Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by cmn32480 on Monday May 30 2016, @06:44AM   Printer-friendly
from the fed-up-with-the-UNIX-take-over dept.

The spreading of systemd continues, now actively pushed by themselves unto other projects, like tmux:

"With systemd 230 we switched to a default in which user processes started as part of a login session are terminated when the session exists (KillUserProcesses=yes).

[...] Unfortunately this means starting tmux in the usual way is not effective, because it will be killed upon logout."

It seems methods already in use (daemon, nohup) are not good for them, so handling of processes after logout has to change at their request and as how they say. They don't even engange into a discussion about the general issue, but just pop up with the "solution". And what's the "reason" all this started rolling? dbus & GNOME coders can't do a clean logout so it must be handled for them.

Just a "concidence" systemd came to the rescue and every other project like screen or wget will require changes too, or new shims like a nohup will need to be coded just in case you want to use with a non changed program. Users can probably burn all the now obsolete UNIX books. The systemd configuration becomes more like a fake option, as if you don't use it you run into the poorly programmed apps for the time being, and if they ever get fixed, the new policy has been forced into more targets.

Seen at lobsters 1 & 2 where some BSD people look pissed at best. Red Hat, please, just fork and do you own thing, leaving the rest of us in peace. Debian et al, wake up before RH signed RPMs become a hard dependency.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Aiwendil on Monday May 30 2016, @09:05AM

    by Aiwendil (531) on Monday May 30 2016, @09:05AM (#352573) Journal

    Because that would be the sane way of doing things, and if they where sane they would also start splitting systemd into a herd of systemd deamons that could easily be interchanged with other software of similar capabilities..

    Akin to the old way of "do one thing but do it well"..

    Or put another way - once you start doing stuff the easy way it is hard to let go of that habit.

    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +4  
       Insightful=3, Informative=1, Total=4
    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   5  
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 30 2016, @10:23PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 30 2016, @10:23PM (#352790)

    Or put another way - once you start doing stuff the easy way it is hard to let go of that habit.

    This habit started with Linux which is a Kernel that did kernels the easy (monolithic) way. The GNU/Linux project has been slated for a huge entropy gathering cluster fsck and downhill careen ever since... and systemd is just the biggest boulder rolling down that slope.

    Posted from my systemd-less Slackware slackstation. [youtube.com]

    • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday May 31 2016, @07:09AM

      by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @07:09AM (#352971) Journal

      I kinda agree with that, however the GNU tools are pretty portable in the other hand - so one have to give linux some credit for trying to limit its influence on the programs that depends on the system it provides.. (ie - the linux-people are aware that if they brake anything its their responsibility to provide compability layers)

    • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday May 31 2016, @01:54PM

      by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @01:54PM (#353045)

      So point to a major operating system in widespread use that uses a microkernel.

      You can't? Whoops!

      --
      "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
      • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday May 31 2016, @06:05PM

        by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @06:05PM (#353144) Journal

        How about Symbian? (The pre-let's-get-shafted-by-microsoft OS used in nokia phones)

        Considering the durability of old nokia-phones I'd be surprised if there wasn't a few million of them still around.

        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday May 31 2016, @06:46PM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @06:46PM (#353165)

          Not exactly my definition of a "major operating system." In the same ballpark perhaps.

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
          • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday May 31 2016, @08:45PM

            by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @08:45PM (#353206) Journal

            (btw, noticied symbian still was used in some phones released in 2014)

            Well, let's take a bigger player then - QNX (forgot about it in my previous post)...

            • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday May 31 2016, @09:43PM

              by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @09:43PM (#353224)

              QNX was one of the first commercially successful microkernel operating systems[citation needed] and is used in a variety of devices including cars[2] and mobile phones.

              QNX offers a license for non-commercial and academic users.[4]

              The BlackBerry PlayBook tablet computer designed by BlackBerry uses a version of QNX as the primary operating system. Devices from BlackBerry running the BlackBerry 10 operating system are also based on QNX.

              Getting a little closer...

              --
              "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
              • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday May 31 2016, @10:02PM

                by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @10:02PM (#353233) Journal

                Just how many units do you want? QNX isn't uncommon in embedded systems (everything from TVs to robo-vacs, to home automation to nuclear power plants to modern cars, to aeroplanes to space shuttles).. heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more QNX systems than MacOS X running..

                • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday May 31 2016, @10:23PM

                  by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @10:23PM (#353241)

                  I'm not talking about number of units, but what the units are. Obviously for embedded stuff it's probably going to be microkernels. It's like being surprised that I use a 12-ounce cup to get a drink of water instead of a 5-gallon drum.

                  Okay, power plants and aircraft are fair enough. I'm just musing out loud here :)

                  While I've got you here, is there supposed to be some meaning to double-periods? I'm aware of ellipses but not doubles.

                  --
                  "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
                  • (Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday May 31 2016, @11:06PM

                    by Aiwendil (531) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @11:06PM (#353245) Journal

                    I see more embedded systems than desktops a normal month and consider the desktops to be the oddball - but if you restrict it to the user-interactive things you still have the entertainment systems in cars, heartmonitors in medical, control interface of trainsystems, control interfaces of automated manufacturing plants, check-in systems in mass-transit.. or put anothrer way - it's normally one of QNX, WinCE or Windows Embedded* you are interacting with as soon as you are at a non-desktop[conventional], non-tablet in a non-consumer setting and have a graphical interface.

                    * = Windows Embedded is hybrid kernel.

                    The double periods are just a bad habit of mine, I use it in my drafts whenever I consider an argument to not be completed but completing it would require me to be overly verbosive. Mainly tend to forget to remove them while typing from the smartphone.

      • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday May 31 2016, @08:33PM

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @08:33PM (#353203) Journal

        Who said it has to be a microkernel? See Plan 9: http://foswiki.cs.uu.nl/foswiki/pub/Swa/CourseLiterature/arch-F.pdf [cs.uu.nl]

        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday May 31 2016, @09:38PM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday May 31 2016, @09:38PM (#353221)

          Well if you're bitching about any OS being monolithic, microkernel is the only other thing, really. It's not like you're going to complain about Linux being monolithic as a reason why it should be rewritten in Java or relicensed BSD or something...

          As I recall from a bit of reading, Plan 9 From Bell Labs was basically the "more UNIX than UNIX" OS?

          --
          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"