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No Evidence to Support Link Between Violent Video Games and Behaviour :
In a series of experiments, with more than 3,000 participants, the team demonstrated that video game concepts do not 'prime' players to behave in certain ways and that increasing the realism of violent video games does not necessarily increase aggression in game players.
The dominant model of learning in games is built on the idea that exposing players to concepts, such as violence in a game, makes those concepts easier to use in 'real life'. This is known as 'priming', and is thought to lead to changes in behaviour. Previous experiments on this effect, however, have so far provided mixed conclusions.
Researchers at the University of York expanded the number of participants in experiments, compared to studies that had gone before it, and compared different types of gaming realism to explore whether more conclusive evidence could be found
[...] "The findings suggest that there is no link between these kinds of realism in games and the kind of effects that video games are commonly thought to have on their players.
"Further study is now needed into other aspects of realism to see if this has the same result. What happens when we consider the realism of by-standing characters in the game, for example, and the inclusion of extreme content, such as torture?
"We also only tested these theories on adults, so more work is needed to understand whether a different effect is evident in children players."
Journal Reference:
David Zendle, Daniel Kudenko, Paul Cairns. Behavioural realism and the activation of aggressive concepts in violent video games. Entertainment Computing, 2018; 24: 21 DOI: 10.1016/j.entcom.2017.10.003
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @07:17PM
The corralation between violence and child abuse and people who "think of the children" and demand these kinds of studies is likely quite high.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by IndigoFreak on Monday November 19 2018, @07:18PM (22 children)
I recently read an article blaming online porn for reduced sexual activity in millenials. So by that logic violent video games should reduce violence since it allows for a release.
I'm not agreeing with or disagreeing, just pointing out how in one instance we expect more(violence) but the other get less(sex).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Monday November 19 2018, @07:23PM (14 children)
Does the person getting shot in the video game enjoy it ?
Because in porn, the girl being treated like shit acts as if she enjoys it, biasing the perception that the behavior is acceptable in real life, however painful it actually is.
Does the violent video game portray being the victim of the violence positively, propping up behavior, or negatively/neutrally ?
(Score: 3, Touché) by MostCynical on Monday November 19 2018, @08:07PM (2 children)
"That was fun, shoot me again"
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 2) by edIII on Monday November 19 2018, @10:05PM (1 child)
Are we talking about video games or porn?
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by MostCynical on Monday November 19 2018, @10:49PM
Yes.
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @08:15PM (7 children)
That's a heteronormative and sex-negative view. Have you actually surveyed porn actresses to see what they think, or is that your anti-porn bias talking?
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday November 19 2018, @08:40PM (6 children)
I apologize for forgetting to mention that guys and trannies also likely get the shit beat out of them (I'll let others do that research), in ways that essentially all would ellipse as "it pays the bills".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Mykl on Monday November 19 2018, @11:01PM (4 children)
I think AC was referring to your assumption that porn actresses who engage in 'rough play' movies never enjoy it. I will freely concede that there are almost certainly individuals in the porn industry who engage in acts purely to 'pay the bills', but I am equally convinced that some of those actors really are enjoying themselves when doing things that you personally don't like.
(Score: 1, Offtopic) by mrpg on Tuesday November 20 2018, @02:44AM (3 children)
https://www.pinkcross.org.au/ [pinkcross.org.au]
*Warning*: This web site contains large doses of truth about the sex industry for purposes of recovery and education.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:01AM (2 children)
Let's recap:
Are you suggesting that the existence of this website means that all sex industry workers are being mistreated? It's a bit of long bow.
By the way, it's not the best site to support your argument re: porn. All of the stories on the site refer to prostitutes rather than porn stars (I would say that there are differences between the two), and the same woman's headshot appears on two different people's stories.
(Score: 2) by mrpg on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:30AM (1 child)
I suggest that some of them are mistreated.
(Score: 2) by Mykl on Tuesday November 20 2018, @06:31AM
Agreed
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:05AM
Holy shit, what kind of porn are you in to?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @10:48PM
Porn involves acting. If someone can't separate fantasy from reality, whether that fantasy is porn or a video game, they have severe mental issues.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @10:53PM (1 child)
You'll notice in some porn they look like they're having fun. In others they don't.
Over the years I've noticed that there is certainly a sort of man who likes unhappy looking porn. I get the impression that these aren't guys who have lots of sex and the thought of having good sex is more or less foreign to them. I've seen these sorts of guys insist that women don't actually enjoy sex and just let guys do it in order the get stuff from them.
Anyhow what is this sort of behavior that the woman appears to enjoy and yet must be unenjoyable?
Getting hammered rhythmically for 45 minutes? Yeah nobody involved likes that. The real reason they do that in porn is because while it's awful sex it's easy to film, edit, and view. Go ahead and look at videos of people screwing on pornhub. Real sex is as visually boring on flim as a real fight. They're not trying to make it real.
Ironically it's prudes like you who have squashed frank sexual discussion in America and now young people are forced to try and recreate the awkward unenjoyable sex they see on the internet.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday November 19 2018, @10:58PM
> it's prudes like you
WTF did that come from ? Not from the comment you're replying to, for sure. Projecting much ?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @08:01PM (4 children)
I was finishing up High School when the Columbine shooting took place. This was exactly the thought of me and most of my friends at the time. Had a bad day? Fire up Quake, Half Life or whichever game was big that year. Turn the codes on and blow things up - it's a better way to blow off steam than getting in a real fight.
If it isn't violent video games maybe we can blame Marilyn Manson or Eminem. Or Canada.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday November 19 2018, @10:32PM (3 children)
Blame Canada [youtube.com]
And for those that want to sing along...
Time's have changed
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse
Should we blame the government?
Or blame society?
Or should we blame the images on TV?
No, blame Canada, blame Canada
With all their beady little eyes
And flappin' heads so full of lies
Blame Canada, blame Canada
We need to form a full assault
It's Canada's fault
Don't blame me for my son Stan
He saw the darn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan
And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself
Well, blame Canada, blame Canada
It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Blame Canada, blame Canada
There not even a real country anyway
My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer rich and true
Instead he burned up like a piggy on a barbecue
Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Heck no
Blame Canada, blame Canada
With all their hockey hullabaloo
And that bitch Anne Murray too
Blame Canada, shame on Canada
The smut we must stop, the trash we must smash
Laughter and fun must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before someone thinks of blaming us
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:09AM (2 children)
That film is almost old enough to drink in the US.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:36AM
The movie is older than Brett Kavanaugh was when he started to drink.
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday November 20 2018, @03:25PM
What I really liked was that the censors would not allow it by its original title: South Park: All Hell Breaks Loose
So they changed it to: South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut
and the censors didn't see any problem with a simple description of how the film compares to a tv episode.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @08:12PM
Though I've seen more than one modern puritan insisting that porn is responsible for the skyrocketing number of rapes happening right now.
You know, the skyrocketing number there's no evidence of.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Monday November 19 2018, @09:48PM
You're making the assumption that the reduction in sexual activity is due to a sexual release provided by online porn. Quite frankly, that assumption in of itself needs to be tested. There could be different dynamics at play, body dismorphic disorder, or any one of the other socially deleterious effects often suspected to be caused by social media.
Porn existed before the dial-up modem. If you were less than 18, then you were a porn thief. Plain and simple. Either looking for your dads playboy, finding a couple of stag films and a projector, or your father's sex book (Ancient China). Later on, it was stealing VHS tapes from the corner of the porn section and putting that tape into a PG13 container and praying like hell. After 18, and especially in college, you just went down to the porn store and loaded up on whatever titles were requested. A comedian even joked about that recently, even though it was standard practice AFAIK.
If we want to play with assumptions, I'm going with this world is even less connected before (at least socially), a lot harder (more work for less money with less opportunity for true advancement and almost no hope for a good future), and a lot more stressful. Quite frankly, nobody young today could possibly understand just how fucking good we really had it in the 70s and 80s before toxix hellbound c-suites went nuclear on the unions and exported all of our jobs. At least the good meaningful jobs that contributed to a strong middle class. Service worker jobs with shit pay shouldn't even count.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @07:31PM (1 child)
They tested the "Link Between Violent Video Games and Behaviour" by varying the realism of violence in games.
What they didn't test was games against other uses of one's time.
I claim that the game content doesn't matter much, but games still cause behavior issues. When playing games, you get a constant stream of little addictive rewards and you don't have to resolve conflicts with humans. People with social difficulties tend to use games as an escape. The social difficulties need not be overcome. You can just retreat into the game world. You don't learn how to interact face-to-face with humans.
(Score: 1) by r_a_trip on Tuesday November 20 2018, @03:07PM
Which realistically will lead to these people withdrawing from people interaction as much as possible. What it doesn't necessarily lead to is violence. There are more ways of dealing with conflict in an unhealthy way than resorting to force. A very big one is avoidance.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Monday November 19 2018, @07:52PM
I think of this a bit like the people who have been trying to convince us that cell phone cause cancer.
Despite 20 + years of effort they still can't provide evidence.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by acid andy on Monday November 19 2018, @08:04PM (5 children)
First off, I don't have a problem with responsible adults enjoying violent video games. If someone is going to perform a violent act, then they clearly have other problems. However, I doubt these sort of experiments are going to pick up any significant change in behavior from playing the games, as there are too many other factors involved. I think the games are just a small part of the wider culture of guns and killing becoming very socially acceptable in a fictional context in America. The Hollywood action movies did it first. So you'd have to isolate your test subjects from all those other variables and have 3,000 people that had never seen a violent movie or played a violent game be tested, then have them play the games for a year or two, then run the tests again. The effects would probably be subtle and I suspect an adult brain would be less impressionable than the developing brain of a child.
Intuitively, I think the culture probably makes it slightly more likely for someone to develop an interest in guns--simply because it's harder to become interested in something you are not exposed to. But whether it would increase violent tendencies, I suspect it depends on how impressionable the person is. The behavior of peers can influence someone's own behavior and values but for someone to actually bend their own values based on those in fiction, I think they'd have to be someone who has trouble distinguishing reality from fiction. I think violence in games and movies probably has a very mild desensitization effect--in that people might feel shock the first time they see these, that later diminishes--but as I understand it the military have done experiments that show you can't desensitize people through exposure to real violence beyond a certain point.
You also have to weigh the above effects against the fact that for many people I think violent games could be an outlet for aggression to blow off steam which would actually make violent behavior less likely in the real world.
This study tried to test violent tendencies through word association. Is that even a reliable way to test it? Couldn't they have got them boxing or something?
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by IndigoFreak on Monday November 19 2018, @10:34PM (4 children)
Slightly touching on one of your points. I think our culture in the USA is to blame for our gun problems. If guns weren't so glorified in movies, music, video games, and language, we would have fewer problems.
People will always kill each other, but in the states you solve your problems by grabbing a gun.
You can argue that the availability is an issue, but if the desire is there all you will get is a black market.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by acid andy on Monday November 19 2018, @11:57PM
I always figured the glorification might be a deliberate strategy to churn out a nation of willing soldiers. When you look at the budget, the military is always a very high priority. </tinfoil hat>
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @09:58AM (2 children)
As a European I think so to, for Western Europe, with possible the exception of the island people, it always amazes me the amount of outrage and anger following a nipple slip or whatever irrelevant nude thing happening. Followed by complete immunity to blood, guts & gore in the evening news.
Your ratings for films and games follow this to; be-headings, blood & gore splattering all over the place, torture, all fine, everything goes as long as the actors are clothed. Take of their clothes and they're not even allowed to raise their voice anymore.
And is that censorship thing still going on so strong? Watching "whose line is it anyway" back in the day, it annoyed me to see blocked out hands and beeped over words.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:32PM (1 child)
As an American I must say it's choice for people from a continent with a history like Europe's to have anything to say to anyone on the subject of violence.
Americans have a long way to go before we equal the violence and depravity of Europeans. Holocaust? Inquisition? Normal jurisprudence in the Middle Ages? Heck, Vlad the Impaler out-Turked the damn Turks and single-handedly set the bar waaaaay higher than America has even approached.
(This comment also applies to Russians, anyone from the Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, or China also). So give us a break and think a bit before throwing stones.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @06:24PM
Eh? Where the hell do you think the (non-native) Americans came from?
(Score: 5, Interesting) by meustrus on Monday November 19 2018, @08:13PM (12 children)
These results aren't necessarily comparable to previous results. The reason is that most previous studies were undertaken in America, and Americans and Brits are different.
This happens all the time in psychology. Usually, the impact is that psychological effects unique to Americans are improperly projected onto all of humanity. In this case, it raises a peculiar question: are Americans in any way more susceptible to 'priming' than Brits? And a follow-up: does this affect extend beyond video games into other media, such as TV, movies, cable news, or advertisements?
Perhaps what's really at play here is whatever force causes Americans to commit more gun violence per gun owner than any other nation in the world. But I'm not holding my breath for anyone to study inter-cultural differences in 'priming'.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 2) by splodus on Monday November 19 2018, @08:58PM (5 children)
Very much this!
I’ve never even seen a gun! Let alone fired one! I wouldn’t know where to get a gun – I don’t know anyone who could. For pretty much everyone in the UK – there simply are no guns.
So a computer game with guns is pure fantasy for us – ‘we’ (UK citizens) can’t be ‘primed’ to go out and shoot people, cos we can’t get guns with which to shoot people anyway…
(Personally, I doubt the video games make any difference anyway – but the demographic here should absolutely be taken into account...)
(Score: 3, Funny) by takyon on Monday November 19 2018, @09:28PM
But watching too much Great British Bake Off causes you to attack each other with knives...
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @10:28PM (1 child)
You've not been Christmas shopping in the past 2 years? Link: 1 [dailymail.co.uk] 2 [thesun.co.uk] Forgive the sources -- google it for multiple local papers covering this
You can't live in a rural area and have never seen a shotgun and I have no idea where you live in the UK but it doesn't sound like the country I live in. [parliament.uk]
(Score: 2) by splodus on Tuesday November 20 2018, @02:10PM
I've lived in rural Devon for 50 years - never been interested in going on a shoot so never seen a shotgun...
Your link to the report on gun crime puts Firearm Offences in the South West at 4 per 100,000 population!
I did just remember though as a kid seeing guns in a sports shop in Heavitree - not sure if they were shotguns or air-rifles, but maybe I have seen a gun after all? Ha!
(Score: 3, Funny) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 19 2018, @10:45PM
You don't know where to get a gun? Just 3D print one.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:35PM
Meanwhile, Americans and the rest of the world are mystified that Britons cannot watch the most tedious sport in the world without rioting, burning, and trampling innocent bystanders to death.
You're weird in your way, we're weird in ours.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @09:19PM
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:26AM (4 children)
Remember that the high level of gun violence is due to young blacks shooting each other. They are kept in a parallel society, while the majority culture is ok with them killing each other, as long as they don't take their violence to white areas.
I guess the hope is they will eventually become extinct while being replaced by people from south of the border.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:25AM (3 children)
I am surprised that parent post hasn't been modded down already. But, he brings up an important bit of data. Overall, most shootings take place in impoverished inner cities, with blacks shooting blacks. At the same time, most nutcases who just open up, and start shooting random people are white. Just a couple things to think about.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @08:38AM (2 children)
Except for those that take place in impoverished Appalachian hell holes where people play banjo and ask you to squeal like pig. Or in the Ozarchs, where the Runaways doth lie. You are a racist bigot, Runaway, and I shoot in your general direction, just to see you hug the ground like the coward you are. No wonder you signed up for the Navy.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:36PM
Aristarchus, we all know it's you. Just own your words. Don't fear the troll mod. If you don't draw the foul you're not playing the game right.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @06:27PM
You're the racist, Ari. You don't think there are black people in Apalachia? Or the Ozarks? Speaking of squealing like a pig - do you have any new little boys to talk about? You Cretins know all about making little boys squeal!
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @08:41PM (4 children)
And there's no link between advertising and sales, or political propaganda and votes. So, that means the Russians did nothing but make some noise on Facebook. And that means we can talk important things... like baseball, and the weather. You think the Cubs will have to wait another hundred years before winning another World Series? You guys getting any snow yet?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @09:20PM (1 child)
Very different scenarios here. Show me the advertising and propaganda that makes people engage in the worst moral offenses. Military propaganda would fit the bill, but that only opens more of this complex nutshell.
I don't know why I bothered responding to you, you're obviously an AC troll pushing pro-trump anti-science agendas.
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 19 2018, @09:24PM
I see, so anything you disagree with or don't understand is "Pro-Trump"... The pathology you suffer has a name, but I forget what it's called.
And "morals"? Please! Do tell!
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Monday November 19 2018, @11:06PM (1 child)
Propagandists try very hard to fake facts, and it can be hard to tell who's lying and who's telling it straight. Whereas video games are like fiction. They aren't trying to pretend they're reputable and reliable news reports or scientific findings, they're entertainment and they don't deny it. Sometimes, when caught in their lies and contradictions, propagandists try to claim they were just entertainment.
Really, what this long standing supposition asks is if we are so stupid and impressionable that "monkey see, monkey do" describes our behavior.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:15AM
Intent is irrelevant to the question of effectiveness of mass media. I, for one, believe in free will, and the effect could be zero, depending on one's personal choice to be influenced.
(Score: 2) by DutchUncle on Monday November 19 2018, @09:45PM (1 child)
Alan Dean Foster, "Quozl", had a race of aliens who engaged in ULTRA-violent video games (more like holodeck) exactly so that they would NOT be tempted to act that way in real life. I'll bet there is more difference in the individual than in the game; some people will play FPS and say "that was fun but I'd never do it for real", some will say "I wonder what it's like to do that for real". I wonder about the same distinction between laser tag and paintball.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday November 20 2018, @03:38AM
I could tell he was wishing we were using real guns
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by looorg on Monday November 19 2018, @10:06PM (5 children)
It would seem that there is an underlying problem here, the idea that violent video-games are violent or for that matter have any kind of connection to reality. No matter how cool the graphics or how awesome the physics engine. There just are not any transferable usable skills between shooting people in video games and actually shooting guns. If anything it might actually make it worse since you would have to unlearn all the shitty ideas you thought you picked up from video games or just popular culture in general.
The whole idea of the killer training simulator is just a fantasy, if it was real in any way shape or form we would have millions and millions of trained sharpshooters in the world today. We don't.
Just as there is no transferable skills from shooting combat games there is non from fighting games either. You will not be Bruce Lee cause you played 1000's of hours of Street Fighter (etc) -- no matter how much you try to focus your chi there will be no special hadoken attack.
There is no realism in violent video-games. Even if you have programmed rag-doll physics in it. There is just not enough transfer of game-weapon-skills to actual-weapon-skills. Having played a large amount of computer games could probably even be detrimental to it, so many garbage ideas you have unlearn first. Even if it was a fighting game there would be none. Actually punching someone in the face is not like doing that or other things in a video game.
Out of 3000 "random" people they didn't find any. It might be interesting to see tho if you could find a group where it could be a trigger. Perhaps people with a propensity for violence or just generally poor self-control. They should find loads of those kind of people in the nearest prison.
There is your target audience. People, or children, without a firm grasp of reality. Sure they might actually believe that game and movie violence is real. The same group of people that might also believe that Santa is an actual jolly fat guy that comes and bring them gifts if they are nice. So they are basically idiots. That is why we, try to, teach them things so they won't remain idiots forever and can eventually actually become useful. Somehow I don't see 'All I ever needed to know I learned from playing GTA' being the training we had in mind.
So they assumed something would happen. Proving once again that when you assume you make an ass of u and me. While I am a big fan of the kind of studies, that prove the obvious we already knew before, sometimes it does get a bit tedious. We already know there is no actual transfer of skills and knowledge. If there was it would have revolutionize the entire education system by now. So while reading articles and/or papers like these I usually try and find the paragraph where the researchers explain that they where all wrong and the experiment was kind shit. Somehow finding that is even more rare then the actual transfer of violence and skills of video-games to reality.
/If reality was like a video game/
As an example it would actually be kind of amusing (or horrible) if it had been true. I would have learned to drive a car from playing hours and hours of riding my red Ferrari in Outrun. Sweet tunes, hot babe in the passenger seat. All my driving goals have to be reached in minutes or the engine just stops and I have to insert more coins. If I flip the car over it will magically turn around and float back to the road again, where I once again accelerate away with screeching tires as a bat out of hell. It's a good thing my driving coach wasn't Carmageddon.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:06PM (2 children)
I would extend your commentary (which I mostly agree with) and provide an interesting observation/example/analogy:
As a trained soldier in the Army (well, a quarter century ago) I'm probably 1000 times more lethal than a member of the general public (zombie movies are not too realistic, LOL), sure there's expert civilian hunters but in the Army we have expert snipers who can outshoot civvies... You'd think having millions of highly trained and experienced professional trigger pullers floating around would result in staggering murder rates for veterans, yet the stat variation compared to the general public is pretty much noise, if that.
Odd how school shootings are always high school kids on anti-depressants who get relatively low scores. If mere skill and experience and enjoyment were issues, you'd rationally expect my bros (grand-bros, I guess, given my age, LOL) in the reserves, guard, and ROTC would be sweeping the streets of college campuses given extensive training skill and enjoyment of the shooting sport, yet... it practically never happens. You get the occasional Muslim at Ft Hood around a decade ago, that's about it.
Odd how the military screening out and/or treating mental illness seems to nearly eliminate school shootings. Yet the legacy media (professional liars) tell us a much more ridiculous story about how touching an assault rifle means everyone gonna die at school because the rifle will give you evil cooties. Almost like they have a hidden agenda.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @03:18PM
I expect you also learned a discipline and respect for the weapon and the power within it.
People going to the gun shop to buy something are not likely to get that from the sales person.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:44PM
I would add the physicality of shooting a gun and engaging in a firefight further argues against the transference from virtual scenarios. Guns are heavy and loud. The smell of cordite can choke you. Taking aim and reloading are harder to do when you're shaking with fear/adrenaline. Running from cover to cover will have you breathing hard.
Even if you're shooting at targets without anyone firing back, you have to master breath control and aiming. Video games teach none of that.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:47PM
It depends on if the game tries to simulate reality.
You might not learn to drive from MarioKart, but Gran Turismo teaches the concepts of how to accelerate out of turns and how to drive on low traction surfaces.
You might not learn how to shoot from Unreal Tournament, but America's Army will teach you that you should shoot at the center of mass, not headshots, and that precise shots should be done at the top or bottom of your breathing.
The only real life examples I've encountered were:
1. Steering into a turn when traction is lost (hours of racing games apparently made it intuitive for me even though it isn't for others).
2. Friends who did paintball using small group tactics they learned from Rainbow Six.
(Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:05PM
> The whole idea of the killer training simulator is just a fantasy, if it was real in any way shape or form we would have millions and millions of trained sharpshooters in the world today. We don't.
Disagree.
You don't need to be a highly-trained sharpshooter to commit an atrocity. Training is very important when you're a soldier up against a similarly trained, equipped and prepared military force, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the random murder of unsuspecting innocents. In that context, plenty of force multipliers are readily available (especially in the USA) that make can turn a socially inept GTA fan into a deadly killer with absurd ease. To walk into a cinema or church or school or whatever and kill a bunch of people by indiscriminately spraying bullets around does not require a Navy SEAL skiilset. indeed, the USA thoughtfully schedules weekly mass-shootings to remind us of this fact, and a quick google will provide you with more examples than most people could stomach. And of course it's not just guns, there are plenty of other ways for untrained civilians to kill - look at the use of vehicles as weapons that seems to be coming into vogue. Only basic driving skills and minimal resources required.
No, I would argue that the only real thing that separates a regular member of the public from a mass killer is the mindset of wanting to kill and then actually going through with it. That's the only "skill" that needs to be "trained". That's what supposedly requires a "murder simulator". Once someone has that mindset, the acquisition of weapons and the technicalities of using those weapons effectively are mere details. Weapons training might make the difference between six victims and sixty before they are stopped1, but either way you have a killer.
Whether or not violent games actually do train people in this way is the real question being debated in this thread.
1 although in reality these mass killers tend to stop themselves before anyone else can get there in time - so the limiting factor is, once again, the willingness to kill and keep on killing rather than absence of l33t ninja skillz.
(Score: 2) by stretch611 on Monday November 19 2018, @10:13PM (7 children)
According to Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin... blame the continuing occurrence of U.S. mass shootings on America’s culture that "celebrates death" through zombie television shows and abortion. [newsweek.com]
Of course, this is the same Kentucky Governor Matt Bevin that a year ago blamed violent video games and shows, not guns [cincinnati.com]
Now with 5 covid vaccine shots/boosters altering my DNA :P
(Score: 4, Interesting) by krishnoid on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:21AM
Can we find out if there's evidence to support a link between violent government policy and behaviour? I wish someone would bring this up instead.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @07:14AM (4 children)
And why would you blame guns? You don't blame cars when someone is run over. You don't blame arms and legs when someone is beat to death. Or do you have a habit of blaming things on inanimate objects? Maybe in that case you should blame god for executing the devine plan.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @08:44AM (1 child)
FTFY, though for God's sake, and in his infinite mercy and goodness and lack of grammar errors, what does cleaning shrimp have to do with anything? Are you are FPS Video game heathen? Will you burn in hell, for all the innocent video game souls you have taken, in intent if not in actuality? And what do you have against crustaceans? May Gawd have Mercurichrome upon your soul. Oww! That's gotta hurt!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:14PM
Apparently you misspelled the word too, it's "devein". Why can't english be a phonemically orthographic language? "Tö reis vas kuud, bat tö taiers veör sliperi änd vii didnt häv taim tu adjast tö vings"
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:49PM (1 child)
Given the above it would be interesting to hear ACs thoughts on the Jewish Question.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @01:18PM
What's the question?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:56PM
Speaking of abortion, the rates has imploded since 1980 although its still worth pointing out that it kills thousands of times as many people as school shooters or teen violence in general. Eventually abortion will become illegal not because of "literally Hitler" (although we can dream...) but because so few people are getting abortions it becomes a crazy fringe issue no longer relevant. The collapse as seen on graphs really is shocking; abortion is going away soon.
Yet its not like pr0n has disappeared from computer screens since 1980, LOL. So I'm a little confused how putting a naked chick on a computer screen makes interest in sex collapse resulting in a 50% collapse in abortion rates since 1980, but putting a gun on the same screen is supposedly killing all our kids. Having been a teen boy some decades ago, I assure you we instinctively like chicks, guns, and chicks with guns, but propaganda doesn't seem to influence us as much as insane expenditures of PR money would like.
It DOES seem you can correlate a historical graph of teen anti-depressant use with a graph of school shootings, but big pharma spends a lot of money on legacy media advertising, unlike teen boy video games, so according to legacy media, "the problem must be the video games"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @11:50AM
I've played violent games for years. Doom. Quake. Counterstrike.
My father showed me how to handle a gun. How to shoot.
I never had the urge to run around shooting people.
That might just be me though.
(Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Tuesday November 20 2018, @12:48PM
Note that when the "cool kids" talk about what the legacy media and legacy political parties think is "cool' like SJW stuff in games like RDR2, the point isn't that its a realistic or fun game but that you're a member of the cool kids club by publicly hating whitey outside the game.
Meanwhile as a theory theres a subculture of gamers who see machine gunning zombies not entirely as fun but as an active display of identity to a group similar to the above, but with people that don't suck as much.
Its not that unrealistic; think of little-er kids talking each other into watching movies that are too scary for kids their age.
Watching my kids, Fortnite is basically kids playing tag. Its not nearly as gory and disturbing as TV and movie content. Multiplayer becomes silly, for a long time they were base jumping using their parachutes in tilted towers instead of playing the game "the right way" and the last couple days its been going to fatal fields to take the ATV and drive around like maniacs instead of playing the game. Actually this reminds me a lot of minecraft (and real life) where kids kinda make their own fun regardless what adults say is "supposed" to be going on. Fortnite is quite popular in high school and its much less gory and bloody than wolf3d (the original) which was quite popular when I was at uni. Fortnite reminds me of Warner Bros cartoons from the WWII era; I'm surprised they don't have a giant anvil being dropped on the road runner.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday November 20 2018, @03:29PM (1 child)
When I was young I played very violent games like Frogger and Space Invaders. Yet here I am. Sane and rational. And so far as I can determine, I have not been involuntarily committed to a mental health care facility.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 20 2018, @05:37PM
The irony of seeing this on SN is just too precious for words.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 20 2018, @04:53PM
I can imagine one way playing a lot of video games could lead to increased violence.
As social animals, a great many of our learned behaviors address conflict resolution and violence avoidance. Those behaviors are like any skill, and have to be used constantly or they will be forgotten. So if a person plays so many video games he eschews a normal amount of social interaction, he will un-learn techniques learned as a toddler to de-escalate conflicts.
The chance that social interactions result in perceived negative outcomes for that person will grow, and if enough of those accumulate in a sufficiently short period of time, the chance for outright violence will grow.
If there's anything in that theory, then it could be any video game, not just violent ones. In fact, it could be excessive social media consumption, spending too much time with your smartphone, or any of the many other competitors we have now for good old fashioned human contact. We could be in for much worse.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Bot on Wednesday November 21 2018, @12:43PM
I'm a gamer (you may see me around in your fave FPS, my name is Bot). And anecdotically I would agree, but:
1. studies that find no correlations are not as significant as studies who find correlations and easier to fudge.
2. I cannot be aware of the influence of games because there is no alternate universe where I grew up without them to use as reference.
3. they should study general exposure to violence, so video, music, subliminal messages... Restricting self selectively to one of those brainwashing avenues and not considering the aggregate might discard every single one, yet not being aware of their collective influence.
Account abandoned.