lack the perception that they can successfully support a healthy number of kids. So they have 1 or 2.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Magic Oddball on Monday July 31 2017, @01:31PM (1 child)
Factually speaking:
The rich tend to stay rich in large part because they hire top-notch accountants/lawyers/etc. to invest & manage their finances for them, and as a result get more than enough money from the investments than they need to live even an extravagant lifestyle — the vast majority show no sign of being more than bog-average in terms of intellect.
The poor (which includes me) tend to stay poor for several reasons. A big one is the fact that the cost of living has increased rapidly over the past 50 years while wages have stagnated or decreased — the federal minimum wage, for example, hit its peak way back in 1968. Another is that when you've got very little money to spend, you can't save by buying in bulk and have to buy cheap low-quality/secondhand items that wear out faster; with a low income, the relatively small amount you can manage to save each month gets wiped out by the need to repair/replace things or handle other emergencies.
If you become disabled or unemployed for too long (which can happen to almost anyone), you'll learn that fun little reality, too.
Schools are also a problem. In poverty-stricken areas, good students are likely to have classes with kids who barely understand English, have serious behavioral problems due to mental health issues, or who are otherwise disruptive (including due to undiagnosed learning disabilities), and the teachers are primarily either inexperienced or not good enough to get jobs in other schools — so even with decent funding, the quality of the classes is abysmal. Most of the kids don't have breakfast before school and their lunch/dinner isn't particularly nutritious, so they're hampered by fatigue. In inner cities, most of the students have clearly-diagnosable PTSD from the gang violence in their neighborhoods, so they're additionally distracted & not sleeping well.
You can be a bright, driven kid, but after seeing several other kids killed by stray bullets, not sleeping well, not getting enough nutrition, then going to school in a classroom where the lessons are constantly interrupted to translate for the non-English kids & tell the troublemakers to behave themselves, you're likely to have If you don't, there's the issue of the school not having any of the honors or advanced-placement classes recommended to qualify for grants or scholarships or get into a really good university...
Then there's reproduction. First problem, of course, is that public schools in religiously conservative areas limit 'sex ed' to telling the kids to never have sex, not how to avoid getting pregnant when they eventually do. The kids end up not knowing how to put on a condom properly or how to take birth control pills so they'll work, and pick up dumb myths about the whole mess from their peers.
But let's assume the poor person is a non-parent. Condoms are expensive at a low income (plus some men won't wear them), so let's assume the woman is taking birth control pills. She'll have to co-pay for birth control pills, co-pay to see the gynecologist every year or two, plus they have to use one of her few unpaid sick days off for the appointment. Of course, if she has no sick days, she can't go to the appointment (thus no pills), and if the insurance doesn't cover BCP then she's stuck covering the full cost. If the pill fails and she gets pregnant anyway (which does happen), she'll now need an abortion: if the insurance doesn't cover it, that's at least another $500 she might not have, she'll need to take at least one day off work, and if she's in the South she may need to travel quite a ways to reach a place that offers abortions — which means risking losing her job, assuming she can scrape together the money for travel.
In the worst poverty-stricken areas, the kids see the adults working their asses off without ever getting ahead regardless of whether they have kids or not, so unless they're among the brightest & most driven students who actually escape to college, they see having sex & babies as the one way to get something "good" in their lives.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 01 2017, @02:02PM
Annnnd....this is why we need more boots on the ground warfare. Instead of kids, you could get a medal of honor! or at least a purple heart.
Of course, the military pushes you to have more kids with very sizeable raises both for marriage and each future rifle carrier you manufacture, so we might really need to ensure high casualty battles to offset this whole thing. WWI seemed to be the style that was best suited for managing population growth; after all, it resulted in the foundation of the French Foreign Legion.
Time to start digging trenches.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Justin Case on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:26PM (5 children)
I think I got banned because I asked the bride if she was into threesomes.
But come on, how are you supposed to know if you don't ask?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:05PM (4 children)
It wasn't the comment about the threesomes. Women are crafty enough to know they can simply lie to you about the possibility of threesomes.
Your mistake was giving a cheap wedding gift. All women are gold diggers and you stated your value to the bride by spending an insufficient amount of money on your gift. Money is the only thing that matters to a woman.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:09PM (1 child)
Money is the only thing that matters to a woman
Dont hang around douchbags. Both sexes can be douchbags. Most people are douchbags. It took me years to find a non douchbag person to get married to.
The tests are pretty easy.
Loan them small amounts of money. Do they pay you back. If not they are terrible at money and think little of you.
Do they pay their own bills on time? If not they are terrible at money. Also if they can screw over a stranger a 'loved one' is easier prey.
Do they have a job? Is it because they want one are 'gawd I only have this so I can live'. If so they know what it takes to make money. Or do they wander from one person to another trying to find 'enough'.
Is their house/apt clean? If so they can take care of the house. Lazy is lazy. You can not fix it.
Do they eat take out all the time? If so they may not be good at money and probably can not cook.
Do you agree on politics/religion? Most fights start here but are hiding the above reasons.
Do you have similar sex drives? If you are horny all the time and your partner is not into it they will resent you.
These rules apply for both parties.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:38PM
Or vice versa.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:11PM (1 child)
Says somebody who obviously is bitter about not being able to make enough money. But it isn't really all about money. A real man can give a woman what she wants materially, physically, and emotionally. It used to be called "love" but it's painfully old fashioned and out of style these days.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @01:57AM
Or maybe he's bitter about losing big in some divorce court, hearing about other men losing big in divorce court, or bitter about some other unfortunate events he may have heard about. You're not a mind reader, so don't pretend to be one.
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:34PM (3 children)
I don't think marriage has gone out of fashion. Perhaps people have just become somewhat more reasonable? I know it is unlikely but instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for one big party and a stupid dress she will wear once they go smaller and spend the rest of the money on something that is actually useful and will benefit them in the long run like a, down-payment for a, house or an apartment. That or they don't have money to spend on some extravagant feast with hundreds of invited guests they don't really care about. But that shouldn't stop them from getting married, it doesn't really have to cost anything or very much.
I don't think I have been to a big fancy expensive wedding for about 15 years or so. The once after that have been small events with/for close personal friends and family. The cheapest one I have been to being a gathering at a municipal building to sign the papers and then dinner at a restaurant. I guess as one grow older there is also that moment of calm when you realize that most of your immediate family is already married and so are most of your close friends. There are just less and less people you care about that you have to go to weddings for. Perhaps they are waiting for me to get married -- sucks to be them then cause they'll be waiting for a really long time for that.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Gaaark on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:25PM (2 children)
For my daughter and son-in-law (not 'officially married', but legally married (common-law)) it is all about money: they are both paying off school debt while trying to save for a house (he's hoping to find a place they can flip... in Canada (or only Ontario?) you have to live in the place for a year before you can resell without taking a capital gains tax hit (or something like that: not a legal/realty/tax expert).
They'd have gotten married by now if it wasn't for the school debt.
They've been living with us for the past (3-4) years in order to save money: and we've been scrimping and saving in order to help them with money so they COULD move out, lol.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:36PM
Funny how you try to spin as your son-in-law the man who is shacking up with your daughter while she is still living in your basement.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:15PM
He's not going to buy a cow if he gets the milk for free.
You can at least give them a deadline, say in 4 weeks, to get hitched. Toss him out if he won't.
Ontario lets you get married via a banns form that you get from a church. This could be free. If you really hate church, then you'll need to pay for a licence which costs about $125. (Just how broke are they???) Church can be free; do that.
Well, that's it. $0 to get married. It is totally free.
Be sure to get her last name corrected.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @06:34PM (9 children)
Thanks to the Internet, young men are now able to find out that marriage is a bad deal, from both risk-reward and cost-benefit perspectives.
The female instinctively seeks to curtail the male's sexuality. In exchange, she promises to satisfy those needs herself. This promise however is rapidly forgotten as she buries the male in chores and offspring. Should he start to get wise, she simply clips off half of his assets and rolls the dice again. That is, if she doesn't put him in jail for alleged spousal rape, an accusation for which no proof is necessary, because "believe the victim".
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:14PM (7 children)
No wonder she dumped you, bro! You are a businessman, not a lover or husband! Well, I hope you make lots of money, and get to keep it all, Scrooge!
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:18PM
A husband is just a workhorse to generate money to pay for a lover which is a vibrator.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:00PM (5 children)
Protip: Insulting men who don't do what women want does not make you a more attractive woman.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @08:36PM (4 children)
Pro-er tip: Assuming that it is a woman insulting these worthless MRA types does not make you attractive to anyone! It is real men who are insulting your cowardly craven ass of a knave, you self-engrossed man-child psychopath! Real men who may have to just show you what it is like to be a disrespected object of other's depraved desires!!
(Score: 2) by Sulla on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:07PM
*tips trilby*
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @02:06AM (1 child)
Are you by chance a fan of No True Scotsman fallacies? Because unless you're referring to biological sex, there is no concrete definition of what a "real man" is. You might be as stupid as the MRA manbabies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 01 2017, @02:26PM
Generally, when people are talking about "real" men, it comes down to two types: one group talks about men who adhere to a code of honor, and in so doing provide for their families, protect those in need of it (exactly who this extends to tends to vary, as some wouldn't feel it necessary to protect the weak among an out-group, others would), and who speak the inconvenient truth, except perhaps when doing so would endanger those they are sworn to protect (family, country, etc). The other camp seems to be roughly the polar opposite, claiming real manhood is derived from not being beholden to the directives of anyone but oneself, and from taking what one wants from wherever he can get it.
It'd be really handy if people could start specifying which one they mean. It's a shame the word "niding" has fallen out of use, but perhaps knave could suffice as that latter group.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @03:28PM
Us, knaves, are welcoming in the muslims with open arms. They allow child arraignment of girls, unlike english-language-Jesus.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by kaszz on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:28PM
Right on.
If you want sex, there's other ways.
If kids are what is sought, you will loose them by default at the whim of a bad day.
If companionship is sought, there are better ways.
And you can't contract love. It's silly. So the point is a contract to oblige you into wage slavery. The banks and corporations love it!
Marriage is simple a deal that won't make sense in many rational aspects.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by LoRdTAW on Sunday July 30 2017, @07:54PM (4 children)
I'm in my late 30's. I have never had a strong urge or desire to marry. I also don't have a strong desire to even have a relationship. Out of my small but close knit group of five "core" friends, three are married, most with kids. Of the three married, two have children, one with five kids and the other two. The remaining married couple does not want kids. Of my two unmarried friends, one can't seem to get his shit together relationship wise. The other doesn't give two shits about a relationship.
Other things I've noticed by observation:
Cultural changes in which people aren't as inclined to marry young.
Some put marriage off to enjoy life, travel, and "party". Essentially they stay younger, longer.
Some put it off to finish schooling and establish careers; perhaps while paying off schooling debts.
With women becoming more equal in society, they don't NEED to get married so they hold off as well.
And lastly, weddings are stressful events that two of my friends chose to avoid. One friend had a pretty fancy wedding on a beach front venue that cost north of $30k. Who the fuck wants to spend what amounts to a yearly salary for some people in a single day?
Of the two who chose to go small: one couple went to the court and just got married like it was no big deal. The other did a really nice small event where they did a little court house gathering in the chapel consisting of close friends and family, about 25 people total. Then off to their parents house in the country for a big back yard blowout. No catering, venues, churches, photographers, event planners, staff, no nonsense. Home cooked food prepared by both mothers, and the fathers grilled various meats. Some people bought food and deserts, and there was lots of booze. Music was from a boom box hooked to a streaming app on someones phone. There must have been about 60 people there and everyone had a fantastic time. That right there was the best wedding I ever attended. It was small, casual, and cost almost nothing. That's how it should be done.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @03:17AM
I might spend $30,000 if I had about $10,000,000 by net worth and by liquid assets. It's a matter of spending 0.1% to 1% of what you have. Add or remove several digits if you are a billionaire or thousandaire.
Women are increasingly unsatisfied with life. Many of them are unable to feel attracted to a man who earns less or is less educated, and the men have generally soured on the whole legal situation, so marriage isn't happening. That doesn't get rid of the human emotional need for a family, which is especially strong in women. The fertile years go by, the women become undesirable, and we get a lot of cat ladies. Cats partially fill an emotional need for babies.
One way or another, this situation won't last. The people who have kids will pass their behavior on to the next generation, via both DNA and culture. We may end up with stupid people, universal Islam, or an instinctive passion for making lots of kids.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @05:14AM
My wedding was quite the affair. Yes a bit stressful, I feel like I might enjoy a second wedding more :) But I am only willing to cough up enough dough to buy a car on showing off to family and friends once (well twice if you consider actually buying a car to show off).
Feminism has all but ruined most women. I guess sad for them. Luckily I have never been attracted to the end result of feminism, and I have quite a keen sense at picking out the few gems out of the crowd of garbage. My wife is a rarity now a day: virtuous, conservative, obedient, and just all around amazing woman. And she won't take me to the cleaners because 1: I am the only man she has ever been with, or has desire for, and 2: she has somewhat more assets than me, so I be the one taking her to the cleaners. Plus I don't really plan on doing anything to fuck my marriage up, I seen what else is out there and it's slim pickings. For me it's this or I spend the rest of my life with a sex doll/bot. I have near zero desire to shag up with some edgy 20-something and use her like a cum-rag before she hits the wall and slits her wrists in a warm bath.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Monday July 31 2017, @10:12AM
I can identify with that. I didn't have a desire to get married either, and fully expected to never meet anyone who was attractive and bright and just dorky enough to put up with my geeky eccentricities. Then i was at a singles party on the Upper West Side of Manhattan that a friend dragged me to, and while on line to flee the incredibly overcrowded apartment the girl in line next to me commented that the place was like the cantina scene from Mos Eisley. I figured she was worth talking to more and 18 years later i'm still talking to her.
Being married has been a good thing. Joys are multiplied and sorrows are halved. Makes the journey of life far better than it would have been alone, hacking software in the dark. YMMV
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 01 2017, @02:47PM
Ahh, well, you're definitely coming up on the issue. Nobody wants to spend that much on their own wedding. And unlike in years past, fathers aren't so quick to spring to pay for their daughter's weddings anymore (speaking from experience here, as I'm financing my own wedding in lieu of more traditional funding). Back in the mid 90s, my sister got married, and you can bet my father paid the lion's share of that event, as providing one of the great joys of life is what you do for your children, and culturally, that takes the form of a wedding for your daughter.
Now, there are a lot of things going on here. For one, it's one thing to pay for your daughter's wedding when she's 18-22 and you're likely pulling in $75k or more a year, and the wedding costs in the ballpark of $15-20k. It's another entirely to spring for $30k when you're retired and she's 30. Beyond that, there's the matter of a general selfishness pervading our modern western society. First we cut off extended family as having any real importance back in the 20th century, but these days, after high school, even nuclear families are becoming little more than Christmas card buddies. Instead of springing to pay for your kids things, it's becoming more fashionable to hold onto that money alone in your retirement home while you rot into the ground, presumably in a coffin lined with money.
Likewise, it's this same trend pushing younger folks to not really want to be married in the first place. Gods forbid you have any responsibility to anyone other than yourself, and perhaps Uncle Sam (though, nobody goes around saying "my taxes should be higher!"...always "that rich guy's taxes should be higher!").
Marriage largely is an institution from a time when people relied upon each other in their families to provide for basic needs. Your cousins were the ones who helped you build your house, your parents were the ones who raised you and who you in turn took care of in old age, your spouse was the one who helped in running the household (among a long list of other things...which really helped prevent frivolous divorce), and your children were there to help in defending and avenging against any attacks on your family. In an age when nearly all of these roles are being handed off to the state or corporations, it's really not a surprise that weddings are happening less.
Whether or not this is a bad thing I suppose depends upon how you feel about your new family members, Bank of America, the NSA, Amazon, Walmart, etc.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:08PM
Went to the courthouse to make it legal.
Spent the rest of the budget on a round the world trip for two. Had a great time, and took wedding photos along the way.
Surprise! Those "destination weddings" can actually be cheaper than conventional weddings.
Looking at the divorce rate in the US, what type of wedding your wife wants may be of important predictive value.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Entropy on Sunday July 30 2017, @09:21PM (1 child)
Marriage is a beautiful thing, but divorce for someone that has any assets is tragic, life destroying, and often a multi-year painfest. Most of my successful male friends their divorce was the worst thing in their life....Personally I think this might have something to do with less people getting married.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:48PM
Around here defacto is the same as married so you lose your assets anyway
(Score: 3, Touché) by Hartree on Sunday July 30 2017, @10:35PM (1 child)
Because at my age, fewer of my long term friends are getting married than are dying off.
On the plus side, few people expect elaborate funeral gifts. ;)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday July 31 2017, @01:00PM
Funerals are a good analogy for weddings in that there's a whole infrastructure of people trying to sponge money off it, most events are boring and cheap, and all the media coverage is of the hyper-expensive famous ones in order to gaslight people into thinking they need to spend a zillion bucks. The music usually sucks. Also the star of the show is dressed up in a stereotypical manner unlike their normal attire. After all those similarities, in contrast, there's usually more sex after a wedding and half of weddings get annulled which is a higher "failure" rate than funerals.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @05:32AM (1 child)
When I was applying for my first real job after getting through undergrad, I was surprised that the grad students with me at interviews were all married. They were maybe a few years older than I was, but they were all married, and I couldn't imagine settling down like that in just a few years.
Having returned to university later, the difference was still present. People who didn't go to grad school spent years living with their boy/girl friends and then married around age 30. Grad students were often married by their second year in. I suppose it may be because of one partner being able to wangle a trailing-spouse job for the other once they graduated, besides obviously sharing a lot of the same experiences being in school together.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday July 31 2017, @07:40AM
I met my wife while we were both undergraduates. My father advised me to make sure to finish my degree before pursuing romance, so I proposed on her graduation day. We then moved to the city and started running a household, before moving back home and actually getting married. The wait was mainly because the place we wanted to get married was back home.
I'm the oldest of my generation, and much of my family are only siblings (few cousins) or abroad. The net result of this is that I'd only ever been invited to one wedding before my own, and that was my father re-marrying. As a couple in their fifties, it was a very low-key church wedding, with a meal for ~12 and the vicar at a nearby restaurant afterward.
A year later, my own wedding was held in a registry office with ~30 guests. There was an afternoon buffet for everyone nearby, and then those that could stay for the evening were invited by my in-laws to a garden bbq (neighbours invited there too). We spent ~£1,500 on the day, and half as much again on a week's honeymoon in Ireland.
Ten years after that graduation ceremony I'm back doing a post-grad course, and a father of two. Off the top of my head, in our research group of eight (post-docs, PhDs and Masters) three are married, and two have children.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 31 2017, @03:25PM
Men should take female children as brides, not adult whores.
See chapter 22 of the book of the law, verse 28-29, in the hebrew language for some insight.