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Michael Kovrig, former Canadian diplomat, reportedly arrested in China
A former Canadian diplomat has reportedly been arrested in China. The International Crisis Group said Tuesday it's aware of reports that its North East Asia senior adviser Michael Kovrig has been detained.
The Brussels-based non-governmental organization said in a statement it's doing everything possible to obtain additional information about Kovrig's whereabouts and that it will work to ensure his prompt release.
The Globe and Mail in Toronto and the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. reported the arrest, citing unnamed sources.
Reports of Kovrig's detention come after China warned Canada of consequences for its recent arrest of Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou at Vancouver's airport. It's unclear if there's any link between the cases.
Some Chinese companies ban iPhones, require Huawei after CFO's arrest: report
Some Chinese companies are banning iPhones and requiring that their employees use Huawei products following the arrest of Huawei's chief financial officer, according to a new Yahoo News report. Meng Wanzhou, the CFO of Chinese telecom giant Huawei, was arrested by Canadian authorities last Saturday at the request of the U.S. after allegedly violating trade sanctions against Iran. Chinese officials have strongly protested Meng's detention.
Now, Chinese companies are promoting Huawei and barring Apple, an American company. Menpad, an LCD display maker and Huawei supplier, on Monday said it will punish employees who buy iPhones with a fine equivalent to the American smartphone's market price, the South China Morning Post reported. It also vowed that the company will no longer buy American products, including office supplies and computers, and will offer a 15 percent subsidy for employees who are buying Huawei phones, according to the Post.
Japan's top three telcos to exclude Huawei, ZTE network equipment: Kyodo
Japan's big three telecom operators plan not to use current equipment and upcoming fifth-generation (5G) gear from China's Huawei Technologies Co Ltd and ZTE Corp, Kyodo News reported on Monday.
The news, for which Kyodo did not cite sources, comes at a time of heightened scrutiny of Chinese tech firms by Washington and some prominent allies over ties to the Chinese government, driven by concerns they could be used by Beijing for spying. Last week sources told Reuters that Japan planned to ban government purchases of equipment from Huawei and ZTE to ensure strength in its defences against intelligence leaks and cyber attacks.
See also: How Meng Wanzhou's Arrest Might Backfire
Previously: Canada Arrests Huawei's Global Chief Financial Officer in Vancouver
Arrest of Huawei Executive Causing Discontent Among Chinese Elites
Related: New Law Bans U.S. Government from Buying Equipment from Chinese Telecom Giants ZTE and Huawei
Australia Bans China's Huawei (and maybe ZTE) from 5G Mobile Network Project
Washington Asks Allies to Drop Huawei
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:07AM (27 children)
Told you so.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:08AM (24 children)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:45AM (4 children)
(Score: 3, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:17AM (3 children)
We'll see who else ends saying "fraud" as well. A jury saying that is a very different matter.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:29AM (2 children)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:58AM (1 child)
They can't care less than to make a public demonstration, no doubt with weeks of media coverage, that they care enough to stage a fake court trial, that is. That is a great deal of care.
If they truly couldn't care any less, then there would be no response at all.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:23PM
As fake as the "trials" are in the US. We seem to be staging a lot of them. They all appear to have a certain "give me six lines" theme to them.
(Score: 2) by richtopia on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:34AM (18 children)
Meng was arrested in Canada. I suspect this is more of a tit-for-tat, and a message to Canada to stay out of the trade dispute politics.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @02:58PM (17 children)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:59PM (16 children)
Other countries will just happen to have to verify whether that US warrant is printed in the right font and on A4 paper while ... oops ... the Chinese citizen already departed. What a stroke of bad luck !
When the US president is busy insulting or picking fights with most of the World, the Chinese are busy leveraging their soft power and their money. When you need allies to make decisions that could piss off one of the two sides, details matter.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:56PM (15 children)
Because they didn't really need an international treaty system anyway, amirite? The point here is that the US made a legitimate request. They're merely following the law. Then we repeatedly have this insistence that because China is a bad actor, we should not follow the law. It doesn't make sense.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:24PM (14 children)
The subtle and complex art of diplomacy includes knowing when to make exceptions, look away, or make mistakes to get to a result that satisfies some without angering others.
And then keep a list, for when it's your turn to need a mistake.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:46PM (13 children)
Like the "subtle diplomacy" that led to the Second World War? Throwing away basic principles of your society in order to appease the powerful just might have a few unintended consequences.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:51PM (12 children)
"knowing when to"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:56PM (11 children)
That you're still posting indicates to me that you don't know when to.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:10PM (10 children)
And there I thought we were just having a civil disagreement...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:23PM (2 children)
You are talking to khallow. He/she/it pretends to be civil as a strategy for "winning", but there is very little critical thinking going on there. The goal is to keep poking away at your statements till you get upset, then they can claim the moral and logical high ground.
As you can see here they make zero attempt to understand nuances in the debate and simply hold to their agenda.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:57PM (1 child)
Even if that were true, it's a game you can't play. Once again, we have the posts by an AC about mean-ole khallow and how he's keeping us from having fun or something.
The problem here is that this is a matter of law not a matter of diplomacy. And bob_super is proposing to corrupt this whole system of law merely to let a powerful, rich person free. Not only that, it works against his very principles. For example, he had this to say about the state of the world:
What happens the next hundred times this occurs? How much "discontent" is that going to build up?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 13 2018, @03:06PM
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:35PM (6 children)
We are. But the key problem here is that your "diplomacy" would compromise a key part of Canada and the US's society, its rule of law, merely to placate temporarily some rich person who happens to have some pull with the Chinese government. You can talk about how "subtle and complex" it is, but the bottom line is that you're throwing all that away for nothing.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:45PM (5 children)
You must be new at world affairs.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:20PM (4 children)
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday December 13 2018, @05:39PM (3 children)
As I said: You must be new.
That precedent was set a long long time ago. Before US presidents set up coups in other countries. Before Truman dropped two A-bombs. Before W ordered people tortured.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 14 2018, @04:50AM (2 children)
And yet, you still don't seem to get it. You're backtracking on your own beliefs [soylentnews.org], not merely beliefs you don't really care about.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday December 14 2018, @05:41PM (1 child)
Oh, I see. You're confused.
This thread is an acknowledgment of realpolitik.
That doesn't mean I'm happy with it.
Don't mistake pointing out that the powerful will play their games, for not wanting to see many of them have a Battle Royale in retribution for doing so.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday December 14 2018, @11:48PM
Cognitive dissonance does that.
Sometimes we have to do things that we don't want to do. I think this is one of those cases.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:14AM
Movies turned to shit when the (((executives))) started pursuing the Chinese market.
Hopefully they'll be forced to satisfy Western audiences again.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @08:10PM
No kidding. Is there anyone who did not see this coming? Anyone?
(Score: 4, Insightful) by legont on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:18AM (1 child)
Not just consequences, but "grave consequences".
Meng was arrested not for violating sanctions, but for lying to banks - fraud.
Sales of iPhones were halted by a court of law decision based on patent violations by Apple. https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/10/tech/china-iphone-ban/index.html [cnn.com]
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:01AM
Heh. Give both companies are American, asking China to ensure the application of IP laws seems like an example of "with of literal genie, beware what you wish for".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:19AM (11 children)
Herp-a-derr. This has been a long time coming, and I think it needs to shake itself out, but the US is in a really bad position here...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:16AM (10 children)
We might not have been fighting a trade war, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a trade war. We were just losing.
If we don't try, then we continue to lose. Trump might not win, but at least he is trying, which gives him a chance. There is no chance if you refuse to fight.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @05:16AM (5 children)
The alternative is, of course, Capitalism, whereby people are not forced to pay for services they don't want (such as bombing countries, rebuilding those countries poorly, and throwing people into cages for growing plants in their own homes).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:23PM
and forced buying of bs products like insurance to the point where now various industries are dominated by these leaches.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:31PM (3 children)
The alternative is not capitalism. The alternatives are anarchism and socialism.
If Marx and Proudhon can be reconciled, it might be a system worth pursuing. However, it will most certainly not be capitalism. Capitalist property relations are completely unnatural. Socialist and mutualist property relations are more promising.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:02PM (2 children)
Capitalism is voluntary interaction.
If you want socialism, you must built it atop capitalism; you must constrain it to voluntary interaction. Otherwise, it will devolve into dysfunctional bread lines and "re-education" gulags.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:05PM (1 child)
Capitalism is NOT voluntary interaction, that is a pipe dream subverted by corporate control.
Socialism != Communism
Capitalism and Socialism is the correct way forward, it preserves freedom while providing for society where needed. We do need to start enforcing anti-monopoly legislation, but this might require cooperation between governments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 13 2018, @02:38AM
You expect a violently imposed monopoly ("government") to save us from a voluntarily grown monopoly (a "corporation"). That's absurd.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:39AM
We were in a Trade War with China for many years. But we had VERY WEAK leaders. Who wouldn't fight for America. Who wouldn't even call it a War. They made so many UNFAIR Treaties. The Postal Treaty, the TPP, so many. China was absolutely killing us on trade. 2017, we lost $375 billion from our Coffers to the Trade Deficit -- incredible!! And China was getting ready to do an even bigger number on us, they call it Made in China 2025. Where so much of the cyber, the modern digital, was going to come from their Factories. They wanted it to be where, you go to buy Cell Phone and the only only ones would be Chinese. Or you buy Computer -- Chinese again. Something our Intel community was very worried about. They told me, that one's going to be a big big problem. Because our Spies use Cell Phone, they use Computer, they use so much Digital. And China could wiretapp them very easily. I said, NO WAY! And no more! I did Tariffs. To put the big squeeze on them. And it worked so fabulously. Like you wouldn't believe. And President Xi of China came to me in the Argentine. At the G-20. Saying, "President Donald, please, no more Tariff!" So we're pausing the Trade War. We could win very easily, we're doing Pause. Otherwise known as Peace. It's not Peace. But, it's much better than what we had. It's something nobody expected. And, nobody else could do. I did it. I'm very honered to be the only guy that could do it. Because I have the very special temperament. Also known as Presidential. You're welcome!!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:14PM (2 children)
China was winning because Capitalism doesn't care about slave labor or unpleasant regimes.
The Chinese could build stuff, and build stuff cheap. Using the Chinese also meant access to the giant Chinese market.
All that meant Profits.
Profit is king. US executives won the economic war for China.
China just provided infrastructure, loose regulations, and cheap labor. US/Euro companies rushed in, because that's what Capitalism told them to do.
You want to win that war ? Make it illegal to transfer manufacturing to a cheaper foreign country, and jail the executives who betray their country for a few quarters of profit.
"forced technology transfers" is absolute bullshit. It's "tell me your secrets if you want my market". No gun-to-the-head ultimatum, just an offer greed short-sighted people can't seem to refuse.
China is also spying. But the bulk of what they got, they didn't have to fight for, it was offered to them. And the traitors who delivered the goods got paid handsomely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:41PM
"forced technology transfers" is absolute bullshit. It's "tell me your secrets if you want my market". No gun-to-the-head ultimatum, just an offer greed short-sighted people can't seem to refuse."
i hate to agree with you, but i've been saying this since i heard this whiny line from brainwashed "americans" (i didn't know the propaganda networks had been talking about it for a while).
how can thinking person blame the chinese? at least their government is trying to work in their country's interest. they simply said, "you can have access to our cheap workers but you have to give us the ability to produce this shit ourselves in the future". those bastards! uhh, that should be a demand of every worker and consumer, much less a benevolent dictatorship or whatever the hell they have over there. as for americans, there's nothing fucking patriotic about being a stupid, lazy slave who funds the destruction of humanity by buying closed source, patent encumbered shit.
i can barely sleep at nights b/c i'm so busy crying for the suited whores who took all the jobs overseas...and i'm a libertarian, free market capitalist as far as i can tell with my largely non-existent economics education. basically, i'm pro individual freedom. if you want to self organize as a commune, or socialist coop, or a corp that's your business, but don't use government to try and tell me what to do. i reserve the 2A for that. Either way, these crony capitalist whores make me sick. if you're a free market capitalist who is not so worried about nations then just be honest and say so. don't whine about how it's not your fault because the mean ol' chinese made you be a decent human being for a change. if you gave a shit about the country you could have spent the money and automated here. at least we'd have an advanced economy to show for our callous disregard for the nation's workers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:08PM
Contrapositively:
slavery => (individual <= collective)
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:26AM (2 children)
So, to punish America Chinese companies are banning iPhones, which are manufactured in China and employee scads of Chinese workers?
I don't think they thought that through.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 5, Touché) by vux984 on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:35AM
So the chinese will buy any other smartphone... which is made in China, by the same employees, on their next shift. I think they've thought it through just fine.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:30AM
Chinese government doesn't give a fuck about Chinese workers. Much like the US in that respect.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:43AM (10 children)
I don't think anyone on this forum is surprised. The question is, whether Washington and it's allies have thought this through. Who has the power, and the stamina, to play this game to it's end? Do we have the willingness to make a few sacrifices?
Bear in mind that we've spent the past few decades willingly giving China our trade secrets, technology, and even equipment in many cases, to challenge us today. Most business people will want to fold as soon as their quarterly profits look weak.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:48AM (4 children)
Yep, playing the polically obsessed people:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/11/technology/huawei-executive-canada-bail-decision.html [nytimes.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:58AM (3 children)
Sounds like we don't have the willingness, maybe.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:17AM (2 children)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:44AM (1 child)
Maybe it was. And maybe it wasn't. Who knows? Who really knows?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:27PM
One thing is clear, not you!
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:11AM (4 children)
Depends. Do you volunteer? I'd be willing to sacrifice you but it's so much better if it comes from inner conviction.
(my point: suppose that "I" in the phrase above is "US DoJ" - the ones that issued the request for arrest)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:53AM
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:04PM (2 children)
LOL, while you were watching for someone to step forward, all the rest of us took five steps back. It's just you on the front line now.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:11PM (1 child)
Careful with that step back, at the rate you'll be asked to volunteer and without that wall, you may end up in Mexico (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:09PM
Karma is a bitch :D
at least that is what those LoL incels keep saying
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:07AM (3 children)
But you have a leverage. Confiscate all Chinese bought properties in Hongcouver.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @04:57AM (2 children)
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:57AM
Invalid form key: 0jk1zvN0AZ
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:22PM
None of the factories in China (unless some are currently foreign owned after the changes to corporate ownership they implemented or discussed recently came to pass) were more than 49 percent foreign owned, meaning they wouldn't be taking anything a foreigner actually properly owned, and with 51 percent voting rights most corporate takeovers or oustings are possible.
Having said that, forcing reciprocal agreements with China should be mandatory and retroactive. If china only allows 49 percent foreign ownership, then force chinese citizens with assets in Canada/America/EU to follow the same disadvantageous rules there. By doing so, and putting Chinese elites on insecure financial footing, you will see a lot more of them either running back to china, or pushing for reforms to help China better acclimate itself into the international ownership structure, thus making it a larger part of the globalized economy.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:48AM (16 children)
Let's look at it in context:
In other words, because we have a country which is ruled by power rather than law, we need to compromise rule of law with an ample helping of "discretion" (which would not be necessary at all, if the target didn't have substantial economic and political muscle) and avoid a conflict which already exists - the rule of power in China versus the rule of law in the developed world. The cognitive dissonance of this cowardice is interesting.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @07:13AM (3 children)
People are afraid of a nuclear war, which is the end result of any war between nuclear powers. That is called being smart not coward. The truth of the matter is that there are a large number of people who are living in incredibly gifted lands but they are being slowly decimated because they are not industrious. I am talking about colonialism, of course. This is how West rose. China has taken it to the next level where the Chinese are willing to make self-sacrifices to in the competition to become industrious, and the West isn't.
In related news, an American decided to contact a tribe in Indian ocean which is banned activity by Indian government. Wonder what would have happened if the tribe hadn't killed him and instead he got arrested.
In yet another news, an American citizen shot dead a Pakistani citizen on the open road but couldn't be arrested due to USA's clout.
In yet another news, Osama was killed without authorization from Pakistan.
The "discretion" already exists - you don't have rule of law. The question is, do you think sacrificing what makes West great is cowardice?
It is almost as if looking into the future and seeing white terrorists wandering around the nuclear desert of America planning to bring down the Chinese infidel and restore Western values.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @02:53PM (2 children)
The key word is "afraid". And there were plenty of wars between the US and USSR, fought by proxy powers, that didn't end in nuclear war. Not saying it's a great idea, but just noting that even in worst case, the fear is overblown.
And those people would be?
China has to in order to survive. But as they get wealthier, they'll get less interested in self-sacrifice.
In other words, his status as "American" didn't protect him from the laws of the locals. Meanwhile, if he had been arrested by India, he likely would have been appropriately punished. Nor is this "related news".
Found the story [eurasiareview.com] (which notes that the victims came up on the American in a typical attack approach). Meanwhile a number of Americans have been murdered, kidnapped, etc with similar lack of consequence (here [cbsnews.com], here [cbsnews.com], here [dailymail.co.uk], and here [wikipedia.org]. Maybe this supposed immunity of Americans is just due to Pakistan not enforcing well its laws on murder than the nationality of the murderer?
Stupid thing to say. Was the attempt to capture/kill Hitler by the Soviets authorized by the German government? Why would the US wait for authorization before killing a military target protected by the host country? Here, there's evidence that bin Laden was protected by Pakistani intelligence (working with the local tribes allied with Al Qaeda) which has often worked at cross-purposes with the rest of the Pakistani government. So not telling Pakistan means not telling the people protecting bin Laden. It's standard intelligence 101 - don't tell your foes what you are about to do. That's quite legal, you know.
Uh huh. Pakistan's problems with rule of law is not a US problem.
One can dream, amirite? I wonder why people imagining all these bad things, seem so hopeful about it?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:30PM (1 child)
Reading is hard, I know. Why read or use brain when you can start an argument like a retard.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:53PM
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:13AM (3 children)
Nobody accuse Canuckistan for their "principles".
Also, Air Canada is garbage.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:23AM
*Nobody accuse Canuckistan for their "principles".*
Now try typing a real sentence.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:30PM (1 child)
I flew AC not long ago, and being that it is a Canadian national company, they have to make all the announcements in English and French.
The pilot completely butchered the French announcements with a broad Canadian English accent and apparently trying to read from a provided French script.
I thought all Canucks had to learn both French and English in school.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @11:19PM
Haha, a common misconception. Canadians are required one alternate language to their native French or English, the 2nd language requirement is Moose [wikipedia.org].
I think we've got it much easier here in the US, only one extra language requirement in most states and the only PERL interaction is with old farts who clutch them so hard no one else needs to worry.
(Score: 2) by shortscreen on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:33AM (5 children)
Rule of law works well when legislators mind their own jurisdiction and take their jobs seriously. The US fails on both counts.
US sanctions are mostly a childish attempt to harm political enemies. It's the same as bible-belt states passing arbitrary restrictions on abortion clinics. They haven't been able to ban them but they still want to make things difficult for the dirty fornicators and abortion doctors so they pass some BS laws out of spite, with no pretense of serving order or justice. (Or for another example, see CA's recent boardroom gender law that they passed "to send a message")
Besides, the US shouldn't be crying "rule of law" to anyone unless they are ready to round up their own war criminals for extradition.
(Score: 2, Disagree) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @02:30PM (4 children)
Political enemies who have been trying to get nuclear weapons and have a long history of bad behavior. The analogy breaks down at this point.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @06:27PM (3 children)
"Hey, what makes you think you should be trying to get weapons to counter our constant threats?"
"bad behavior" is pretty cute, coming from Americans talking about Iran.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @09:52PM (2 children)
It's certainly not the many years of economic sanctions.
Remember the Shah of Iran was sandwiched between two other shitty governments. US can't take the blame for it all.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:40PM (1 child)
>> "Hey, what makes you think you should be trying to get weapons to counter our constant threats?"
> It's certainly not the many years of economic sanctions.
Imagine swapping places, with Iran teaming up with the neighbors to punish the US for refusing to drop its silly non-religious constitution and stop its support for Israel, supporting groups in Canada trying to overthrow the US government, and having a history of having successfully burnt the white house.
I can hear our 2nd amendment supporters rubbing their guns.
>> "bad behavior" is pretty cute, coming from Americans talking about Iran.
> Remember the Shah of Iran was sandwiched between two other shitty governments. US can't take the blame for it all.
"sandwiched" is an interesting way of putting it.
What would the current government of highly-educated briefly-democratic Iran currently be, if the US hasn't gotten involved ?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @10:53PM
You don't get why Iran suddenly had troubles with the neighbors? They stole a bunch of oil infrastructure in the first place.
It'd probably look much the same. The biggest potential difference would be whether it was a territory of Iraq or the USSR.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 12 2018, @12:05PM (1 child)
Well, only those laws where you try to tell other sovereign countries what they can and cannot do. China isn't going to give a shit about laws that are only applied domestically.
So tell me, why the hell should the USA have the right to tell China and Iran that they cannot trade?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday December 12 2018, @03:04PM
The US doesn't. China and Iran already trade. What the US does is mandates that US businesses can't be involved in such trade. Here, the problem is that there was fraud. Rather than use non-US banks not subject to US law, Meng Wanzhou committed fraud in order to get a US bank to work directly and illegally with a business engaged in trade with Iran.
And Chinese government is notorious for on-the-fly decisions about what is legal or illegal, often dependent on what they can take at the time.