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posted by
NCommander
on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:40PM
from the if-we-accidently-implemented-something-we-promised-is-it-still-a-bug? dept.
from the if-we-accidently-implemented-something-we-promised-is-it-still-a-bug? dept.
I'm pleased to announce that moderate then post has now been implemented. In truth, its been implemented since the last major update due to a bug. Before releasing slashcode 14.04, I was experimenting with moderate^post code on dev, and the code was merged in with the basis that it would be enabled as part of the moderation reworks. Theoretically, this code should have been disabled. In actuality, I skewed a variable; the global that controls this functionality was not 100% properly implemented.
mrcoolbp noticed the bug today, and seeing as we needed a code change either way to properly fix it, I decided to roll this bit of the moderation rework out early. I'm not thrilled on squishing two bugs in production on the same day, and I'm going to be working with the dev team to get a rigorous QA plan put together (which will be posted here) before we do any more major updates to the site.
Until then, enjoy the new functionality.
NCommander adds: I'm giving this a one time bump on the main index as it was posted very late for US based users. We *really really* need a featured story feature.
mrcoolbp noticed the bug today, and seeing as we needed a code change either way to properly fix it, I decided to roll this bit of the moderation rework out early. I'm not thrilled on squishing two bugs in production on the same day, and I'm going to be working with the dev team to get a rigorous QA plan put together (which will be posted here) before we do any more major updates to the site.
Until then, enjoy the new functionality.
NCommander adds: I'm giving this a one time bump on the main index as it was posted very late for US based users. We *really really* need a featured story feature.
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Moderate^Post Is Now Moderate Then Post
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People are beginning to notice you. Try dressing before you leave the house.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:12AM
The one downside is we don't have moderation previews so there's no way to undo a bad moderation other than to ask for other people to upmod. This feature was supposed to go out with mod previews (which are yet to be implemented). Still, I much prefer this to the other way.
Still always moving
(Score: 0) by barrahome on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:29AM
Well you did a great work anyway. Keep moving.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:55AM
What do you mean? Unlike on Slashdot, you don't actually moderate unless and until you press the "moderate" button. So you can preview your moderation as long as you want. Just refrain from pressing that "moderate" button until you're sure.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2, Redundant) by NCommander on Thursday April 10 2014, @05:59AM
Its easy to misclick and choose the wrong moderation; unless you look through every post makng sure you haven't foobared it, you can mismod. WHat I wanted was a confirmation page showing all the moderations you're going to apply in a single go.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:08AM
I understand. Maybe that has been no issue for me because I tend to press "moderate" after either single or few close together moderations, so it's trivial to review those before submission.
Actually I'd prefer the moderation buttons right to the dropdown menu to refer to the single moderation on the left (the way it happens if you use the Moderatrix Firefox extension on Slashdot). Of course, that will only work well as soon as some Ajax is introduced.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 3, Informative) by NCommander on Thursday April 10 2014, @04:48PM
This is a limitation on how the moderation script works; if you looked at the HTML of the page when you have modpoints, you'd see that basically the entire thing becomes one giant form, and everything gets fired off at once. Its room for improvement, but not pressing plus to make such a feature work.
Still always moving
(Score: 4, Insightful) by ticho on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:47AM
But you are supposed to do exactly that when moderating - carefully pick the right option, not whirl through them haphazardly. You owe it to other participants when acting as a moderator.
If anything, this should make people to pause and think during moderation even more, because they will know they can't just undo their mods.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rts008 on Thursday April 10 2014, @09:38AM
Unfortunately, a lot of times moderators like to use the mod points as 'clue bats' from their point of view.
I do my best to only use +1 insightful/informative/funny mods unless there is an obvious troll.
I try to stay open minded, and attempt to mod to further the discussion...not everyone does so.(and I fail occasionally, also!)
(Score: 1) by ticho on Thursday April 10 2014, @12:24PM
My point was not how you use the points, but that you use them without haste,without having to undo them later due a mistake.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday April 11 2014, @02:05AM
I've never mismodded in haste. I have mismodded (and had to do a kill-mod post) because somewhere between one dropdown and the next, I must have hit an arrow key which changed the selection, and what was supposed to be a mod-up became a mod-down. But it only took once... now I check before I click the Mod button. It's a bit of a nuisance, still.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 1) by el_oscuro on Thursday April 10 2014, @10:40PM
I agree. If we have a preview button for comments (which you just typed and are on your screen), we should have one for moderation as well. You can be moderating a long discussion where an accidental key press can change a random moderation that isn't even on the screen and it is very hard to catch even if you are checking carefully.
SoylentNews is Bacon! [nueskes.com]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:00AM
I just notice whom I answered to ... I'm sure you knew what I just wrote ;-) But I'm still puzzled what you mean with "moderation preview".
(Oh, and removing the waiting period between posts would also be a welcome change. I understand there must be some limit, but it shouldn't already trigger at the second post. Make it two posts in 4 minutes instead of one post in 2, and things would be much better already.)
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday April 10 2014, @04:56PM
The post button limit I think is 1-2 minutes. Submission queue have a 5 minute cooldown. Due to a varnish bug, the reskey check that implements the cooldown was misfiring, but this SHOULD be fixed. If you're still seeing it, its a bug.
Still always moving
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:25PM
Well, my self-correcting self-reply almost certainly was really in the first two minutes of my previous post, so I don't think I triggered a bug. It's also not a pressing issue (I can live with the current delay, although I don't like it), but one which would be very welcome in case it eventually gets changed. It would just be nice if it were somewhere on the list of things to do when there happens to be time left. Whenever that may be.
Anyway, in case I come over too critical, let me stress that I really think you're doing a great job. My comments are just saying how I think the site would become even better.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by NCommander on Thursday April 10 2014, @08:24PM
I'll poke in the DB for the magic variable that controls this. The rate limiting was accidently broken by varnish (formkeys weren't being saved, which caused other issues), so when we fixed that bug, this functionality returned.
Still always moving
(Score: 3, Interesting) by rts008 on Thursday April 10 2014, @09:29AM
To be fair, I think you and your staff/minions/co-workers have not only revived what drew us to 'that other site', but also improved it.
Regardless of that, you all have been very open about everything, and even if decisions were made that did not please everyone, the majority seem to be pleased. (I, for one, am very pleased!)
You(and all of SN) are doing well, and keep up the good work, and most of all...take pride in what has been accomplished so far, it is deserved IMHO.
Yeah, we will expect the impossible instantly(or faster), flame you and abuse you, but take heart!..it means we love you.(slight sarcasm)
I used to be a special forces team leader(US Army), and I can tell you from experience:
If they are bitching about trivial/mundane crap, then all is well, all is right with the world.
It's when the gripes take a pattern, or things get really quiet that there is a problem.(like being a parent)
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday April 10 2014, @06:41PM
Hear, hear.
The human element is by far one of the best aspects of this site. Allowing common users to chat with the engaged leadership (and other users) via IRC, showing that they have soul and personality (often at the risk of them sounding "unprofessional," but fuck being professional, those with sticks up their ass about it can kindly fuck off back to the Green Site).
It's a refreshing change of pace from the arrogant "ivory-tower/fuck you serfs you do what we want" attitude the editors at the Green Site had. Though admittedly I started lurking the Green Site around '03, so maybe the editors there used to be cool before the power and "fame"(ha.) got to their heads. Perhaps somebody old-skool can provide more context.
If you could see NCommander during one of his ranting status announcements, he would most likely look something like this. [imageshack.us]
And fuck yeah to extending the functionality and listening to the crowd, seizing this opportunity by the balls, rather than simply riding on the coattails of Slashdot's funny-smelling corpse. If you're still around when I finish up my CS degree in a couple years, maybe I'll pitch-in and contribute direct manpower to the project. Godspeed, staff!
(Score: 3, Interesting) by chebucto on Thursday April 10 2014, @10:57AM
At some point (this is a long-term kind of 'nice to have' feature), it'd be good to have a 5 or 10 second window in which people can cancel submitting their moderations, or cancel submitting their posts. So, if someone gets a moderation wrong, ir mispells a word, then they can click a button, fix the problem, and re-submit.
For me, I often only realize my mistake _after_ I've submitted something. So personally, I would find this kind of feature useful, even knowing that the Preview button is already there.
That kind of feature would go some way to addressing the bad-moderation issue you mentioned.
(Even better, though more difficult, would be doing this without javascript; something along the lines of having a timer in the database that submits a post or mods a mod as long as an Undo request is not received within X seconds)
(Score: 1) by urza9814 on Thursday April 10 2014, @02:06PM
Yeah, I have problems with that too. Took a sec to think about this and have a couple of my own ideas that I think are kinda interesting:
1) Obviously the idea is we don't want people editing or deleting posts after someone replies. So perhaps add a 'locked' field to the DB for every post, and as soon as someone clicks to reply, your post gets locked and you can't edit anymore. That could get messy though...ie if someone tries to reply WHILE you are editing.
2) One of my most common mistakes is putting 'quote' instead of 'blockquote' as a tag. So perhaps an 'edit markup only' feature that would only allow you to change content within tags. So you could fix links or formatting, but not content. More complicated to code, but much simpler to understand.
3) Finally, perhaps just a setting to enable logged-in users to force themselves to preview just like ACs do. So IF you enable that option, the submit button disappears until after you preview. Seems stupid, I know, but I for one would turn it on to force myself to preview -- as it is, I rarely do.
(Score: 4, Funny) by mrcoolbp on Thursday April 10 2014, @02:49PM
Sometimes I don't need to preview. Learn the hard way and look stoopid fro mispselling soem stufu, or just use the preview button.
(Score:1^½, Radical)
(Score: 1) by paulej72 on Thursday April 10 2014, @07:46PM
slash supports the quote tag. It should work, but is broken in some part of the code. My guess it is being stripped out by the html sanitizing engine before getting rewritten to what it is supposed to be. It is on my todo list to look at and and debug.
Team Leader for SN Development
(Score: 1) by urza9814 on Thursday April 10 2014, @08:11PM
Awesome, thanks!
I'm already getting used to just using blockquote now though...been a slow week at the office ;)