On October 1st, 2021, HexChat version 2.16.0 was released along with a, "help wanted" plea from the developer.
This release also comes with some bad news; The HexChat project has been undermaintained for quite a while now. I've been involved with this project since I was a high school student but that is long past and I simply don't have the time to dedicate to it any longer. The Windows builds in particular are very draining and in a poor state which has kept smaller releases from happening more frequently. If anybody out there doesn't mind building things on Windows or wants to help with maintainance contact @TingPing on Libera.Chat.
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HexChat IRC Client Developer Reaches Out for Help
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(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @01:29PM (18 children)
Abandon windows.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @05:22PM
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @05:56PM (16 children)
Seriously. FOSS developers who support Windows and Mac are simply pimping their software out to pander to the masses under the guise of being nice. They really are just too scared to lose the larger numbers of users. Those users (in their current state) don't deserve libre or gratis software, and only ever drag the FOSS project down. The only software that has a moral obligation to be cross platform is proprietary software. FOSS should only support FOSS OS.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Sunday October 03 2021, @06:30PM (4 children)
I disagree. If switching operating systems means switching all your software at the same time, there's a huge disincentive to doing so. On the other hand, changing some program is an easy task: You can easily install the new program besides the one you're using so far, without complicated procedures like repartitioning your disk, and only get rid of the old program after you find yourself no longer using it. And the more Free/Open Source Software you are using on your proprietary operating system, the easier it will be later to switch to an open OS with the very same software available.
Now you might say that the same effect would be achieved by having Linux ports of all relevant proprietary software. Which is true except for the fact that many proprietary vendors don't have much interest of porting their software to Linux. They might if more people were using Linux, but that's a hen/egg problem.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @06:53PM (2 children)
i don't care about making it easy for people who are ok with proprietary software to move over anymore. They need to learn to respect their own freedom and learn a little about computers, or just stay on the digital plantation. Don't need more willing slaves ruining FOSS OSes indirectly by whorish FOSS devs pandering to them.
When all the good/real/respectful software is FOSS OS compat only, capable users with the need will learn to choose correctly. If they don't i don't care.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @08:38PM (1 child)
The vast majority of developers make a living working on closed source software. Always been the case, always will be.
Nobody is making a living working on hexchat. That's one of the reasons the guy is asking for help - there's no money in it so he doesn't have the time to continue working on it for free pretty much by himself. He has other preoccupations.
And lets be honest - most open source software sitting in the average distribution's repositories is pretty shitty (games, for example) or abandonware.
You can't even give it away for free. Still waiting for the year of linux on the desktop? The closest to that was chromebooks - google spyware. So much for freedom. Fortunately, chromebooks are on the way out, being thoroughly beaten by ipads, etc.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday October 04 2021, @03:58PM
By that extension, most windows programs are equally horrific.
Something like https://koha-community.org/ [koha-community.org] is a good example of a FOSS project done right. Libraries that were paying for support are still paying for support. Yet, anyone with expertise and/or time can make use of the fully functional software. What is being paid for is the maintenance.
Microsoft Word, doesn't need maintenance, neither does LibreOffice, or even something like GIMP. Beyond a few normal bug fixes anyway. LibreOffice and GIMP are great FOSS projects, but are examples of programs that someone would either expect to pay a one time fee or get for free. Not need an annual service contract for support.
There are tons of FOSS programs that are given away for free that people make good use of. There are also Closed Source programs that are given away for free that people rely on.
The problem isn't that Linux couldn't work, it's that the philosophy behind Linux doesn't revolve around an uninformed user. I could see a version of Linux that was both user friendly and had the same level or better support than Microsoft Windows. The biggest issue is people's natural resistance to change. Thus, switching from Windows (something the know) to Linux (something the don't know), is a huge problem and the average user pays (Microsoft/Apple) for their ignorance.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 1) by MikeVDS on Monday October 04 2021, @03:57PM
In general, you're correct, however if you use IRC and are switching from Win to Lin, you're technically savvy enough that this client won't mater at all. It's going to be less techy users, or software that drastically alters your workflow, like MSOffice to Libre.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Tork on Sunday October 03 2021, @06:35PM (10 children)
I think most would agree that Open Source and elitism do not mix well.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @06:59PM (4 children)
Nothing elitist about it. if you are such a willing slave that you won't learn how to burn an iso and run a gui installer (for free) you don't deserve a FOSS OS. freedom requires responsibility and every man's freedom is his own responsibility.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @08:47PM (3 children)
And most of the programs in the average repo are shit.
Who cares if you have a dozen IRC programs for linux when the vast majority of people have never used irc, and never will. texting, instant messaging, and proprietary programs have killed irc.
"burn an iso!" You make me laugh. You're as obsolete as RMS.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:10PM (2 children)
my laptop still has a real ethernet port and a boot-rom for it ...
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:02PM (1 child)
Face it - hexchat can become abandonware because small open source projects have no way to financially support developers on a stable basis. This has always been an issue. In the past it was at least partly mitigated by developers wanting to have a way to build street cred that would impress employers.
Times have changed. Employers are struggling to find workers in all fields. And work on an open source project hardly aligns with companies who want app developers or game developers or whatever. Companies are no longer willing to put up with floss zealots getting in the way of real work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @07:55PM
You're as mentally lazy as the strawman FOSS devs you are criticizing. There are many ways to make money on FOSS and FOSS is used in many places besides consumer bullshit.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @09:25PM (3 children)
What's it like knowing that your elitist St Ignucious is now a pariah?
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Monday October 04 2021, @08:02AM (2 children)
If you think that's only a problem of Open Source, you're delusional. Indeed, it's not even restricted to software. “You're holding it wrong”, remember?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by Tork on Monday October 04 2021, @04:33PM
No.
🏳️🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️🌈
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday October 04 2021, @09:31PM
They are real numbers. They're just not the real numbers.
Aren't natural languages weird!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:51PM
Hold my beer.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @01:58PM (31 children)
Too bad there's no way to fork it and charge for the modified version. Oh well, maybe he can develop a version from scratch for the various app stores.
Other "usual ideas"? He could create the XChat Foundation (give me a break). Sell support. (a chat program that needs paid support is not going to be used). Patreon begging bowl. Solicit funds to add features, bug fixes (reverse bounties). Or just leave it and see who picks it up/forks it.
The old idea of building up credibility with potential employers is long gone. Easier and more relevant to just show them a few apps. And with the shortage of all sorts of labour including developers, and all those shortages now baked into the economy for the next decade (increasing retirement rates, increasing demand, etc) most people just don't have the free time to contribute, especially when there are so many needs for them to contribute labour in their own community (and get away from the keyboard and interact with real people).
This is just following the path RMS set - he hasn't contributed to emacs in almost 2 decades - it's dead. Look in the average linux repo at all the dead projects.
The greying of the greybeards is going to see more of the same.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @02:09PM (1 child)
Yeah the people who could contribute to open source projects aren't doing so because they're too busy with their community service regiment.
(Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @05:16PM
Putting those spare moments into XChat is really low priority in comparison.
(Score: 3, Informative) by negrace on Sunday October 03 2021, @02:23PM (12 children)
Stop spreading lies. You can fork and charge money for your fork under GPL.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @02:38PM (1 child)
There's even a precedent for FOSS IRC clients to charge money for the Windows version, while the Linux port stayed freely dstributable, knowing that 99.9999% of Windows users can't do a thing with them complimicated programming files.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Marand on Sunday October 03 2021, @02:49PM
The irony here being that the most notable example of this was X-Chat, and Hexchat was one of the projects that undermined the business model by providing free Windows builds. X-Chat eventually got abandoned partly as a result of it, and now its killer finds difficulty doing the same thing years later.
I used both for a while, but moved on to weechat. More features overall, plus being terminal based was more convenient because it makes it easier to use remotely. And its relay client mode is useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @04:11PM (9 children)
Only if your fork replaces any gpl code with new proprietary code (or uses the lgpl exception for libraies. But writing for a different platform is easier to do from scratch anyway in most cases.
Unless all the gpl code is yours, in which case you can either dual license it or just stop sopporting the free version.
Or redo it from scratch in java. Or your other poison of the week.
But in the end who cares? It's not like there's not other chat programs. Some of them will disappear from simple attrition.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @04:25PM (8 children)
False. I can compile and sell any gpl software I want as long as I don't use a trademarked name and provide source code on request. Selling gpl apps to windows users is easy because most casnot figure out how to compile.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @05:10PM (7 children)
And if you DO make modifications, you have to give them the source if they ask, so what's to stop them from selling it for 1/10 or 1/100 the price, or even giving it away? Nothing. This is one of the failure modes I was referring to - RMS said you could try to sell it, which is true, but you can't prevent others from undercutting you after the first sale. So it doesn't really work in the real world.
Reality bites - and it has sharp teeth.
Long term, projects need MONEY to survive. For most developers, they can't make enough on FLOSS to justify the work when real-life considerations intrude. But hey, big talker, if it's such an easy path to success, why not tell him? Or do it yourselff?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @07:56PM (6 children)
The billion dollar RedHat disagrees with your assessment of selling FOSS software. And don't underestimate business managers. For the longest time they didn't trust software you can download for free. That's a security risk because . . . hackers or something. MS did a great job with their FUD campaign to scare managers and companies into thinking that FOSS was insecure, illegal, and/or immoral, or having them think that if they even think of downloading GPL software, they will be forced at gunpoint to publicly release every piece of software they've ever written for free!!!
You have a very myopic view of the world, I'm afraid. It is true that someone would have a very hard time selling an identical FOSS package for money, or selling enough to be worthwhile, but if you take some piece of code that is a nightmare to compile because of dependency hell (like, pretty much ALL Python code! Relax, I jest, I jest), there is a viable business in selling pre-compiled versions of stuff to companies who don't want to dick around with compiling it, or fixing it when software libraries are updated. Take a company that wants to have pki-access, LDAP compatibility, etc., etc., and you offer them a configuration tool to set that stuff up for them, that's a good business model. I look at RStudio. I can download R for free, and even an IDE for it, and I can even download their desktop program for free, but if I was in a business where I employ more than a couple of data wranglers, I'd be happy dumping a pile of money on them for what they offer and the productivity they enable. There are plenty of software stories like this out there that fortunately were started with people with a much different view on business than you seem to have.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @09:05PM (5 children)
They don't make their money selling linux. Which should tell you that there's no money in selling open source software.
And the businesses that actually make money selling closed source operating systems utterly dwarf Redhat. For one reason - they run the software people want. When people think of games, they don't think Pingus or Tux Racer. When they think of buying a computer it's mostly Windows or OSX.
Most users would be better served woth a decade-old Windows or OSX than a brand new Linux. Even the FSF tacitly admitted this with their butt-hole campaign to try to get Microsoft to open source Windows 7.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:38PM (2 children)
Yes, Microsoft sells all that dwarfing software, that they have had to push out their own linux distro so that people would run all that dwarfed software on the MS servers, because nobody wanted to run it on their servers because they didn't sell the software that everybody wanted to run. (Hmmm. . . . . ). You would think there is more to software than Excel, and you'd be right if you thought that (but I don't think you really comprehend what software gets run besides Office).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:19PM (1 child)
Never used Microsoft Office. My preferred document format is plain text. And I prefer FreeBSD for real work. An operating system with a license that gives the independent developer far more freedom than the GPL.
I do a LOT of charity work - but will never work for free on software. Charity work helps those in need - most of the people pushing the "software wants to be free" bullshit have Windows machines "because games." Hypocrites. If you can afford a dsecond computer and screen, eyc., gaming subscriptions, plus the unlimited high speed internet, you aren't in need of charity. You just want shit for free. I won't lose any sleep over charging for my work.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @08:14PM
Free Software doesn't have to have anything to do with Gratis Software, lazy whore.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:05PM (1 child)
So wait, you're telling me that a billion dollar company whose business model depends upon, as well as makes their money off of, linux will tell me that you can't make money selling FOSS software? Wow, you are a regular modern day Clarance Darrow with those fancy arguments you make.
If you want to keep narrowing the argument to only whether you can make money by charging for software sitting on the gnu.org servers, then yes, please declare intellectual victory and walk into the sunset with a satisfied smile on your face (just ignore these guys [shoplinuxonline.com]). But if you want to argue that you can't make money using the FOSS model, then slither back under the ignorant rock from which you oozed because, as Wolfgang Pauli would say, that's not even wrong.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:39PM
That you pretend this is not the case shows just how dishonest and in bad faith your arguments are.
How much revenue does shoplinuxonline make? None from bootable cds and dvds - those are as obsolete as floppies. Bootable USBs? Seriously? Anyone with an internet connection can make their own, and if they don't have an internet connection, they can't access shoplinuxonline.
And tour quote of "that's not even wrong " is a non sequetur", like all your arguments. They're so bad they're not even wrong - they're obviously just nonsense.
But if I'm wrong, how come hexchat is dying? And has been in trouble, according to the maintainer, for years?
Because that's the topic of the article - that hexchat is in trouble for years wrt maintenance and development because the maintainer can only do it in his spare time because he has bills to pay and floss development is distracting from that.
Tell us why the maintainer is wrong. How his lived experience of 9 years is bs. Of how he should live the life of an ascetic and devote himself to the icult of the incel RMS, bumming rooms off people so he can develop free software, because anyone working on proprietary software is supposedly immoral and unethical.
BTW, Linus originally planned to charge for linux.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @04:34PM (14 children)
You clearly do not know what really is free software and even open source, you say things based on whatever political religion you follow and fail to see what is there.
- You can ALWAYS fork a free software project, that is one of the 4 base rules!
- You can modify it, as long your code follow the same licence
- You can sell it! hell, you can even only give the source for those that paid for it (some big techs do that, while morally isn't nice, legally is possible)
- Android store have several examples of free software or open source projects recompiled for android and with paid versions. They still have to provide the source, but how many people even know how to compile a simple program in android?
What you can't do is change the license, fail to provide the source code or mix closed source and free software or open source, unless the license say you can (like LGPL)
Dead project is a problem in all software, not related to free software or open source... just look to the graveyard of shareware tools and even big tech software... but with open source ones, someone can revive them at least
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @05:30PM (12 children)
Distribution over the internet? Bandwidth costs are pretty much zero - it will cost you more to process the 1 cent payment.
And the first person that pays for it will stick it on a server making it available for free and make money off of ads.
If your idea worked people would actually be doing it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @08:05PM (5 children)
No, you can sell it for whatever you want. I will gladly take $10,000 from you for the ssh source code, and I'll even send a bound hard copy of it to you. That is perfectly fine with the letter and spirit of the GPL. What you are think about is if I make changes to GPL code and I don't put it somewhere that is easy to get at, then if you ask me for the code, I have to provide it to you gratis, less reasonable shipping and handling costs. That is to prevent people from essentially stealing GPL code by using it as their software base, then refuse to release changes back by charging money to get it. However, there is nothing wrong with me selling GPL software for whatever I want to sell it for, but if you ask me for a copy for free, I am compelled to oblige.
You are so hung up on 1990s arguments against the GPL and FOSS in general. Quite a lot has changed over the last 25 years. You should check it out sometime.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @09:15PM (4 children)
Again, reality bites. Grow the fuck up. Because your argument is beyond childish.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:34PM (3 children)
You are quite the ignorant fuck. Probably the kind of person that would buy the source code for $10k, provided that it was renamed. You spew your ignorance with claims about what you can and can't do, and you are just simply too stupid to know that you are wrong. Perhaps nobody but you would purchase it from me for that much, but I am, contrary to your many ignorant claims, perfectly allowed to charge $10k or $100k for such software.
Hmmm, maybe you have too many of those Bill Gates nano chips in you because you do sound an awful lot like him in the 2000s. If that is the case, then I am sorry for your stupidity, but I at least understand it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @12:05AM (2 children)
You're the idiot. I'd write my own from scratch first. Because that's what my job as a software dev involves - writing proprietary software. And unlike the guy struggling to maintain hexchat, I always got paid for software development.
So who's the brain dead idiot? And no, a sale involves a buyer and a seller. You can't sell a copy of open source software for $100,000 because there's no buyer. An "offer to sell" or an "offer to deal" is not a sale, never has been, never will be. That's the law.
But again, why not try selling a copy of open source software for $100,000 like you claim and tell us how it works. It's like an offer to sell the moon - full of shit. Like you.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @05:09PM
So ignoring the insults between you two...
what you fail to understand is that 100k is just a example, the price depends of whatever is being sold...
a irc chat client... yep, lot of then, so a charge must be small
one advanced AI engine, with machine learning, already compiled and tunned for you business ... yep, many companies could pay 100k for it, even if GPL
Again, most oracle software (that is not the DB) is just open or free software repackaged, configured and ready to deploy... and it costs a lot, while all the source is available
IBM do the same thing and so redhat
big software is easier to sell, small software is always hard... how many copies of winzip were ever sold? too few, the devs had to sell the company to some venture that tried to milk it and found that there were just a few drops of milk. Free, Open or closed source doesn't matter, to sell you have to give anything that the user wants AND accept to pay that price for it
The developer is overloaded and sick of the program, a problem that happens in free software, but also in open source and even more in close source, as the 2 first can do it for the money or for their own like... while the later is mostly for the money and if there is no money, you get one more abandoware
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @08:18PM
as long as you understand you're business model is nothing but the slave trade and you a slave trader.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:08PM (5 children)
Not true, you can charge whatever you want. There are licenses that may have that clause, but GPL do not have anything about that... you are probably confusing that for requesting access to the source, you may be asked for postal charges... today, via internet this mostly do not apply, but in the past, sending a CD via snail mail would cost something and asking the developer to pay for sending 100 copies would be some money already... asking the requester user to pay for their postal fees was totally acceptable. But that is transport fees only, you can not ask 1 million dollars for sending the source
now if you request a very high price, sure, someone will repost the source as free sooner or later... but for and acceptable price, people will see it as support the developer and many projects that do this, they themself post the source free (but you have to compile it) and get the compiled version for a price. you choose what you want
But no, asking 1million dollars for a GPL program will not work... unless you really only want to sell 1 or 2 times...if it is big and powerful enough, you go instead for the support payment
go read https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html [gnu.org]
>If your idea worked people would actually be doing it.
well, go talk with redhat, canonical, ibm, oracle, even microsft them!
they do exactly that, they sell open source and free software (yes, even GPL) and you have the source available... hell, oracle picked up redhat sources and resold then with very few changes!
pdfcreator is opensouce, but most people only know about their paid or freeware versions
You also have many software with dual license, so you can use the free one or the paid one to be able to include it in other software (like QT)
For bigger software, it is easier to ask a price for support or "enterprise" features
For small ones, well, you will have to ask a low price, or more common, ask for donations or patreon support
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:51PM (4 children)
> you can charge whatever you want.
Can't change the license to non-gpl. Unlike the much freer FreeBSD license, which you can change to whatever you want. So your statement is demonstrably and objectively false.
So anyone who uses FreeBSD-licensed code can even have two licenses - a free version and a paid version, just for the software, with extra premium features, and a third revenue stream for customization and support.
RMS might or might not be dead (who knows? Who cares?) but he IS gone. If this sounds reminiscent of what RMS said about Steve Job's death, its because I'm enjoying the schadenfreude (after all, that's what schadenfreude is for).
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @06:02AM
sorry, typo, i meant charge, not change... sorry!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @04:44PM (2 children)
So bypassing the fact about the chaRge vs chaNge difference, you can also have dual license for gpl, that is not different.
The difference is that in BSD, you can change the license from open to close, but in GPL you can only do that if all the code owners agree to do it... that is why some companies require to give the ownership of the code to them, even if gpl... so if later is needed some license change, they can do it.
Many companies sell paid (open or closed source) apps and have free software GPL available, its just a matter of planing...
Saying one is more free than the other, is a matter of perspective:
- GPL is more free for the end user, as it guarantees that it keeps free (open source) and can not be later closed.
- BSD is more free for the developers, as they can take other people code and put it in their closed source program and never give anything back.
If both are always open and never go to close source, they are basically the same, it just a different color/team/religion.
While RMS is far from perfect and i may not even agree with him in several issues, i fail to understand why many BSD people hate him so much... ohh well
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @07:25PM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 05 2021, @04:47PM
fine, you can not officially change the license for those lines, but when you place it inside any other licensed code, you really are adding another license, the new code globally will have that license with parts with dual license. In closed source licenses, you will never have that bsd source available again, you just "know" that it is based in bsd code... if not, show-me the BSD code windows and Mac took and merged on their own OS... With the newer BSD license, you don't even have to acknowledge the BSD code, you can silently merge it and that is
So in real world, you change the license, as the dual license is never applied again...
But what you can never change is the copyright, claiming that bsd code is ours is crime
(Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Monday October 04 2021, @09:40PM
None of those constraints apply to the copyright owner.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:07PM
Sorry, I just fell out of bed, nursing my first cup of coffee. But, history?
Hexchat is the fork. Xchat came first. At some point in time, they started charging for Xchat, which pissed a lot of people off, so Hexchat was forked from it. https://github.com/orgs/hexchat/people [github.com] There are 12 people involved in the development of Hexchat - can't say who among them were the early RMS devotees involved in forking Hexchat. 12 people . . . is that enough to keep a project like Hexchat going? Maybe I should join the team to make it lucky 13?
Hmmm - Xchat is still set up as I remember. Windows versions are shareware, which works free for a month, then you have to pay for it - $20.00. However, the source code is available, and you can compile it for free. Linux has always been free. Ugh - looking at the download page, it's all Win32? No AMD64? http://xchat.org/files/binary/ [xchat.org] So if you're running 64 bit windows, you use the 32 bit or compile it yourself.
Someone with a better memory and/or time on their hands can dive deeper into the history, but I repeat - Hexchat is the fork.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by looorg on Sunday October 03 2021, @03:12PM (2 children)
I had not even heard of HexChat before this. Looks interesting or possibly more interesting is that it looks just like every other IRC client out there. What makes it special or better then the others? In some regard IRC clients have more or less apparently looked the same for 30+ years now. Was it perfection of design on inception? It's hard to tell all the clients apart if one just doesn't read the title row of the clients. There is the channel list, the chat window and the user list and that is it -- same locations, about the same look etc. None really offers settings or options that the others wont have or implement instantly if they become popular.
I guess it might be simplicity at work, they got it right at the start and then just never changed. The people that liked change and couldn't get used to IRC went to Discord etc.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday October 03 2021, @11:21PM
Yes, and no. In some respects, all interactive chat rooms are going to look very much the same. The features that people want and expect are mostly going to follow the same format on the desktop. Form follows function, or something like that. Yet, some of the clients distinguish themselves. mIRC used to have a huge following, because millions of people insisted it was the best. All Windows users, of course, mIRC never released anything for *nix, nor do I think there was ever a macOS version.
Most of the draw of mIRC was eye candy. It's pretty as can be, and is probably even prettier on Win10 and 11.
Now that I've mocked the vast majority of Windows users and IRC users in one paragraph - I'll point out that Hexchat is highly configurable, and is quite pretty even on low resource *nix desktops that aren't known for being pretty. Hexchat works the same, and can be made to look the same, on any platform, Windows, BSD, or whatever. And, there's a macOS version called Hexchat Azure. (Azure has run into a problem, Apple doesnt' like their name, and they are changing to Aqua.)
Other clients kinda look like crap, or maybe look good on one platform, but look like crap on another. Hexchat can be installed on every computer you use, at work, at home, or wherever, and you can make it look the same on all of them, no matter the underlying platform.
You may have gathered by now that I'm a fan of Hexchat. Not a highly dedicated fan - I'm not sending them $1,000/month for development. But, you'll find Hexchat on every computer I own, run, or administer.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday October 04 2021, @04:05PM
'eh, I recently got on Discord, because it's a ubiquitous platform to chat with my gaming buddies. But, also, due to the fact that it's the go-to place for everything Dungeon Defenders. Not the official channel, but Dungeon Defenders Runs and Giveaways (DDRnG). Community support has made Dungeon Defenders a unique gem of a game. Even without the Community Development Team, it would have been a great game. The CDT turned a great game into one of my top ten games of all time. They added a ton of content, pretty much everything that is the "Lost Quests" and there is a ton of content there. It does suffer a bit, if you don't have a friend to play with. Though, you can game with random people and meet lots of interesting people. You can also kick the trolls/anyone from your game.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @04:15PM (1 child)
I was a HexChat user when I was still using Windows. In Linux (GUI) I always had some built-in client, it was usually quite too multi-window or too unconfigurable, but still OK.
However, if I see when I launched this program, I find that it was... a month ago?
The thing is that, to be honest, IRC is in a fall now. It is in the stage when some people who started with it use it for the nostalgia, some geeks use it as they always used it, but influx of new users is really small. Most of channels are quite empty, with bots periodically pinging and reporting things for nobody.
IRC was kind of... plug and play. You just logged in and started the chat. Meanwhile modern solutions don't see you as user, but as the material for processing.
The widely advertised alternative, "Matrix", requires lots of personal data with no data processing guidelines and no clear identification of data security admin which is in many countries required by law. And while setting IRC server in this old PC in the basement was simple, here it's so difficult and requiring almost a separate server room that I slowly think it was made intentional to hold the material in the main server.
Yes, I'm still talking about this material, as in modern Internet we are not the users anymore. We are material - companies are the new users, and their customers are shareholders.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @06:13PM
For most people, chat has been replaced by (a) texting, and (b) built in chat on whatever web site they're on and (c) twitter/facebook.
The only one on that list I use is texting.
IRC chat is pretty much dead, the last time I used it was back in the noughts. Phone me (don't have my number? Too bad so sad), text me (again, don't have my number, then I consider that a feature), don't have my email (no web sites have it, and I like not getting spam).
Good luck data mining me.
It's not just the $15 a month each that Facebook and Google make selling your data - it's the $200-$300 a month that the several hundred entities they sell it to that you have to consider. By keeping your shi private you're depriving the spyware economy of about $5,000 a year. With that sort of money at stake, they can damn well give free unlimited internet or go fuck themselves.
Plus by not supplying eyeballs you're also depriving the "influencers" of money.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 03 2021, @10:19PM (3 children)
i still think "twitter" is a reverse version of IRC ... that is a user joining IRC becomes a channel people can join.
hmmm... maybe if you reverse engineer the original twitter "server" code you will see something like this *scratch head*.
(*) it's ded (for some) 'cause it's not profit driven?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04 2021, @12:13AM (2 children)
It's mostly nostalgia-driven. Unfortunately the good old days were, in retrospect, not all that good. Which is why irc chat, like dvd burners, are obsolete.
If someone wanted me to joun them on irc, I'd laugh at them. Most people would just look at them funny after they explained what they meant, before saying no.
(Score: 2) by Freeman on Monday October 04 2021, @04:10PM (1 child)
IRC is useful, because it's simple and free. Discord is free, but it is not simple. By simple I mean in design, etc. Discord is made to chat with friends, via text, emoji, and voice. It's kinda bloated. Whereas something like IRC, is a "simple" text chat program.
Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"
(Score: 2) by Pino P on Tuesday October 05 2021, @02:34AM
Discord isn't exactly free either. The desktop and mobile clients are proprietary software, and the web client uses proprietary JavaScript. The service also has a record of permanently suspending accounts of users of free reimplemented clients for "self-botting".