Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
The US is at war. That's probably not exactly news, as the country has been engaged in one type of conflict or another for most of its history. The last time we officially declared war was after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in December 1941.
Our biggest undeclared war today is not being fought by drones in the mountains of Afghanistan or even through the less-lethal barrage of threats over the nuclear programs in North Korea and Iran. In this particular war, it is the US that is under attack and on the defensive.
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Undeclared Wars in Cyberspace Are Becoming More Aggressive and Automated
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(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:06PM (28 children)
Anyone still repeating this is beyond help. Government paid internet trolls pushing political agendas seem to be all over these days though. I consider it governments ruining everything they touch like usual.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:24PM
I'd believe news from Pravda as being more trustworthy than CNN and Fox.
(Score: 4, Informative) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:31PM (24 children)
Russians penetrated U.S. voter systems, top U.S. official says [nbcnews.com]
Senate report: Russia tried to invade election systems in all 50 states [washingtonexaminer.com]
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:43PM (22 children)
America did it first..that's GOOD. Now the rest of the world is doing it to America: OMG! TERRORISTS! NK! RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/10/13/the-long-history-of-the-u-s-interfering-with-elections-elsewhere/?noredirect=on [washingtonpost.com]
Gain some perspective: the US has done some horrible things to other countries. Now they're getting paid back.
It's 'deal like an Adult' time.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2, Redundant) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:50PM
"RussiaGate" is just the democrats failure at introspection. The problem is right here at home. "Russia" is a distraction
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:27PM (1 child)
Nah no one outside of the power hungry assholes ever said it was good the US interferes in foreign politics. If anyone did say it was good they would have a very good chance of being conservative authoritarians.
We liberals have been pointing out the follies of the US and how it is wrong to blame our mistakes on others. Glad to see a conservative "getting it" even if you are Canadian.
Trump is a traitor, and so are the millions of assholes who still support him.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:07PM
Not a Conservative.....nooooooope.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:41PM (17 children)
So you're willing to let the Democracy of the most powerful nation on Earth be subverted because the US did something bad before I was even born?
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @08:09PM (1 child)
Well, yeah. "You reap what you sow". It's a common concept taught to most children from before they can read, write, or even speak.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday August 06 2019, @08:17PM
Well I didn't sow anything, some Baby Boomer did.
I see a lot of conservatives arguing they shouldn't be blamed for the slavery and systemic racism of the people who came before them.
So why does this particular sin of our forefathers get reaped but a century of torture and abuse gets swept under the rug?
(Score: 0, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @08:18PM
So, were you born yesterday?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @09:05PM (7 children)
Subverted... Just how was this Democracy subverted? Was it because a relatively minuscule $100,000 of money was used to buy some Facebook ads compared to the $768 million spent by the Clinton Campaign? Was it because public records were accessed through the Internet; because if it was I am guilty as hell too. I actually downloaded some voter records from my County. (hides head in shame) Was it because some hackers released some private emails that showed some DNC operatives were in fact, assholes?
We've heard this Chicken Little bullshit drone on since 2016 and I'm still not seeing subversion. What I do see are a lot of ass clowns that are still crying after three years that their sure bet didn't pay out. Grandpa Mueller couldn't save the conspiracy or even remember what he allegedly wrote. Jabba the Nadler looks like a nutty Don Quixote who is still smarting from that time Trump called him fat. Crazy Eyes Schiff looks like he ought to be in a Vegas magic show trying out his Trump conspiracy illusions on an audience of drunks. This worn out conspiracy is the grassy knoll of the new millennium. Why don't you work on debunking the moon landing instead. It's back in the news right now.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by edIII on Tuesday August 06 2019, @10:28PM (6 children)
There is a difference between using advertising and marketing sleaziness to sway public opinion, and actively penetrating the security around elections themselves.
To deny Russian involvement at this point indicates a neurologically defective level of partisanship and the willingness to allow the subversion because the "correct" side is currently winning. Where we should be unified in defiance against a foreign enemy, we are split down the lines through hate impenetrable by any logic, or evidence.
History will record that Russian oligarchs, alongside Russian Mobs, subverted our democracy, and utilized a deeply compromised manipulative compulsive lying hate monger to destroy America from within in the tragic comedy of fools it had become.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @02:21AM
Doubling down on that rhetoric I see.
I have yet to see a single credible report that the Russians, or any other foreign group, altered actual votes.
They possibly1 released some damaging emails, which may have swayed voters - Would you rather your citizens were kept ignorant?
Nobody denies that the emails were real, it is always that the DNC had the right to keep their shit hidden.
They spent approx $100,000 on faecebook ads. Must have been the most cost effective ad campaign in history2, it outperformed the DNC's more than $700,000,000
Are you talking about the leftist hate for your duly elected President, Mr. Trump?
----
1. It might have been the Russians, or it might have been Seth Rich.
2. For the math challenged, that's more than 7000 times as effective.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @02:50AM (4 children)
You make important sounding sweeping generalizations and yet admit the obvious.
Then you make scary sounding bullet points with no actual accusals or supporting information for any making the vote itself on behalf of the citizen which is the definition of interference. I'm sorry, market sleaziness is the hallmark of campaigning since the SCOTUS decision of Citizen's United. CNN spends 24 hours a day electioneering for the DNC. Late night TV too. They don't even try to hide it or deny it. Google attempts to sway public opinion as well according to their own current and former employees. The Facebook ad buy is a total red herring.
Okay... Let me see evidence or results of this actual attack. Were voter rolls altered? Were vote totals changed? No?
Then it's whining from losers. If you want to shore up voting processes, I'm all for it. Get the fucking machines off the Internet. Use a goddamn paper ballot. Require IDs at the polls like my state does. Pass an amendment if we have to, and stop the moneyed from buying elections. For God's sake, Hillary spent nearly three quarters of a billion dollars and still lost. Fix shit. States run their own election apparatus and need to step up. Jumping up and down about tax returns is ignoring the important stuff.
Every time I hear some asshole say Putin handed Trump the election, I know it's all hand waving from some butthurt Democrat. Every time I hear Hillary won by three million votes, I know it's bullshit from some asshole who doesn't care that you don't get to change the rules after the game has been played. Every time I hear impeach Trump from some idiot who can't articulate exactly why he should be impeached other than "He's a racist" or "He's a white supremacist" or "Trump tweeted something I don't like" I know I am dealing with an infantile retard ruled by emotions and groupthink.
If you want to see your "stupid, foolish, and gullible" voters, you need to look no farther than Baltimore. When four mayors in a row leave under a cloud of corruption, theft and incompetence you need to look a lot closer at the people who voted for them solely because they had a "D" after their name. Unfortunately, that upsets the agenda that the media wants to present about foolish Trump supporters.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday August 07 2019, @09:51PM (3 children)
You suffer from the same mental delusions I outlined. Evidence of the results of the attack? The people that get to see that are Senators, and the people providing the evidence is the U.S intelligence community.
It's a pathetic and weak dodge to claim liberal butthurt, when what we are talking about are FACTS. It is a FACT that the U.S intelligence community has found evidence that Russia interfered with, or attempted to interfere, with elections in all 50 states. They wouldn't state this without evidence, and the people attempting to debase and discredit the U.S Intelligence community always seem to happen to be Republican. Almost as if it were partisan bullshit....
Continue disputing facts while America falls to its enemies.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 08 2019, @12:07AM (1 child)
Nice bootlicking attitude there. You don't need to see any evidence because your betters have told you what to believe. Next you'll be touching your cap and saying "yes m'lud" every time one of them gives you an order.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Thursday August 08 2019, @06:12AM
Nice try.
On the balance of all the evidence, what reasons do I have to outright disbelieve statements from the U.S Intelligence Community? Why would the CIA, NSA, whatever lie about this?
Whatever reasons you have to distrust them, aren't nearly as rational or numerous as the reasons to trust them. What logic and wisdom is present when you ignore their warnings?
Respond with that. Actual constructive reasons, not QAnon-blah-blah-bullshit, but some positions that could survive a few moments of scrutiny by anybody with a few brain cells.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 08 2019, @04:32AM
In other words: No evidence of success in changing one single vote. And only anecdotes and speculation of success of changing one mind. In point of fact even CNN admits it.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/02/politics/democrats-russian-hacking-intelligence/ [cnn.com]
All the bullshit about Russians changing the election is based on tortured logic that somehow people would have voted for Hillary if those Wascally Wussians would have not bought some Facebook ads.
The Intelligence community as you call it has worked hard to discredit itself. Have you read the texts between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page? Did you know Andrew McCabe was fired for lying to the FBI while working for the FBI? Did you not see the train wreck Bob Mueller testimony to Congress? Have you not heard Clapper spew his hate as a paid CNN national security analyst? Democrats wanted Comey's head on a pike for reopening the email investigation. When Trump fired him, he suddenly became St. Comey the Honorable. Open your eyes and ears.
Perhaps the reason is because the "intelligence community" was as unhappy with the results of the election that Silly Valley, CNN, MSNBC and other special interests were.
The part that makes me most angry is the sheer unmitigated arrogance of the Democrat apologists. The push the theory that the only explanation for why someone would vote for Trump is that there are so stupid as to be swayed by a few ads on social media. You know, those halfwits that don't live on the East and West coasts. I can tell you now that that arrogance is exactly why I voted AGAINST Clinton. I would have voted for anyone but her. Remember the slogan? She exuded pure arrogance and contempt toward the worthless peons so much beneath her which she barely tolerated every time she opened her mouth. And she chuckled all the while she did it.
This is the same contempt I see here and Slashdot and Arstechnica. I will never vote for anyone who holds me and the rest of hardworking Americans who live in flyover country in such contempt.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 06 2019, @09:51PM (3 children)
"And, in recent years, they have also bristled at perceived U.S. meddling in the politics of countries on Russia's borders, most notably in Ukraine.
--2014
--https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26068994
"and the violent toppling of socialist Chilean President Salvador Allende, whose government was swept aside in 1973 by a military coup led by the ruthless Gen. Augusto Pinochet."
--1973
"Aside from its instigation of coups and alliances with right-wing juntas, Washington sought to more subtly influence elections in all corners of the world. And so did Moscow. Political scientist Dov Levin calculates that the “two powers intervened in 117 elections around the world from 1946 to 2000 — an average of once in every nine competitive elections.”
--Emphasis mine: 2000
"When it couldn't defeat Allende at the ballot box in 1970, Washington decided to remove him anyway."
--1970
""So you're willing to let the Democracy of the most powerful nation on Earth be subverted because the US did something bad before I was even born?""
Are you saying you're willing to let ANY (so-called) Democracy or any other type of government fuck things up for other people just because their idiots. Why should the US get a pass?
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @10:14PM (2 children)
One good reason is that possibly we would be able to get the country back on track and make such foreign meddling a thing of the past. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the real anger isn't aimed at Russia. It is at the traitorous GOP that has been welcoming the dirty money.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @02:24AM
If you have a puppy that pisses on the carpet, and you praise it and give it a treat, it is going to piss on the carpet again.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday August 08 2019, @03:32PM
LMAO - Uranium One?
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @02:37AM
Are you a baby or something?
Most recent public intervention, Venezuela.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @11:41AM
Unless you are still in your mothers womb, Guantanamo bay is still open today and actively used. It is a torture facility run by the US gov. This is not even a far away hidden thing that nobody knows about, ALL Americans of voting age know guantanamo bay and that people are getting tortured there, right NOW.
If you truly are a democracy than this means that more than 50% of Americans want the US to torture people. (As a European, I don't consider the US to be a 'true' democratic nation, to few parties for that to work)
Since you didn't get the memo; the US IS the bad actor.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @02:33AM
Oh, I'm missing the times when 'grow a pair' was the usual.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:30PM
Whoever put those voting systems online is to blame.
And did you read that report: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume1.pdf [senate.gov]
An ip address in russia connected to a bunch of government computers... along with a redacted number of other suspect ip addresses unrelated to russia.
The entire argument amounts to "russian ip addresses were used". Why wouldn't the russian government simply perform these attacks from servers outside of russia? It literally makes no sense.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday August 06 2019, @07:32PM (1 child)
Are you saying that one set of government paid internet trolls don't exist, while another set of government paid internet trolls are blaming things on the first set?
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. [youtube.com]
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @07:43PM
I love this type of response where the person creates a strawman and then insults it... Literally arguing with yourself again I see.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:32PM
There's only one war and it the aggressors are the rich, as it always is. The details are irrelevant whack-a-mole-ery - a divide and conquer strategy - and most of the press encourages it.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:32PM (4 children)
Ihe united states pulls back all of its imperial forces from other countries and stops spying on the entire internet, I think it is safe to say the internet is going to be a dark forest full of danger.
The point of view of articles like this is 'oh widdle ole united states miwitary' is being threatened by big scary monsters.
I have no use for media that is incapable of clearly stating without equivocation who the aggressor is in a situation.
At this point there is probably no kind and gentle development for the united states military that would bring peace, but I was there at the beginning thinking, 'maybe some treaties would be appropriate to prevent a situation where we sit on other sides of an ocean and fire ten trillion LOIC's at each other until the entire internet breaks.'
I strongly suspect that if the united states military would start defending instead of offending, most of these issues would be resolved. But for some reason they never get that memo and attack everyone who says this like an actual virus.
Fact of the matter is if it's all of the farmboys from texas who can sit through a semester of cisco training vs all of the tweakers in eastern europe, smart money is not on the farmboys, no matter how large their army of consultants may be.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Tuesday August 06 2019, @04:42PM (1 child)
Ihe united states pulls back all of its imperial forces from other countries...
:-) Whose Imperial Forces® do you prefer?
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by jmichaelhudsondotnet on Thursday August 08 2019, @09:12AM
If israel wants to attack iran then they should surround iran with israeli bases, not manipulate congress and cnn in my country to trick us into being their meatshield.
basically though, the further you are away from your own country the less bases you should have there and if everyone followed this we would be in much better shape.
It is very dangerous to mess around with the definitions of words like 'offense' and 'defense'. No american would believe iranians were defending iran from their base in mexico which is essentially what the united states does 24/7 to dozens of countries and if you are not vocal about your opposition like I am, your life work essentially feeds what they are doing.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:05PM
Everybody is spying on everybody. All the insiders know that, but publicly they just blame other countries.
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Tuesday August 06 2019, @07:47PM
You are too optimistic. In every country there are those who will take any path that they see to power. Being innocent yourself would not be any protection.
Those who say Russia (Putin) didn't take this path to power at this time are blind and foolish, but it wasn't because the US did it first, it was because it was made an easy path to power. (That said, I acknowledge that the US did it first [for some meanings of "it"]. It's just irrelevant.)
OTOH, there is reasonable evidence (not proof) that the reasons the systems were so hackable was to facilitate internal corruption. I suppose it *could* have been stupidity. I remember arguing with a company lawyer that we shouldn't agree to a MS contract, and his response was "I'd like to see them take that to court!", ignoring the fact that they intended to use that contract as a shield, rather than as a sword, and the sword was their technical access. So it *could* be stupidity.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:02PM (1 child)
It's best to not show your hand until there is a real conflict. If you keep switching on your bag of tricks out of habit, then you don't have enough "ammunition" during the real deal. I suspect most attacks on the US are coming from nations with smaller militaries that have have no chance in a real war, so they opt for constant agitation instead.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:24PM
> It's best to not show your hand until there is a real conflict.
I believe the US fights regular small-scale wars to keep its army trim. I wonder if that applies to the intrawebs.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 06 2019, @05:06PM (2 children)
A fair number of us have been harping on the idiocy or leaving ourselves vulnerable to the web. But, nooooo, we've got to hook up all of our infrastructure to the dubyadubyadubya because it's CHEAP!! Now, cry me a river. Better yet, just fuck off and die. This is a war we deserve to lose.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday August 06 2019, @11:21PM (1 child)
No. This is like Pearl Harbor. It caught us unprepared/unawares, but we rebound and do what is needed to secure ourselves.
No backdoor encryption, liabilities for coding applied all the way up to the CEOs, and government organizations that actually help us secure our infrastructure. Government could do something useful, like host military secured software repos where all the libraries and programs are openly vetted, and can be authenticated. A software peer review program that would be akin to expensive pen testing for every algorithm, codec, process.
All so that I can have easily available tools, that I can trust, that allow me to build things and compete in the future cyberspace.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 07 2019, @01:17AM
You'd have to be pretty ignorant to be caught unprepared/unawares by this threat.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Gaaark on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:13PM (2 children)
that NK was beating the US at cyberwarfare and was getting their money from attacking US banks and corporations.
One, why are US banks and corporations so poorly protected
Two, are they really that much better than American cyberwarriors?
Really?
One: answer is probably got something to do with MS operating systems and "gotta make another dollar by saving on security...OMG we were hacked again? That's unpossible! Fire our cyber security guy and out-source his job."
Two: i'm guessing no, but you gotta rally the troops somehow.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:54PM (1 child)
1: Windows
2: Windows
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @11:08PM
12: Windows... er Monkeys.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @06:53PM
let's get this straight:
Cyberwar is war on bug-free software also know as ACTIVE SABOTAGE!
there's nothing "war-ish" about this.
it's plain sabotage. bugs in code/programs are kept secret.
this is what is meant by "weaponizing".
crackers have been doing it for ages.
governments doing it are evil. it's next to bombing civilians without the body-count.
also one could argue that proposed IOT schemes are loaded weapons and loaded weapons are a requirement for war?
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 06 2019, @09:13PM
Auitomated hack/attack will go out of control, with or without intent, just like program trading blow up exchanges. Even the perps may not know how it happened.