EU fines VW and BMW £750m for colluding with Daimler on fumes:
The EU has fined Volkswagen and BMW €875m (£750m) after finding that the German carmakers colluded with another rival, the Mercedes-Benz owner Daimler, to delay emissions-cleaning technology.
The European Commission said that the carmakers had "breached EU antitrust rules by colluding on technical development in the area of nitrogen oxide cleaning".
Volkswagen, the world's largest manufacturer of cars, will pay €502m, a reduction of more than half the original fine because it cooperated with the investigation. BMW will pay €372m, far lower than the provision for well over €1bn that it had initially made. Daimler escaped without a fine because it had revealed the cartel to the commission.
The fines are the latest blow to the German car industry in relation to diesel pollution, after the "Dieselgate" cheating scandal, in which Volkswagen and Daimler were found to have added software, known as defeat devices, that during testing deliberately reduced emissions during testing of nitrogen oxides harmful to human health. Volkswagen and Daimler have both paid out billions of euros in fines and compensation.
(Score: 3, Informative) by HammeredGlass on Friday July 09 2021, @05:47PM (49 children)
The emissions standards that had been thrown on diesel engines was a terrible overreach. The mileage successes they achieved from their products was well worth emissions that were perfectly fine a few years ago.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @06:06PM (31 children)
Diesel does not belong in passenger cars. It's dirty (soot particles and nitrogen oxides) and suited to slow acceleration vehicles that require high torque at low rpms to get their heavy asses moving and that don't require great acceleration once moving. That is a hard requirement of trucks. High mileage is of greater benefit for trucks because they spend A LOT of time on the road.
The pollution controls kind of kill diesel's advantages which is why it is best restricted to trucks where the standards wouldn't have to be as strict b/c only a smallish year percentage of vehicles are emitting (trucks).
This is not how the EU or the US decided to go.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @06:11PM (10 children)
Fewer people = fewer cars = fewer emissions. So if the US and EU were serious about emissions, they'd finance population control measures.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @06:33PM (7 children)
No need. Americans and Euros have been failing to replace themselves for decades. Were it not for importing poor, non-white foreigners, their populations would have already fallen. Population growth is not a problem with Americans and Europeans.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @06:35PM (2 children)
Oh, I see, you mean America and Europe ought to finance population control measures also for OTHER COUNTRIES. That oversteps their boundaries.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @07:02PM (1 child)
>> That oversteps their boundaries.
It's called "White Man's Burden".
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @08:41PM
damn, cracker ass crackers!
https://thewatchtowers.org/first-contact-seeing-white-man-for-the-first-time-video/ [thewatchtowers.org]
(Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday July 09 2021, @09:15PM (3 children)
Here's an interesting idea: you want more white babies, vote for the "socialists" (actually plain ol' Nordic social democrats) like Sanders. A lot of white people aren't having kids because the standard of living for them will be, politely put, rather lower than what they and their parents knew. To put it gently. Notice the emphasis on "importing" *poor* foreigners? Yeah.
Hopefully that makes a few deserving peoples' heads explode, but I doubt it. It's really too bad Covid is so transmissible, because it would make a good Darwin award in motion if it didn't kill innocents...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @01:51AM (2 children)
Our law has also made it extremely risky for a job holding white male to engage in mating behavior.
And we are no longer needed after the act.
Few of us can provide the after-maternity benefits our government can provide.
IMHO, population replenishment is the realm of the lower classes who aren't doing something more economically productive, that is, making someone else a lot of money.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday July 10 2021, @03:12AM
Prettttty sure it's just you and people like you who can't attract a mate. The workplace is for work, not flirting.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday July 10 2021, @06:20AM
On the contrary, your law doesn't do enough to protect the workers against the greed of employers.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @09:55PM
(Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Saturday July 10 2021, @01:52PM
Good education, healthcare, relieving poverty and Women's Lib are key to population control. Draconian measures are not necessary.
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 4, Insightful) by lars on Friday July 09 2021, @06:50PM (14 children)
Carbon is the problem we are facing now, diesel cars output about half per mile traveled. A gallon of diesel gets you twice as far as a gallon of gas, it's silly we are still using gas cars. NOx used to be a problem in the late 80s before we got catalytic converters. I'm sure soot is an issue, but it's not like it will kill the planet as carbon emissions will.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @07:14PM (1 child)
No problem, just buy some carbon credits from Al Gore and you're good.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @12:12AM
Al Gore invented carbon. And credits.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 09 2021, @08:25PM (2 children)
But all-diesel sickens the humans by dirtying the air at ground level where they breathe. Much bigger and more immediate danger than CO2.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @02:22AM (1 child)
Most of that is on how you drive a Diesel.
Just for fun, I have instrumented my Diesel with particulate sensors ( laser beam in the tailpipe sensitive to minute changes in opacity) and have noted by *far* my emissions were heightened by forced acceleration. That is, trying to keep up with the zooz-zooms after being legally compelled to waste all of my kinetic energy at often times very poorly timed traffic signals ( technology similar to Ford's old spark timing before Kettering introduced timing technologies that administered the spark when all the mechanical components were in the right place), and trying to accelerate to freeway speeds on metered freeway onramps. Once I have passed all the mandatory things that mandate velocity change, i run very clean, tailpipe emissions mostly oxygen and CO2. Some NO2 if I am turboing it and the temperatures are high. This appears to be the same NO2 that is formed in the clouds as a result of atmospheric electrostatic energy during thunderstorms, or in cling in clothes dryers.
Plants love this stuff as most plants, except legumes, cannot get their nitrogen, ( required to make proteins) from the air. Its the "N" in NPK fertilizer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @06:41PM
Dude, I drive a gasoline vehicle, and I burn far less gas (and therefore emit less pollutants) when I am cruising on the open highway too. ALL ICE vehicles work this way. It's not particular to diesel. Under those conditions, you are just supplying enough power to overcome friction to maintain your momentum.
(Score: 1) by TheMightyChickadee on Friday July 09 2021, @09:46PM (5 children)
Catalytic converters, for NOx? You just lost all credibility. You need to pee in your diesel exhaust! Blue urea! Makes ammonia!
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday July 09 2021, @10:25PM (1 child)
Can I sell it to the squeegee guys at the stop light? Tell 'em it's Windex
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @03:04AM
I wish someone would make a nox->nh4 converter that ran on pee.
Only God knows how precious aqueous soluble Nitrogen is to plants and how eager we are to simply flush it down the toilet.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @12:18AM (2 children)
It's annoying when people attack others' posts without explaining. Could you please explain what you mean?
A quick search shows that catalytic converters reduce NOx, so maybe I'm misunderstanding your "you just lost all credibility" comment?
Down near the bottom (this link should take you there):
http://www.meca.org/technology/technology-details?id=5&name=Catalytic%20Converters#:~:text=Catalytic%20Converters%20-%20Non-Selective%20Catalytic%20Reduction%20System&text=For%20proper%20operation%20of%20a,in%20nitrogen%20and%20carbon%20dioxide. [meca.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @01:45PM (1 child)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter#Diesel_engines [wikipedia.org]
Read that. Catalytic converters have nothing to do with NOx.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @02:53PM
Thanks for the link and info, but you're doing what so many seem to do online: lumping things in a pile and then making sweeping generalizations. Or perhaps you didn't actually read the whole section, or perhaps didn't understand what you linked.
Case in point: your linked page says that certain specific diesel catalysts don't help with NOx, but then goes on to talk about using urea (DEF) injected into the exhaust so that the catalytic converter in fact DOES reduce NOx.
I wonder what would happen if a gasoline engine type catalytic converter was used after the diesel exhaust converter. Might need some air injection...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday July 10 2021, @06:23AM
Not an issue unless you fucking with the engine/injection specifically. Or drive a very old and worn out engine.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Informative) by Rich on Saturday July 10 2021, @01:08PM
Diesel has longer alkane chains than gasoline, meaning more carbon (-> CO2) and less hydrogen (-> H2O) in relation. For an equal energy content of fuel, diesel will produce more CO2. Diesel is also denser, so for an equal volume of fuel, it contains more energy. Historic diesel engines were more efficient because of their higher compression. Modern engines are all direct-injected (which overcomes the pre-detonation problem with fuel-air mixtures at high compression), so gasoline engines have caught up in efficiency. But they have also inherited the soot problem, which means modern DI gas engines need to have particulate filters.
Bottom line, there is little difference in total emissions between diesel and gasoline with modern engines, it's just that diesel gets more miles per gallon, because it is denser.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @01:43PM
You should read and understand what catalytic converters actually do instead of writing bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter#Diesel_engines [wikipedia.org]
The entire problem is that VW and the rest have manipulated the system so that the urea was not added correctly to reduce the NOx. This was done so that cars do not need it added between regular servicing intervals. VW wanted not to 'inconvenience' their customers. They *also* cheated and run the engines too lean to minimize fuel usage and fuck over everyone with NOx emissions - you know, the ones that result in increased mortality from heart and lung disease.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Friday July 09 2021, @09:17PM (3 children)
I agree. And I drive a diesel.
Why? Because it's heaps cheaper. In every aspect. More MPG, cheaper fuel, cheaper maintenance. Ok, higher up front cost, but that's easily compensated if you only drive 1000 miles a year (and that car lasts 10 years, which modern cars easily can if you take care of them).
But yes, I agree. Make diesel more expensive... oh wait, no, you can't, because then trucks would get more expensive in operation. And we can't have our toys cost more 'cause transporting them to us costs more.
So I guess I'll continue to get cheap diesel fuel.
(Score: 2) by Opportunist on Friday July 09 2021, @09:19PM
Make that "only" into an "at least". Just noticed that it's quite possible to misunderstand that. Drive more than 1000 miles a year and you're easily even.
(Score: 2) by RS3 on Saturday July 10 2021, @12:22AM (1 child)
Railroads are much much more efficient than trucks. I'd like to see an 80% reduction in long-haul trucks and put stuff on rails. It would just take some logistics and coordinating with local trucking companies.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @06:47PM
America is already very efficient in its use of freight rail. World class, in fact. Where America "lags" certain highly populated, socialist-leaning countries is in passenger rail because people mostly don't care for it and it doesn't make economic sense compared to the benefits of personal transportation.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday July 10 2021, @06:16AM
Disagree. A well maintained diesel engine with urea additive in the fuel is as clean as a gasoline one. On a better fuel efficiency.
I no longer seek to let burn masks on the road when I'm starting from a traffic stop but I guarantee you nobody honks me from behind in my Hyundai i30, 1.6L Diesel. I'm doing about 4.8L/100km (49 mpg equiv) and I do have climb/descend parts.
https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSteveKeen https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Friday July 09 2021, @06:22PM
And that makes monopoly collusion okay??
Impeach Donald Palpatine and his sidekick Elon Vader
(Score: 4, Touché) by Tork on Friday July 09 2021, @06:38PM (10 children)
Lying about it wasn't.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Saturday July 10 2021, @03:51PM (9 children)
Lying to a corrupt govt. isn't a crime.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Saturday July 10 2021, @07:24PM (8 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Sunday July 11 2021, @11:20PM (7 children)
"Don't blame other people if you were a sucker." - P.T. Barnum
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 12 2021, @06:19AM (6 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Monday July 12 2021, @06:46PM (5 children)
To measure the emissions of my ride, I check to see whether your mother is smoking menthols this month or not. It's gonna be sad when Biden bans those.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday July 12 2021, @06:51PM (4 children)
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Monday July 12 2021, @11:43PM (3 children)
Fuck particulate emissions like I fucked your mom! The idea of being tied to an electrical grid for automotive travel is a horrifying prospect, and you don't find it so, then end your bloodline here and now and do not curse this world with any more cogmen.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by Tork on Monday July 12 2021, @11:48PM (2 children)
Heh. After your lil error there how insulting is any of that supposed to be?
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2, Interesting) by HammeredGlass on Tuesday July 13 2021, @02:42PM (1 child)
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0149885 [plos.org]
(Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday July 13 2021, @03:09PM
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Friday July 09 2021, @07:43PM (4 children)
Yeah well, cigarettes were perfectly fine too, now we know better.
Overreach or not, orders are orders
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by HammeredGlass on Saturday July 10 2021, @03:56PM (3 children)
No one ever believed that smoking was healthy.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday July 10 2021, @07:50PM (2 children)
Maybe not since the middle 60s. Apparently you never saw the old ads
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 10 2021, @11:27PM (1 child)
Kind of how marijuana is now marketed as a healing smokable herb.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Saturday July 10 2021, @11:37PM
Definitely a good sleep aid...
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..