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Original URL: World leaders abandoning human rights: Amnesty
World leaders are undermining human rights for millions of people with regressive policies and hate-filled rhetoric, but their actions have ignited global protest movements in response, a rights group said.
US President Donald Trump, Russian leader Vladimir Putin, and China's President Xi Jinping were among a number of politicians who rolled out regressive policies in 2017, according to Amnesty International's annual human rights report published on Thursday.
The human rights body also mentioned the leaders of Egypt, the Philippines and Venezuela.
"The spectres of hatred and fear now loom large in world affairs, and we have few governments standing up for human rights in these disturbing times," Salil Shetty, Amnesty's secretary-general, said.
"Instead, leaders such as el-Sisi, Duterte, Maduro, Putin, Trump and Xi are callously undermining the rights of millions."
[...] The regressive approach to human rights adopted by a number of world leaders has, however, inspired new waves of social activism and protest, Amnesty said, highlighting the example of the Women's March in January last year, which began in the US before becoming a global protest.
(Score: 5, Informative) by bradley13 on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:01PM (19 children)
While one may disagree with Trump's rhetoric, it's not even on the same planet as what's happening in Venezuela. Or take the new South African president, who is promising to confiscate white property and redistribute it to blacks (shades of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe). Or Turkey, where anyone Erdogan doesn't like gets locked up.
Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:23PM (10 children)
Yet if you want to lead the Western world, like the US always claims, you are expected to take the moral high ground. As a Western European I can tell you that the US currently doesn't have that. Not even a tiny little bit.
In my opinion this is not caused by Trump, by the way. After even a president like Obama couldn't change how the US behaves outside of its own borders (and, although I couldn't care less about that, inside its borders), it's clear to me that more is wrong. Something about a state in a state that has too much power and is as morally corrupt as anything can be. Such things.
But ok. I'm not going to rant about conspiracy theories or anything. The final result is, however, that the US has clearly lost its edge in the so called free world. It's also clear to me that increasingly are EU countries looking at, for example, China for their investments (and the other way around).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by https on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:50PM (1 child)
Your "state within a state" has a name: the military-industrial complex. Say it aloud while you still can.
Offended and laughing about it.
(Score: 2) by pvanhoof on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:31PM
I wasn't going to rant about conspiracy theories or anything.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:54PM (2 children)
To me, taking the moral high ground means:
People get freedom of speech. Europe doesn't have this. In the UK, say anything negative about muslims, and the police will come for you. In Germany, a simple "Heil Hitler!" is all it takes to put you in prison. In France, there has even been an effort to prosecute a presidential candidate for political speech.
People agree that western civilization is superior to arab, muslim, and african "civilization". The US has a few idiots, but Europe is bending over backwards for savages. Allowing them in, allowing them to retain their garbage cultures, and allowing them to outbreed you are all immoral.
People accept a right to defend oneself. This means shooting back as needed. While the US has bad spots (CA, MD, MA, HI) and Europe isn't 100% awful, the general trend is clear.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by pvanhoof on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:42PM (1 child)
Allowing people freedom of speech is not sufficient. You need to offer them your moral high ground on top. Heil Hitler in Germany won't really get you in jail, because the judge will look at the context of why you said that. Unless that context is hate speech, most EU country's judges wont care about you. Freedom of speech in itself isn't everything. You need a government that cares about its people. You need that much more than just freedom of speech.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @04:11PM
I agree that allowing people freedom of speech is not sufficient, but it is the first step. Only after people of EU can voice their concerns can EU governments start to care about their people. Most EU governments not only lack any care for their people, they actively work against them.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:22PM (4 children)
Anyone looking to China for enlightened global leadership or as a safer/better place to invest is an utter fool. They have codified xenophobia as a way of life for thousands of years. It's in their very DNA. The name of their country is "the middle kingdom," (zhongguo) and means more exactly "the country at the center of the Earth, light, civilization."
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by pvanhoof on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:54PM (2 children)
Yes well, the US has a variety of xenophobia-like concepts in their population and politics, too. I don't think Chinese people, or politics, are very much different than people in the US when it comes to that. Nor are Europeans very much different. Nor is that the point.
The point is that China is the next empire, and the US is not. The EU will need to have a deal with the next empire no matter what.
It's pragmatic realism or sometimes also called realpolitik.
The EU got gas from Russia during the Cold War, too. That, that was also realpolitik. The EU will still get Russian gas, by the way. That is also realpolitik.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:55AM (1 child)
Even on a realpolitik level China has a very long way to go. China doesn't have much in the way of real friends. North Korea is about it, but they're more an albatross.
Nobody speaks Chinese, so that quite limits how far they can project power through cultural hegemony. China has always practiced a China-first foreign policy, so that limits how many people want to emulate them or their values.
China has been building its military and tech, sure, but that means a repeat of the Cold War, not Chinese supremacy.
Also, let it not be forgotten or glossed over how fractious Chinese society is. It is riven by around a dozen deep social fissures to America's one. It doesn't take much going wrong for those to rise to the surface.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:10AM
. ...fractious Chinese society is...
Also:
How corrupt is it at all levels, everything happens with bribes.
Lack of rule of law (the local strongman often makes the local rules).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:53PM
the same can be said about USA, they have a whole industry on making profits deporting people btw
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Grishnakh on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:33PM (3 children)
Or Turkey, where anyone Erdogan doesn't like gets locked up.
Yet they're still good buddies of the US and the rest of NATO. If Italy started acting this way, would they still be as friendly?
(Score: 2) by pvanhoof on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:04AM (2 children)
Ever since Russia's Southstream pipeline will go through Turkey, isn't Erdogan good buddies with the US anymore. They are still buddies with the rest of NATO, though. The rest of NATO is to whom Turkey will sell all that Russian gas to. However, Turkey has been buying Russian made SAM systems. Didn't you notice? It has been all over the news.
You could even say that the whole point of Crimea being annexed by Russia had everything to do with the Southstream pipeline. And Turkey apparently has everything to do with that.
Liking Erdogan or not has very little to do with it.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Sunday February 25 2018, @01:22AM (1 child)
Turkey isn't really between Russia and the rest of Europe; it's too far south. Wouldn't it be easier to put a pipeline through other eastern European countries instead?
(Score: 2) by gawdonblue on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:31AM
Yep, through Ukraine. No worries.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:18PM
But, you're heading down that slippery slope: absolute power ...and all that.
Just watch: until you kick out of power all the people who have grabbed this power, you will continue to head downhill.
(Of course the new people will eventually take you there again because absolute power ....etc etc and all that.
Vive la revolution!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:36AM (1 child)
the new South African president, who is promising to confiscate white property and redistribute it to blacks
The phrase you're looking for is "return it".
The part that you left out is where the antecedents of the Whites there felt they had a right to take that stuff at gunpoint.
...because they had a flag. [google.com]
what's happening in Venezuela
The roots of that also go back centuries and involves White Europeans oppressing and subjugating the indigenous population.
...something which, via inherited wealth, continues to this day.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @01:32AM
The Disagree mod was intended to give you a chance to say WHY|WHERE you disagree.
When you don't add a reply, you're missing the point of this improvement to the Rehash codebase.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by ants_in_pants on Sunday February 25 2018, @06:32PM
I don't know, you can be executed in the street for essentially no reason and the killer can get away with it, and if the CIA reallly wants to they can disappear you and torture you however much they want. A larger share of the population is in prison(the conditions of which have, in other cases, been considered violations of basic human rights) than was ever in the Gulag system. Having a felony on your record, which in many states you can get just for having lots of pot, makes you a pariah. You have no rights less than 50 miles from a national border. ICE can and does strip away citizenship of naturalized citizens, then deport them. Gang violence is a real threat to far too many people. Economically the country is a lot more like Mexico than Germany. And to top it off bribes are legal and the government is very clearly more interested in receiving lots of bribes than in fixing any of these problems.
I don't think Cheetoh Benito is directly the cause of any of this, but he is certainly not helping.
-Love, ants_in_pants
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:14PM (6 children)
LOL extrajudicial executions
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:08PM
Thanks, Obama
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:18PM (4 children)
Running a trial in the USA is incredibly expensive. Usually it costs society many times more than the original crime.
Poor countries simply can't do that. They can do extrajudicial executions, or they can let organized crime grow until it is able to wipe out government.
To suggest that extrajudicial executions are wrong is to say "Let them eat cake."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @08:02PM
Or you just let the government grow and ignore the laws until it is organized crime. How very Judge Dredd of you.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:07AM (2 children)
You have it backwards. Rule of law is one of the big reasons rich countries are rich. Extrajudicial executions just makes the government another organized crime gang.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @01:11AM (1 child)
Throughout history, the major reason that rich countries are rich is Imperialism.
A willingness to invade a place and murder a bunch of folks and subjugate the rest is a keystone to prosperity.
These days, "regime change" via coups often accomplishes the same thing with lower costs|observability.
Blackmail via The World Bank, International Monetary Fund, World Trade Organization, US Trade Representative, The Troika, etc. can be even more cost-effective.
Since the invention of containerized shipping (and now, the internet), it's been especially easy to not only exploit the raw materials of far-away places, it's also easy to exploit the labor force there and just ship back finished goods.
...while calling your thing e.g. an "American" company.
Before that, there were centuries of enslavement of those indigenous peoples.
Nowadays, Capitalists don't even have to make sure that their workforce is adequately housed, fed, and healthy.
Just pay them a pittance and leave them to scrape by as best they can.
Workers in a Capitalist operation are easily replaceable.
...and when the Capitalist runs out of easily-exploitable labor in that place, then, once again, containerized shipping makes it easy to pack up the operation and move it to another place with easily-exploited labor.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:46AM
I disagree. Said "willingness" doesn't create an empire. You need to have massive infrastructure development as well (commercial, trade, legal, transportation, etc). And the present world is a demonstration that one doesn't need empires to generate that.
And such "exploitation" has been greatly beneficial for those far-away places. As I have noted [soylentnews.org] before, over the past half century, we've seen a massive improvement in the human condition with most parts of the world slowly surging to developed world status. That didn't happen because of "Imperialism".
Some highlights of that link: by a measure of extreme poverty, the total population of those living at that level of extreme poverty declined from over 2 billion in 1970 to around 700 million today. That's an absolute decline of a factor of three while population doubled over the same time period.
Another example is over the time period 1988-2008, two thirds of the entire world by income tier increased their income (adjusted for inflation) by 30% or more.
So what? The key is to make employers replaceable as well, not fuck over workers in a doomed attempt to get back at "Capitalists". And workers aren't going to work for less when they can work for more. So there's a minimum to what can be offered. My view is that the key is to encourage demand for labor. Then you get workers who aren't being paid a pittance.
There's only so much easily-exploitable labor in the world. I figure "the Capitalist" is already priced out of half the world by population, maybe more.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:15PM (4 children)
It sounds like they are naming governments as the organizations responsible for undermining human rights.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:19PM (3 children)
Sounds like you'd blame somebody else.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:56PM
I'd expect criminals, corporations, the rich, taxpayers, etc.
(Score: 3, Informative) by maxwell demon on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:11PM (1 child)
In a democracy, the voters are responsible for their government.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @01:28AM
That's the hypothesis sold by The Ruling Class.
...meanwhile, as noted in 1944 by Vice President Henry Wallace [googleusercontent.com] (orig) [thomhartmann.com]
IOW, queer the elections|campaigns.
...and media consolidation sucks.
If you're still getting your "information" via Lamestream Media (anything with ads|sponsors|underwriters), you're not getting the whole story--and may well be getting complete fiction.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0, Touché) by Walzmyn on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:22PM (11 children)
We have an article about human rights violations published in the state run propaganda arm of a culture that makes women wear bag over their head and refuses to let them drive?
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:15PM
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:32PM (8 children)
Qatar is not Saudi Arabia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Qatar [wikipedia.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by unauthorized on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:28PM (7 children)
What Wikipedia will not tell you is that many Qatari women face informal community-enforced laws that force them into this exact position. Sharia is widely adhered to in Qatar and the government makes no effort to stop it, if not silently condoning it.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday February 24 2018, @11:59PM (2 children)
Well, it's the Arab world. If we're to compare individual countries, what metric should be used? Annual female-driven miles per capita? Annual acid attacks per capita? Average cost of a hymen repair?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by unauthorized on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:19AM (1 child)
I have a novel idea. How about we use the "number of women facing legitimate oppression" metric?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:25AM
We have to get that number from someone. Maybe we should call the National Social Action Foundation [gulf-times.com]?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:22AM (1 child)
Meh. White Sharia is being implemented in the USA at the ground level too. No, I don't mean OMG Moooooooslims.
I don't mean OMG Mooooooslims. Ok?
I mean Christians. I mean White Sharia. I mean Christian Identity. I mean fundamentalist Christianity, and not the kind that jdavidb here has described following. I'm talking full-blown thar culture.
These are the 53% of white women who voted Trump in. These are the women feminism wants to pretend don't exist. These are women who are happy to be oppressed. These are women who believe that a woman who isn't continually pregnant from ages 20 until 35 is a failure.
The neoliberals want to blame homosexual men and other assigned males with technical expertise and corral them into this “alt-right” thing. Of course, the neoliberals are also preparing for World War 3. A boot stamping on a human face forever.
It's the way the world is headed these days.
The only defense those of us who believe in gender equality and other classical liberal values have against this wave of madness is property ownership. Women who don't want to be swept up in it need to consider separatism enabled by property ownership. If women don't want to be oppressed, now is the time for women to begin valuing gun ownership.
Because the pitchforks and torches, figuratively speaking, are coming. There may be riots in every major city this year. Marching at the head of the army coming to oppress women in the West will be other women. The only way to defend liberty is with violence. Violence is the ultimate authority from which all other authority derives, and women need to be prepared to defend their liberty from women who are prepared to use violence to subjugate them to a mere reproductive function.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @04:04AM
If that were true, there'd be vastly more white kids in the US. Don't you have something better to do than just make shit up?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @01:51AM (1 child)
You might want to check your own backyard.
There are groups descended from European stock who treat females in bizarre ways.
For generations, The Irish Travelers have highly sexualized little girls. [google.com]
There are still Mormon enclaves where polygamy (to include young girls) is practiced.
Reactionaries in USA. who claim they want "smaller gov't", want the gov't to poke its nose into your bedroom.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:27AM
Those are outliers in the west, and generally outside the law, while in Muslim countries Sharia is the norm and often the law as well.
So while you're comparing two baskets of apples -- the first has one or two rotten apples, but the other has mostly rotten apples.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Informative) by therainingmonkey on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:37PM
You're probably thinking of Saudi Arabia. Al Jazeera is based in Qatar.
While Qatar is hardly a paragon of Human Rights (particularly for migrant laborers), there is no law requiring women to cover their heads nor banning them from driving.
Al Jazeera runs stories from diverse journalists with a diversity of perspectives, and sometimes contains top quality investigative journalism (something in short supply these days).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:24PM (2 children)
I notice from the past 15 years that if my government has the choice to support the economy (read: making sure the 1% or big international corps are well catered) or protecting human right (in own country or abroad) they choose the first.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:09PM
People are a commodity. Most just are too naive, too stupid, or too busy to realize it.
Unless people threaten the means of wealth for the upper class they will gain nothing for themselves among the lower to middle class. That is how it has always been, that is how it will always be. Complacency cannot be tolerated.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:23AM
the economy (read: making sure the 1% or big international corps are well catered)
The 1 Percent isn't "the economy".
About 66 percent of the economy is ordinary folks buying ordinary stuff.
...and moving a stock certificate from 1 owner to another DOESN'T INCREASE PRODUCTION.
It's a completely lateral thing.
...and it surely doesn't hire any new workers.
If the 1 Percent is, as they claim, "job creators", THEY ARE DOING A LOUSY JOB OF THAT.
international corps
Exporting jobs (as USAian Capitalists have been doing for decades) doesn't help the USAian economy.
In fact, it has the opposite effect.
Things that "USAian" corps are doing with their tax breaks that DON'T improve the economy:
-Stock buy-backs
-Increasing dividends to people who already have so much spare cash that they can speculate via the stock market
-Increasing executive compensation while continuing to screw the people who actually do the producing
Now, what -does- improve the economy is expanding production by building factories, getting more|improved equipment, and hiring more workers (who are also consumers, BTW).
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @02:27PM
https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/POL1067002018ENGLISH.PDF [amnesty.org] (3 MB)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Saturday February 24 2018, @03:24PM (32 children)
I'm not going to waste time badmouthing AI - they're a pretty decent bunch, as progressives go. But, the whole progressive thing?
Mankind isn't "evolving", and there is no clearly delineated path "forward". History tends to be more cyclic, than linear. The world has come a long way "forward" in the past ~70 years. But, the progressives have no reason to believe that things will continue in the direction they favor.
The so-called "alt-right" and the so-called "hate speech" in Europe and the US? Reaction to the invasions of short brown people from down south. Let us NOT call them "migrations" - they are INVASIONS.
When a people - any people - are being invaded foreigners, they tend to resist that invasion. WTF do I have to share what I have with some guy, just because he walked (or rode a camel, or a burro) a thousand miles to take it? Fek him - he can ride that camel back to where he came from.
The West, and the rest of the world, have been more than generous to those people in the southern lands. We've shared our medical discoveries, we've shared out agricultural discoveries, we've shared access to information like the need for clean water, and how to build dams. Do those southerners use it? Well, some of it, yeah. Do they reproduced responsibly? Well, hell no! Eastern or western hemisphere, those southern people believe it is their right and responsibility to produce 20 or more offspring. The more, the better for future invasions!!
Abandon human rights? Maybe some humans need to stop being so damned pushy.
Hatred and fear . . . . stay home where people who are like you will be more likely to like you!! There's no need to come here to be hated.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by aiwarrior on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:46PM (13 children)
While some of your rhetoric may make sense, like the fact that mass migrations will always trigger frictions and a huge social upheaval, other parts sound like you are trying to drum up excuses for things to regress. Progressist/Regressivist does not need to be a dichotomy. Why not keep with what has worked so well so far. This argument breaks the dichotomy: No need to push for 8 nor 80.
Point one, history is cyclical indeed but last I checked we are not living like the Romans just with better tech. Things effectively changed, it's not a 0 sum game. I would say that history follows more of a spiral with certain adjustments. Technology itself allows for much less strife even on relatively poor parts of society and this creates certain baselines that by game theory would benefit not one going below.
Point 2, Why not make it a matter of national security that the correct orderly leaders "down south" behave. Damn it, so much is done to give weapons or bribes for economic favor or dick swinging. Why not make it a policy to "persuade" others leaders that they need to get their civilization level up. It may sound contradictory, but the good guys also need to go through power struggles. Support them, take nation building with brighter goals.
Point 3, North/South, brown/white reeks of covered racist shit. On the other hand I also find the current American forced equality bullshit (quotas for blacks or whatever?), an admission that America gave up on meritocracy of some kind. My idea is ironically more along the lines of what Martin Luther King said: "Do not judge by the color of skin but by the content of their character". With the current American equality movements, I cannot but be baffled at how contrary and self undermining current movements are to the actual leveling of mankind as one. It actually is so dumb that maybe there is an ultra plot-within-a-plot of haters (attempt at joke just to relax the tone)
Point 4. People do have the right to not like one another, but prejudices and hate should not be fostered nor nourished by any civilized society and again, by pure logic, any group is weaker divided. Of course through the glass of humanism and enlightenment (the founding principles of western thought) any individual or collective person stands for it's self determination, but the tide should be towards the healthy union or variety (see how union and variety can not be antipodes?)
Oh Runaway, if you were not so unbecoming about brown people, a description I am sure my appearance would fit into, I would buy you a beer just for the kicks of the arguments. I think you are just a tiny bit racist but not an idiot (again not always a dichotomy ;)
Cheers
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:57PM (1 child)
Rome kept its populace happy by giving them "bread and circuses".
One such circus was the Coliseum. At first it could be flooded so as to facilitate mock naval battles, then later without water where highly-trained gladiators duked it out with swords.
The losers of the naval battles as well as the gladiators were killed. That's what kept the people entertained.
I was completely unaware that crucifixion was painful until I was fifteen and played a roman soldier in my high school's production of Jesus Christ Superstar. While I always found it odd that they would drive nails through one's hands and feet, I never really thought much beyond that.
It turns out that the crucified die of asphyxiation, because they are too exhausted - or in too much pain - to hold themselves up by their nail-pierced hands.
That exhaustion takes a long time. The gospels speak of the onlookers great surprise that Jesus died so quickly.
Why did the Romans choose crosses over other implements of torture?
They were cheap and easy to build. That was helpful because at the farthest frontiers of the empire there wasn't a whole lot of technology, but wood from trees was always readily avialable.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2, Funny) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:44PM
True Story:
A very religious Christian I knew from a former job attended one of those radical churches. Every Halloween they would have one of those "fright night" or whatever they are called plays which show graphically that sinners (in their case explicitly depicting homosexuals as hellbound among drug users and other sinners) face the wrath of God.
My coworker's character in the play was one of those sinners. As his "punishment" he was forced to be hanged using one of those harness-thingies for realism yet safety. Well, when he was lifted up, his harness snapped (he was very portly) so for a few seconds before everybody caught on he was actually being hanged.
When he showed up to work the next Monday every one of his spoken words was a raspy whisper and he wore a tall collar to hide his neck.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @05:01PM
The era known as The Enlightenmint was hundreds of years ago. You'd think that three or four hundred years of enlightenment would lead to web analytics being illegal.
Consider the challenges faced by closeted gay Republican politicians.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:13PM (8 children)
I was content to treat people fairly. Now? Fuck it.
If your idea of "progress" hurts me and my kind, I'm going to fight it. I do this everywhere I can.
For example, my workplace shows a preference for hiring women and minorities. As soon as this became clear, I stopped referring them for employment.
I used to not think very much about race. Progressives changed that. I get dragged into bullshit "diversity" sessions (hate sessions against me) and my kids get it too. I'm still sore over scholarships and a science camp that were denied to me, and now I see my kids about to suffer in a similar way. Now, I'm real happy to screw over other races. I do it on purpose.
I'm not even that severe... my brother would be KKK and neo-nazi if only he weren't atheist and capitalist.
So... is that the outcome you wanted? You started this shit. Want more and worse? Keep it up.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by arcz on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:37PM (6 children)
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:08PM (5 children)
Double standard. You want to let people discriminate based on their own opinions, but trying to balance that by using legal discrimination is bad? I'm not sure how what would be a better method to fix the problem, and I can only hope that soon enough we can remove affirmative action as it is no longer needed.
Maybe if the systemic racism in the US wasn't supported by people like you who vote in shitheads then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Nixon literally created the drug war as a covert culture war against blacks, mexicans, and liberals. Tons of cities have very racist policies, with such simple things as freeway offramps not being built for certain communities.
The reason liberals mock conservatives and treat call out racism is because it is a massive problem. It seems to be getting a little better with the new generations not buying into the hate of their parents, but we still get knee-jerk reactionaries like yourself who refuse to see the bigger picture. Come up with some alternatives to fix the problem of black kids not getting decent jobs due to the color of their skin and then you'll get respect and cooperation. Drone on about bootstraps and personal responsibility and get ignored.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:36PM (1 child)
Liberals are not less racist than conservatives, judging by their actions. The real difference is that conservatives are a lot more honest about their prejudice. Non-whites are also not less racist than whites; the notion that only whites are racist is a great conceit that is misused for political purposes.
This is a great gift that Donald Trump has given the world: the shattering of a great many harmful illusions.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:26AM
I wonder what "actions" you're talking about, sounds like bullshit to me. Even if that was true then you could say that at least they're trying to do the right thing instead of celebrating their failure... Whether "non-whites" are racist or not is largely meaningless, they're not generally in a position to make decisions for others.
I'm sure you're just about as non-racist as your champion.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday February 25 2018, @12:19AM
It should be obvious that yes, that is worse because the second situation uses the instruments of the state to enforce your racism. It's Jim Crow law, not just a bunch of petty people with petty biases.
Which is a shame because that's a big part of what a healthy society needs. It is your and the grandparent's responsibility to stop screwing over your fellow people just because they happen to be the wrong race.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:01AM
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/flashback-morgan-freeman-ending-racism-stop-talking-about-it [cnsnews.com]
(Score: 1, Troll) by arcz on Thursday March 01 2018, @10:25PM
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:02PM
You're full of shit, just another bigot who never thought of themselves as such. Just because you don't go to klan rallies doesn't mean you don't have racist aspects. Viewing sensitivity training as hate against you really shows where your mind is at.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Immerman on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:20PM
>an admission that America gave up on meritocracy of some kind
It never has been. Capitalism and meritocracy are very nearly diametrically opposed - in capitalism, possession of substantial capital is the overpowering "merit", and capital passes almost exclusively down the lines of family dynasties. There is the occasional "rags to riches" story, but they are, by the necessity of limited resources, extremely rare. And very often littered with deeply unethical behavior if you read between the lines.
>any group is weaker divided
Of course. Why do you suppose division is fostered? Keep the white, brown, and black working men at each other's throats, and they don't have the strength or energy to unify against the executive class that's screwing them all over. Hell, the entire concept of "white" was manufactured to unify opposition to the other skin colors - prior to that in the U.S. you were Polish, French, German, etc., but as cultures blended together over time a new, more obvious cause for division was needed.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:50PM
Enough said.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:12PM (3 children)
I mean really now, after Europeans invaded North America and genocided the fuck outta the natives you want to play that card? We even took Texas away from the Mexicans and now cry like babies when some of them sneak back to try and make a living for their families.
Speaking of hate and fear.... jesus clue grabbing christ.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Saturday February 24 2018, @10:08PM (2 children)
The massive declines were not due so much to direct action by the Europeans. The best candidate for the steep drop in population is disease, because thanks to lidar and other new techniques we know for certain that native civilizations in the Americas were far more populous and advanced than what the Europeans encountered. The Europeans themselves didn't know much about disease so they can hardly be charged with genocide because Indians died of mumps or the like after they traded.
Another candidate for the collapse of those civilizations is ecological catastrophe like drought or exhausting the carrying capacity of an area. But we don't yet know for sure.
It's popular to cast the Europeans as all-powerful, technologically advanced purveyors of evil who slaughtered the peaceful, hapless Indians, but in reality it was more like showing up in Europe just after the Black Plague had swept through, and finding the survivors pushovers.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:57AM
The massive declines [in indigenous peoples] were not due so much to direct action by the Europeans
Yeah. Right.
Calling them savages, heathens, pagans, and saracens because they weren't Christian, thereby giving them subhuman status making them subject to whatever, [google.com] had nothing to do with it.
Driving them like cattle from the eastern woodlands to a place with a completely unfamiliar plains ecosystem had nothing to do with it.
Buffalo Bill and his ilk shooting bison by the thousands from trains in order to deplete the main source of food for the plains Indians and starve them out had nothing to do with it.
-- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:53AM
They did try their best
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#North_America [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by aristarchus on Saturday February 24 2018, @08:05PM (6 children)
They are not talking about you in particular, Runaway! You only speak for yourself. And you are correct, you do not seem to be progressing, at all.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:06AM (5 children)
Well, you haven't evolved much in 2000 years . . .
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:41AM (4 children)
They are not talking about me, either, Runaway! Progressivism is asserting something about the entire species! Of course there will be some throwbacks, like yourself, but it is all within the margins of error to the great statistical progress to less violence, greater reason, more technology, and fewer Republicans. And, as a personal aside, you have no idea how my ideas have progressed. Having the Heliocentric model verified? Well, OK, I already knew that would happen. But Chemistry? Microbiology? Electricity? Nuclear weapons: my ideas have progressed well beyond what I thought I knew, and now I recommend the same path to you, oh curmudgeonly Runaway. Open your mind. Not too late to get an education. Community College is particularly recommended, in spite of how much old fart students like you disrupt classes. At least you could serve as a negative example to younger students.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:51AM (3 children)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs9psi_G5k [youtube.com]
There is some evolution for you.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday February 25 2018, @09:12AM (2 children)
I have told you many times, Runaway, that I never click on youtube links. Especially without description and explanation of how it is relevant. I expect that you, as many students these days, are only capable of taking in information if it is presented visually, what some educators call "The Fox Effect". This leaves you, and them, severely vulnerable to psychological manipulation, by corporations and especially by the Russians, who are past masters of this, even before the Internets.
So, my dear unreconstructed troglydite, you can keep your youtube link, and whatever you hoped to prove thereby remains unseen, and most likely, obscene. And once again, you are wrong.
(Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @04:07PM (1 child)
Yeah, those Yoogoober links are death for a computer, you goober. I expect that in your dotage, you can't see or hear the youtube links. I'll try not to remember that you need text sites, so that your braille keyboard can read them to you.
(Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 26 2018, @03:56AM
Jesus, who pissed in *your* whole-grain Oaty-Os this morning?
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:02PM (4 children)
Of course it is: What, you thought genetic evolution stopped?
OK, please answer me honestly: Have any of the short brown people in question actually taken anything of yours? Has their so-called "invasion" robbed you of land, stuff, or money? And assuming we're talking mostly about illegal immigrants, you can't claim it's via your taxes, because the only government support these folks get is meals and a cot while they're locked up in ICE detention facilities.
So, if the answer to that question is "no", and I strongly suspect it is, then what's the problem?
Again, do you actually have to share something you own? Did some people barge into your apartment or something? Or are you instead complaining about having to share something that doesn't actually belong to you, but you've decided is "yours", like the sidewalk?
So did they, unless you've somehow never eaten corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, curry, chick peas, falafel, or lots of other agricultural or culinary discoveries that originate south of the equator.
More to the point, isn't sharing knowledge between humans good for humans as a whole? How do Europeans or USAians benefit from having millions of people dying of cholera or Ebola in Africa? The people in these areas are also often doing the actual work of making the pills, building and installing the water purification equipment, etc. So again, no skin off your back, what's the problem?
I'm guessing you're making the mistake of thinking of everything that European/American civilization has come up with as belonging to you. Well, it's not. If you didn't create it, inherit it, buy it from somebody, or didn't even go to the effort of stealing it, it's not yours.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:28PM
Geography isn't your strong suit, is it?
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @02:41AM (2 children)
You're kinda rambling there.
What have the Mexicans taken from me, and my family? Job opportunities, primarily. Tax money and medical expenses, secondarily. And, we haven't even mentioned the violent crimes committed by illegals. Funny thing about those illegals - they don't respect the law very much. They'll become gang members, if they aren't already members when they came here. They deal in drugs, and prostitution. They commit tax fraud - what, you thought that all those illegals had their own social security numbers? Tax fraud, identity theft, and related crimes are committed by the best of the illegals. Our already broken medicaid/medicare and other medical programs are strained even further, thanks to illegals who don't pay their way.
https://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11187.pdf [gao.gov]
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/07/nearly-2-billion-spent-jailing-illegal-immigrant-criminals-america-2014/ [nationalreview.com]
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/illegal-immigrants-account-107-billion-nation-s-health-care-costs-data-show [cnsnews.com]
https://www.newsmax.com/Finance/NealAsbury/Immigration-healthcare-illegal-emergency/2013/05/09/id/503579/ [newsmax.com]
For a moment, let's forget about what illegals cost us here, in the US. Do you have any idea what happens to an illegal alien in Mexico?
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/04/28/police-state-how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens/ [michellemalkin.com]
https://www.nationalreview.com/2010/04/how-mexico-treats-illegal-aliens-michelle-malkin/ [nationalreview.com]
How does Mexico treat it's own minorities? Mosty by genocide, of course.
http://genocidewatch.net/2013/03/21/country-profile-mexico/ [genocidewatch.net] Unfortunately, that article doesn't give more than passing mention of non-Mayan and non-Aztec indigenous people in Mexico - let me try to find something better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_Mexico [wikipedia.org] Some interesting maps of indigenous populations, but again, little mention of genocidal practices against those indigenous peoples.
Ahhhh, here we go - http://minorityrights.org/minorities/indigenous-peoples-4/ [minorityrights.org]
When you have digested that, get back to me. What? You thought that Mexicans were just good, loving, progressive people, who would share their own food, and the shirts off of their backs with an oppressed people? Absorb their treatment of minorities in their own home, then consider again their motivation for coming here.
La Raza isn't the Boy Scouts.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:22AM (1 child)
Has it occurred to you that the illegals wouldn't be "stealing jobs" if it weren't for all those big companies, Smithfield for example, "hiring" them?
Let's not be stupid here: NEITHER party TRULY wants to stop illegal immigration, because it's a source of near-slave labor and drives prices and overheads way the hell down. If you want to bitch about job-stealing illegals, bitch about the corrupt, greedy, borderline-treasonous sonsabicthes who keep fucking HIRING THEM.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 25 2018, @04:02AM
Exactly - and we're back to a statement that I've made before:
The purpose of NAFTA was to destroy Mexico's economy, freeing up all of that unskilled labor to move north. Before NAFTA, that unskilled labor was more or less tied to the land. Being freed, where were they to go? Yes, of course, as you point out, the global economy expected them to move north.
Which only points out that we are all tools of the globalists. The progressives, the capitalists, the Mexicans - all of us.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by shortscreen on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:41PM
Let's say that uncontrolled population growth and migration are at odds with sustainable and harmonius coexistance. I think this should be obvious but there is unfortunately a shortage of people from the progressive camp willing to acknowledge the issue. I guess they are assuming that any objection to immigration is based on prejudice against some group. But this is not necessarily true, and as proof I would refer them to the situation in Silicon Valley. There is plenty of bitching and moaning going on about people flocking to the area for tech jobs, but it's not about who those people are or where they came from, it's about the simple economic consequences and longtime residents being forced out by rising rents.
I don't agree that the west has been particularly "generous" to developing nations. In the old days we had colonialism. Now, we don't call it colonialism anymore, but we have multinational corporations hashing out one-sided deals with the corrupt local government to exploit the people's labor and natural resources. And then we have the spooks intervening in their politics to ensure those deals stay in place. And then we have the occasional bombing campaigns, drone strikes, and death squads.
IMO, a more constructive foreign policy would be a better way to help everyone than open borders would be. But I'm afraid it just wouldn't be as good for corporate profits.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @04:48PM (5 children)
In its Emergency Room, Oregon Health & Sciences University has some holding cells in which they lock psychiatric patients so as to keep a lid on their demands that their rights be respected.
The holding cells have no toilets.
Even death row inmates get toilets. Why not the mentally ill?
I first learned that one has a constitutional right to a toilet when I made some hilarity ensue in the Pasadena City Jail. They were going to put me into a toilet-less padded cell, but someone informed the deputy that I have a constitutional right to a toilet.
Those holding cells also don't have telephones. Perhaps the Emergency staff is concerned that their prisoners might ring up attorneys.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by arcz on Saturday February 24 2018, @06:40PM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Saturday February 24 2018, @08:32PM
But not just now, I was up all night getting the bad news that Free As In Freedom is synonymous with "Russian Roullette".
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday February 27 2018, @06:07AM
My project is quite close to beta. That's been putting a damper on my preferred activity of staring at my iPhone
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:12PM (1 child)
Right to a toilet is covered under 8th amendment:
http://jailhouselaw.org/your-right-to-be-free-from-cruel-and-unusual-punishment/ [jailhouselaw.org]
-t
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:33PM
One of the nearby counties charges inmates for razors and haircuts. I wonder if that would apply? AFAIK they have no contingency for the indigent to access these things.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by turgid on Saturday February 24 2018, @07:25PM (7 children)
You often hear many an ignorant bigot saying things like, "I don't need human rights because I haven't done anything wrong." They seem to think that human rights are some kind of conspiracy to stop criminals being punished.
I have just googled the European Convention on Human Rights [coe.int].
In summary, here are the Articles in Section I.
Article 1. Obligation to respect Human Rights.
Article 2. Right to life.
Article 3. Prohibition of torture.
Article 4. Prohibition of slavery and forced labour.
Article 5. Right to liberty and security.
Article 6. Right to a fair trial.
Article 7. No punishment without law.
Article 8. Right to respect for private and family life.
Article 9. Freedom of thought, conscience and religion.
Article 10. Freedom of expression.
Article 11. Freedom of assembly and association.
Article 12. Right to marry.
Article 13. Right to an effective remedy.
Article 14. Prohibition of discrimination.
Article 15. Derogation in time of emergency.
Article 16. Restrictions on political activity of aliens.
Article 17. Prohibition of abuses of rights.
Article 18. Limitations of use of restrictions on rights.
Now, what is it about these things that rational adult human beings in this day and age object to? I'm sure there are many Soylentils who would love to elucidate.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Saturday February 24 2018, @09:20PM (1 child)
As far as I can tell, it comes down to this: Some people enjoy the prospect of hurting and even killing other people. Even if only by proxy. Even if the people in question in no way deserve it. These kinds of sadists can't be satisfied with consensual S&M, they're looking to do these terrible things to people who they know are completely unwilling.
Now, this set of desires can translate into simple criminality, such as serial killers. However, it can also get mixed with a mindset where they think about people in terms of groupings, tribes, and teams that they were born into. How the groupings are defined is largely arbitrary: It could be "Englishmen", "Manchester United Supporters", "The Bloods", "white people" (who actually qualifies has shifted about a lot on that one), "Catholics", etc. This was satirized perfectly by Babylon 5 when they had 2 factions of an alien race chosen by pulling ribbons out of a hat, and those 2 factions were in short order engaged in lethal combat.
Add in the obedience effects demonstrated by Stanley Milgram, and you have a recipe for everything that went on in Auschwitz.
For example of this in action, when the news about what was going on in Gitmo became public, there were a lot of people going "Ra ra ra! Yeah! Get them! They killed us on 9/11, this is revenge!" It didn't actually matter to them that the vast majority of the people in Gitmo weren't involved in 9/11 in any way. It didn't matter that the torture didn't yield any useful information whatsoever. It didn't matter that most of them didn't know anyone who had died in 9/11 or had even been anywhere nearby. It was very simply "They" hurt "us", therefor "we" must hurt "them". And sure, they dressed it up with clinical language like "enhanced interrogation techniques", and talked about "weapons of mass destruction" but what they meant was "We want to hurt and kill people."
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:24AM
Everything you say is true, and it shakes me to the core. Because it seems this is part of human nature, and perhaps one in fifty people is enlightened enough to pull their head out and see past it.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by VLM on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:07PM (1 child)
I'll bite. Whats being pushed has little to no relationship with carefully selected paperwork.
Its the same situation with global warming thing, or gun control.
So, sure, in one sense I'll oppose some carefully selected theoretical unimplemented documents no one could disagree with, that happen to have no correlation of any sort with Jackboots-on-the-Ground because I don't like the actions and plans of the completely disconnected from those documents Jackboots-on-the-Ground.
Another classic example is why wouldn't everyone love the fables in Marx's fair tale utopian novel? After all, the jackboots on the ground in the USSR only killed 50 million people implementing something in its name.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday February 25 2018, @03:39PM
2 + 2 = 5? I see,
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 25 2018, @08:09PM (2 children)
Article 6 gets you your fair trial. OK, fair enough. Then what? Here is what: you lose it all.
I'd kind of enjoy torturing bad people to death. It's messy and probably low pay, so I wouldn't pick it for a career, but maybe a few times a year I'd do it for free. (thus the low pay -- supply and demand determines that) Lots and lots of us would occasionally work for free. Think how many people would be happy to just shoot the bastards, without any of that nonsense with blank ammo. Start slowly, with lots of non-fatal shots, maybe even having a contest to see how many separate shots can be taken before a death.
Just yesterday, as I was having anchovy pizza, I couldn't help but imagine how it would be interesting to inject somebody with anchovy paste. It could be an IV. I'd love to try that. Die fucker, die!!! Then my mind went to other things I could inject. Disease-ridden poo would be good. Bleach would be good.
(Score: 2) by turgid on Sunday February 25 2018, @09:03PM
I see you read the Daily Express.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 26 2018, @03:46AM
Has it occurred to you yet that when you stoop to the level of a monster you become a monster as well? I could definitely kill people, but not torture them; one single clean shot to the back of the head level with the brain stem.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...