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Don't listen to Big Cattle — lab-grown meat should still be called "meat"
Lab-grown meat is on its way, and the government is trying to figure out how to regulate it. This week, the US House of Representatives [pdf] released a draft spending bill that proposes that the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) regulate lab-grown meat and figure out how it should be labeled — which is a contentious topic since Big Cattle doesn't want it to be called "meat." Regulation is important, and there's plenty more to learn, but the USDA shouldn't be the only one regulating. And when the product comes to market, yes, it should be called "meat."
Traditional meat, of course, comes from animals that are raised and slaughtered. Lab-grown meat (also called "in-vitro meat," "cultured meat," or "clean meat") is made from animal stem cells grown in a lab. But because the stem cells are typically fed with a serum derived from the blood of calf fetuses, the product uses animal products and isn't vegan. Still, the pitch for lab-grown meat is that it saves animals and also helps the environment because lab-grown meat doesn't take much land or energy to grow. Plus, lab-grown meat doesn't directly create methane emissions, while methane emissions from cows accounted for 16 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2015.
Because of the way that government agencies work, it hasn't even been clear who should regulate lab meat. The USDA traditionally regulates meat, while the US Food and Drug Administration regulates food safety and additives. The proposal that the USDA be in charge of regulation is in line with what the [pdf] National Cattlemen's Beef Association wanted, but some lab-meat advocates fear that USDA will be biased against them in favor of traditional meat. If the USDA will be regulating lab meat, it should at least collaborate with the FDA. There are no slaughterhouses for the USDA to inspect anyway, and the FDA has already been regulating food technology, like the genetically engineered salmon it approved. It makes the most sense for the two to work together.
Previously: U.S. Cattlemen's Association Wants an Official Definition of "Meat"
Related: Lab-Grown Chicken (and Duck) Could be on the Menu in 4 Years
Cargill, Bill Gates, Richard Branson Backed Memphis Meats Expects Meat From Cells in Stores by 2021
'Soylent' Dawkins? Atheist Mulls 'Taboo Against Cannibalism' Ending as Lab-Grown Meat Improves
(Score: 2) by black6host on Monday May 14 2018, @04:08AM (3 children)
I think the fact that the stem cells are animal in nature would preclude such a product from being considered vegan. Serum from the blood of calf fetuses is just the satanic dressing on it all :)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @04:13AM (2 children)
Oops, wtf. A better way to say it would be "still requires some degree of animal suffering", even though it is on par with abortion which many would support.
The thing about the serum has been mentioned since the lab-grown burger was first showed off. They could probably replace it with something else or culture that substance as well, and just haven't gone around to doing or talking about it.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @10:40AM (1 child)
Using a produce of a living cow means a cow still has to graze, drink water, fart methane, etc. for it to be obtained! This is just one additional complicating step which only arguably lightens human conscience because it allegedly doesn't mess up with bovine central nervous system, although mother cow most probably is NOT happy about humans leeching blood from her unborn calf. Until this lab meat can be grown without constantly feeding it anything from another living, or recently departed animal, it is pretty much pointless.
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @11:26AM
The fetal serum was required to make that demo lab-grown burger years ago, but companies will find (or have already found) a replacement:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2017/07/why_is_fetal_cow_blood_used_to_grow_fake_meat.html [slate.com]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JUST,_Inc.#Cultured_(Clean)_Meat [wikipedia.org]
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @04:54AM (5 children)
Seriously, people.
This is not "meat" as the guy in the street would understand it. As much as people whinge and wring their hands and pout about the importance of branding, that has not sunk a variety of other things (unless quorn has vanished since the last time I was in the supermarket, and tofurkey).
So name it something that people will not find to be deceptive.
"Cultured meat" would be honest, straightforward, comprehensible and even sound sane.
Of course, marketers might want to call it Nyumeet. Screw 'em.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @05:43AM (4 children)
It's meat.
Maybe you're alluding to the lab-grown burger, which was made completely of small strands of muscle cells put together, but with no fat cells, like 100% lean ground beef. And that will probably remain one of the easiest forms of lab-grown meat to manufacture. But it is possible that they will figure out how to make real "cuts" with fat and even bone in the right places. In the short term, they will be able to produce something that is indistinguishable from lean ground beef, unlike the many vegetarian meat imitations out there. Something like the Impossible Burger [wikipedia.org] is the closest to actually getting into an uncanny valley of non-meat. But lab-grown/cultured meat is meat, just like 96% lean ground beef or some kind of McD's/Taco Bell pink slime mix is.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @11:50AM (2 children)
I'll be happy to consider that meat. But I don't consider most sausages as meat not even if they have some muscle cells somewhere.
So hopefully they can draw a suitable line where something meets the standards for meat that most people would agree with :).
(Score: 3, Interesting) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @12:03PM (1 child)
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/sausages-and-food-safety/ct_index [usda.gov]
... and so on. The USDA standards can be pretty permissive compared to your view. Cultured meat could slot in there easily by defining the muscle cells as the main meat content and respecting applicable fat limits while containing no byproducts (so it could easily beat a lot of sausages in quality terms).
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @06:01PM
You should mention that meat is required. It's not enough to limit byproducts.
That brings us back to the definition of "meat"...
There is a labeling requirements guide [usda.gov], which contained this:
I'll research that later (probably not), but I don't expect to find a definition of "lab meat".
(Score: 2) by driverless on Monday May 14 2018, @03:54PM
It's meant, it's not meat, no it is meat, I haven't seen this much beating the meat since I don't know when. You don't need to choke a chicken to play with real meat, or even spank a monkey, whether your meat missile is grown or cultured shouldn't make any difference. No need to be a jerkoff about it.
(Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday May 14 2018, @05:01AM (8 children)
Cause it isn't going to be green, who would eat green meat? I myself would have to be real hungry before I would be eating any Soylent Red. I'd be eating rice and beans and if I couldn't get beef from my usual sources, I'd be eating fish I catch in the ocean, chickens I raise in my yard, wild pig I or my friends get on our yearly wild pig hunt, or small game and the occasional deer that I manage to hunt down. Also the chickens give more eggs than we can eat. Glad I don't live in a big city where you have to eat whatever some Mac Company serves up.
The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by arslan on Monday May 14 2018, @05:42AM (2 children)
My mate whom I've known for 20 years since college, started a fish farm about 10 years ago in a south east asian country - which I will not name. Fish is a very popular food in Asia. From what my mate tells me, I would avoid any fish from said country, and any 3rd world asian country, including his and he himself does as much. It is a race to the bottom in terms of price and the insane demands of the asian consumer wanting it cheap and in abundance. The industry feed the fishies shit/feces and in fish farms overpacked and rife with diseases. If you see any fish in your super market chain where it is imported from a 3rd world asian country, caveat emptor.
I would definitely eat lab grown fish meat if that was the only alternative to fishies from such farms. If it taste and smell like fish and doesn't have any health side-effects, I don't see a problem with it.
(Score: 4, Funny) by c0lo on Monday May 14 2018, @07:49AM (1 child)
Until then, may I interest you in some escargots?
Those bastards seem to have quite a high rate of conversion of the plants on my veggies patch into their meat.
Fortunately, unlike other animals, one doesn't need to run fast to muster them.
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(Score: 2) by arslan on Monday May 14 2018, @11:18PM
You're trying to be funny, but seriously I eat a lot of them growing up in asia, or at least a variation of them, we call them balitong [christmasrecipes.website], whenever I can afford it of course. We stir fry them. Yum yum.
(Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @06:06AM (4 children)
The demand for meat is increasing worldwide, and particularly in places like India [livekindly.co]. Not everybody can live the lifestyle you are living. So the meat industry will be meating that growing consumer demand [worldwatch.org] (it ain't shrinking despite the apparent popularity [nytimes.com] of veganism). Lab-grown meat offers a number of potential benefits over livestock:
It remains to be seen whether lab-grown meat will become cheaper than meat from livestock.
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(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @07:45AM
FTFY
Huh! I'll give you some DNA from the pond-slime, make yourself some meat of that.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday May 14 2018, @08:51AM (2 children)
Nooo, why the fuck are they adopting a more western diet? Indian food is so much nicer! I would have hoped that the religious underpinnings of vegetarianism in India would have inspired a moral code as well but it sounds like that hasn't been passed on to the next generation. It's odd the stats changed that quickly though -- I'd like to see a graph but haven't found one yet.
Welcome to Edgeways. Words should apply in advance as spaces are highly limite—
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Monday May 14 2018, @10:17AM
Although your concerns may be valid, it should be noted that India has not been monolithic when it comes to meat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cuisine#Regional_cuisines [wikipedia.org]
https://tableagent.com/article/an-overview-of-indias-regional-cuisines/ [tableagent.com]
https://www.tripsavvy.com/indian-food-guide-1539819 [tripsavvy.com]
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @09:09PM
Meat has been commonly eaten by non-Hindus in Kerala for over a thousand years.
Also, religions often do not have moral codes. Religions have doctrine that states what is sacred and what is taboo. Moral codes are for individuals that think for themselves.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Monday May 14 2018, @10:24AM (2 children)
"Cow says moooooo!, honey. Now eat your processed invitro non-vegan meta-beef."
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. I have always been here. ---Gaaark 2.0 --
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Monday May 14 2018, @11:45AM
"Don't worry, sir, I'll be very humane."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 15 2018, @12:54AM
I'm willing to bet that this meat is very popular with millennial vegans.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 14 2018, @04:08PM (1 child)
There were pretty serious concerns that producers of margarine would be able to pass off their product as butter, not the least that all kinds of random shit used to go into it.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday May 14 2018, @07:10PM
Why would the government want to regulate food? Aren't Republicans against any and all kind of regulation of corporations no matter the result?
Trying to regulate meat, while not regulating the environment seems just a wee tad bit hypocritical.
Why all of a sudden would it matter what the 99% eat as their daily meat-like substitute?
Some people need assistants to hire some assistance.
Other people need assistance to hire some assistants.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday May 14 2018, @07:58PM
I've been looking forward to this going mainstream since first hearing about it almost a decade ago. If done correctly, this could scale massively and produce large quantities of lean, uniform animal protein with zero suffering to any actual animals.
I'm one of those people who doesn't care much for specific cuts of meat and consumes most of hers in ground form as part of a curry or stew, so even if this only ever becomes good for making the equivalent of 95% lean ground turkey, that's perfectly fine for me. Chilli, soups, meatballs, croquettes, curries and so forth are what I'd make from this.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...