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posted by martyb on Wednesday September 29 2021, @07:39PM   Printer-friendly [Skip to comment(s)]
from the can-you-top-this? dept.

Physicists may have cracked the case of “Zen” stones balanced on ice pedestals:

Visit the Small Sea of Lake Baikal in Russia during the winter and you'll likely see an unusual phenomenon: a flat rock balanced on a thin pedestal of ice, akin to stacking Zen stones common to Japanese gardens. The phenomenon is sometimes called a Baikal Zen formation. The typical explanation for how these formations occur is that the rock catches light (and heat) from the Sun and this melts the ice underneath until just a thin pedestal remains to support it. The water under the rock refreezes at night, and it's been suggested that wind may also be a factor.

Now, two French physicists believe they have solved the mystery of how these structures form, according to a new paper published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences—and their solution has nothing to do with the thermal conduction of the stone. Rather, they attribute the formation to a phenomenon known as sublimation, whereby snow or ice evaporates directly into vapor without passing through a water phase. Specifically, the shade provided by the stone hinders the sublimation rates of the surrounding ice in its vicinity, while the ice further away sublimates at a faster rate.

Many similar formations occur naturally in nature, such as hoodoos (tall, spindly structures that form over millions of years within sedimentary rock), mushroom rocks or rock pedestals (the base has been eroded by strong dusty winds), and glacier tables (a large stone sitting precariously on top of a narrow pedestal of ice). But the underlying mechanisms by which they form can be very different.

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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @11:02PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 29 2021, @11:02PM (#1182966)

    When I was a kid (pre Internet) there was plenty of time to go outside and daydream. There were a few stream banks or road cuts where I observed that there would often be rocks perched on a column of mud. The soil was thick clay. I kind of assumed that compressed clay didn't dissolve as much as uncompressed clay, and also the rocks sheltered the underlying soil from direct rain. They were still doomed to fall, it was just going to take more time. The columns never got very high, but they were noticeable. I might have guessed that compressed ice was somehow stronger than uncompressed ice too.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:28PM (#1183096)

      I would say that, in your case, the compression seems more likely.

      It seems reasonable to assume (and then science!) that the ice is affected by that as well to some degree.

      That said, shade was the first thing that I thought of, though admittedly I immediately second guessed myself as rocks are darker than ice and so I figured the "shade" would actually make for more melting.

      This is why science has wild speculation as the second step (immediately after the WTF?! step), but conclusions aren't reached until you test them.

      WTF? --wild speculation-> hypothesis --testing-> conclusion --adversarial testing-> theory

  • (Score: 2) by fishybell on Thursday September 30 2021, @02:24AM (2 children)

    by fishybell (3156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday September 30 2021, @02:24AM (#1183010)

    They didn't explain -- nor apparently does anyone else -- how the stones ended up on the ice.

    Are there that many people just throwing stones onto frozen lakes that eventually we found a lake with the propensity to cause the "Zen" stones? Do that many stones just get tossed onto the lake from the beaches? They're always super smooth stones that look like they've spent decades in the water, so how'd they end up on top of the frozen lake in the winter?

    • (Score: 1, Offtopic) by Freeman on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:48PM (1 child)

      by Freeman (732) on Thursday September 30 2021, @01:48PM (#1183098) Journal

      In the event that you believe in the biblical Flood, it's not terribly hard to imagine how they got there. In the event that you believe at some point in history there was a great flood of some sort, then you also don't have to wonder how they got there. []

      Genesis flood narrative
      Main article: Genesis flood narrative

      The Genesis flood narrative is encompassed within chapters 6–9 in the Book of Genesis, in the Bible.[3] The narrative indicates that God intended to return the Earth to its pre-Creation state of watery chaos by flooding the Earth because of humanity's misdeeds and then remake it using the microcosm of Noah's ark. Thus, the flood was no ordinary overflow but a reversal of Creation.[4] The narrative discusses the evil of mankind that moved God to destroy the world by the way of the flood, the preparation of the ark for certain animals, Noah, and his family, and God's guarantee (the Noahic Covenant) for the continued existence of life under the promise that he would never send another flood.[5] []

      Megafloods are paleofloods (past floods) that involved rates of water flow larger than those in the historical record. They are studied through the sedimentary deposits and the erosional and constructional landforms that individual megafloods have created. Floods that are known to us through historical descriptions are mostly related to meteorological events, such as heavy rains, rapid melting of snowpacks, or combination of these. In the geological past of the Earth, however, geological research has shown that much larger events have occurred.[3] In the case of outburst floods, such floods are typically linked to the collapse of a barrier which formed a lake.

      Also, weird stuff, because people do stuff: [] []

      I'd guess, probably not put there by humans, though.

      Forced Microsoft Account for Windows Login → Switch to Linux.
      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @06:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday September 30 2021, @06:55PM (#1183155) the hell does that even remotely answer the question