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posted by janrinok on Monday November 15 2021, @08:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the Jupiter-eye-candy dept.

NASA's Juno Captures Jupiter Photo So Gorgeous You'll Swear It's Fake:

Jupiter is one of the most daunting planets in our Solar System, and thanks to the continually impressive work of Juno, NASA just shared a truly jaw-dropping photo. Considering most people won't ever get the chance to visit outer space for themselves, images from NASA and other organizations are extremely important. While it's difficult to convey the vastness of space in words alone, a picture from Perseverance, Hubble, or another instrument makes things much easier.

There are regular examples of this all the time. You could read an article about a massive aurora engulfing the Earth, but seeing a picture of its unfathomable beauty is that much more impactful. The same is true of all the Mars exploration happening right now. It's one thing to read about the planet having vast dunes and peculiar rocks, but to see actual pictures of these things is completely different. Whether it be for educational purposes or a passing interest, these photos are most people's gateway to the Milky Way and beyond.

NASA uploaded its latest space picture on November 10 and, simply put, it's so good you'll probably think it's fake. What you're looking at above is an image of Jupiter, as captured by NASA's Juno spacecraft and edited by scientist Brian Swift. The photo was originally taken on September 2 while Juno was 16,800 miles above Jupiter's gassy atmosphere. Juno's been orbiting Jupiter since July 2016 to do exactly this. It orbits the planet, regularly uses its 'JunoCam' to capture high-quality pictures, and is entirely solar-powered despite receiving 25x less sunlight compared to Earth. It's not the most talked-about spacecraft in Nasa's portfolio, but it really is one of the most impressive.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @09:25PM (8 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @09:25PM (#1196474)

    These images from these robotic sensors don't convey the vastness of space, it is just the opposite. They remove the vastness of space so that you can see something up close. If you want to see the vastness of space, you not only need to look at something like the Hubble Deep Field [esahubble.org] image and see all of the galaxies, but then you need to give the audience some sort of reference, like how each tiny dot in that picture is a galaxy the size of our own, and then relate how much of a tiny part of the celestial sphere that image covers (1/30,000,000 th of the sky). And even that doesn't give you a sense of the vastness of space unless you can relate how big a galaxy actually is. The Royal Society recently tweeted out that during Carl Sagan's 1977 Christmas Lecture, he broadcast a message out to space. That message won't reach the galaxy closest to our own for another 2.5 million years, so the distance between those dots in that Hubble image are at least that far apart. For as smart a guy as Fermi was, to ask "where are they?" shows that even he didn't appreciate the size of the universe either.

    People cannot really wrap their heads around this because our minds are not set up that way.

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 15 2021, @11:01PM (7 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 15 2021, @11:01PM (#1196508) Journal

      For as smart a guy as Fermi was, to ask "where are they?" shows that even he didn't appreciate the size of the universe either.

      He appreciated more than that. There's the time factor too. In a million years, a star can experience several near passes from other stars. So over a vast enough time, like say a billion years, you can colonize the entire galaxy even if you're just hopping stars only when they're really close and doing so haphazardly.

      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @11:25PM (6 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @11:25PM (#1196516)

        You need technological civilizations that can survive over billions of years. You need technology that can survive thousands of years in space without repair. You can't pick up resources on the way because there aren't any. Fermi's counter-argument only makes sense if you have immortal beings with unlimited resources and who are mentally capable of very long periods of isolation. And the universe was much smaller back in his day, even in 1950; the existence of other galaxies wasn't even known when he was going through college and the universe was only 100,000 light years across. There's that other counter-argument that supposedly suggests that there can be no other life because if there were, someone would have made self-replicating robots and by the same Fermi argument, the universe would be overrun with them by now. Again, you need unbreakable robots because there are no resources to be had unless you can harvest one proton per cubic centimeter and fashion whatever you want with them.

        I never understood why the "Fermi paradox" carried so much weight except that it was popularized by Fermi. It never passed the sniff test with me when I first heard it 40 years ago, and that was before I had a decent understanding of plasmas, radiation, entropy, etc.

        • (Score: 4, Interesting) by khallow on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:52AM (5 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:52AM (#1196551) Journal

          You need technological civilizations that can survive over billions of years. You need technology that can survive thousands of years in space without repair. You can't pick up resources on the way because there aren't any.

          Yes. It's not easy. But on the other hand, you don't need civilizations to hold up for a billion years. Earth has plenty of civilizations rise and fall, but we still managed to get here.

          And the universe was much smaller back in his day, even in 1950; the existence of other galaxies wasn't even known when he was going through college and the universe was only 100,000 light years across.

          Galaxies were known as galaxies well before 1950.

          In 1734, philosopher Emanuel Swedenborg in his Principia speculated that there might be galaxies outside our own that were formed into galactic clusters that were minuscule parts of the universe that extended far beyond what we could see. These views "are remarkably close to the present-day views of the cosmos."[39] In 1745, Pierre Louis Maupertuis conjectured that some nebula-like objects were collections of stars with unique properties, including a glow exceeding the light its stars produced on their own, and repeated Johannes Hevelius's view that the bright spots were massive and flattened due to their rotation.[40] In 1750, Thomas Wright correctly speculated that the Milky Way was a flattened disk of stars, and that some of the nebulae visible in the night sky might be separate Milky Ways.

          In 1912, Vesto Slipher made spectrographic studies of the brightest spiral nebulae to determine their composition. Slipher discovered that the spiral nebulae have high Doppler shifts, indicating that they are moving at a rate exceeding the velocity of the stars he had measured. He found that the majority of these nebulae are moving away from us.[43][44]

          In 1917, Heber Curtis observed nova S Andromedae within the "Great Andromeda Nebula" (as the Andromeda Galaxy, Messier object M31, was then known). Searching the photographic record, he found 11 more novae. Curtis noticed that these novae were, on average, 10 magnitudes fainter than those that occurred within our galaxy. As a result, he was able to come up with a distance estimate of 150,000 parsecs. He became a proponent of the so-called "island universes" hypothesis, which holds that spiral nebulae are actually independent galaxies.[45]

          In 1920 a debate took place between Harlow Shapley and Heber Curtis (the Great Debate), concerning the nature of the Milky Way, spiral nebulae, and the dimensions of the universe. To support his claim that the Great Andromeda Nebula is an external galaxy, Curtis noted the appearance of dark lanes resembling the dust clouds in the Milky Way, as well as the significant Doppler shift.[46]

          So the theory was kicking around 200 years before 1950, and was pretty well developed 30 years before with strong observational evidence to back it up.

          I never understood why the "Fermi paradox" carried so much weight except that it was popularized by Fermi. It never passed the sniff test with me when I first heard it 40 years ago, and that was before I had a decent understanding of plasmas, radiation, entropy, etc.

          Because the universe has had almost 14 billion years to come up with space faring intelligences. Why aren't we up to our eyeballs in such intelligences or artifacts originated by these intelligences? Even if the original organisms didn't survive, why aren't we seeing a lot of von Neumann machines or similar?

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 16 2021, @12:03PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 16 2021, @12:03PM (#1196610) Journal
            Link. [wikipedia.org]
          • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:23PM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:23PM (#1196627)

            Time is important, but here it is treated as the only important variable. It doesn't mean anything if nobody can leave their backyards because of the physical distances involved. von Neumann probes can't replicate without materials to replicate with; the argument here is that they'll just fly around and wherever they get, they just make some more stuff, whatever stuff is needed. The Fermi paradox treats the whole problem as a diffusion problem, but in the steps along the way there are "someone would have figured this out" steps. Not very compelling. As Douglas Adams pointed out, space is big, REALLY REALLY big. There is enough unobtainium and magical thinking that underlies both arguments and you can't treat it as an ideal gas problem.

            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:09PM (2 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:09PM (#1196637) Journal

              As Douglas Adams pointed out, space is big, REALLY REALLY big.

              The problem here is that the time is much more boggling than the distance! For example, suppose someone started walking from the beginning of the universe at a stiff rate of 20 miles a day. How far would they have gone by now? 17 light-years, a third of that since the Earth was created. The time metric is so much bigger than the space metric that you could in theory walk between stars with the time that's been given.

              The Fermi paradox treats the whole problem as a diffusion problem, but in the steps along the way there are "someone would have figured this out" steps.

              Which is the point of the exercise. There are all sorts of interesting scenarios. Maybe there are a bunch of dead or moribund civilizations out there that just never passed a "figured this out" step. Maybe we're the first intelligent life in the galaxy. Maybe there's a bunch of galactic life out there, but we're a zoo.

              And really, it's not that hard. Do you really think we can't build spacecraft and entities that can last thousands of years?

              • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:55PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @02:55PM (#1196654)

                Do you really think we can't build spacecraft and entities that can last thousands of years?

                No, I don't share your optimism. Or I should say, not widespread functioning systems, and certainly not self-replicating systems that can whip up copies of itself out of nothing. The dead hulls and carcasses would drift around, much like the fate of our Voyager probes, and perhaps happen by a star to give a start to an alien Avi Loeb to marvel at. You can't get around the laws of thermodynamics. My personal belief is that there is lots of intelligent life out there, past and present, but on the whole we are doomed to our stellar islands of existence, at least under the laws of physics as we currently understand them.

                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 17 2021, @11:16PM

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 17 2021, @11:16PM (#1197213) Journal

                  You can't get around the laws of thermodynamics.

                  Sigh. So how long can one build such systems? Order of magnitude is fine. My take is that there's no law of thermodynamics that prevents us from eventually building spacecraft that can last millions of years. It's just a lot more hardcore engineering.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @09:29PM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @09:29PM (#1196476)

    Don't they do color processing on these pictures, to bring out the distinction between (in this case) cloud layers? Most of the pictures we see of the other planets are enhanced -- they wouldn't look like that to a human's naked eye if the human were floating at that position in space.

    Or am I wrong?

    • (Score: 5, Informative) by EvilSS on Monday November 15 2021, @09:44PM (1 child)

      by EvilSS (1456) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 15 2021, @09:44PM (#1196481)
      You can see the raw images in this gallery: https://www.missionjuno.swri.edu/junocam/processing?source=junocam [swri.edu]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @11:18PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @11:18PM (#1196513)

        Thank you!

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @10:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @10:35PM (#1196498)

      All depends upon the filters installed. Normally you are correct in that science cams use the filters that will get at the science they are after, and when those filters don't correspond to the human eye response, they make false color images by assigning the different filters to the different R-G-B channels in the image. However in this case, I believe, the JUNOcam is a "public outreach" camera and it has the standard R-G-B filters you'd get on your cell phone camera, so (I believe) the images off of it are what you'd see. (JUNOcam also has a fourth filter optimized for methane gas detection, I'm assuming because they had an extra filter slot on the sensor and they added something for science purposes).

      One of the best examples of this is the old Viking lander. If you want to make a picture of what the eye would see, but you have separate images taken in red, green, and blue filters, you need to scale the images according to the photopic response of the eye, where you'd make the green image brighter than the blue, etc. When Viking sent back its first pictures, they quickly made a color image by throwing the red, green, and blue channels in unscaled, and the resulting picture showed a blue sky [nasa.gov] because blue was over represented in the color composite. They fairly quickly scaled the colors properly showing a reddish-orange sky. HOWEVER, too late! The aliens-on-Mars crowd quickly realized that the sky there really is blue (because of life!) and this was the start of the evidence of the GREAT NASA/JPL COVERUP! (same crowd and same mission as the "Face on Mars", Cydonia Region, etc.)

    • (Score: 2) by Some call me Tim on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:33AM (1 child)

      by Some call me Tim (5819) on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:33AM (#1196536)

      If you've got enough money I'm sure Elon Musk could get you there to see for yourself, maybe even before you died for lack of food and oxygen. If the toilet breaks, all bets are off.

      --
      Questioning science is how you do science!
      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 17 2021, @11:19PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 17 2021, @11:19PM (#1197215) Journal

        If you've got enough money I'm sure Elon Musk could get you there to see for yourself, maybe even before you died for lack of food and oxygen.

        Who would get you to Jupiter faster?

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Snotnose on Monday November 15 2021, @09:30PM (2 children)

    by Snotnose (1623) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 15 2021, @09:30PM (#1196477)

    Considering it's so close to the huge mass of the sun and all, if memory serves getting a probe to Pluto is easier than getting one to Mercury.

    Then again, I just ensure USB and touchscreens work on new smartphone chips, so I'm not exactly a rocket scientist.

    Oh yeah, I retired 10 years ago. I'm pretty sure Qualcomm has figured out the USB and touchscreen stuff by now. Mercury fly bys? Notsomuch.

    --
    Of course I'm against DEI. Donald, Eric, and Ivanka.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @10:43PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 15 2021, @10:43PM (#1196500)

      It all depends upon how much fuel you want to burn and/or how impatient you are. To get to Mercury, you need to dump a lot of the velocity you have at the Earth's orbit. You could just launch a spacecraft with a crap-ton of fuel on it and fly straight on and slow down when you get there, but that is impractical. The MESSENGER spacecraft made a flyby of the Earth, Venus (twice), and Mercury (three times) before it went into the orbit. The same for getting to Pluto, but there you need to speed up. You could get there in a huff and not stop, like the New Horizons that launched on a big-ass rocket and went as fast as it could (but it would have had to dump a lot of velocity to go into orbit when it got there and it wasn't carrying fuel for that), or you could take the Voyager approach and hit each planet along the way (the problem with the Voyager approach is you have to wait 200-some-odd years for the planets to line up nicely).

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Monday November 15 2021, @11:03PM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday November 15 2021, @11:03PM (#1196509) Journal
      It depends on your propulsion system. Using your own reaction mass, Pluto is easier to get to. Using solar sails which reflect photons from the Sun to transfer momentum, it's easier to get to Mercury.
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:09AM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 16 2021, @01:09AM (#1196531)

    Anyone have the actual image location? The NASA site needs a lot of extra JS and connections to strange sites.

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