SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
from the tentatively-named-Doc-Grumpy-Happy-Sleepy-Bashful-Sneezy-and-Dopey dept.
Astronomers have observed enough planetary transits to confirm the existence of seven "Earth-sized" exoplanets orbiting TRAPPIST-1, an ultra-cool (~2550 K) red dwarf star about 39.5 light years away. Three of the exoplanets are located inside the "habitable zone" of their parent star. These three orbit from 0.028 to 0.045 AU away from the star:
Astronomers using the TRAPPIST–South telescope at ESO's La Silla Observatory, the Very Large Telescope (VLT) at Paranal and the NASA Spitzer Space Telescope, as well as other telescopes around the world, have now confirmed the existence of at least seven small planets orbiting the cool red dwarf star TRAPPIST-1. All the planets, labelled TRAPPIST-1b, c, d, e, f, g and h in order of increasing distance from their parent star, have sizes similar to Earth.
The exoplanets are presumed to be tidally locked. The six closest to TRAPPIST-1 have been determined to be rocky, while the seventh, TRAPPIST-1h, requires additional observations to determine its characteristics due to its longer orbital period.
Mass estimates for the planets range from 0.41 Earth masses (M⊕) to 1.38 M⊕. Radii range from 0.76 Earth radii (R⊕) to 1.13 R⊕.
Spitzer, Hubble, and other telescopes will continue to make observations of the TRAPPIST-1 planetary system, but the best data will likely come from the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), which is scheduled to launch in late 2018. JWST will allow the atmospheres and temperatures of many exoplanets to be characterized, which will help to settle whether the "habitable zones" of red dwarf stars are actually hospitable.
Artist illustrations and data for the TRAPPIST-1 system compared to Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Earth.
Here's a website dedicated to the star.
Seven temperate terrestrial planets around the nearby ultracool dwarf star TRAPPIST-1 (DOI: 10.1038/nature21360) (DX)
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @02:27PM
Let's point some transmitters in that direction.
Oh wait, that would be politically correct since as we know the earth is flat and roughly 6,000 years old, and the Bible doesn't say anything about these "Trappers." We need to stop this progressive madness. I'm sick of politically correct shit like "exo-planets." Yep. Yee haw.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @02:40PM
Hahah, you're funny.
What I'm tired of is all of this talk of "earth like" or "potentially habitable" planets that we can't really verify, and don't have any way to get to (not in our life times). AND, all of the ridiculous news articles about this with "artists renditions" of these beautiful landscapes from these supposed planets. Oooh! Look at the pictures from that planet they found, it looks just like earth. I can't wait until we get there!
This isn't science. It's a blatant attempt to get attention so they'll get more money to do star gazing. We have real problems right here we need to take care of first.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @02:47PM
Its also not done by the actual scientists but those who translate the admittedly dry news of we discovered a planet that happens to be within the habitable zone to those of us who aren't astrophysicists. Its when it has to be dumbed down to fit within a newspaper for general consumption that extra crud is added, again not by scientists but copy editors. Nice try guys.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday February 23 2017, @02:55PM
Wow, aren't you guys a bunch of killjoys?
This IS exciting news. These exoplanets are almost ideal for further study: Their relative closeness ot Earth ("only" 39 LY), the smallness of the star, the short orbital periods (lots of transits), the fact that there are no less than THREE planets in the goldilcks zone, the number of planets and their gravitational interactions all help make the Trappist system a great candidate for further study. If we find life outside of this solar system, chances are good we'll find it here first.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:42PM
Where's the "Grumpy" mod?
It would only take a few hundred to a few thousand years to get a probe there, plus another 40 to get the data back. We should start planning now, because there ain't much else within reach after we're done trashing our only Goldilocks planet!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday February 23 2017, @11:05PM
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday February 23 2017, @11:15PM
It's gonna take a lot of trashing the Earth to make Venus look hospitable by comparison...
Old one: European beer is the best thing to carry on long trips, because you drink it once and turn it into American beer.
(Score: 2) by TheLink on Friday February 24 2017, @02:58AM
I heard Trappist beer is very good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trappist_beer [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @06:31PM
Study? Right!
Can't really study it, can we? Can't get to it. Really, just a guess. Might be habitable, might not. Might have a tropical rain forest, might not.
I'm all for science, but come on, this is getting ridiculous. Lets fix our home first. Focus some scientific resources right here, right now. Figure out how to feed the starving masses, produce energy that's clean and inexpensive, better medical care, etc.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Thursday February 23 2017, @07:39PM
Yes, we can. There's a lot of information you can get just from analyzing the light spectrum when the planet passes in front of the star. For example, you can figure out the composition of the atmosphere. And if the atmosphere contains a larger percentage of oxygen, it has an extremely high probability of having life.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @08:10PM
If we can never get there, how are you going to verify.
Too many hypotheticals for me.
(Score: 2) by maxwell demon on Thursday February 23 2017, @10:17PM
Then you probably also doubt that there is helium in the sun, because nobody ever took a gas probe from the sun and checked that it really contained helium atoms, right?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday February 24 2017, @01:22AM
The James Webb Space Telescope can study it in 2019.
NASA research has led to medical advances. NASA has an annual publication showing off benefits of their research called Spinoff [nasa.gov].
A small amount of resources is spent on space travel. Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty and into the middle class in recent decades. Starvation is not a problem of lacking food right now, it's a problem of distributing food, usually in places undergoing a war. If you want to fix starvation, have fun fixing places like Syria or South Sudan. NASA researches energy technologies and sees obvious benefits from improved solar and practical nuclear fusion. Medical care/research has loads of money thrown into it already, but we'll see a huge decline in costs once preventative regenerative medicine takes off.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 24 2017, @04:58AM
It surreal to see a crowd saying 'India should stick to cleaning latrines before trying space tech' turn into 'USA should stick to solving real world problems before trying space tech' in less than a decade.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday February 24 2017, @05:46AM
And which crowd is that? The ACs flinging their own poo at NASA have a fairly ephemeral sense of community by nature and don't represent the majority opinion here.
On the (3 comment) Indian space mission article, nobody said that India should not operate a space program. ISRO has done its work on the cheap, and its Mars mission was successful on the first attempt.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Friday February 24 2017, @12:05AM
Come to that, slim chances, I'd say.
With a temperature of 2550K at the surface, the emission spectrum of TRAPPIST-1 will be too weak in UV - one would need other forms of energy to (e.g.) break down the nitrogen molecule to make proteins.
The small mass of the star cause the planets to be close one to the other, slim chances for moons (thus significant tides).
BTW, I read that all 7 are very likely tidaly locked [wikipedia.org] - another major obstacle for life to appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday February 24 2017, @02:29AM
On the other hand, given their proximity and their insanely fast orbits, living on one of these has to be quite a show.
If it's even remotely habitable, we can send life there. Bacteria and simple plants are a lot more resilient and less needy than us.
Finding life when we get there would be a mess. We really don't have a great track record of handling existing lifeforms when we get somewhere new.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @03:25PM
GP here. I was being too cynical. I'm enjoying a nice cup of tea, earl grey, hot right now. I agree that the "artist renditions" are completely useless. I was looking at one and thought, "You've painted an Arctic iceberg with three moon-like objects in the sky instead of one. Yay."
There are two primary things that have me quite excited at this. Maybe, if I may be optimistic this time instead of cynical.
First, three of those planets are in the habitable zone. Those are workable odds for life that may even have a chance of evolving to some complexity (and might we hope intelligence) on at least one of those planets. iirc the local system here also has three planets in the habitable zone.
Second, it's only 40 ly away. That's very accessible compared to many other places. Sure there's the Star Trek fantasy of sending people out there and various other scenarios involving hibernation or what-have-you. In reality, even a robotic probe would probably be out of the question since there's no way we know of right now to even get something to 0.1c. Clearly we can't do much with it as far as actually going there is concerned, but on the off chance that on one of those planets there is intelligent life....
My main doubt about humans ever being able to make meaningful contact with another intelligent species are the time-distances involved. I have no confidence that humanity would be capable of sending a signal to a good-looking planet say 400 ly away and still having a civilization in power capable of receiving a reply at least 800 years in the future. (That also assumes that at exactly 400 years from now, there's a civilization in power on one of those planets that's also capable of receiving and interpreting this signal and replying.) Add in some fudge factors and a project like that would need to last centuries.
Being 40 ly away, assuming there is an intelligent technological civilization over there, means that it may be possible to actually contact them, receive a reply, and maybe have a couple more good rounds within the average life expectancy of a human civilization (which I guesstimate at about 300-400 years before collapse depending on how you measure things).
tl;dr I see good reasons to be excited here even if we can't physically go there. Maybe there's no intelligent life there. Who knows. But, and I'll be dead before physics would permit me to ever know, if....
(P.S. Didn't explain in my post above but I would like to propose that if there is intelligent life out there, we call them Trappers. It's simple and catchy.)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Thursday February 23 2017, @04:25PM
> (That also assumes that at exactly 400 years from now, there's a civilization in power on one of those planets that's also capable of receiving and interpreting this signal and replying.
One of the quirks of the vastness of cosmological time, is that if we find intelligent life out there capable of receiving our signals, it will almost certainly be REALLY intelligent life. It's simple statistics:
Current estimates date the first ever homo sapiens to about 200000 years ago, give or take a Tuesday afternoon or two. We only developed the technology to detect and decode radio signals in the last hundred years, hundred and fifty if you're feeling generous. In other words, for over 99.9% of our time on Earth, this planet has been uninhabitted as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned.
Of course, that's just the past. Human history extends into the future as well (we hope). Possibly far into the future. Let's assume that if we don't somehow extinct ourselves / knock ourselves back into the iron age in the next couple hundred years, we will master all kinds of exciting new technologies (clean energy, closed loop recycling, advanced robotics, AI, space travel / colonisation, brain uploads, GNU-Hurd, whatever) that enable the sustainable, long-term survival of our civilisation into the indefinite future. In that case, you end up with a civilisational timeline that looks a bit like this, but even more exaggerated:
{---------------------200000 years Banging rocks together--------------------}{*}{-------------------------------------Many many of centuries of post-scarcity utopian sc-fi future-------------------------------}
Where the {*} represents the measly couple of hundred of years we currently inhabit, the period in which humanity raises itself up from a squabbling pre-industrial agrarian society to a persistent global / interplanetary civilisation. Pick a point at random on that line and 99.999% of the time and you are going to either encounter pre-industrial societies (no response from SETI signals, but keep an eye on them) or superadvanced Vorlons / Culture ("Oh hai, welcome to the galactic community"). The chances of finding a bunch of early-industrial Victorians or facebook-obsessed millenials at a comparable level of development to 2016 humanity is vanishingly small.
Flipping this around then, and coming back parent's post: Assuming that civilisations on other planets develop like ours[1], we can be reasonably confident that any response to our SETI signals will almost certainly be from a civilisation that can wait 400 years for a reply.
[1] Yeah it's a big assumption, but like all this SETI and exoplanet stuff, we can only work with what we know, and all we know about Life right now is based on a datapoint of exactly One life-sustaining planet.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:43PM
we will master all kinds of exciting new technologies
We won't be more intelligent for having done so. More knowledgeable, yes.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:52PM
> for over 99.9% of our time on Earth, this planet has been uninhabitted as far as the rest of the galaxy is concerned.
Technocentric mindset, man. The Aliens, man, they can feel our auras, man. We radiate crummy Karma like crazy, man. That's why they're hiding from us, and you need another puff to commune with them, man.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday February 23 2017, @09:57PM
The TRAPPIST-1 system might be a poor choice to look for intelligent life because the star is "at least 500 million years old". That line from Wikipedia seems to be based on this paper [arxiv.org]. I guess that is based on the low temperature of the "ultra-cool" red dwarfs requiring at the least 500 million years of cooling, so there is no upper bound on the age given. 500 million years is about as long as it supposedly took for life to form/seed on Earth (I believe the date has been pushed a bit earlier by recent research).
The good news is that the James Webb Space Telescope should be able to give us more clarity about this system in just 2 years or so. It will launch in late 2018, and observations of this system will be a part of the "first wave" or whatever they're calling it. Throw in a few months to analyze the results and publish, and I'd expect to see JWST atmospheric data in mid-late 2019. Before that, there will be additional observations using Spitzer and increased interest in the system at observatories around the world.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:59PM
Verify schmerify, potentially habitable will do. If we stay where we are we're doomed. The mutant star goat is coming!
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday February 23 2017, @06:34PM
It's called the James Webb Space Telescope.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Informative) by aim on Thursday February 23 2017, @03:00PM
In case you're interested in the hardware used: http://www.trappist.ulg.ac.be/cms/c_3313473/en/trappist-eq-trappist-south [ulg.ac.be]
It's a nice 60cm RC (Ritchey-Chretien, same type as Hubble) telescope with a focal length of 4.8m (at f/8), on a heavy german equatorial mount.
The 'scope alone seems to be close to 70kEUR, around 26kEUR for the mount. I found a reference at close to 40kUSD for the camera. It sure is nice equipment, but not for the normal amateur astronomer...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Unixnut on Thursday February 23 2017, @03:21PM
Very interesting link, thanks for sharing.
And the unsung OS providing a glimpse into another solar system? Microsoft Windows XP Pro!
Not sure how to take that, if you have to use windows, then XP/2000 is pretty much the peak of Microsoft's work. Would have nice if it was an open source OS, but whatever works (and runs their software).
However MS doesn't really support it anymore. I just hope it is airgapped if nothing else. Otherwise it is discovering amazing worlds by day, and DDOSing you at night while sending you v1agra emails.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:26PM
Not sure how to take that, if you have to use windows, then XP/2000 is pretty much the peak of Microsoft's work. Would have nice if it was an open source OS, but whatever works (and runs their software).
A few weeks ago I participated in a small (20~30 people from ~10 countries) symposium about near-Earth space science at my university.
Looking around the room, I noticed a distinct lack of those shiny Apple logos that I usually see everywhere else. There was only one Apple laptop in the room, and it belonged to a Master's student. Everyone else, every single researcher, professor or PhD student seemed to be running Windows -- me included.
To give you an idea how weird that was to see around here, in my lab there are 10 people, undergrad, Master's, and PhD students, plus professor, and everyone but me has an Apple laptop. From what I've seen around, that sample is representative. At least we all use Linux on our desktop machines :)
(Score: 5, Informative) by richtopia on Thursday February 23 2017, @03:06PM
Most important impact of the discovery: A new travel poster from JPL (and a new desktop background for my laptop)!
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/visions-of-the-future/ [nasa.gov]
(Score: 3, Funny) by inertnet on Thursday February 23 2017, @04:06PM
I don't know if many Americans will get the references here. Belgians are involved in this project. Trappist is a kind of beer in Belgium, hop is an ingredient.
Actually trappist refers to the monks that brew the beer, so it's not really a kind of beer. Belgium still has many kinds of beer, whereas in most countries just a few big brands are left.
My first thought when I read the news yesterday was that they're really looking for liquid beer instead of water on those planets. It would make them more habitable for Belgian people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @05:34PM
I'm a bit few countries south from Belgium, and I've never heard of Trappist beer. My first (and only) association was... Trappist cheese. [wikipedia.org]
Those Trappist monks seem to be quite awesome.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @06:35PM
Trappist Ale. Vow of silence. And everyone knows there is no such country as Belgium. Belgium does not exist! [zapatopi.net]
(Score: 2) by inertnet on Thursday February 23 2017, @08:26PM
If you can get your hands on it, try Westmalle Tripel. One of the best trappist beers in the world in my opinion. But be moderate, it has 9 to 10% alcohol. And don't pour the beer dregs (if any) into your glass, so you have to pour it gently.
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Thursday February 23 2017, @09:22PM
for those without Javascript:
Some 40 light-years from Earth, a planet called TRAPPIST-1e offers a heart-stopping view: brilliant objects in a red sky, looming like larger and smaller versions of our own moon. But these are no moons. They are Earth-sized planets in a spectacular planetary system outside our own. These seven rocky worlds huddle around their small, dim, red star, like a family around a campfire. Any of them could harbor liquid water, but the planet shown here, fourth from the TRAPPIST-1 star, is in the habitable zone, the area around the star where liquid water is most likely to be detected. This system was revealed by the TRAnsiting Planets and PlanetesImals Small Telescope (TRAPPIST) and NASA’s Spitzer Space Telescope. The planets are also excellent targets for NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope. Take a planet-hopping excursion through the TRAPPIST-1 system.
› Download printable version (48MB PDF File) [nasa.gov]
› Download high resolution version (287MB TIFF File) [nasa.gov]
Download all posters at the highest printing resolution and please make sure to review the JPL Image Use Policy.
› Download all here. (675MB) [nasa.gov]
(Score: 2) by butthurt on Friday February 24 2017, @03:58AM
corrected links:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/visions-of-the-future/pdf/trappist.pdf [nasa.gov]
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/visions-of-the-future/tif/trappist.tif [nasa.gov]
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/visions-of-the-future/tif/all.zip [nasa.gov]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @06:56PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstellar_habitable_zone [wikipedia.org]
This is concerning. Are they using that 0-dimensional stefan-boltzmann model like all the climate researchers teach?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @07:17PM
It looks like up to at least 2013 they were...
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1303.7079 [arxiv.org]
(Score: 2) by Zz9zZ on Thursday February 23 2017, @07:41PM
They have to use some constraints, and given the wide range of possible planetary and stellar conditions it is probably better to use a basic limiting condition. The inner and outer zones are calculated on extreme conditions, thus they are more inclusive than exclusive.
~Tilting at windmills~
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 23 2017, @07:41PM
This news comes less than a week after this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nasa-climate-change_us_58a91361e4b045cd34c2689e [huffingtonpost.com]
I wonder if they are related, is this a test of how much hype astronomy can withstand?
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday February 23 2017, @09:45PM
As you can plainly see in the summary, Europe was very involved in this research. The observations were made before Trump came into office, and Spitzer was launched in 2003 during the Bush presidency. Also, this research is not considered "climate change research" or "Earth science research". There is no relation between this and that. And Trump has not made a move to stifle NASA's climate change/Earth science research just yet.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by looorg on Thursday February 23 2017, @08:54PM
from the tentatively-named-Doc-Grumpy-Happy-Sleepy-Bashful-Sneezy-and-Dopey dept.
If they actually named the planets that it would be hilarious! If only they had orbited a white star we could have named that Snow White. Disney could buy the naming rights ... poor aliens.
Anyhow when looking at the comparative image with stats (artist illustrations and data ...) compared to earth all but two of them seem to have really low mass, but then so does Mars. They are all really close to their star. What I'm mostly intrested in tho is the orbit period - what are the implications of it only being about a week to two weeks for the habitable once (e,f and g) compared to ours, if any? Will seasons pass so fast you won't even know or be able to tell the difference if there even are any. What kind of effect will this have on the planets.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Thursday February 23 2017, @09:39PM
The implications of the low orbital period, or more precisely, being close to a red dwarf star which could flare up and cause ion escape, are not too good:
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=17/02/10/0547243 [soylentnews.org]
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2041-8213/836/1/L3 [iop.org]
The good news is that the James Webb Space Telescope should shed some light on habitability because it will be able to give us a lot of information about the atmospheres. As opposed to Hubble which has only ruled out that 2 of the exoplanets in this system have atmospheres that are not dominated by hydrogen and helium.
Note: TRAPPIST-1's age is supposed to be "at least 500 million years". That means that if ion escape is happening over hundreds of millions of years like that paper suggests, the process might not be finished yet.
You mention seasons but that has to do with the rotation/tilt of the planet. These exoplanets are presumed to be tidally locked. The consensus seems to be that tidal locking is not a big issue for habitability. The atmosphere can circulate heat around the entirety of the planet, and there may be a temperate zone where day meets night (although even full daylight on some of these planets is estimated to look like dusk/dawn on Earth). Maybe tidal locking will actually improve habitability for those planets closest to the star (my speculation).
One thing I was interested in but didn't note in the summary: these planets seem to be less dense than Earth. TRAPPIST-1e and f have radii comparable to Earth but with significantly lower mass. This could be an indication that they are very water rich... perhaps "water worlds" with no land?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]