https://cosmographia.substack.com/p/the-black-death-is-far-older-than
In 1338, among a scattering of obscure villages just to the west of Lake Issyk-Kul, Kyrgyzstan, people began dropping dead in droves. Among the many headstones found in the cemeteries of Kara-Djigach and Burana, one can read epitaphs such as "This is the grave of Kutluk. He died of the plague with his wife." Recently, ancient DNA exhumed from these sites has confirmed the presence of the plague bacterium Yersinia pestis, cause of the condition that became known as the Black Death. The strain detected in those remote graveyards of Central Asia has been identified as the most recent common ancestor of the plague that went on to kill as much as 60% of the Eurasian population in the great pandemic of the 14th-century.
[...] In 2018, a team of researchers found ancient traces of the plague bacterium in 4900-year old remains in Sweden. A few years later, traces of the bacterium were found in a 5000-year old skull in Latvia. It was tentatively suggested that these finds correlate with the Neolithic Decline, and might explain the large die off within these farming societies. However the cases were isolated, with some of the infected buried with uninfected, suggesting there wasn't an epidemic comparable to the Black Death outbreaks that would come in later millenniums.
[...] Whether the Neolithic Decline was mostly, or in part, caused by the plague is still up for debate, but one thing is clear: humanity has been battling Yersinia pestis for a long, long time.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Friday September 20 2024, @05:03PM (7 children)
Yersinia pestis certainly didn't jump out of a vacuum, and suddenly start killing people. I mean, maybe it could, if you believe in alien invasions, but I don't. (Unless of course, I'm just arguing for fun.) The bacterium probably dates back millions, tens of millions, or even hundreds of millions of years. At one point in European history, mankind and the bacterium had mutated in manners that intersected, making us painfully aware of yersinia pestis' existence.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday September 20 2024, @05:28PM (6 children)
My understanding is that one of the reasons that plague spread so badly when it did was the absolutely appalling bad levels of sanitation works compared to the number of people living in close proximity in the relevant era. This was a world without landfills or weekly garbage pickup - you might have a communal pile to dump your garbage on, but that was about it in most of the world. That led to rats, which led to easily-spread plague.
Meanwhile, throw in some religious superstitions about cats, and the rats didn't have much by way of natural predators. Basically, way worse than the New York subways have ever had it.
"Think of how stupid the average person is. Then realize half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
(Score: 2, Informative) by Opyros on Friday September 20 2024, @06:51PM (2 children)
Although the story about medieval people killing cats appears to be untrue [historyforatheists.com].
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 21 2024, @12:23AM
That's not what JD Vance is saying.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Reziac on Saturday September 21 2024, @02:50AM
Also, dogs are much better at killing rats, and the best rat-hunters will go at it until they run out of rats. Cats normally kill one to eat and maybe one for fun, and are over it for the day, and don't do nearly as much active pursuit.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by SomeRandomGeek on Friday September 20 2024, @09:24PM (2 children)
It is all kind of fuzzy. The appalling sanitation conditions you describe were hardly new in the fourteenth century. Of course plagues were hardly new either. The sixth century Plague of Justinian has been confirmed to have been caused by Yersinia Pestis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian [wikipedia.org]
So, the black death wasn't unprecedented, it was just really bad. At this late date, it is hard to say what combination of weakened humans, strengthened bacteria, more frequent travel, and sheer bad luck made it so bad.
(Score: 2) by sjames on Friday September 20 2024, @10:07PM
Also, given how many were killed, our modern relative resistance could actually be evolution in action. Modern Europeans descended from the roughly 33% that survived.
(Score: 2) by HeadlineEditor on Saturday September 21 2024, @12:06PM
What made the plague so much more devastating as time went on is greater urbanization. Specifically, people living *really close* to rats all the time. It wasn't the rats' fault; they were victims too. But once they died, the fleas carrying Y. pestis would look for their next hosts as nearby as possible....
(Score: 3, Interesting) by looorg on Friday September 20 2024, @06:04PM (2 children)
Bubonic plague is still making the rounds, people die from it every year. There just have not been any massive Black Death size or kind of event for some time. Some minor events in the last century or so but they all lack the scale. Also we kind of know how to treat it these days. So if you get it somehow these days the only reasons to die is, bad luck or, that you or they miss it and don't apply the treatment or that you are in some dark corner of the globe that doesn't have proper healthcare.
So it has been around for a long time, it's still here and we have not managed to eradicate it. It's a waiting game for the proper mutations, guiding hand of man or something and then we'll have Black Death II (or IV) -- Electric Boogaloo of Death! I'm sure there is some weapon-grade-super-strain sitting in a lab somewhere just waiting to escape.
(Score: 2, Troll) by bzipitidoo on Saturday September 21 2024, @03:00PM (1 child)
> or that you are in some dark corner of the globe that doesn't have proper healthcare.
Like the U.S.?
(Score: 2) by looorg on Saturday September 21 2024, @04:36PM
I guess it depends on the location. I'm sure most of the US probably have good or ok healthcare. You might not be able to pay for it but it should still be adequate. If you are out in the boonies and it's days to civilization then you are more or less dead. Somewhat depending on that kind of plague you got, I'm unsure what the scale is between them but no matter if you get Bubonic-, Septicemic (blood)- or Pneumonic (lungs) plague you are just dead without treatment. There is no recovery on your own without treatment. Can't shake it off or just hide under your blanket. There is just death, horrific death.