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YouTube expands firearms restrictions, more gun videos to be banned
"Some gun-related channels are already feeling the heat."
YouTube is placing more restrictions on weapons-related videos, focusing on guns with new, forthcoming policy changes. According to a Bloomberg report, YouTube intends to ban videos that "promote or link to websites selling firearms and accessories," including bump stocks, beginning this April. The new policy will also prohibit instructional videos that detail how to build firearms.
These restrictions come over a month after the school shooting in Parkland, Florida and just a few days before the March for Our Lives rally organized by the student survivors of the Parkland shooting. YouTube took similar action after the Las Vegas shooting last year by banning gun-modification tutorials.
"We routinely make updates and adjustments to our enforcement guidelines across all of our policies," a YouTube representative said in a statement to Bloomberg. "While we've long prohibited the sale of firearms, we recently notified creators of updates we will be making around content promoting the sale or manufacture of firearms and their accessories."
[...] While some may see YouTube's new firearms policy as ambiguously worded, it's the forthcoming implementation that will get the most reaction from firearms channels. Plenty of YouTubers have seen their content demonetized or removed due to the way YouTube's algorithm and moderators filter out potentially offensive content and content that goes against Community Guidelines. It's possible that gun-related videos that do not explicitly violate the new rules will get caught up in the first rounds of YouTube's upcoming purge.
[...] With the upcoming policy, YouTube will join the bevy of other companies, including Dick's Sporting Goods and Walmart, that have instituted new restrictions on the promotion or sales of firearms in the wake of the Parkland shooting.
Gun videos migrate to porn sites as YouTube cracks down
THERE is a bunch of unusual videos turning up on porn streaming sites as America's gun advocates cry foul.
YOUTUBE is going to start banning videos related to the sale or manufacture of guns next month, so as a way to make up for it, firearm aficionados are jumping ship to Pornhub — where they can post pretty much any clip they'd like.
Gun videos migrate to porn sites as YouTube cracks down
(Score: 2) by Virindi on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:12PM (44 children)
Blanket censorship of the topic driven by some clueless AI or mechanical turk, with no possibility to appeal to a real human or make your case! I'm sure we can all agree that is the best way to deal with any perceived problem.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Virindi on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:18PM (2 children)
Let me add this:
If the government did things like this, we would all cry foul over free speech. And yet, communication has become such monoculture that a cartel of companies can have a similar effect. What puzzles me is that for some reason people still seem to think of tech companies as mavericks, when in reality they are the establishment.
If/when people realize that Google/Facebook/etc are "the man", the results will be interesting.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @11:57PM
If they keep up this shit. They will end up like the phone companies with a Title III like Title I of the phone company. Basically do not spy on your customers and regulated. They tried to apply Title I to the ISPs. They will get their own if they keep it up.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @02:46AM
I'm pretty sure the government loved the idea of what Google and Facebook were doing once they realised what it meant, and leaned in with cash and regulatory sweetheart deals to make sure that they succeeded.
Which forces in the government? Hard to say. Could as easily have been NSA, FBI, CIA and CDC.
But if they didn't, they should have been fired, because it's so obvious. It's not the government creating lists - the government just happens to use lists helpfully created by private, independent enterprise! What with their AT&T secret rooms, it's not as if they didn't have history doing this.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:23PM (40 children)
I don't like guns but even I've watched DIY gun videos, rail gun videos, laser gun videos, pyrotechnics videos. If censoring knowledge of engineering and physics is an absolute cure for people with mental health issues, why isn't censoring Islamic videos an absolute cure for Jihad?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:32PM (32 children)
It's not just gun creation/modification videos. They've even taken down gun safety videos. Basically anything relating to guns at all is now verboten.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Informative) by tonyPick on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:49PM (6 children)
Also worryingly some of the smaller, but genuinely informative science channels (styropyro [youtube.com]and Cody's Lab [youtube.com] to name two) have been getting hit by content warnings recently.
Between this & the Adpocalypse the whole thing seems fairly arbitrary, with the larger channels (e.g. Logan Paul [wikipedia.org]) being able to skate off with just a warning while the niche channels seem to be hanging by a thread and nobody knows *what* the line is, much less where it is.
Why Vimeo/Twitch/etc aren't all over this hoovering up the quality creators while YT tries to become a low brand public access TV emulator is something of a mystery to me.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Virindi on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:02PM (2 children)
Political ideology?
(Score: 4, Informative) by tonyPick on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:18PM (1 child)
A quick search shows Vimeo doesn't have a problem with firearms channels, even commercial ones...
e.g.
https://vimeo.com/classicfirearms [vimeo.com]
https://vimeo.com/beretta [vimeo.com]
Can't see as they'd have a problem with the science based channels either...
(Score: 5, Informative) by number11 on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:00PM
Vimeo does have restrictions, though. Especially if you're using a free account (5GB total uploads and can't embed on your website, for two). If you're a business, it costs $20/month or more. I don't think you get any ad revenue, which I'd guess might be significant in the case of some of the firearms stuff. And Vimeo just doesn't have anywhere near the eyeball count like YouTube does. It's a bit like the Facebook situation, people go to YouTube because that's where everybody is.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by tekk on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:59PM
You're underestimating Twitch there a bit. A lot of people have moved over to Twitch over the years because it's just a better platform, and they've been rolling out more features to act as a youtube replacement, all of your streams automatically get archived now and there are "replay streams" where you upload a video and they play it at a certain time.
(Score: 0, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:52PM (1 child)
Alphabet/Google owns Twitch.tv.
(Score: 3, Informative) by number11 on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:06PM
Amazon owns Twitch.tv. An entirely different evil empire, though it does start with the same letter.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:03PM (18 children)
TMB -- what internet are you using? I just googled for gun safety -- switched to video search and got 21M hits, here's one from Glock -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTuYS857lOE [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:20PM (17 children)
That only shows incompetence not lack of malice.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by aristarchus on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:22PM (16 children)
What? Gun safety and Glock? More like a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron, if you will.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @06:29AM (15 children)
"Glocks don't have safeties" is a clear sign of ignorance. While I am no expert on Glocks, there are multiple mechanisms (e.g. firing pin block, trigger block, etc.) that prevent a loaded Glock pistol from firing even in extreme circumstances - unless the trigger is pulled.
Some people are of the opinion that if you pull the trigger on a loaded gun... the gun should fire.
(Score: 1, Troll) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @06:46AM (11 children)
No firing pin block, or in other words, no safety. SA revolvers (that is "Single Action, for you Hoplophobes and alt-right types) were required to introduce a hammer interlock, so that the weapon could not fire if dropped. For some reason the Glock, with only a little thingy on the trigger, that would indicate, "yes, I do intend to shoot my own self in the leg" passed muster, due to massive lobbying by the manufacturer. If it was up to me, I would declare all Glocks unsafe, along with the Remington 300, and the AR-15, just because these are unsafe weapons, and the manufacturers have avoided liability for the same. The vast majority of LEO firearm accidents have been due to Glocks. It is an unsafe weapon! And, seriously, if you do not know guns, you should not be posting on a topic like this. Just saying.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @08:01AM (10 children)
Philosopher, educate thyself. [glock.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @08:40AM (9 children)
Back in my day, when we dealt with σκορπιδία, we were very careful about accidental discharge. But Glock puts their firing pin lock on the frigging trigger? What kind of madness is this? We "lock and load", only now with no ability to "lock". Glocks are unsafe at any speed, and anyone familiar with weapons at all would realize this. Stay away from company propaganda.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-owens-glock-accidents-20150508-story.html [latimes.com]
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/glock-trigger/ [gunsamerica.com]
Who do you think you are talking to , Tenderfoot?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @09:09AM (8 children)
Someone who does not realize that a trigger is not an ottoman for your booger-hook.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @09:17AM (7 children)
If you cannot tell the difference between a semi-autoloading pistol, a foot-rest, and an early 20th Century Empire, I would suggest that you are not qualified to participate in this discussion. But you have already proven that. I suspect you masturbate into a sock, instead of cocking a Forty Millimeter? Or do you play games, sponsored by Microsoft? Think about that, "micro" and "soft", with the combination "game". Does not bode well for your future as a real man. If you are a man. But unless you are Tomi Lauren, how could you not be?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @09:24AM (4 children)
Far be it from me to object to the qualified judgement of someone who cannot get his basic facts straight [soylentnews.org] in regards to which safety systems a certain type of pistol has or does not have.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @09:45AM (3 children)
That little lever on the trigger may be connected to an alleged "firing pin block", but it is more a "trigger verification level" than a safety. Glocks need to be sued, recalled, and dumped into the trashbin of history as a very, very bad idea. The point of a safety is that it has to be more difficult to disengage than pulling the god-damned trigger. This is why Glocks have no real safety, and thus no real safe carry mode, unless, as you and any sane person would, keep the chamber empty. I mentioned SA revolvers, like the original Colt Dragoon. People figured out very quickly you left one chamber empty, and put the hammer down on that empty chamber. Now the Remington 1875 came up with the innovation of having a notch between caps, to rest the hammer on. Better, perhaps, but an empty was safer.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/131714-glock-accidental-discharge.html [defensivecarry.com]
And this is why semi-autos are just wrong. You can have a decent safety, like the 1911 or the Beretta, actual guns that actual soldiers have carried. But they are just too prone to going off at the wrong time. I suggest only single shots, or at the most double barreled guns. Cuts way down on the, wait, Glock has a special term for this? Not "accidental discharge", but "negligent discharge"? as if it was not their stupid design that was at fault? Oh, dear! This is why we cannot have a decent weapons discussion on SN, too many ammosexuals and company shills.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @09:53AM (1 child)
But now what are you going to try to do with your other sabot [wikipedia.org]?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @10:41AM
Why, sabotage, of course. This is why the Cosmos gave us two feet. But you must be also aware that a "sabot" is casing that holds a projectile until it clears the barrel of a firearm, often used with smoothbores like shotguns for slugs for hunting deer or other medium game. But they are also used by riflemen to avoid having groove "fingerprints" being inscribed onto their projectile, and thus evade forensics. So, like silencers, sabots are almost universally the tools of poachers and assassins and ammosexuals; criminals to not put too fine a point on it. Which one are you? (Yes, trick question, there is only one.)
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @03:42PM
There's a bunch of different safeties for a bunch of reasons -- historically, the most important reasons seem to be concerns about pocket carrying pistols or snagging long guns on brush (both related to not having holsters protecting the trigger) and that most firearms have not been drop-safe when ready to fire, thus a manual safety selects between "drop-safe, but doesn't work" and "dangerous, but ready to fire".
Both double- and single-action revolvers have generally been considered to not need manual safeties, even with all chambers loaded, ever since the adoption of drop-safety arrangements (rebounding hammer or transfer bar), with the assumption that they will be carried with the hammer decocked. Glocks and similar striker-fired pistols are not very different from double-action revolvers; while the striker is partially pre-cocked with the gun at rest, it's essentially decocked in that it doesn't have enough stored energy to actually detonate a primer if released from this position. And while the drop-safety details are mechanically quite different from a double-action revolver, they're no less effective.
The lever on the trigger doesn't even connect to the firing pin block -- it only contacts the trigger proper, and the frame. Seriously, look at a diagram or animation of the mechanism you're criticizing.
The safety lever in the trigger serves one real purpose -- it blocks the trigger from moving rearward during a muzzle-up drop, or any other sharp impact to the back of the slide. It's of course engaged by light spring pressure, but also designed with most of the mass above the pivot, so that the inertia of the lever during a muzzle-up drop tends to more firmly engage it, rather than to disengage it.
The firing pin block is a plunger in the slide. It's actuated by the trigger bar moving backwards -- until the trigger itself is depressed, the firing pin block is not disengaged, and the firing pin cannot contact the primer. This provides safety against most possible drops, either muzzle-down where the forward inertia of the firing pin might break the sear, or lateral impacts that might dislodge the sear engagement.
The remaining vulnerability that the firing-pin block alone can't handle is the muzzle-up drop, where the inertia of the trigger, trigger bar, and striker carries them all to the rear against the striker spring. Naturally, as the trigger bar travels rearward, the sear releases the striker just as during a normal trigger pull. And naturally, since the trigger bar has moved to the rear, it has already disengaged the firing pin block -- a Glock with no safety lever in the trigger would thus fire (just like a pre-upgrade Sig P320) if dropped muzzle-up on a hard floor. The safety lever stops this whole process at the beginning -- if the trigger can't move, the trigger bar won't move, the sear will remain engaged, and the firing pin block won't be actuated. The striker can still travel rearward, but when it returns the sear will be in position to catch it, and if it does override the sear, the firing pin block will definitely stop it short of the primer.
Glock apparently realizes this is too hard to explain (or perhaps their marketing department simply can't understand it?), so their marketing materials don't even try; they pretend it's about keeping the trigger from being accidentally depressed by non-finger objects. Well, that's kind of silly -- clearly, while it may help with some objects coming in at a weird angle, some objects will make contact with the safety lever, allowing them to pull the trigger and fire it anyway; half a safety is worse than no safety at all, and treating it as a "non-finger-object" safety serves only to give an unwarranted confidence, and encourage reckless handling. But as you said -- stay away from company propaganda. Once you understand the actual function of the Glock fire control group, you understand that it's there only to provide drop safety, and it serves that purpose quite well.
The solution to non-finger objects pressing the trigger is to keep those objects out of the trigger guard -- with a well-fitting holster when carrying the gun, and by paying attention on the rare occasions where you actually have it out to use.
Not Glock's term. That's a relatively recent phenomenon where pedants are concerned that the old term "accidental discharge" implies a complete lack of fault. In this new pedantic classification, if a mechanical failure caused the gun to fire when the trigger isn't pressed or the safety is engaged, it's accidental, but if you let the safety get disengaged and the trigger get pressed when you don't want it to fire, it's negligent. And they apply this new(ish) term equally to all guns, whether they do or don't have manually safeties.
Honestly, it's not a bad distinction to make, but the fundamental point is misguided; those who refuse to take responsibility for their gun going off in their hand will refuse to do so no matter what terminology you adopt.
(Score: 2) by number11 on Wednesday March 28 2018, @02:14AM (1 child)
If those are the two choices, it will almost certainly be the sock. Because a 40mm is going to require a crew of perhaps 5 to operate and a truck to tow it with. That's a bore of about 1 1/2 inches, designed to shoot at airplanes. He's not going to be concealed carrying that. Perhaps you were thinking of 40 caliber, which is a he-man pistol size.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday March 28 2018, @03:35AM
Go big, or go home, I always say! Maybe it was all those people referring to a 5.56mm NATO round as a "high-caliber" weapon that caused me to over compensate. I meant, a 20mm, anti-aircraft gun! Obviously.
Oh, for the days when firearms were measured by balls to the pound! Both smooth and rifled bores were "gauges". I prefer about a 28 gauge. With a proper hammer-tumbler deep-notch safety!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @08:51AM (2 children)
Some other people, the sane ones who are not ammosexuals, are of the opinion that is you pull the trigger WITH THE SAFETY ON the gun should not fire. See the difference? Which one of these is likely to result in more accidents as ferping semi-auto pistolas (weapons of cowards and feds) are holstered with mild and unexpected interference? Glock is liable for hundreds of accidental deaths and maimings, if firearm manufacturers where held to normal product liability standards, and not those of Micro$oft.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @09:05AM (1 child)
To paraphrase the great American philosopher George Carlin [youtube.com], some other people are idiots.
Here is some free educational material for you, courtesy of Jeff Cooper:
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Monday March 26 2018, @09:19AM
Great philosopher, George! He is missed.
(Score: 2) by Weasley on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:26PM (1 child)
Eh? hickok45 is one of the biggest gun channels on youtube and it's still there. [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:02PM
The policy was just announced, the deletions have yet to be done. Doesn't mean they won't be.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @08:44PM (3 children)
HIGH FUCKING LARRY US
Finally we see the topic that gets the libertarians/conservatives to cry foul over corporate censorship.
I dislike such rules and censorship, however you could at least try and be accurate.
"Intends to sell firearms or certain firearms accessories through direct sales.... Provides instructions on manufacturing a firearm, ammunition, high capacity magazine, homemade silencers/suppressors .... Shows users how to install the above-mentioned accessories or modifications."
They are quite specific about the video content, at least in their given policy, and it seems to match federal laws on prohibited firearm accessories and restrictions on sales. So seems like a PR move to prevent a future lawsuit about content on their system, not some dystopian future where guns are now a thought crime. Nice wind up though, don't pop a blood vessel.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Foobar Bazbot on Sunday March 25 2018, @11:54PM (2 children)
Does it now?
Making firearms for your own use is legal, and for ordinary rifles, shotguns, pistols, etc. requires no licensing, permits, or paperwork of any kind. (Making them to sell or distribute is a whole regulated thing, and certain configurations known as NFA firearms -- such as short-barreled shotguns -- require a process like silencers, see below.)
Making ammunition is legal, and quite popular as a cost-saving measure among high-volume shooters (e.g. competition shooters).
There are currently no federal regulations on "high-capacity magazines" -- the 1994 ban expired in 2004.
Homemade silencers are legal if you jump through the right hoops. You have to file paperwork, pay a $200 tax, and after a background check and 6-12 months of waiting, you finally get your tax stamp in the mail, and can make your silencer.
Yeah, exactly nothing to do with federal laws.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @08:29AM (1 child)
Notwithstanding that ALL laws regarding manufacture and possession of arms by free people are illegal and void, all those steps you mention in regards to suppressors, home-made or not, all involve direct interaction with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives, a component of the USian federal government.
(Score: 2) by Foobar Bazbot on Monday March 26 2018, @03:43PM
From the post I was replying to:
Yes, I should have said "exactly nothing to do with federal laws on prohibited firearms"
Your pedantry is acknowledged, but I think context made it pretty clear.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @01:38PM
Not to worry, Google Video search still reports 400K+ rail gun videos -- just watched one showing a Navy test shot.
For laser guns there are 8M hits and 300K for pyrotechnics (first page is mostly for theater effects).
(Score: 2) by IndigoFreak on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:37PM
They do take down Islamic videos that they feel will radicalize people.
(Score: 1, Redundant) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:39PM (4 children)
I'm as mad as a cut snake yet I've never shot anyone.
I don't even own a gun.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:55PM (2 children)
Do you want one? What State do you live in?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:23PM
Won't work. He's not in Texas or even Florida.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Monday March 26 2018, @04:11AM
I earned it at school, in the seventh grade
And yes we were firing guns at school
I'm in Washington state now. It has open carry
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @08:49PM
I like to go fast yet I've never broken the sound barrier.
I don't even own a fighter jet!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:04PM (2 children)
Youtube and Google are private companies, and are allowed to do whatever they like.
It's all good if they could also do something about fakenews.
:)
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:20PM (1 child)
Fake news brings in clicks. They want clicks so they will do what ever it takes to keep clicks coming in. Clicks translate to revenue. Youtube sucks clicks.
They are worried that gun videos currently may reduce their popularity, or even get them banned in some organizations. Meaning fewer clicks.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @06:41AM
No its the gubmint deepstate omg omg omg *buys ammo*
(Score: 1, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:11PM (17 children)
Some of this anti-gun stuff seems to be going a bit nuts lately. All of these reports of kids walking out of schools in "protest" smell of someone else putting ideas in their heads. It is a bit disturbing that there seems to be little talk about keeping rights, but given recent events it is hard to make that argument.
Of course you know what is going to happen long term. Guns will become illegal, except for the militarized police who will continue to gun down whoever they feel like.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Sulla on Sunday March 25 2018, @02:42PM (8 children)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/ [statista.com] - 2016
I for one hope these kids are successful in getting everything deadly from rifles on up banned, this way murder ends.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:08PM (1 child)
Don't forget "words are violence", when they've taken your hands they'll have to take your tongue too.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:26PM
Don't be so alarmist! Of course they will not take your hands! Just your arms. And you can keep your tongue, and even hold it. Yes, hold your tongue, you SJW!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:16PM (3 children)
There is a better, simple, and effective way to get all of those murder rates down to zero.
Have your humans spayed or neutered. Then in a little more than 100 years the rates will magically be zero. YAY!
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:11PM
Not sure I am looking forward to responsible people keeping responsible people from being born and irresponsible people causing more irresponsible people.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @10:35PM
You first, buddy.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @10:46PM
Better still, pollute their food with chemicals which make them sterile...
Same end result, less unpopular use of gelding shears or the good old two bricks...
Remember TPTB love doing shit like this by stealth, so, on that subject, whilst all this anti-gun theatre is going on as the distraction, the question you have to ask is, What are 'They' getting up to that they don't want anyone to focus on?.
But, but, but.... [youtube.com]
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday March 26 2018, @02:37PM (1 child)
Yep. That's why the United States leads the world in intentional homicides [wikipedia.org] per 100,000 inhabitants, all right.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 27 2018, @03:41AM
What's that saying about those who forget history?
War On Drugs is just a second, illegal, Prohibition.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:00PM
It's more nuts because of extra publicity compared to other massacres. The Florida school was 40% Jewish. Much of the media, including YouTube is led by Jews. Coincidence?
(Score: 0, Troll) by jmorris on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:04PM (1 child)
But of course. Kids that showed up to class instead of "volunteering" for the protests faced suspension in many schools. And showing up to the protests in NRA gear or with other pro 2nd amendment posters? Suspension. Like all Progs, the teachers wanted the kids to speak out so long as they agreed with them.
Never forget that the Venn diagram of "People who want to abolish the 1st Amendment" and "People who want to abolish the 2nd Amendment" is basically one single circle with a few bumps of oddballs here and there. And if if we give up either one we will certainly lose both.
(Score: 3, Touché) by number11 on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:21PM
Cite?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:16PM (1 child)
“All of these reports of kids walking out of schools in "protest" smell of someone else putting ideas in their heads.”
Probably just different peeps than those who put ideas in yours. Or do you really think the kids have no way to discern incoming information while you are a master of it?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @12:05AM
This who put my ideas in my head.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472027/?ref_=nv_sr_1 [imdb.com]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758790/?ref_=nv_sr_1 [imdb.com]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112573/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_32 [imdb.com]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187393/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_19 [imdb.com]
The first 10 are basically a laundry list of 'fuck you england'. For every 'right' the crown did that thing and more so than you think. They would throw you in jail at the drop of a hat for just speaking up or owning a gun. The lawyers who made this list knew exactly what would happen again. They put them in place as a pretty amazing house of cards glued together to make sure they all self reinforce each other. Notice it was basically a group of lawyers who made it? They knew exactly how we were getting screwed. It was their business to either do the screwing or defend against it. The bill of rights was their gift to us to stop our gov from doing it again.
As a group of programmers you should look at it in awe. The subtlety of how it works is pretty amazing. It is a system that works if used correctly. You should see any affront upon it, as if someone wants to remove a portion of the GPL (which also only works because of our constitution).
(Score: 4, Insightful) by number11 on Sunday March 25 2018, @07:18PM (2 children)
So far, I haven't seen gun owners doing anything about the militarized police, why would we believe it would ever happen? Not even in the states that have a "stand your ground" defense. When the "Patriot" act was passed, I didn't hear a peep out of gun owners.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @02:54AM
Then you sure as hell weren't listening.
Or maybe you expect them all to have been on CNN, saying: "AS A GUN OWNER I think that the Patriot act is a crock of shit."
TL;DR: you only didn't hear it because you weren't listening in the right places. Many of them were furious.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday March 26 2018, @07:51PM
What I find shocking is that gun control advocates want to give police even more power in these pieces of legislation -- there's always an exception for cops. Given the long history of violence and abuse by police at the behest of the 0.1%, I'm pretty shocked at the number of people who just don't care.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:06PM
Why is this still allowed in a civilized country? If we ban murder and criminalize it, surely all murders will reduce, not only gun related murders.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by idiot_king on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:09PM (28 children)
Look, nobody likes the fact that the US gov't is the bitch of the NRA. Companies are making a stand against gun violence, of which the US is extremely overrepresented when compared to Europe, Australia, and East Asia (essentially all of whom have outright banned firearms). This is an actual, counterculture revolution happening before our very eyes, and the capitalist system seems to be starting to get it. The March yesterday all over the US was proof that the PEOPLE are tired of guns, and gun violence. I wholeheartedly support the motion of the capitalist system to start realizing that it's NOT the one in control. Hopefully the next administration can make real headway in a verifiably correct interpretation of the poorly-constructed Second Amendment. Chomsky pointed out the ever-incorrect understanding of it, and he's a damn linguist. This is just the first step, and it makes me proud that at least the people are starting to push back against the tyranny of the NRA letting whoever has money have access to killing machines.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:15PM (18 children)
Gun-control has been a great success in Chicago [heyjackass.com] that it's hard to see how anybody could challenge your sense of moral superiority.
(Score: 5, Informative) by idiot_king on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:22PM (17 children)
That's because of inequality. Violence directly correlates with inequality, and this is VERY well known. Chicago has banned guns but it borders both Wisconsin and Indiana which have more lax gun laws meaning that a black market for them is created in Chicago.
Get rid of guns nationwide and you will see a difference, which is why I mentioned the countries I mentioned. Don't even bring up Mexico, Brazil, etc because those countries have EXTREME inequality which directly leads to violence as stated just previously.
Removal of guns and removal of inequality would make a near-crimeless society, which is the EXACT byproduct of the whole Marxist project. The remainder of the crime would be conscious bad-actors either trying to undermine the communist system (i.e., capitalist subversive actions like we have constantly seen in Central/South America and the Mideast) or legitimate psychopaths hiding in the fat-tails of the societal distribution of human traits.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:16PM (6 children)
Correct. The successful anti-socials in the poorer community are then the driver of further anti-social behaviour and this is how you get no-go zones.
Incorrect. You cannot eliminate inequalities without tyranny, they are inherent properties of existence. It's also not NRA members committing mass shootings but they would be your best line of defence against a tyrannical Marxist government doing what Marxist governments do. [theepochtimes.com]
Physician heal thyself - your proposed cure is worse than the disease.
(Score: 4, Informative) by fritsd on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:39PM (5 children)
WTF?! Are you claiming that countries like the European countries with low GINI scores [wikipedia.org], are tyrannical? I don't think so. There are great differences between countries w.r.t. inequality.
So why do many countries manage a GINI of around 25%, as opposed to the USA's 47% and yet I haven't read about public executions of The Rich in Slovenia, Belgium, Finland, Iceland??
Unless you used the word "eliminate" as an absolute. But that's just sophistry: sure you can't *eliminate* inequalities, but you can ameliorate them by adapting your tax law. Progressive taxation helps to greatly reduce the inequalities over the span of a few generations.
Let the strongest shoulders bear the heaviest loads. And that doesn't result in tyranny.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:12PM (4 children)
No, I'm claiming that eliminating inequalities in pursuit of a utopian ideal is tyrannical; a claim I did not limit to wealth inequality.
I agree with the premise entirely but you have to accept the economic reality that some invest while others squander.
It did for the plantation slaves! Historically people begin objecting to paying income taxes at rates around 45%, slowing growth and the prospect of inflation will always bring this to the fore.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:24PM (3 children)
We need a phrase like Godwin for when a conservative tries to play the oppression card.
Higher taxes == slavery? Lawl
(Score: -1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:58PM (2 children)
I am not a conservative. I humbly suggest you try justifying your theory using the influential, although discredited Marxist value of labor. All you need to do is replace "boss" and "profit" with "state" and "tax".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @08:55PM (1 child)
Sounds like you're sitting on a tall horse. I would not equate a capitalist organization with slavery either unless an employee was not free to quit.
I arrogantly call you ridiculous.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @09:43PM
My horse is being self-employed, owning the means of production and living the "Marxist dream" :P Someone else brought Marx into the discussion - there should probably be an equivalent of Godwins law for whenever anybody does that. The fallacy of argumentum-ad-marxism. Since you recognise that voluntary employment is not exploitative you would, presumably, also recognise that a majority of your income being taken via taxation under the threat of government force is exploitative? If you already recognise that Marxism is ridiculous then the point I was making will seem equally ridiculous.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by mhajicek on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:36PM (3 children)
Get rid of guns and you'll see an epidemic of rape and machete massacres. Working on reducing inequality would help, provided it can be done without communism.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @06:12PM (2 children)
Yessiree! The only thing keeping me back from going on a machete rape massacree is the fear that some communists might have guns.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @08:56AM
Not to mention, raping machetes really, really hurts, and the machete does not respect you in the morning. All in all, kind of a Red Pillar encounter. No spawn, no tax break.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @07:29PM
Not only was this comment not funny, but you didn't even get what the parent was saying. Never did they say that communists had any guns. Further, there are two massive borders to the US. GP claiming that the only reason Chicago has guns is because of the bordering areas is valid but they completely forget that guns will still leak in like a flood from Mexico and Canada. After all, banning drugs did nothing to actually get rid of any drugs, no more than prohibition got rid of alcohol. People that wanted to, did it anyway.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:40PM (4 children)
If you work, you have guns in the hands of private individuals to thank for the 8 hr day, lack of child labor laws, end of unpaid work, worker safety rules -- virtually everything you take for granted today, was being violently suppressed by police, state militias, and national guard troops just 100 years ago.
In the Ludlow Massacre, National Guard troops whose salaries were being paid by a Rockefeller, machine gunned a tent camp of strikers, went through dousing the tents with kerosene, lit it on fire -- the workers fought back as best they could to defend themselves against the atrocities with firearms. The national guard's actions caused 13 kids to burn to death in a medical tent -- the battle went on for about 10 days. One outcome of this war with the state of Colorado and the oligarchs who owned it, was the passage of laws at the Federal level eliminating child labor and setting an 8 hr day as standard. But do you really think the Federal Congress was acting out of the goodness of its heart (these were long standing grievences ignored for many decades)? No, Congress acted out of the real fear of a general insurrection.
The Ludlow Massacre was not the only battle fought and not the only atrocity committed by state and private police/military organizations. Without the ability of workers to use firearms to fight battles against oligarchs and the government they owned, you too would be a slave today, and we all owe a debt of thanks to the blood they shed to give us the rights we have.
As we enter a new gilded age, do you really think the Rockefellers of our time are not aware of how an armed populace might limit the 0.1%'s ability to take everything? In this context, it is completely logical for moneyed interests to convince the population to self-neuter itself and ensure that only the police and national guard have access to weapons -- these groups have forever been the tools of oligarchy and oppression so it is like the 0.1% is giving itself machine guns and tanks while making sure you have nothing but bows and sling shots.
(Score: 3, Touché) by maxwell demon on Sunday March 25 2018, @08:04PM (3 children)
And yet in other countries people got all that without guns in their hands.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by hemocyanin on Sunday March 25 2018, @08:29PM (2 children)
You think the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution didn't put the fear of the people into other governments? I know it is currently popular to think of Europe as some utopian paradise throughout all ages, but the same story plays out time and again -- concentrated wealth and power leads to repression and horrific conditions for regular people up to the point those people begin to revolt. If those in power are too late in realizing they've overplayed their hand, they lose their heads, so smart Power makes concessions before the risk rises too high. One way to push back the point at which Power must make concessions, is to ensure the populace has only a limited ability to revolt and that tactic is perfectly expressed as gun control.
(Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @06:53AM (1 child)
And yet in other countries people got all that without guns in their hands.
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Monday March 26 2018, @07:38PM
So in your view, oligarchs in the UK would look at the Russian Revolution, and think -- absolutely nothing. They would have no fear, wouldn't worry, wouldn't try to propagandize their own people, wouldn't make concessions to show they aren't bad guys. They'd just look over their and go "huh -- whatever."
Don't be a moron.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday March 26 2018, @02:50PM
I will precisely bring up Mexico, Brazil, etc. They got rid of their guns. It did not get rid of their inequality, rather, doing so ossified it. That wasn't due to lack of firearms or getting them on the black market.
If you make drinking kool-aid mandatory by the law, then anyone who doesn't drink the kool-aid is by definition a criminal. Share everything and those who don't share are just selfish. Let a thousand flowers bloom and any that fail to grow are the fault of the grower. All are ways of mice who have tried to bell the cat.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by mhajicek on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:45PM
So they're tired of the current long and steep downward trend in violence and want to turn it back to the elevated levels of a few decades ago? Anyone who believes we're in the midst of a gun violence epidemic has been thoroughly brainwashed and either hasn't seen or won't believe the actual numbers.
The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
(Score: 2) by hemocyanin on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:20PM
More people (infants) accidentally strangle themselves in bed in each year, than people of all age groups are killed by all rifles of any type, not just AR15s:
2012 numbers, see page 25: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf [cdc.gov]
accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed: 479
Anyway, if you really want to "do something" or "think of the children" -- you're wasting your time hating on the Bill of Rights.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:28PM
Don't parrot media and twitter talking points; ask better questions and get better answers:
Try "Why is the US Govt the NRA's bitch?"
Because they represent millions of paying members who are almost all single issue voters if 2nd Amendment issues are in the news and millions and millions more who agree but aren't current members. (Some just don't join or stay because their fundraising is hyper aggressive, some just aren't 'joiners', some are members of GOA and more "hardcore" groups, etc.) It isn't the money the NRA contributes that gives them power, NRA and NRA-ILA are way down the list of political contributors by dollar amount. Don't believe me, go lookup NRA, NRA-ILA and then NEA + NFT for example. The NRA is feared for their power to issue scorecards / endorse. In most places in Red America being labeled "Anti-2nd Amendment" by the NRA will cost you an election faster than a charge of "racism" by the SPLC or being caught fucking your secretary... ok in the current "bangmetoo" era the secretary banging might be more toxic.
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Sunday March 25 2018, @10:20PM (5 children)
Correction: we still have lots of guns in Oz. We consider them guns, not firearms.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @11:51PM (4 children)
Just to add to your correction, here in the UK we've fairly strict gun laws, handguns are banned, automatic weapons are banned, but there is no outright ban on firearms, though there are creeping idiocies like, for example, Scotland, where you now need a licence to own an air weapon, though they're being remarkably quiet on how many of the estimated 500,000 air weapons that they estimated were in legal ownership up until they changed the law have been registered/destroyed (last figures I can find 17,000 licences applied for, 21,000 weapons destroyed).
Anyhoo, as you probably guessed, all this legislation and licensing hasn't stopped the criminal elements from getting their hands on real firearms (e.g. Google 'midlands gun gangs' for a recent example), and I have to also add that it's currently not politically correct to point out that along with the influx of Eastern European economic migrants we also got an influx of Eastern European automatic weaponry..and hand pistols..and grenades (allegedly), and just wait till the Jihadists sneak back...
Meanwhile, we have this. [telegraph.co.uk]
Funny old world, isn't it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @11:55PM
Yechh, I missed that, I either need sleep, booze or coffee or all three of them (coffee makes me sleep, go figure..)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Reziac on Monday March 26 2018, @07:09AM (2 children)
"here in the UK we've fairly strict gun laws, handguns are banned"
With these interesting results:
https://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/ [crimeresearch.org]
Hmmm.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @03:54PM (1 child)
Indeed, they tend to keep very quiet about statistics like these...that is, until they want to justify the arming of the Police..
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday March 27 2018, @03:21AM
And then it's suddenly all deadly butter knives everywhere!!
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:19PM
So where are the promoted mental health videos that would help prevent gun violence and other problems in the first place?
... yea. right.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:21PM (10 children)
I'm totally with the NRA when they say that it's not the guns that kill, it's the people.
But what does that tell you about the US populace? Taking away the guns does indeed do nothing at all to solve the actual problem: that a surprisingly big percentage of Americans are antisocial, power-hungry psychopaths who are not fit for living in a civilized society. Everything else is just a consequence, not a cause.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by idiot_king on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:25PM (7 children)
The fact that you talk about your fellow citizens like that says a lot about what society has fed you over the course of your life.
You think the NRA and media is right when it tells you that other citizens are power-hungry crazies?
Why would the NRA be motivated to tell you that, citizen?
Perhaps, maybe, to sell guns? Hmmm......
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:43PM (1 child)
Hear that "Whooosh" ? That's the sound my sarcasm made as it went by you.
That the US has too many power-hungry people is an observation of a personality trait, which can be made on many levels - not just in killing sprees, but also in your local church comittee's discussion about the thanksgiving feast. We, as a nation, value "can-do spirit", movies show cops regularly, unashamedly, without consequences breaking all rules for " the good of society", ... I could go on without end.
(and OF COURSE the NRA is a lobbying organization twisting the truth. But it's existence, and the amount of it's power, are just consequences of my initial observation)
The US's value system is largely built on strife and conquering, not on living together and compromise. Some of us take that to higher levels than others, but they're just outliers on the bell curve. The problem is the location of the curve, not the outliers. To get rid of the outliers, you have to move the curve.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:12PM
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/saudi-arabia-chop-square-beheading-453240 [ibtimes.co.uk]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 25 2018, @03:59PM (3 children)
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:00PM (2 children)
Can't believe I typed my response inside of the quotes. Ho-hum. One day, I may learn to preview my submissions.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by idiot_king on Sunday March 25 2018, @04:04PM (1 child)
Doubt it...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 26 2018, @09:02AM
Really doubt it. Runaway1956 (2926) has shown a remarkable resistance to learning, or for that matter, any other form of behavior modification. Deplorable and incorrigible. Signing him up for the Miss Arkansas/Hilary Clinton/Sarah Huckabee Sanders re-education camp. Last chance.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 25 2018, @05:39PM
distrust of fellow citizens comes from government propaganda largely. the NRA is a pretty pitiful boogey man as they are not nearly radical enough. all you useful idiots are going to do is kick off a catastrophic civil war. where you will learn what "gun violence" really is.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Monday March 26 2018, @11:24AM
Temporary embarrassed millionaires are just embarrassed not less psychopathic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Tuesday March 27 2018, @03:28AM
"a surprisingly big percentage of Americans are antisocial, power-hungry psychopaths who are not fit for living in a civilized society."
Compared to what??
https://crimeresearch.org/2014/03/comparing-murder-rates-across-countries/ [crimeresearch.org]
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.