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posted by chromas on Friday July 17 2020, @02:40AM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the if-you-have-nothing-to-hide-y—oh-wait dept.

Facial recognition linked to a second wrongful arrest by Detroit police:

A false facial recognition match has led to the arrest of another innocent person. According to the Detroit Free Press, police in the city arrested a man for allegedly reaching into a person's car, taking their phone and throwing it, breaking the case and damaging the screen in the process.

Facial recognition flagged Michael Oliver as a possible suspect, and the victim identified him in a photo lineup as the person who damaged their phone. Oliver was charged with a felony count of larceny over the May 2019 incident. He said he didn't commit the crime and the evidence supported his claim.

The perpetrator, who was recorded in footage captured on a phone, doesn't look like Oliver. For one thing, he has tattoos on his arms, and there aren't any visible on the person in the video. When Oliver's attorney took photos of him to the victim and an assistant prosecutor, they agreed Oliver had been misidentified. A judge later dismissed the case.

[...] Late last month, Detroit Police Chief James Craig suggested the technology the department uses, which was created by DataWorks Plus, isn't always reliable. "If we were just to use the technology by itself, to identify someone, I would say 96 percent of the time it would misidentify," he said in a public meeting, according to Motherboard. From the start of the year through June 22nd, the force used the software 70 times per the department's public data. In all but two of those cases, the person whose image the technology analyzed was Black.


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  • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:18AM (70 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:18AM (#1022727)

    For one thing, he has tattoos on his arms, and there aren't any visible on the person in the video.

    Step 1 : Commit crime while showing arms without any tattoos

    Step 2 : Get arm tattoos

    Step 3 : Show arm tattoos if taken in for questioning

    Step 4 : ???

    Step 5 : Profit!

    Step 6 :

    ...Discover that you contracted AIDS from a contaminated tattoo needle
    • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:36AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:36AM (#1022733)

      Nah... Michael Oliver is white. The facial recognition software isn't calibrated for white balance.

      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:20AM

        by driverless (4770) on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:20AM (#1023228)

        Interesting that you mention that, when I read the summary I immediately thought "I wonder if Michael Oliver is black?". Went to the DFP web site, which has a photo, and sure enough... who woulda thought that a system trained on white males would get it totally wrong on a black guy?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @03:38AM (67 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @03:38AM (#1022736) Homepage Journal

      Everything I've read so far, suggests that the facial recognition works just fine - for white people. Especially for white males. So, just stop being black, brown, female, or Asian, right?

      Seriously, though. If the software is only reliable with one subset of the human species, maybe the software is fucked? I don't much care how or why it got fucked, it's clearly fucked. For what - maybe 5% of the human race, it can be shown to be reliable? And, the other 95% of the human race - ??????

      Just scrap that shit. Wherever the biases came from it clearly isn't any good.

      --
      The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:46AM (27 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @03:46AM (#1022737)

        It wasn't just computerized facial recognition that fingered him, the victim also said Oliver was the guy who did it.

        It got cleared up even before trial. This is the way things are supposed to work, isn't it?

        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @04:08AM (24 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:08AM (#1022743) Homepage Journal

          It got cleared up AFTER Oliver was charged. He now has a police arrest record. There is no indication that Oliver had a record prior to this incident. No matter, if/when any cop stops Oliver for any reason, and asks for ID, Oliver will come back as being a violent thug who smashes other people's property with little provocation.

          I don't know if you looked at the photos - https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/07/10/facial-recognition-detroit-michael-oliver-robert-williams/5392166002/ [freep.com]

          I'm a half bling old man, who doesn't really look at people. But, it only took 3 seconds to find multiple reasons why Oliver never should have been fingered.

          1. Color is wrong, but we might dismiss that for lighting.
          2. Lips are very different
          3. Forehead is distinctly different - bad guy has a distinctive ridge above his eyes that Oliver does not have
          4. Eyebrows are very iffy - but we might dismiss that for lighting
          5. Nose is distinctly different, and no, you can't make the two noses look alike with lighting
          6. Ears - Oliver's ears are close to his skull, the bad guy's ears stick out
          7. The FRIGGING TATS!!
          Lawyer cites hairstyle - that's meaningless, as hair can be restyled in an hour or less.
          Lawyer cites body type - I don't see enough of Oliver in the photos to judge that.

          I see exactly two points of similarity between the two people, based on the available photos.
          1. They are both non-white
          2. The overall shape of their heads is quite similar

          No cop in his right mind should have confused the person in the video with Oliver. What we have here is the same kind of pseudoscience that allowed lie detectors into courtrooms, decades ago. Bite mark forensics, fire arson forensics, and so much more have been discredited as pseudoscience. Those stupid "sobriety tests" are just so much pseudoscience.

          The cops get some kind of gadget, and hype it up as "science" in court. Ignorant lawyers and judges who know nothing believe the cops. And, then the pseudoscience eventually falls apart, because SOMEONE takes enough interest to disprove the fake evidence.

          --
          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:29AM (23 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:29AM (#1022758)

            The victim fingered him. Our justice system isn't perfect, but positive identification of a victim gives the police cause to arrest someone.

            No one has the right to live free of being arrested for cause, even if it doesn't end in conviction. I don't know how things work in Detroit, but Oliver probably has cause to file for an expungement of his arrest record.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Friday July 17 2020, @05:27AM (22 children)

              by RS3 (6367) on Friday July 17 2020, @05:27AM (#1022782)

              Does he get any kind of compensation for emotional trauma, kidnapping, being deprived of his freedom, loss of wages, any losses at all including time?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @05:30AM (21 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @05:30AM (#1022783)

                "Kidnapping?" The man was lawfully arrested.

                He'd be lucky to get a ride back home. It's the most any of us can hope for when the police take an interest in us.

                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Friday July 17 2020, @06:11AM (20 children)

                  by RS3 (6367) on Friday July 17 2020, @06:11AM (#1022796)

                  I thought the US Constitution guaranteed we would not be deprived of our freedom until found guilty by a court of law? I'm probably wishing that was the case.

                  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @06:53AM (11 children)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @06:53AM (#1022800)

                    Always better to go by the source documents than your perceived knowledge:
                    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

                    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by RS3 on Friday July 17 2020, @01:09PM (10 children)

                      by RS3 (6367) on Friday July 17 2020, @01:09PM (#1022877)

                      Amendment VIII (1791)
                      "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

                      I guess we have to argue and define "excessive". Let's look at the fundamental reason for bail- to ensure the accused shows up at trial, right? If I've got that wrong, I'll wait until you fix my broken thinking again.

                      So to me, "excessive" means more than a person can afford. I'm not sure whose side you're on, but I'm on the "innocent until proven guilty" side. In some cases the proof is 100% clear up front, but IMHO, things have gradually eroded and cops have too much power. Far too many cases of innocent people not just being deprived of time and belongings and their future, but often they lose their life in the process. But maybe you haven't been watching the news lately...

                      • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday July 17 2020, @03:18PM (9 children)

                        by dry (223) on Friday July 17 2020, @03:18PM (#1022913) Journal

                        It's a combination of what the accused can afford, the seriousness of the crime and likelihood of the accused not showing up. A murderer is going to have higher bail then a shoplifter, a rich person should have higher bail then a poor person. Think of the extreme case, young man with no money or ties to the area charged with murder, bail is going to be more then he can afford as he is likely to skip town.
                        OTOH, it does seem to get abused a lot and is one of those subjective things. The other problem is not having a speedy trial, another subjective thing. I understand that being in remand waiting for trial is one of the worst ways to spend time in prison.

                        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday July 19 2020, @04:26AM (8 children)

                          by RS3 (6367) on Sunday July 19 2020, @04:26AM (#1023635)

                          I understand (knew) everything you wrote, but my problem is:

                          I understand that being in remand waiting for trial is one of the worst ways to spend time in prison.

                          The whole point is that you can't mount a defense if you're locked up. "Innocent until proven guilty" does not mean "but you can only do it by a combination of being clever, making stuff up, dumb luck, having a good attorney, the prosecution botching things, a tree falling on a witness who's against you, etc."

                          It's a system set up by lawyers to benefit, yup, lawyers. Sorry if you're one- they're not all bad. Again, I blame a degraded system.

                          • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday July 19 2020, @05:59PM (7 children)

                            by dry (223) on Sunday July 19 2020, @05:59PM (#1023788) Journal

                            It's a problem, what do you do with someone charged with a major crime who is likely to skip town?
                            One thing the courts are doing here is enforcing the right to a speedy trial, with speedy set at 18 months. Supreme Court just let off another probable murderer due to the trial taking too long.

                            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday July 20 2020, @02:58AM (6 children)

                              by RS3 (6367) on Monday July 20 2020, @02:58AM (#1023947)

                              You actually closed the circle, and I wasn't trying to steer you. That "speedy" == 18 months is one of the big problems. I really don't understand why these things are taking so long, but something needs to change in the way investigations, information compiled, and cases made.

                              I just think that it's highly highly criminal to incarcerate an innocent person, and if you look at the whole situation from that perspective, you might change your defense of the existing (very broken IMHO) system. I don't know if you or anyone you know has ever been falsely accused, or assumed guilty due to some coincidence, circumstantial but incorrect "evidence", trumped-up charges, blackmail, railroading, etc., but I'm on the side of most of the Founding Fathers that it is supremely wrong for a government to deprive an innocent person of their freedom. People love to argue how much worse it is in other countries and situations but that's one of those logical fallacies ("whataboutism" if nothing else) that I can't identify but obviously wrong.

                              I know in many cases there's a preliminary hearing where the prosecution presents strong evidence to a judge, who decides how high bail should be set (if at all) to prevent flight risk. Again, sometimes those people are innocent but set up by (criminal IMHO) cops, but are given NO opportunity to defend themselves.

                              I'd be much more okay with the current system if the proven innocent person could put the cops and judges in prison. It's one of too many mechanisms in our government where there are no working "checks and balances".

                              • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday July 20 2020, @04:50AM (5 children)

                                by dry (223) on Monday July 20 2020, @04:50AM (#1023979) Journal

                                Well, 18 months is a lot better then many years. One problem here is a simple shortage of Judges. And getting to trial can take time, along with the standard procedures. You get arrested, presented to a Judge with charges etc where bail is decided, or a delay to get a lawyer and then decide bail. Then there are a series of appearances where things like discovery happen and then more time for the defense to get their defense together, maybe a preliminary hearing, which is about if there is enough evidence to go to trial, and then the trial. What is needed is more courts so trials don't need to be booked so far in advance, but it still takes time. Picking someone up and putting them on trial the next week isn't fair either as people need time to do discovery, go over the evidence and mount a defense. It should take a couple of months.
                                I really don't like the idea of innocent people spending time in remand, or worse, being convicted with a long sentence or in some places, put to death. I also don't like the idea of a cold blooded murderer being allowed to skip town and country.

                                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday July 20 2020, @06:49AM (4 children)

                                  by RS3 (6367) on Monday July 20 2020, @06:49AM (#1023999)

                                  Thanks, but all things I know and are probably common knowledge (?).

                                  We generally agree in principal, but not on where to draw the line. I'm not sure where you're based (Canada? UK?) but if you think about the US in particular, we were founded by mostly well behaved ethical moral people who were breaking away from tyranny. They felt strongly (as do I) about the rights of individuals, and you hear and read about those rights a lot. I know we differ on this, and I'm okay with differing, but I'd rather a murderer on the loose than innocent people in prison.

                                  We certainly have a shortage of judges and courts, COVID-19 shutdowns aside. I wish our Constitution specified a "speedy" trial. There are no easy answers, and any hard lines drawn will result in injustice. I've always hated the adversarial system. I just don't agree with it on principal. I'd rather have a neutral third-party handle legal cases- an augmented judge system. Not just 1 judge and a big theatrical court showdown, but from the start judicial staff coordinating all evidence, deciding if someone needs to be held, etc. But at that point the evidence better be solid verifiable facts, not AI facial recognition or other flaky crap. Too many liars out there.

                                  Criminals skipping town is a problem. Here in the US we have another problem: if you're ticketed by an automated system like red light cameras, but for whatever reason you don't receive the notice, the courts don't care- they consider you properly notified. They hold court anyway, find you guilty by default, you still don't know, you don't pay the fine because you don't know (maybe you moved, Postal Service didn't forward mail) so now there's an arrest warrant out for you. Cop stops you for simple traffic violation (or just because they're cops) and now you're actually arrested. No fault of your own. Sorry, but that's a crime committed by govt.

                                  More to write, too tired. We can agree to disagree. :) I hope you never get caught up in it, but if you do, or someone close to you, you might re-think some of these things and where to draw lines.

                                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 21 2020, @01:42AM (3 children)

                                    by dry (223) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @01:42AM (#1024389) Journal

                                    I'm in Canada, a country where one of our founding populations were also "mostly well behaved ethical moral people who were breaking away from tyranny", though in their case, it was being tarred and feathered, lynched by Col. Lynch and friends as well as the American colonial legislatures that were in revolt, using letters of attainder to steal their property and worse, without judicial oversight. It makes an impression when the people revolting over their rights being violated, violate peoples rights.
                                    I'd also prefer a murderer on the loose then an innocent in prison or executed, I just think that wrongful convictions (and the innocence project has lots of examples), especially when it involves someones life, is a bigger problem then remanding someone with lots of evidence that they'll probably be found guilty in a court of law and it is a serious crime and the person really has to be a high risk of flight. I think remand is used much less here then there.
                                    And yes, the adversarial system has lots of problems, just ask any woman trying to be a defendant in a sexual assault case. There's a reason that most women don't pursue charges, yet, even at 10% of false accusations, there needs to be some type of trial.
                                    You seem to be referring to more of how civil law systems handle court cases, they seem to result in injustice too much as well.
                                    At least here, traffic violations are not criminal, with some exceptions. Our country is set up differently, criminal law is purely a Federal responsibility while traffic violations and such are Provincial. In the red light camera example, here you'd find out about it when you dealt with the motor vehicle branch, renewing your registration or driving license, at which point you could escalate it to court or pay the fine.

                                    • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:46AM (2 children)

                                      by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:46AM (#1024418)

                                      Very cool, I agree on all points, esp. with your qualifying info. :)

                                      So here in USA we have both state and federal crimes, and there are many layers that make such decisions. One of many complaints I have about US law and politics is that state and federal legislatures give far too much power to various agencies, and they run amok. Especially various prosecutors, state's attorneys general, local district attorneys, and of course the federal ones have been in the news a lot. They have far too much power to decide on which cases to investigate and prosecute, who to handcuff and lock up, etc. I don't want to give too much away but I asked for a local (county) assistant district attorney to look into something and they refused- I have to pay big $ to mount a civil case, and if I win, they'll follow up. Nevermind that they have huge investigative, subpoena, and other powers that I don't have. Very broken system with too much power given to too few people. Again, it varies, sometimes quite a bit, sometimes not at all, from state to state. Some states allow an individual to file a criminal complaint against someone; most states require DA or AG to file the case.

                                      Traffic tickets here are generally a "summary" offense. You are automatically summoned to court, but you can just check off "guilty" and send in the fine and not need to go to court. If you choose to fight it, the cop may not show up, but you still have to present a defense. Nope, not "innocent until proven guilty". That's a pipe dream. Of course some offenses like drunk driving are immediate arrest. People often incorrectly say they were "arrested" when issued a traffic ticket. Arrest means handcuffs, booked into jail, await prelim. hearing, bail if offered, etc.

                                      • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 21 2020, @05:27AM (1 child)

                                        by dry (223) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @05:27AM (#1024470) Journal

                                        Yes, it is scary how politicized your criminal system is. Having prosecutors, district attorneys, Judges, even the head of the police, often being elected and so responsible to the governing party, and therefore partisan. Even in the States that don't elect these offices, they still seem way too partisan. Courts and police should be independent of politics.
                                        Here, excepting the Attorney General, who is part of the government, though still independent, the court system works for the Crown, and while they're appointed on the advice of the government, it really seems to be based on qualifications rather then politics. And while the Provincial broadly directs law enforcement, there is really a feeling of independence with general directives like don't worry about prosecuting personal drug use in my Province. I wasn't clear up the page, feds write criminal law, Provinces enforce it unless it is something under Federal jurisdiction.
                                        Traffic tickets are offences under the Motor Vehicle Act here, default is the courts aren't involved though you can elect to argue in court, and hope the cop doesn't show. Serious driving offences like dangerous driving causing death are criminal and DUI can be either, usually handled by the Provinces laws but the option for criminal charges is there.
                                        We also have summary and indictable offences, with arrest usually for an indictable offence, though the Crown might decide to pursue it as a summary offence,where you just sign a promise to appear. We also have more limits on the right to a jury trial, basically if facing 5+ years, you can elect trial by jury.

                                        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday July 21 2020, @05:57AM

                                          by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @05:57AM (#1024475)

                                          I've often thought I'd be happier in Canada.

                                          Yes, we have the right to jury trial, and it's interesting the strategizing that goes on. There are many factors. Juries are more apt to make emotional and empathetic decisions, so that's got to be considered.

                                          Yes, judges, DAs, AGs, etc., are mostly elected and strongly identify with a political party. I dream of a world with no political parties, or many, rather than mostly 2 that constantly fight like ill-behaved unattended children.

                                          I was just reminded of "Writ of Habeas Corpus" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus [wikipedia.org] so there is some possible help for incarcerated innocents. I'm not sure when or how often it's used.

                                          Your system sounds a lot better. I've always wanted an independent investigator system. Not arrest-happy head-thumping cops and DAs that work hand-in-hand.

                  • (Score: 2) by dry on Friday July 17 2020, @03:09PM (7 children)

                    by dry (223) on Friday July 17 2020, @03:09PM (#1022909) Journal

                    In practice, the cops can hold you for 24-72 hours before needing to present the subject to a Judge for a bail hearing. This is necessary as the cops might arrest someone on Friday evening and not be able to get to a Judge until Monday. Of course it can be abused or used to do things like lock a drunk up for the night.

                    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday July 17 2020, @04:43PM (6 children)

                      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:43PM (#1022957) Journal

                      I think it is more often used as an extra judicial form of punishment.

                      All they need is an excuse to arrest you on the flimsiest excuse.

                      They don't have to beat you up. All nice and neat. Slicker than snot on a doorknob.

                      Beating you up can be done later within the detention facility through careful and judicious cellmate assignments.

                      --
                      This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
                      • (Score: 2) by dry on Saturday July 18 2020, @06:45AM (5 children)

                        by dry (223) on Saturday July 18 2020, @06:45AM (#1023281) Journal

                        Yes, in practice it can be used for extra judicial punishment, especially when you trip and break bones or worse. OTOH, sometimes a bit of extra judicial punishment can be good, putting a bit of a scare into a kid kind of thing

                        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday July 20 2020, @03:06AM (4 children)

                          by RS3 (6367) on Monday July 20 2020, @03:06AM (#1023950)

                          Not to differ with you because you're making great points, but that's a great example of yet another problem: some kids are "scared straight". But some are not.

                          Talk to some psychologists and others who work with troubled / criminal types: some kids are emboldened by the experience of doing something pretty bad, but getting away with it. Some people are truly deeply tough and mean, and threatening them, punishing them, etc., just makes them meaner, tougher, and they commit worse and worse crimes.

                          Not sure how to identify those people, but "3-strikes" laws are a good start (when not abused by overly zealous cops and prosecutors).

                          • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday July 20 2020, @05:03AM (3 children)

                            by dry (223) on Monday July 20 2020, @05:03AM (#1023982) Journal

                            3 strike laws (and minimum sentences) are mostly unconstitutional here, due to the cruel and unusual punishment clause in our Constitution, and I generally agree with it. What should happen is that repeat offenders get longer and longer sentences. We also have a special category, the dangerous offender, where someone, after a court hearing, can be put in prison indefinitely.

                            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Monday July 20 2020, @06:28AM (2 children)

                              by RS3 (6367) on Monday July 20 2020, @06:28AM (#1023997)

                              As you probably know, we have "cruel and unusual" clause too, but the 3-strikes doesn't seem to contradict it. "Dangerous offender" seems like a good idea, if done very carefully.

                              It's all a depressing problem. Prison seems like it makes people worse, but I don't know that all criminals can be "rehabilitated".

                              • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday July 21 2020, @12:15AM (1 child)

                                by dry (223) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @12:15AM (#1024340) Journal

                                Yea, its weird, IIRC, there was a case that made it to your Supreme Court, dealing with lethal injection I believe, and how painful of a death it was. The SCUS ruled it was fine as the cruel and unusual punishment clause should be considered as what was cruel and unusual in 1789 or whenever the amendment was passed. Other rights have been updated, no searching electronic devices for example even though they weren't mentioned in the 4th.
                                It is a problem as all criminals can't be rehabilitated, there are psychopaths, and even people with fetal alcohol syndrome who can't seem to help themselves or even understand right from wrong. Still, while there's a good argument for removing them from society, I don't see an argument for punishing someone who was unlucky enough to be born, or through circumstances became, defective in their thinking and actions.

                                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Tuesday July 21 2020, @03:20AM

                                  by RS3 (6367) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @03:20AM (#1024425)

                                  Wow, we're quite in sync on all points. Well, we could do what our colonial rulers did- put them all in Australia. :) Big g'day grin to our Aussie brothers and sisters. :)

                                  Part of me wishes I had gone into law and maybe politics. Anyway, we often hear about "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law". As I mentioned above, some people have too much power, such as judges. Which segues to...

                                  Again as I mentioned above I may have to pursue a case in court. A very very similar case was tried before the very judge I'll have to go before, and he found against the plaintiff (which would be ME). However, the case was overturned on appeal in superior court. No clue what it must have cost the people, but huge. So here's yet another of my major criticisms of our system: how the heck is that judge not in prison? If he doesn't know how to correctly interpret law and find correctly, how is he even a judge, if not in prison? Our system is not agile at all. No self-correction that I'm seeing. There is a "judicial review" system but obviously it is non-functional. Probably a "good old boy" system. I do see and hear in many places including the news that judges can be a problem and need more oversight.

                                  The drug wars in this country are far far out of hand. They've dovetailed into "civil forfeiture". If you're accused of a drug crime, you can lose everything you own, and even if you're proven completely innocent, tough crap, your life and belongings and $ are gonesky, as in sucks to be you. How corrupt is our system?

                                  Good friend of mine's son got arrested 20 months ago. He's 20something, was on Ritalin, and needs to be. He's functional, but if you met him you'd pick up that something's not quite right. Not sure why he had extra Ritalin, but most people who need mental health medications don't always take them as they should. Anyway, he sold some to an undercover cop, and the cop did it 3 times to pile on the charges. Yes, they're allowed to do that. Pure entrapment, goading, something. Anyway, it happened in a county that's known for very tough prosecution and they went pretty hard on him. He was able to keep his job delivering pizzas, but every weekend for 7 months he had to spend in prison. If he was 1 minute late, they'd have thrown him in prison for a full 2 year sentence. He not only has to pay for his imprisonment- as in, pay $ to the prison system, he's been on an ankle monitor the whole time and he has to pay something like $430 / month for that!

                                  Did I mention, he was prescribed Ritalin by a doctor? Should that have been an extenuating circumstance? Like, it's proven that he's not altogether making good decisions because provably his decision maker (brain) has problems. Absolutely no consideration of his mental health problem. They treated him like he was a street thug pusher. He's actually a very well behaved, polite, clean-cut, decent person. Believe it or not we have a few here in the US but we keep them hidden. :)

                                  And all of this took a huge emotional toll on his mom especially, and dad of course because they helped him as much as possible, and his amazing wife has stuck with him too.

                                  Oh, and it didn't really go to trial. There's a court hearing, but no real process- he took a "plea bargain" because the lawyer said he'd go to prison for years if he went to court. I might have taken my chances with a jury, if they're allowed to know that he has a mental illness. But knowing our legal system, that info might have been disallowed in the hearings. Rigged system, framed people.

                                  This is one of many reasons the world is seeing so much unrest in the US. It's not just BLM- they're certainly right to protest, but the whole "legal system" is so rigged and corrupt in the US it all needs to be dismantled.

                                  We The People have done a poor job of vigilance. There's a lot going on that we barely know about. News media is supposed to help uncover problems, but look at the crapstorm they've become.

                                  I've heard interestingly good things about some European courts, like they're often doing away with oral argument, which makes me happy because should someone win because they have a great charismatic entertaining enthralling lawyer?

                                  Full disclosure- my brother is a lawyer and just yesterday was telling me a story of how he got someone out of a criminal situation by playing to the jury. The person was found guilty in a followup case, different court and lawyers. The case is so bizarre it needs to be made into a movie. If you ever heard of Frank Abignola, "Catch me if you can" guy- this story is similarly bizarre and movie-worthy.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:42PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:42PM (#1022956)

          are you on The Cheese? have you ever been to county jail? how about for something you didn't even fucking do? do you have any idea on how incompetent and callous the "justice system" is? these motherfuckers charge people, not even caring if it's the right person, drag you slowly through jail holding tanks with hardened criminals, get you sick in jail with god knows what disease, leave you in jail longer than your sentence due to all sorts of BS reasons, subject you to all manner of psychological trauma, etc. Anything that makes these moronic fucks more apt to mischarge people shouldn't be allowed to be used. It will take them forever to correct the mistake if they ever do. Most won't get corrected by the modern US slavery system. fuckkkkkk themmm!

          • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Sunday July 19 2020, @04:29AM

            by RS3 (6367) on Sunday July 19 2020, @04:29AM (#1023639)

            Yup, this ^^^. You're pretty much guilty until proven innocent in the USA. Too many people love to say "it's the best in the world". No it is not, and even if it was, that doesn't mean it's an okay system. It's badly broken.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:03AM (31 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:03AM (#1022740)

        Everything I've read so far, suggests that the facial recognition works just fine - for white people. Especially for white males.

        If the software is only reliable... For what - maybe 5% of the human race

        Rrrrright. White men are only 5% of the population, clearly a minority.
        This explains, nay, justifies their struggle to get rid of their oppressors [soylentnews.org], that's the boogaloo is about.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @04:14AM (29 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:14AM (#1022749) Homepage Journal

          The United States has roughly 5% of the world's population. Europe, where most white people come from, has a similar percentage of the world's population. That's 10%. About half of that is male, so we have 5% of the world's population.

          Don't like the numbers? I can't help that, Snowflake. White people really are a minority in this world.

          What's that? You're a xenophobic American? You've never been outside the United States? You've never walked through a crowd of ten thousand people, and not seen one other white person? Jesus Christ - and you think that you're qualified to have an opinion here?

          --
          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:27AM (28 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:27AM (#1022756)

            And this justifies the boogaloo, right?

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @04:39AM (27 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:39AM (#1022761) Homepage Journal

              White people like myself aren't calling for a boogaloo. It's the self-loathing whites whose grandparents probably owned slaves who are calling for the boogaloo. More normal assholes such as myself only promise that if the boogaloo happens, we'll be kicking ass, and not bothering to take names. The priests and the coroners can worry about the names - and God will always sort them out.

              It's your call, Cupcake. Is the boogaloo justified?

              --
              The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
              • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:59AM (26 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:59AM (#1022767)

                More normal assholes such as myself only promise that if the boogaloo happens, we'll be kicking ass, and not bothering to take names.

                Glad it's sorted out; jackal trash, let others start the fight we'll pick the pieces.
                Navy honor and courage my ass. What were you, suppo or just cook?

                • (Score: 5, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @05:11AM (25 children)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @05:11AM (#1022772) Homepage Journal

                  ROFLMAO - here I am standing up to bullies, and you're going to call me a coward for not starting the fight myself. You're a real piece of work, you are. Of course a bully with a mob behind him has his own idea of what honor and courage are all about, don't you?

                  --
                  The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:33AM (24 children)

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:33AM (#1023147) Journal

                    Yeah, you don't have the guts. You're just gonna stand on the sidelines and egg the ones with some actual initiative on. You know, saying stuff about how you think your grandkids are going to be "slaves to make brown and black people happy" and all that shit. Truth is, you don't even rise to the level of "bully." That would imply a level of motivation, initiative, foresight, and competence you don't have, never did have, and never will have.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:37AM (23 children)

                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:37AM (#1023149) Homepage Journal

                      Ahhhh, the internet psychoanalyst finally weighs in.

                      I suppose that you side with the armed insurrectionists in Portland?

                      --
                      The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:01AM (22 children)

                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:01AM (#1023157) Journal

                        I don't know enough about the situation to take sides yet.

                        However, since I am a) not a goddamn psychopath and b) passed civics in fourth grade...

                        --
                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:17AM (21 children)

                          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:17AM (#1023163) Homepage Journal

                          Civics? In fourth grade? Really? As I recall, my first civics, or "social studies" book was 6th grade. It was more simple in third and fourth - just plain old geography, and American history. Of course, being a millenial, you probably don't mean the same thing as I do when you say "civics".

                          --
                          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:49AM (20 children)

                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:49AM (#1023208) Journal

                            You might be surprised :) Remember, I'm a voracious reader and always was; at the age of 8 I was reading about, and *understanding,* the chemistry and physics (but not the math, ugh) of uranium fission. I took a keen interest in anything I could get my hands on at the library, mostly science but plenty of history too.

                            It's just a goddamn shame you don't seem to have retained any of that information you supposedly got in 6th grade, seeing as you seem to have no issue with people wiping their ass on the Constitution so long as "your side" doesn't suffer. To which I say, just wait...

                            --
                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:17AM (1 child)

                              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:17AM (#1023226)

                              You don't seem to have retained much about "*understanding,* the chemistry and physics (but not the math, ugh) of uranium fission", as you ended up becoming a pharmacy tech?

                              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:58PM

                                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:58PM (#1023384) Journal

                                I was doing earth science with a geology major in college, and my junior year research proposal had to do with thorium fission. The school took and still takes a lot of oil money, though, so that went precisely nowhere. Besides which, I was always a giant chemistry geek, so this is a natural fit.

                                What's your problem, anyway? I'm at least doing something productive. What do you do, sit around all day whacking off to bestiality porn?

                                --
                                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:23AM (17 children)

                              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:23AM (#1023229) Homepage Journal

                              Who wipes their ass on the constitution more often? First people in line are all those SOBs who want to eliminate the second amendment. That is just about 75% of the D party, and the other 25% just don't give a damn.

                              --
                              The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:57PM (16 children)

                                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @02:57PM (#1023382) Journal

                                So you and all the other second-amendment types had better get out there and deal with the DHS driving up to people in unmarked vans and hauling them off to undisclosed locations.

                                After all, the purpose of the 2A is to fight off tyrants and threats to the Constitution, isn't it? So grab your penis extension, waddle on out there, and start defending freedom! Because you definitely aren't just posturing and blowing smoke with all that jingoistic bullshit, riiiiight? Come on, MARCH, you sack of shit!

                                --
                                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:28PM (15 children)

                                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @03:28PM (#1023394) Homepage Journal

                                  You'll have to practice some more before you can become a drill instructor.

                                  --
                                  The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @09:10PM (14 children)

                                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @09:10PM (#1023499) Journal

                                    What's the point of trying to drill wet Jell-O like you? I don't care that you're 4-F ("forever fucktarded"), I just want you to put your money where your mouth is.

                                    Or were you lying about your motives the whole time? That's unpossible!

                                    --
                                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @09:55PM (13 children)

                                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @09:55PM (#1023517) Homepage Journal

                                      I'm sure that you come from a whole family of 4-F, but I'm not part of that inbreeding program.

                                      --
                                      The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 18 2020, @11:56PM (12 children)

                                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday July 18 2020, @11:56PM (#1023552) Journal

                                        Yeah, YOUR family tree looks like a telephone pole shagged a Chia pet...which was also its cousin to begin with.

                                        Fact remains, you're a goddamn hypocrite. You make all this noise about resisting tyranny with your boomsticks, and now that there is actual Gestapo-style abduction of citizens happening on our very own soil here and now, you say not a word against it. Indeed, one gets the sense that you approve of it. And that means you're complicit.

                                        Put your money where your mouth is and use those much-vaunted second amendment rights of yours, or you will lose them.

                                        --
                                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                        • (Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2020, @12:35AM

                                          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 19 2020, @12:35AM (#1023559)

                                          The alleged rioters and anarchists were lawfully arrested and can defend themselves in court.

                                          Stop living in your fantasy world, or move your insurrection to Syrupland where it belongs.

                                        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2020, @01:00AM (10 children)

                                          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 19 2020, @01:00AM (#1023577) Homepage Journal

                                          I see nothing terribly out of order here. Rioters. Federal property involved in some of the rioting. Federal officers question some of said rioters. Rioter invokes his right to speak to a lawyer before answering questions. Federal officers allow rioter to go home. I strongly suspect that federal officers are preparing the case against said rioter, and they will be summoning him to court soon. At which time, he may barricade himself inside his hovel, or he may agree to become an informant, or he may go to trial, and be found innocent or guilty.

                                          What, you expect me to be like his gullible mayor, and believe every word of his narrative? Puuh-LEASE. You have at least ten or fifteen gray matter cells. Think about it.

                                          --
                                          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 19 2020, @02:14AM (9 children)

                                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday July 19 2020, @02:14AM (#1023601) Journal

                                            We have procedures for dealing with vandals. They do not involve kidnapping. You refuse to see the point because you're cheerleading the rolling destruction of the Constitution. They will come for you soon enough...

                                            --
                                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                            • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Sunday July 19 2020, @02:51AM (8 children)

                                              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday July 19 2020, @02:51AM (#1023610) Homepage Journal

                                              No, it is you who is cheerleading here. You don't like the Republic in which you were brought up. You prefer some romanticized notion of a democracy. Well, we DO NOT live in a democracy. You are cheerleading the destruction of the Republic. You probably won't get the democracy that you think you want. More likely, you'll face years, maybe decades of anarchy. Petty warlords and such will rule the streets, until a strong government takes it back. Wake the fuck up - there is no democracy, and you can't force it onto people.

                                              If you don't like your house, do you try to make repairs to it, or do you just burn it down? You don't like the republic, start FIXING IT, don't cheer for the rioters.

                                              --
                                              The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday July 19 2020, @07:53PM (7 children)

                                                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday July 19 2020, @07:53PM (#1023814) Journal

                                                Stop stealing my lines...or are you telling me you *like* things as they are now and where they're going?!

                                                Listen, dipfuck, I hear you fat wheezing armchair generals constantly bloviating about how "muh gunz!" are *specifically* to be used at a time like this--when the government jumps the rails and starts kidnapping citizens with no due process!--always going on about how you're such badass heroes-in-retirement just *waiting* for some soulless empty suit to start offending against the Constitution, at which point you'll spring into action and save the motherfuckin' day, guns-a-blazin'.

                                                But I don't see you doing that. Instead I see weaksauce excuses. "Butbutbutbut THEY'RE VANDALS!" Yeah, and the solution to graffiti is soap and water, and using the already-existing channels to prosecute the vandals. Not picking people up off the goddamn street at random, shoving them into unmarked vans, taking them Christ knows where, doing Buddha knows what to them...that shit is what fascists do.

                                                This is literally, word for word, action for action, down to the excuse of "muh property damage!!11111one," what the Nazis did and what other fascist regimes do. We had a war about this. The whole world came. Your grandfather might have personally shot and killed some of the people responsible for it. Do you really want to die on the opposite side?

                                                --
                                                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                                • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Monday July 20 2020, @12:37AM (6 children)

                                                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday July 20 2020, @12:37AM (#1023881) Homepage Journal

                                                  Gotta give you credit - you're good at parroting those talking points spoon fed to you an CNN.

                                                  taking them Christ knows where, doing Buddha knows what to them

                                                  Apparently, you didn't RTFS or RTFA. Dude was taken to the Federal Building, and questioned. When he stated that he wanted a lawyer before answering questions, they cut him loose.

                                                  Now, go back, and look what the fascists did in Germany. Those socialist fascists in Germany took people away, and only parts of bodies were ever found. And, the socialists in China? Pretty much the same. And the socialists in Russia? Those god-damned socialist fascists all over the world are famous for disappearing people, permanently.

                                                  A ride to the local Federal building, and refusing to answer questions without a lawyer, then being shown to the door, simply DOES NOT COUNT.

                                                  The kidnapping that you speak of, was pretty common back in the late 1700's and the first decade of the 1800's. The Brits called it "impressing, we called it a violation of human rights. Those "impressed" sailors might get home in a couple years, or maybe in the same decade, or maybe not at all. THAT is a kidnapping.

                                                  --
                                                  The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday July 21 2020, @01:18AM (5 children)

                                                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @01:18AM (#1024373) Journal

                                                    Why in the fucking fuck does it matter what economic system the kidnappers adhere to?!

                                                    You tribal goddamn moron! This should not be happening in the US! And if you think the extent it's gone to now is where it's going to stop, you have another thing coming. Even you can't possibly be that fucking naive, which means you're willfully lying by omission.

                                                    --
                                                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                                    • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:00AM (4 children)

                                                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:00AM (#1024399) Homepage Journal

                                                      It only matters because socialists and fascists believe that "the ends justifies the means".

                                                      --
                                                      The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:59AM (3 children)

                                                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday July 21 2020, @02:59AM (#1024419) Journal

                                                        Sounds like a good description of the current administration, including Hair Fuhrer. This complete lack of self-awareness on your part is a lifestyle choice; no one is born like this.

                                                        --
                                                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                                        • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday July 21 2020, @03:37AM (2 children)

                                                          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday July 21 2020, @03:37AM (#1024429) Homepage Journal

                                                          Self awareness is something that is seriously lacking amongst the rioters and other fools hoping for the boogaloo.

                                                          --
                                                          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
                                                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday July 22 2020, @12:28AM (1 child)

                                                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday July 22 2020, @12:28AM (#1024806) Journal

                                                            You've spent plenty of time and words and pixels disasturbating over "the boogaloo," especially insofar as you'll get to show the world what a complete badass you are...oh, and that thing about your grandkids not being slaves to "make brown and black people happy." Don't fucking insult our intelligence here; the only reason you aren't jizzing clear through your shorts over the idea is you haven't been able to get it up since Michael Jackson was black.

                                                            --
                                                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                                            • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 22 2020, @12:46AM

                                                              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 22 2020, @12:46AM (#1024811) Homepage Journal

                                                              You really are sick, aren't you? I promise, if you showed any intelligence, I would never insult your intelligence. Fact is, we have at least half a million self-loathing whites out there stirring the shit, and riling up the blacks and the browns. For at least fifty years, we've had people like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton stirring the shit, and making every problem worse with their presence. Now, white people have figured out that they can profit from the same kind of crap.

                                                              Remember that "silent majority"? Well, it's growing larger, every day. People are buying firearms in record numbers. Some of them are Democrats, who are jumping off that sinking ship of "gun control".

                                                              A couple of Dems in St. Louis is in the news these days, after abandoning the party line: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/mark-mccloskey-responds-to-felony-charges-prosecutor-keeps-criminals-safe-from-us/ [thetruthaboutguns.com]

                                                              I think they are #walkaway candidates, don't you?

                                                              --
                                                              The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:50PM (#1022960)

          this boogaloo "movement" has FBI honeypot/operation written all over it. That's like their whole MO these days: creating fake terrorists. I mean think about it. Is there anything more "piggly" than saying "ok, guys. We're going to create a group of revolutionaries/ race warriors and we're all going to wear the same type of shirts so anyone with internet can learn to ID us." It's fucking ridiculous. boogaloo = feds and their dupes.

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by c0lo on Friday July 17 2020, @04:04AM (5 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:04AM (#1022741) Journal

        Stop being black (or brown)?

        Do I hear an undercurrent of "or else..." here?

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday July 17 2020, @04:11AM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:11AM (#1022746) Homepage Journal

          You should get your ears checked. There is definitely an undercurrent of "This is preposterous, how stupid can lawmen be?" I hope you read the rest of the post. Even a not very observant half blind old man picked out multiple dissimilarities in just seconds.

          --
          The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 17 2020, @04:23AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:23AM (#1022755) Journal

            You should get your ears checked.

            Not gonna make any difference.
            I thought it's safer to ask than rely on my ears.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
          • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday July 17 2020, @04:39PM

            by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @04:39PM (#1022954) Journal

            There is definitely an undercurrent of "This is preposterous, how stupid can lawmen be?"

            I take your meaning.

            The problem is that you are assuming police can NOT possibly be that stupid. Not a safe assumption.

            Other people think the question itself makes no sense, there might be no lower limit. Like asking: how small can one over x get as x approaches infinity?

            Stupidity might not even be relevant. It may be racism that decides a police action rather than stupidity. (Although it could be argued racism and stupidity are interrelated.)

            --
            This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday July 17 2020, @10:51AM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday July 17 2020, @10:51AM (#1022831) Homepage
          Are you familiar with the concept of 'rhetoric'? Runaway1956 is using it well, and you're ducking to avoid it as it makes a wooshing sound over your head.
          --
          I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday July 17 2020, @10:58AM

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @10:58AM (#1022835) Journal

            Are you familiar with the concept of 'rhetoric'?

            On Mondays, yes.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0
      • (Score: 4, Funny) by DannyB on Friday July 17 2020, @03:21PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @03:21PM (#1022915) Journal

        Everything I've read so far, suggests that the facial recognition works just fine - for white people. Especially for white males.

        I can just imagine the comment left in the JIRA issue tracking system by a software developer somewhere:

        Working as intended. Won't fix.

        --
        This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:33AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:33AM (#1022760)

    This was caused by insufficient data. Software is fine.

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Friday July 17 2020, @10:56AM

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday July 17 2020, @10:56AM (#1022834) Homepage
      Bollocks. Look at the photos. Look at the faces, and the arms. Notice the brow ridge, the mouth shape, count the tats (very easy in one picture, due to zero tats, rather hard in the other picture, as the arm's completely covered in tats, bummer eh, but get counting, it will be good exercise for at least one lobe of your brain). All the data needed to dismiss the case as a misidentification was there.

      The guy was found guilty of being black in a built up area, end of.

      After he left the courthouse once the case had been dismissed, he was immediately rearrested for loitering near a public street crossing. Bloody recidivist!
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
  • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @06:17AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @06:17AM (#1022797)

    "From the start of the year through June 22nd, the force used the software 70 times per the department's public data. In all but two of those cases, the person whose image the technology analyzed was Black."

    As of the 2010 census, Detroit is about 83% [wikipedia.org] black and that number has been skyrocketing as everybody else has been leaving the city for decades. E.g. from 2000 to 2010 the total city population dropped 25% while the black population increased from 76% to 83%. 2 out of 70 seems hardly meaningful and likely included, without context, only to mislead those who are not aware of the demographics of Detroit.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday July 17 2020, @11:01AM

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday July 17 2020, @11:01AM (#1022838) Homepage
      It has been proven, time and time again (the last paper on it was on SN in the last month), that facial recognition software is highly unreliable on darker skin tones.

      This story isn't about one case. You're not seeing the bigger picture. This is a story abot wrongthink.

      Relying on a tool that is known to work least well on the population that you have in front of you is an extra stubborn type of wrongthink. Mentioning that population is useful context for evaluating the wrongthink.

      We're all sorry it triggered you, would you like a hug?
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
  • (Score: 1) by FR on Friday July 17 2020, @09:53AM (4 children)

    by FR (11655) on Friday July 17 2020, @09:53AM (#1022817)

    Again the press is feeding the public an erroneous interpretation.

    The man was not arrested because of image recognition software; he was arrested because a living, breathing human being picked him from a photo line up. The image recognition software was only utilized to provide a potential lead -- and the lead was properly checked out by human detectives.

    The only fault here is the misinterpretation made by the press and public.

    I am no fan of image recognition software but in this and previous cases it was indeed used properly by the police.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by FatPhil on Friday July 17 2020, @11:03AM

      by FatPhil (863) <{pc-soylent} {at} {asdf.fi}> on Friday July 17 2020, @11:03AM (#1022839) Homepage
      > human being picked him from a photo line up

      If there's one thing you can rely on about eye-witness evidence is that you can be pretty sure that you can't trust eye-witness evidence.
      --
      I know I'm God, because every time I pray to him, I find I'm talking to myself.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @11:08AM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @11:08AM (#1022840)

      and the lead was properly checked out by human detectives

      Except it wasn't. The police blindly trusted the computer that the suspect looked identical. At the very least they should have verified for themselves (then they would have seen it was a poor match), then check if the suspect had an alibi (people do have lookalikes), and only then they should have put him in a line-up.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @04:56PM (#1022963)

        yes, the vast majority (not a tiny minority like idiots and media whores like to say) cops are lazy, stupid, corrupt, seditious fucks who will gladly railroad anyone they think they can get away with railroading. a conviction is a conviction.giving them tools that give them a false sense of accuracy, or false leads, or excuses to frame people is beyond stupid and dangerous.

    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:55AM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday July 18 2020, @12:55AM (#1023155) Homepage Journal

      Lineups are notorious for being manipulated. I would like to see the photos used for the photo lineup. 37 white guys, 18 Asians, and one black guy - pick out the black suspect, alright?

      --
      The only reason for not believing in it (Marxism) is that it doesn't work. - Thomas Sowell
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by DannyB on Friday July 17 2020, @03:25PM (1 child)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 17 2020, @03:25PM (#1022919) Journal

    When:
    1. police say: YOU resemble the suspect
    AND
    2. you are black

    What police mean is: you resemble the suspect because you are black.

    (in some jurisdictions, the above may be true even if the suspect description is a white suspect. Being black means you resemble someone who would commit a crime. Because police academy racism training.)

    --
    This Christmas season is the most likely to see Missile Tow instead of large artillery pieces being toed.
    • (Score: 2) by Booga1 on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:36PM

      by Booga1 (6333) on Saturday July 18 2020, @01:36PM (#1023358)

      Being black means you resemble someone who would commit a crime.

      Oh! Oh! I know this one! Tell me if you've seen/heard any of the following:

        - He looks like a crook.
        - He looks like a thug.
        - He looks guilty.
        - You can just see it in his eyes/face.
        - They all look alike.
        - There's a reason they're the suspect.
        - You just know they did it.

      I have heard various people say each and every one of these at some point over the years.

      Anecdote time... A few years ago a friend of mine witnessed a guy in a truck yell obscenities at a pedestrian. As the guy in the truck drove away, he threw an object heavy/sharp enough to knock the pedestrian down and draw blood. My friend stayed on hand and the cops were fast enough on the scene that they caught the suspect. My friend was still there when the cops brought the suspect by in the back of a police car. The cops asked my friend "Is this the guy you saw?" My friend said "I think so." The cop said, "Are you sure?" My friend said, "Well, not really sure. I can't say 100% it's that guy." The cop replied, "Thank you for being honest. A lot of people double down and say they are sure, even when they aren't."

      Eye witnesses aren't flawless, and this tool is just one more thing that's pushing people to say "That's the guy!" Now they've got extra "proof" because "the computer said so!"

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @10:01PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 17 2020, @10:01PM (#1023092)

    Has he proven he is innocent? Statistically speaking, Blacks are criminals so it would be more accurate to say "innocent of this particular crime at this time".

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2020, @06:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 18 2020, @06:26PM (#1023447)

      I think this needs to be said explicitly, rather than implied with a moderation: you're a violent fucker, with murder in your heart. That your parents or guardians raised you to be able to emit such a thing is proof of their absolute failure as human beings.

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