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posted by n1 on Friday August 29 2014, @08:33PM   Printer-friendly
from the but-not-with-an-uzi dept.

The accidental death of an instructor at an Arizona shooting range, killed while teaching a 9-year-old girl to fire a fully automatic Uzi, has touched off a debate among those who enjoy and teach the use of firearms: What’s the proper way to teach children about guns? The key, is training says gun instructor Butch Jensen. A gun is a tool, and like any tool — be it a circular saw or a kitchen knife — requires proper instruction. “It was clear that she was a beginner, and you don’t start a beginner in that type of firearm,” says Jensen, who watched a widely circulated video of the fatal lesson. “If you want to learn how to run Indy cars, you don’t start at Indy.” Blake Carrington, who serves in the Air Force, has taught his 10-year-old daughter to shoot a .22 rifle. “I personally would never give my child a fully automatic weapon,” says Carrington. “I feel terrible for that little girl having to live with that.”

Shooting instructors said in interviews that in some cases, a 9-year-old may be able to handle an Uzi, even though it has a tricky recoil and can fire hundreds of rounds per minute. The child would have to weigh enough to handle the recoil and have some experience with guns. The parent and instructor would have to jointly determine that the child is mature and skilled enough to operate the firearm safely. Tom, who practiced with an M1 Garand Rifle, says he shoots for sport and to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights. “I don’t think you should keep kids away from firearms. This shouldn’t keep people from taking their kids to the range.” Still, Tom says he could not fathom why adults allowed the 9-year-old girl to shoot an Uzi. “I don’t know what they were thinking. My personal opinion is someone under 15 years of age playing with a submachine weapon is not a good idea.”

 
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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by SlimmPickens on Saturday August 30 2014, @01:47AM

    by SlimmPickens (1056) on Saturday August 30 2014, @01:47AM (#87429)

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

    I'm a firm believer in this in general, but obviously that ends somewhere. Few thinks it's OK for Syria to have a nuclear weapon, for example. Where the 'line' is depends on how responsible society is. But what's going on the USA has gone far beyond a reasonable philosophical debate. One poster above tried to tell me that I would understand if I only knew just how big the governments guns were. Fix the gun problem with guns!

    But, there is no moderation available that indicates disagreement,

    I'm pretty sure in that case they're supposed to tell me why I'm wrong, as you did, not moderate.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +2  
       Insightful=2, Total=2
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   4  
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by mhajicek on Saturday August 30 2014, @03:21AM

    by mhajicek (51) on Saturday August 30 2014, @03:21AM (#87448)

    Far beyond debate? I think that's debatable. Do us a favor and look up some statistics. What are the comparative chances of dying by gun vs. by car? Since it's many times more likely that you'll die by car in the US, you should logically be arguing against our out of control car culture.

    --
    The spacelike surfaces of time foliations can have a cusp at the surface of discontinuity. - P. Hajicek
    • (Score: 2) by arslan on Saturday August 30 2014, @04:09AM

      by arslan (3462) on Saturday August 30 2014, @04:09AM (#87457)

      False logic, you can almost always find another stat to eclipse your own. If you really want to be clear on what that stat actually means, why don't you compare the ratio of death by cars vs death by guns in a country with a ban on guns with a similar population size or some size factor and interpolate it and compare that ratio to the U.S.?

      I'm not against gun ownership in the U.S. given its history, I used to be, but having understand and heard a lot of reasons from actual level headed people with unprejudiced reasons on the matter I can see why the U.S. is unique enough to have this right.

      I do however think the government should have tighter controls though to prevent events like this, essentially controls to prevent people who do not possess the adequate mental or physical faculties to easily access firearms. What that is I really don't know, the U.S. have to work it out, but unfortunately both size of the fence is so polarized that its no where near any sort of sane objective discussion

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 30 2014, @05:15AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 30 2014, @05:15AM (#87474)

      > What are the comparative chances of dying by gun vs. by car?

      Motor vehicle traffic deaths

              Number of deaths: 33,783
              Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.8

      All firearm deaths

              Number of deaths: 32,351
              Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4

      Source: CDC FastStats [cdc.gov]

      > Since it's many times more likely that you'll die by car in the US, you should logically be arguing against our out of control car culture.

      How many car deaths are intentional?

      • (Score: 1) by richtopia on Sunday August 31 2014, @01:37AM

        by richtopia (3160) Subscriber Badge on Sunday August 31 2014, @01:37AM (#87718) Homepage Journal

        We should have stricter licensing on automobiles! Driving in other countries where people obey traffic laws and ways of the road is refreshing.

        Here are some example nations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate):

        annual deaths / 100 000 cars:
        USA 13.6
        Germany 6.9
        Finland 6.6
        Chile 5.8
        Slovenia 10.5
        Poland 17.6
        New Zealand 10.3
        Greece 13.8
        Estonia 13.1
        Czech Republic 13
        Belize 16.4

        I actually had a hard time finding comparable states to the USA, it seems that most nations are either below 10 or quite high.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 05 2014, @02:04PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 05 2014, @02:04PM (#89822)

        incorrect..,,dont use "fast stats" if you want people to actually know truth or have an actual discussion....im sad you were modded insightful because parrits are not insightful, they just hace an agenda....even if its just to get a cracker

    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Tork on Saturday August 30 2014, @07:54AM

      by Tork (3914) on Saturday August 30 2014, @07:54AM (#87496)
      If I die by car it'll be by accident. If I die by gun, it won't be.
      --
      Slashdolt Logic: "24 year old jokes about sharks and lasers are +5, Funny." 💩
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by art guerrilla on Saturday August 30 2014, @12:05PM

      by art guerrilla (3082) on Saturday August 30 2014, @12:05PM (#87534)

      um, i'd be a teeny tiny bit more impressed by those stats, if it wasn't for the fact that a HUGE percentage of us spend a fair amount of time in our cars EVERY DAMN DAY, multiple times a day, among many hundreds/thousands doing the same... regularly handling, shooting, transporting guns on a consistent, daily schedule ? VERY few of us, what less than 1% messing with them 1% of the time... NOTHING compared to how much we use cars...
      IF we were handling guns the same amount, in the same careless manner as we drive, as many times a day, with a million other gun equipped idiots out there, do you have any doubt what the 'stats' would be ? ? ?