SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
The Raspberry Pi Foundation has announced a new Raspberry Pi 4 model with 8 GB of RAM:
Now, the Raspberry Pi Foundation has upped the ante by releasing a Raspberry Pi 4 B with a generous 8GB of RAM. Launching today for $75, the Raspberry Pi 4 B (8GB) is identical to other Raspberry Pi 4 B models in every way, except for its RAM capacity. So what do you do with all that memory, and is spending $20 more than the price of the $55 4GB model worth it?
The short answer is that, right now, the 8GB capacity makes the most sense for users with very specialized needs: running data-intensive server loads or using virtual machines. As our tests show, it's pretty difficult to use more than 4GB of RAM on Raspberry Pi, even if you're a heavy multitasker.
A beta version of a 64-bit Raspbian OS, which is being renamed to "Raspberry Pi OS", is available. The existing 32-bit Raspbian can use all the RAM, but with a limit of up to 3 GB per process.
Some changes have been made to the board:
The back of the board adds silkscreen for certifications, as well as existing modifications for Raspberry Pi 4 Rev 1.2 to avoid damaging the board when inserting a MicroSD card. But the top of the board has more modification around the USB-C port, USB Type-A ports, and a chip between the VLI PCIe to USB chip and AV jack is just gone. So it's possible further USB-C issues have been fixed, and some improvements have been made to USB host ports maybe with regards to powering up external hard drives.
[Update from Eben Upton about hardware changes:
These are the regulator changes I mention in the post. The disappeared chip near the USB connector is the old regulator. The new stuff near the USB-C is the new regulator. The input clamp component has moved across to the USB area to make room.
Several iterations of the Raspberry Pi 4's firmware have reduced power consumption and heat. A beta-level firmware update from earlier in the week added USB boot support.
Also at TechCrunch, The Verge, Notebookcheck, Ars Technica, and ZDNet.
Previously: Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Launched
Raspberry Pi 4B CPU Overclocked to 2.147 GHz, GPU at 750 MHz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Begins Working on Vulkan Driver
2 GB Model of Raspberry Pi 4 Gets Permanent Price Cut to $35
Raspberry Pi to Power Ventilators as Demand for Boards Surges
Raspberry Pi Launches Camera With Interchangeable Lens System for $50
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 29 2020, @12:22PM (9 children)
More interesting to me: there are new 32-bit Raspbian Busters released on 5-27. Anyone know if anything significant changed since the last release (in February 2020, I think)?
Of course I can make up applications that use more than 4GB in a heartbeat, but I'd much rather hear about more/better heat reduction in the 4GB model. Anything I do that would use even close to 4GB of RAM also tends to make the Pi hotter than it should be.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @02:31PM (3 children)
Nothing on these release notes [raspberrypi.org].
Power consumption and heat have steadily dropped over the course of several updates:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/thermal-testing-raspberry-pi-4/ [raspberrypi.org]
https://www.raspberrypi.org/app/uploads/2019/11/Raspberry-Pi-4-Power-Draw-6.png [raspberrypi.org]
Now it's almost, but not quite, back down to where 3B+ is. So I have it passively cooled (except I cheat by pointing a desk fan at it) and overclocked.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 29 2020, @05:51PM (2 children)
I've been running my 4s with the lid off their cases, mounted vertically for convection - and that's been enough, even before the updates.
I did buy one of those clear cases with a tiny fan - what a mistake, nasty horrible buzzy little thing.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @06:15PM (1 child)
By passively cooled, I meant a FLIRC case [flirc.tv] that acts as a heatsink. Works great by default, but lowers temperature further with a ceiling or desk fan on.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Friday May 29 2020, @06:36PM
Very pretty.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @10:26PM (4 children)
Here, they wrote it up: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/latest-raspberry-pi-os-update-may-2020/ [raspberrypi.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday May 30 2020, @12:04AM (3 children)
The audio changes caused a LOT of problems very quickly. Maybe avoid updating for now.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Saturday May 30 2020, @03:29AM (2 children)
I've been having problems with the February release and getting Bluetooth audio to work with a car adapter, I'm hopeful that they kick it hard enough to correct that issue.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday June 01 2020, @12:06AM (1 child)
The ALSA changes they made disable analog output for me, and the "fixed" [raspberrypi.org] asoundrc file makes analog output work but disables HDMI output.
Then I got an unrelated crash related to video playback, which is "thankfully" widely reported: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=275489 [raspberrypi.org]
Maybe your Bluetooth audio situation has to do with ALSA, maybe not.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday June 01 2020, @01:44AM
I'm still hoping for the "just works" result to fall out - it does "just work" on Ubuntu desktop, but something about Raspbian February 2020 Buster (and earlier versions) allows my Bluetooth device to connect, but doesn't route my ALSA audio output to it.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday May 29 2020, @01:34PM (7 children)
This is the $64,000 question here: 8GiB seems to be the minimum for a decent browsing session these days, but the Pi's CPU is still pretty anemic. What, exactly, would someone *do* with all that memory? I could see using this for a cheap personal desktop PC, but ironically, this model may be *less* well-suited to the tinkering/appliance crowd than the cheaper ones...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Interesting) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @02:27PM
Memory usage is higher than it appears, because the memory is used for caching. Which is exactly what you want to happen since LPDDR4 is much faster than a microSD or attached drive.
The browser can use as much memory as you allow it to. Some tabs (like a YouTube page) will use around 100 MB. Every Chromium tab gets its own process so you don't even have to update to a 64-bit OS (although Ubuntu and other 64-bit builds are available).
Last week I torrented about 2 GB of files and seeded them for a while, with no other applications open. Deluge kept the pieces in cache.
Other things that could benefit: compiling software, using large machine learning datasets (possibly with the new camera [soylentnews.org] they released), virtualization, running a server, NAS, or router, software-defined radio, video editing, image editing (GIMP). Or doing more of those things at the same time.
What doesn't need more memory? Emulating old games (RetroPie) or using it as a media player (LibreELEC). 2 GB is probably preferred over deprecated 1 GB.
Pricing is what I predicted it would be [soylentnews.org]. If you are using it constantly as a desktop computer, it's a worthwhile upgrade. If you are using multiple units for projects that definitely don't need the RAM, don't bother until an RPi5 comes out, perhaps in 2 years.
Because many laptops are now using soldered memory, it is rare to be able to find 8 GB that cheap. It has been segmented so that you may have to spend $200-$300 before you can even find 8 GB, and you can't upgrade yourself. Maybe RPi will help drive prices down or capacities up as it shifts millions of units with more RAM than devices four times as expensive. At the very least, it will have an effect on the SBC market.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 1) by petecox on Friday May 29 2020, @02:59PM
Anaemic, perhaps, but they're not chasing the same high end that Snapdragon and Apple Ax occupy. We live in an era of 12GB phones and I couldn't conceive needing that much RAM for a 'toy OS'.
And yet rpi 4 is a tenth of the price and running 'proper' GNU/Linux capable of driving dual 4K displays.
For the tinkerers there's still the 2GB model...
(Score: 3, Interesting) by DannyB on Friday May 29 2020, @05:02PM (1 child)
You can run Java applications. Maybe.
<no-sarcasm>
Actually I was running Java and Jetty server on the original Pi with 512 MB and a far more anemic processor. For certain definitions of "run".
I have run small compiled Java JAR files that I wrote myself to control long strings of LED 8x8 matrix displays driven by MAX 7219 chips. That was lots of fun. Used multiple threads. The first MAX 7219 was driven from the SPI just slightly out of spec from the data sheet. That was strictly for personal amusement. I did this when Pi 3's were available. I just used my old ancient Pi because if I were to release the magic black smoke, I didn't want it to be on a new Pi. I was surprised how well it worked. No GUI was needed on the Pi. Eclipse could run an Ant script that SSH in, transfer the JAR, then execute the command to run it. So edit-compile-debug cycle was fast enough.
</no-sarcasm>
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @09:53PM
With 8GB, you might be able to compile clang/qt/gcc/boost etc on it using all threads. Compiling projects that aren't giant clusters already worked just fine.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @10:22PM
How many pr0n tabs do you need opened at the same time anyway?
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 30 2020, @05:15AM (1 child)
Well, I developed and still run an industrial automation controller on a pi.
Started on the pi 2b (512mb ram) and now on a 3b+.
Some idiot plugged a high current draw USB device into it (probably a phone for charging). Otherwise still be on a 2b.
Also the automation controller is written in house in java.
It runs for months at a time, only down time is power interruptions.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday June 01 2020, @03:52PM
Yep, me too. Java on a 512 MB Pi with anemic processor. Controlling GPIO pins in a complex way. Described elsewhere in this topic.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 1) by petecox on Friday May 29 2020, @01:40PM (4 children)
for the things you'd normally do on an x86-64 machine that consume more than 4GB. Duh.
(Score: 1) by DECbot on Friday May 29 2020, @03:00PM (3 children)
As far as I know, there's not an arm port for Far Cry yet.
Joking aside, is the new pi able to run the java version of Minecraft well enough that I could give it to the kids without them complaining about the performance?
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @03:44PM (2 children)
Raspbian comes with a neutered version of Minecraft. Not sure about real versions.
It looks like it could work [youtube.com]. Probably better if you make sure with someone who plays it, and give the RPi4 the full overclock treatment with active cooling.
I just remembered that Nintendo Switch only has 4 GB of LPDDR4. lolwat
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 29 2020, @10:08PM (1 child)
There is also Minetest. https://www.minetest.net/ [minetest.net] http://www.ocsmag.com/2016/04/04/mining-for-education/ [ocsmag.com]
It works with Pi3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWli4-LIwQo [youtube.com] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHUZd_eH01Q [youtube.com]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 31 2020, @12:10AM
But the more mods and more block types you have the better cached and performant it will be. The VC4 GPU in it was pretty anemic. And I say that having run minetest on a genuine Radeon 9800 128M. That ran at around 15-30 fps if you kept the draw distance reined in, or 5-1fps if you didn't. But that should give you some idea of how well minetest scales on the hardware front. The server itself is pretty low requirements unless you add lots of big mods running behind the scenes logic, or need faster block generation (it only generates new blocks as someone moved within range, which is usually 4 blocks in any direction, makes the first run towards a mountain rather empty until you get close enough to generate it! Some of these defaults may have changed, and the game allowed generating much further out, although the block generation algorithm wasn't always the best (generating ones further away for you first rather than the closest.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by aim on Friday May 29 2020, @03:17PM
I have an older planetary camera (ZWO ASI 120MC) around that's not supported in Win10 any more (unlike Win7), while my toolchain is all in Windows 10 now (as I couldn't get it all running on Linux). The cam came with a lens affording a 150° fisheye view of most of the sky.
I recently tested Thomas Jacquin's allsky project [github.com] with my original 256MB Pi B and the 512MB rev. 2 Pi B. Let's say, for the intended purpose, those original Pi are massively underpowered - building the timelapse videos almost takes more than the timespan they cover.
I've just yesterday ordered a 4GB Pi 4 B, which should handle building the timelapse videos in useful time - both thanks to the improved CPU as well as the available RAM. Networking via WLAN is built in, so no need to fiddle with an usb dongle. I also hope the generally better performance will reduce the "split frames" I got from the ASI 120MC, but that may be a ZWO SDK issue. I sort of doubt the 8GB could much improve on the 4GB model for this project.
Hopefully, I'll be able to deploy that allsky cam soon.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday May 29 2020, @05:04PM
Yeah, right.
When trying to solve a problem don't ask who suffers from the problem, ask who profits from the problem.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday May 29 2020, @06:10PM
Confirmed as coming this year:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/8gb-raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-at-75/#comment-1530426 [raspberrypi.org]
Update of the RPi Zero seems likely eventually. Personally I think they should wait until as late as 2024-2025 before revisiting it:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/8gb-raspberry-pi-4-on-sale-now-at-75/#comment-1530396 [raspberrypi.org]
Eben also says "More Vulkan news coming real soon now." [raspberrypi.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]