Wired reports that Tesla may soon have batteries with a one million mile lifespan.
From his hideout in a hollowed out volcano last April, Elon Musk promised us (3:10:00)
that Tesla would soon be able to power its electric cars for more than 1 million miles over the course of their lifespan. At the time, the claim seemed a bit much. That's more than double the mileage Tesla owners can expect to get out of their car's current battery packs, which are already well beyond the operational range of most other EV batteries. It just didn't seem real—except now it appears that it is.
Tesla affiliated battery researchers this month described in The Journal of the Electrochemical Society a moderate-energy-density Lithium-Ion Cell chemistry that "should be able to power an electric vehicle for over 1.6 million kilometers (1 million miles) and last at least two decades in grid energy storage."
Led by physicist Jeff Dahn, one of the world's foremost lithium-ion researchers, the Dalhousie group showed that its battery significantly outperforms any similar lithium-ion battery previously reported. They noted their battery could be especially useful for self-driving robotaxis and long-haul electric trucks, two products Tesla is developing.
In a significant break from the usual, complete details on the cells, including "electrode compositions, electrode loadings, electrolyte compositions, additives used, etc." were provided by the researchers "so that others can recreate these cells and use them as benchmarks for their own R+D efforts."
The team's results show that their batteries could be charged and depleted more than 4,000 times and lose only about 10 percent of their energy capacity. For the sake of comparison, a paper from 2014 showed that similar lithium-ion batteries lost half their capacity after only 1,000 cycles.
Side Note - Tesla, Musk, and the researchers have neither confirmed nor denied that the upcoming one million mile battery packs touted by Musk last year are the same as the paper describes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @08:33AM (6 children)
That's 20 years at 50,000 miles per year, quadruple the pace of the average driver. Or 2+ decades for grid storage.
A superior cheap and dense replacement battery should be available within 10-20 years of purchase. If there is a price premium for these new batteries, it might not be worth it.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:23PM (4 children)
It's also 5 years at 200,000 miles per year. Plenty of vehicles see that level of usage.
Because?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:50PM
Moore's Law!
The server will be down for replacement of vacuum tubes, belts, worn parts and lubrication of gears and bearings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @06:44PM (2 children)
> It's also 5 years at 200,000 miles per year. Plenty of vehicles see that level of usage.
True, but not luxury vehicles like the current Tesla offerings. After 200K miles of usage, a fancy car is going to be pretty scungy and ready for a new interior, to be acceptable to most users.
Just to fill in some more numbers, that is 550 miles/day -- pretty hard to do that at urban speeds (22 hours averaging 25 mph, only 2 hours for charging, which may not be enough), so you are talking long haul trucks.
ICE long haul trucks (with more than one driver) will be able to cover more miles per day than any electric for a long time, until the charging time approaches the time to fill up a big tank with diesel fuel.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 25 2019, @03:21AM
Except for use as a taxi or as a business vehicle.
But not at highway speeds.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 25 2019, @03:29AM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by richtopia on Tuesday September 24 2019, @03:16PM
You have a very good point. I have heard in related discussions that million mile vehicles are going to be marketed towards commercial applications such as taxi services.
Between the lack of maintenance, longevity, and low fuel costs electric taxis may out-compete owning a personal ICE car. This is even before delving into the potential of autonomous taxis, which should trade large up-front cost for much lower labour costs.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @09:50AM (18 children)
My tank will last for millions of miles. Billions maybe. And even if it does get a hole, that's usually just one $5 epoxy patch.
Now do we compare engine life?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @12:24PM (8 children)
One gets to wonder what use is the tank to you when you won't be able to fill it up?
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:36PM (7 children)
When is when?
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:53PM (5 children)
At the intersection of two lines. The upward slope of the price of fuel as fossil fuels get more difficult to find, and the horizontal line of how much you can afford to spend.
An exact calendar year might be hard to pin down, but the current trend of cheap fuel does not go on forever. Certainly not for billions of miles.
The server will be down for replacement of vacuum tubes, belts, worn parts and lubrication of gears and bearings.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @03:12PM (4 children)
Don't forget the horizontal line of biofuels. I'm pretty sure that's below the horizontal line of how much you can afford to spend.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @04:53PM (3 children)
Biofuels are only available because cheap oil and mechanized farming leads to huge agricultural surpluses. It remains to be seen if we can run farms on alternative sources and still produce such huge surpluses.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @10:35PM
Ah, but excess CO2 increases the growth of plants which makes biofuels cheaper.
(Score: 2) by Username on Tuesday September 24 2019, @10:38PM
So you're saying tesla batteries will not run a tractor for 1,000,000 miles?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday September 25 2019, @02:11AM
Biofuels are another cheap oil. They're just not quite as cheap as pumping it out of the ground at present.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @10:21PM
When depends on where is that tank.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by pe1rxq on Tuesday September 24 2019, @01:05PM (1 child)
So after a few hunderd thousand miles you have a perfectly working gas tank but no engine anymore to put it to use?
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:37PM
Seems the point of bringing it up, wouldn't you think?
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @01:12PM (5 children)
Nice typo in the summary: "Lithion Cell Chemistry."
Gas tanks aren't immune to time and maintenance. Let one sit empty for a decade, and if it isn't air tight or in a dry environment, condensation will have accumulated and rusted out the bottom, giving you not just one hole, but hundreds. But if you keep it full and don't use it, then in a few years, the gas goes bad. They have to be kept in continuous use.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday September 24 2019, @02:39PM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday September 24 2019, @05:35PM (1 child)
Oh, there's no question that for energy storage, the gas tank is still superior to the battery. But, the electric motor is so much, much better than a combustion engine that batteries don't have to be half as good as a gas tank for the electric motor and battery combo to win. Maybe a battery a bit better than a tenth as good as a gas tank is enough to push the electric car ahead of the combustion car.
Over time, a battery will discharge, and corrode. Even if you never use it, a battery will go bad. But how quickly that happens depends very much on the innards. Rechargeable NiMH batteries made around 2005 might have lasted only 3 years, and discharged in only 4 to 6 weeks. Batteries from 2010 might last 8 years. Now rechargeable batteries can hold a charge for a year, and might last upwards of 20 years.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24 2019, @10:39PM
I have a couple of 4Ah NiCad D-cells that are close to 30 years old. They still work, but it would be interesting to measure their capacity.
(Score: 1) by RandomFactor on Tuesday September 24 2019, @09:15PM
Dammit, it's like a curse. Oh well, hopefully nobody notices.
В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
(Score: 2) by martyb on Wednesday September 25 2019, @10:26AM
Huh? Oh? Ohhhhh. Uh oh.
Good catch!
Fixed!
Wit is intellect, dancing. I'm too old to act my age. Life is too important to take myself seriously.
(Score: 3, Touché) by Rupert Pupnick on Tuesday September 24 2019, @01:15PM
Whatever you end up comparing, make sure it's comprehensive enough to be useful.