Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
Large ecosystems, such as the Amazon rainforest, will collapse and disappear alarmingly quickly, once a crucial tipping point is reached, according to calculations based on real-world data.
Writing in Nature Communications, researchers from Bangor University, Southampton University and The School of Oriental & African Studies, University of London, reveal the speed at which ecosystems of different sizes will disappear, once they have reached a point beyond which they collapse -- transforming into an alternative ecosystem.
For example, once the 'point of no return' is reached, the iconic Amazon rainforest could shift to a savannah-type ecosystem with a mix of trees and grass within 50 years, according to the work.
Some scientists argue that many ecosystems are currently teetering on the edge of this precipice, with the fires and destruction both in the Amazon and in Australia.
"Unfortunately, what our paper reveals is that humanity needs to prepare for changes far sooner than expected," says joint lead author Dr Simon Willcock of Bangor University's School of Natural Sciences.
"These rapid changes to the world's largest and most iconic ecosystems would impact the benefits which they provide us with, including everything from food and materials, to the oxygen and water we need for life."
-- submitted from IRC
Gregory S. Cooper, Simon Willcock & John A. Dearing. Regime shifts occur disproportionately faster in larger ecosystems. Nature Communications, 2020 DOI: 10.1038/s41467-020-15029-x
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @04:28PM (4 children)
Who cares what happens to a bunch of darkies down in beaner America?
We've got more important things to worry about. Like making sure women don't have control of their bodies and lowering taxes on the rich and big corporations.
I got my red bull, my Kentucky sourmash and my oxy-codone, and day by day we're making America great again. In fact, we're winning so much I'm actually getting sick of winning.
If things get much better, I might have to kill myself -- just like many of my compatriots have because things were so great they couldn't handle it any more!
(Score: 1) by XivLacuna on Friday March 13 2020, @08:27PM (1 child)
1) People who don't want shit to hit the fan down and then cause an even bigger exodus northward.
2) Making sure women don't sacrifice babies to Moloch for short term earthly gains is a noble cause. Enough that we'll side with politicians that'll lower taxes on the rich and big corporations. It would be nice if the people who want to tax the rich and big corporations weren't a bunch of Moloch worshipers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @11:55AM
It would also be great if people would just vote for the best policy and not because of a presupposed affiliation to $deity.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @03:10AM (1 child)
Perhaps you shouldn't post these ironic messages, seems like some dummies think that was actually a real and valid point. I guess it is for racist sociopaths :|
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 16 2020, @03:41AM
Poe's Law [wikipedia.org] is hard at work, as usual.
Where's my oxy-codone? And get off my lawn!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @04:52PM
Everybody's doin' a brand new dance now
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
I know you'll get to like it if you give it a chance now
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
My little baby sister can do it with ease
It's easier than learnin' your ABCs
So, come on, come on, and do the Loco-Motion with me
You've got to swing your hips now
Come on
Jump up
Jump back
Oh well, I think you've got the knack
Woah, woah
Now that you can do it, well let's make a chain now
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
A chuga-chuga motion like a railroad train, now
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
Do it nice and easy now, and don't lose control
A little bit of rhythm and a lot of soul
So, come on, come on, and do the Loco-Motion with me
Woah, woah
Move around the floor in a loco-motion
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
Do it holdin' hands if'n you get the notion
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
There's never been a dance that's so easy to do
It even makes you happy when you're feelin' blue
So, come on, come on, and do the Loco-Motion with me
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
So, come on, come on, and do the Loco-Motion with me
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
So, come on, come on, and do the Loco-Motion with me
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
(Come on baby, do the Loco-Motion)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @04:55PM
TLDR; penis
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @06:04PM (5 children)
> These rapid changes to the world's largest and most iconic ecosystems would impact the benefits which they provide us with, including everything from food and materials, to the oxygen and water we need for life.
The hand of free market capitalism has spoke, these are much more valuable :
Beef exports
Palm oil exports
Mining
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @06:13PM (3 children)
Are you not capable of not buying any of the products exported from the Amazon?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @03:10PM
Do you have any idea how hard it is to avoid buying products that aren't problematic in some way? Normal people do not have 40 hours a week to research the impact of what they're doing is. It's a large part of why it's so important that governments set some sort of minimum standards on things like that. The labels themselves don't always differentiate between the way things were produced in a given country.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 15 2020, @09:26AM (1 child)
are you capable of understanding that a single person's purchasing habits, even if spotless, are not enough?
some of us actually don't buy palm oil or non-local meat because of exactly this issue (also in NZ for sheep, S.Am for several products, all sources of nonessential products which are costly in petroleum to make, and it'd be great if another Coltran source were found, etc)
and it's pretty clear to us that the world isn't magically following suit and acting sanely.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 15 2020, @03:41PM
Speaking of understanding and acting sanely, go on boycotting palm oil to save the Amazon forest if you want to act insane or ignorant.
Because the facts are for the Amazon forest it's more like soybean oil instead of palm oil [1].
Somehow we hear fewer calls to boycott soybean oil to save the Amazon and its cute critters for some reason... Like maybe the US needs to sell soybean oil and it can't sell it as easily due to the trade war with China?
[1] https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?country=br&commodity=soybean-oil&graph=exports [indexmundi.com]
https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?country=br&commodity=palm-oil&graph=exports [indexmundi.com]
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @03:04PM
Thank God the Democrats are being really smart and rigging the primary in favor of Biden. Because it's so much more important that we prevent the voters from getting a candidate that might do something about the climate than risk having to allow all those voters to get medicare for all and free college.
Better not risk it, we'll just let the next few generations worry about it, we've got ours, so the hell with them for making the poor decision to be born now rather than what those really smart Boomers did, being born when times were good.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Friday March 13 2020, @06:12PM (3 children)
Rainforests are not constant. The Amazon has changed over time [wikipedia.org]:
There is also evidence that the Amazonian basin was much more densely populated (and therefore deforested) in the past than now:
Evidence of prior deforestation and widespread human habitation has been found in geoglyphs (like the Nazca Lines) that would have been created in earlier periods of deforestation, and also:
The Wikipedia article linked above shows pictures of those.
Additional [businessinsider.com] articles [newscientist.com] point up that the Amazon is not a pristine rainforest, but rather:
Yes, let's do a better job of conserving our natural resources, but let's stop repeating myths for political reasons when scientific evidence has revealed a different picture.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 13 2020, @07:10PM (2 children)
Because you are more qualified than the entire scientific community (besides those handful of shills that get their money from folks like Exon Mobile).
Sure thing, whatever you say.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 13 2020, @07:57PM
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday March 14 2020, @11:53AM
I cited scientific researchers who have found evidence the Amazon was heavily populated before and much more deforested than it is now.
You cited...nothing.
I provided multiple links, with a limited claim.
You gave an expansive, insulting dismissal and backed it up with nothing.
Sure thing, whatever you say.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by corey on Friday March 13 2020, @09:18PM (9 children)
What can we do about this? How do we convince Brazil to stop logging it?
I wish the billionaires of this world would get together and buy tens of millions of acres of it to just lock up with armed patrols.
We can't let this happen.
I feel like the Amazon is so important to all humanity that most of it that remains should be taken from Brazil and designated an international protected zone. Like international waters, not owned by anybody but in this case, owned by all, like a body corporate owns shared rental property. Then Brazil, which has demonstrated so far that it's incapable of managing such an important asset, can farm, mine and log what it wants on its own land.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday March 13 2020, @09:42PM (1 child)
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @03:14PM
The Brazilian government is ultimately the largest part of the problem. The current administration has been encouraging it and ignoring regulations.
The best way to solve the problem would be to find ways of cracking down on the import of resources generated by burning down the rainforests while finding ways of helping the local communities profit by preserving the rainforest as they were. Perhaps paying a fee for maintining and a smaller one for restoration efforts. Ecotourism is also often a great option where possible. You give up some measure of what was there originally, but you gain the revenue and resources necessary to preserve a larger section.
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday March 13 2020, @11:08PM (4 children)
Once upon a time the US cut all her trees to get on top of the world economy. Why would Brazil behave any different?
This whole green movement is designed to make sure Brazil never develops. Guess what, they not only want to develop, they actually want to lead the world and have the US girls for house help.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 14 2020, @05:51PM (1 child)
My take is that it's just an unintended consequence - different parts of the world with different interests and concerns.
They'll have a long ways before that's possible.
(Score: 2) by legont on Saturday March 14 2020, @10:11PM
I might agree with you, but nevertheless, whoever asks for sacrifices for a greater good should do it herself. One can't ask Brazil to stop cutting trees until her personal comfort is better than Brazil's.
My point is not moral, mind you. It simply would never work otherwise. Once Brazil is better developed that the US, they will start green movement for sure.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by corey on Sunday March 15 2020, @08:46PM (1 child)
Because we're all fucked if they cut it, read the article.
The difference is, the US was able to, without major ramifications to Earth's oxygen production. This is different.
(Score: 2) by legont on Monday March 16 2020, @02:50AM
The US is totally willing to risk extermination of life on Earth (re: Soviets) to get her goals. Therefore Brazil can, and will, get her goals no matter what.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @03:12AM
What can we do about this?
Give the Amazon a Brazilian.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Saturday March 14 2020, @11:57AM
No, that's not the answer at all.
Brazil has the answer at hand--terra preta. Look it up. It's the man-made soil the vanished inhabitants of the Amazon basin manufactured. It's incredibly fertile. Some researchers have calculated it can produce up to eight crops a year. That's mind-boggling.
Since they have been cutting down the trees mostly to farm, with terra preta they won't have to.
There has been progress toward figuring out how to replicate what the natives did, and once they've cracked it they'll be set. Clearing jungle is, after all, a lot of work you'd rather not have to do if you have a better way.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by ElizabethGreene on Saturday March 14 2020, @12:00AM
Apocalyptic predictions may be exciting, but they come at the cost of robbing credibility from the more likely scenarios.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 14 2020, @05:05AM
Because coal and nukular is bad. Also when you burn wood, ethanol and oils from biological matter, CO2 and PM2.5 don't count as pollution. Don't forget to store carbon as plastic thrash islands in the ocean.