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posted by martyb on Wednesday November 23 2016, @05:25PM   Printer-friendly
from the you-can-go-your-own-way-♩♫♩♫ dept.

Supporters of a plan for California to secede from the union took their first formal step Monday morning, submitting a proposed ballot measure to the state attorney general's office in the hopes of a statewide vote as soon as 2018.

Marcus Ruiz Evans, the vice president and co-founder of Yes California, said his group had been planning to wait for a later election, but the presidential election of Donald Trump sped up the timeline.

"We're doing it now because of all of the overwhelming attention," Evans said.

The Yes California group has been around for more than two years, Evans said. It is based around California taxpayers paying more money to the federal government than the state receives in spending, that Californians are culturally different from the rest of the country, and that national media and organizations routinely criticize Californians for being out of step with the rest of the U.S. 

Could California go it alone?


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  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @07:54PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @07:54PM (#432050)

    Oooh man you're deluded. The Democrats are neo-liberals that have actually eroded a lot of liberal policies and enacted a ton of authoritarian garbage, the pendulum has been swinging hard towards tyranny, with some key pieces such as abortion, gay marriage, and the push to end the drug war. Those last items are there to give the population a sense that progress is being made and things are getting better. The problem is that while they distracted us with gains in civil rights (probably what gets you most upset) they've taken away a lot of economic viability for the average person (another thing the conservative folks are very upset about).

    You may swing the pendulum of civil rights in your own state, and hopefully we get fiscal policy that is beneficial to citizens and not corporations. However, it is more likely that as your politics really come to light the majority (remember, HRC won the majority vote) of people will double down on their efforts to stop your authoritarian wet dreams.

    Since we're throwing shit back and forth without any specifics, care to give me some of the highlights of how the pendulum has swung too far?

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by bradley13 on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:00PM

    by bradley13 (3053) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:00PM (#432105) Homepage Journal

    "Since we're throwing shit back and forth without any specifics, care to give me some of the highlights of how the pendulum has swung too far?"

    Sure. Care to post under your own name?

    First, it's not about authoritarianism at all. Both sides of the coin that are politics in the USA (Democrats and Republicans) belong to the same group, a group that wants to consolidate its own power. You may note my other post on this article, where I am all for secession, because it breaks up "too big to fail" governments. Governments which are, of course, totally against the idea.

    So where has the pendulum swung to far?

    Multiculturalism: the idea that every culture is equally good and deserving of respect. Nope, sorry, some cultures are barbaric, and should be banned from polite company. I'm not in the US, but it's the easy example here: Once, the US was proud to be the "melting pot", where people gave up their original culture and became just Americans. This is no longer true: now, people are encouraged to maintain separate subcultures. Black culture. Hispanic culture. Islamic culture. African culture. Multiculturalism is a disaster: Ask Minnesotans how they are enjoying Somali culture. [wnd.com]

    Political correctness. You are not allowed to criticize certain groups, regardless of context. Depending on where you are, this can be really extreme. Example: The freak-out in the US about transgender people and bathrooms. Another example: Thou shalt not criticize anything to do with feminism.

    Racism (and very similar: sexism). Whites are racist, but profoundly racist attitudes on the part of non-whites else are somehow not a problem. Example: the BLM movement in the US is focused on white violence against blacks, but utterly ignores the fact that blacks commit far more violent crimes. Example: Here in Europe, the kid gloves with which crimes by muslim refugees are handled (rape a young boy? It's ok, the rapist had a "sexual emergency" [dailymail.co.uk]).

    So what should happen, when the pendulum swings back toward center?

    - Western culture should regain its pride. Western culture, with its roots going back to the Romans and Greeks, has a lot to be proud of. There is every reason for Westerners to be proud of our culture. Not least of which: we invented most of the technology in use on the planet today.

    - Multiculturalism should end. People who immigrate must be expected to adapt to the local culture.

    - Freedom of speech. This is probably hopelessly naive, but people should feel free to share their viewpoints without worrying about social ostracism, swatting, losing their jobs, death threats, etc..

    - Treat people as individuals. Equality, yes. Special treatment, no. The current pressure to hire people based on their gender or ethnicity needs to stop. Inevitably, certain groups will migrate towards certain professions. The average woman has better social skills than the average man - most social workers are women. Men are usually stronger than women - most construction workers are men. From watching sports, certain areas in Africa seem to produce the best runners. As long as each individual has been treated fairly, and rated by their competence, there is no problem.

    --
    Everyone is somebody else's weirdo.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:33PM (#432134)

      TRIGGERED!

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:58PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:58PM (#432152)

        Haha sorry, you're just showing your best troll face :P go suck an egg

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:48PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 23 2016, @09:48PM (#432146)

      Excellent! Now that is a good post.

      I agree with everything you said, but it would be easy to take some points to extremes. Multiculturalism is fine as long as immigrants are also adapting to the local culture. Follow the local laws and adapt enough to coexist without real friction. They don't need to become christians or stop celebrating their own culture. PC culture has definitely gone too far though its intentions were initially good.

      However, you can't ignore the long term cultural prejudice that has existed in the US. It has gotten better, but there are still very visible vestiges along with enclaves of full-blown bigots/racists. If conservatives can admit that there are real reasons for why anti-racist and PC culture came about THEN we can move forward. Until then every pushback against those two items will only be interpreted as further antagonism and support of prejudice. It runs very deep to the point where even people who truly are not racist can say some stupid things without realizing that it amounts to cultural domination.

      Criticism of PC culture (as a catch-all) should be accompanied with understanding why that culture came about. "It is terrible that some policies target minorities and we're working to end race divisions, but don't call me racist just because I disagree with XYZ." If you're talking to someone who can't separate out concepts then stop engaging, they are true believers and need to work through their emotional baggage before meaningful discussion can occur. It goes both ways.

    • (Score: 4, Informative) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday November 24 2016, @11:02AM

      by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Thursday November 24 2016, @11:02AM (#432348) Journal

      > (rape a young boy? It's ok, the rapist had a "sexual emergency").

      When I saw your link to the Daily Fail I decided to do a little digging. They (and you) have massively risrepresented the facts of the case: The attacker did claim to have a "sexual emergency" but the courts did not take that into consideration, it's only the newspapers that have chosen to make a big deal of those two words. The case was flagged for retrial due to some legal technicality around an omission of evidence made by the prosecution, that's all. The attacker was tried to the same standards as anybody else, there was no special treatment. A white European guy would have been dealt with the same way in the same circumstances. The perpetrator is in jail, his conviction of sexual abuse is still upheld, and he will be re-tried properly for rape and almost certainly re-convicted. Even if the rape charge doesn't stick, the sexual abuse one will keep him behind bars.

      What we see here is a legal system working correctly - making sure everything is done fairly and by the book. This kind of thing happens all the time, all over the world, and for some reason it only hits the headlines when there's an immigrant at the centre of it.

      In short, your link is hyperbolic, alarmist, and dishonest. Confirmation bias to generate xenophobia and anti-immigrant feelings.

      Here's another newspaper covering the same story: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iraqi-refugee-raped-10-year-old-boy-swimming-pool-vienna-austria-sentence-conviction-overturned-a7377491.html [independent.co.uk]