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Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:
[...] A new nationwide study of obituaries has found that people with religious affiliations lived nearly four years longer than those with no ties to religion.
That four-year boost -- found in an analysis of more than 1,000 obits from around the country -- was calculated after taking into account the sex and marital status of those who died, two factors that have strong effects on lifespan.
[...] "We found that volunteerism and involvement in social organizations only accounted for a little less than one year of the longevity boost that religious affiliation provided," Wallace said. "There's still a lot of the benefit of religious affiliation that this can't explain."
So what else explains how religion helps people live longer? It may be related to the rules and norms of many religions that restrict unhealthy practices such as alcohol and drug use and having sex with many partners, Way said.
In addition, "many religions promote stress-reducing practices that may improve health, such as gratitude, prayer or meditation," he said.
[...] Way said there are limitations to the study, including the fact that it could not control for important factors related to longevity such as race and health behaviors. But a potential strength was that, unlike other studies, religious affiliation was not self-reported, but was reported by the obituary writer.
-- submitted from IRC
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @09:48AM (24 children)
Less likely to be murdered for being an atheist? ;)
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/#penalty-for-converting-to-another-faith [pewforum.org]
Oh wait this is the USA not some Muslim state, these sort of things don't happen: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/12/arizona-woman-shoots-and-kills-atheist-for-not-believing-in-god/ [patheos.com]
Seriously though, lots of religious groups (churches, temples, etc) are like an extended family, so for example if you've got cancer, going through chemo and convalescing at home you're more likely to get home-cooked food and not have to eat takeaway meals or skip meals when "you just don't feel up to eating".
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Revek on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:24PM (7 children)
Also, they fear death more than the non insane.
This page was generated by a Swarm of Roaming Elephants
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:45PM (6 children)
Fearing death is foolish. It's going to happen no matter what you try to do about it. Give it a healthy respect but don't actually worry about it.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:14PM (3 children)
If death results in oblivion then there's nothing to fear. But given we still don't understand consciousness it's hard to say for sure what happens. It could be our consciousness continues detached - no memory or senses to "read" from or write to. Just because a person with advanced Alzheimer's/dementia can't remember much doesn't mean they aren't conscious...
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Tuesday June 19 2018, @08:24PM
You make a very good point. However, I'd argue without the brain apparatus to feel pleasure, pain or emotions, let alone reflect on them or indeed form any thoughts at all (which you've touched on in your own post), I struggle to see how such a situation could be associated with any kind of experience at all. I can't see how it would even be some kind of oblivion that you'd have to sort of wait out because there'd be no way to sense or reflect on the passage of time itself even.
This brings me back to a conclusion that I think I've recently mentioned on this site, that unless it were a truly eternal oblivion (and eternity sounds physically dubious, although Heat Death of the universe could maybe allow it) then from your point of view it would be instantaneously over and replaced with whatever it is that happened next (due to physics and random coincidence if there's no higher metaphysical processes in charge), or more correctly with whatever the first thing is to allow you to form thoughts again. I suppose it's a sort of extension of the Anthropic Principle to a single conscious point of view.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 23 2018, @07:17PM (1 child)
While we don't understand consciousness itself, we can be pretty sure it is tied to the functioning of our brain. If you get hit on the head hard enough, you'll get knocked out. Brain cancers or brain surgery to remove parts of the brain can significantly change someone's personality.
There is no reason to believe consciousness can exist independently of the brain.
(Score: 2) by acid andy on Monday July 02 2018, @11:33PM
An objective, scientific study of the brain and senses gives us no reason to believe that the first person aspects of consciousness experience exist at all, and yet they do. The functioning of the brain does not seem to depend on subjective experience, so it's certainly possible that they exist independently even though they intuitively seem to correlate.
If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:35PM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:56PM
Yeah. Bunch of moochers waiting on other people to die so they can get free replacement parts. Get a job.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:34PM (15 children)
Having a social support network of friends or family that care about you and that you care about is linked to living longer even without considering things like having people support you through cancer treatment. People with a safety network like that are more likely to take their medicines, eat healthy, exercise, and be happy because they have something important to them to live for. That's also one of the biggest reason women tend to outlive men, because women are innately or culturally inclined to build and maintain those social networks (in the non-technological sense) and men are innately or culturally not.
That matters because a religious organization is like a neighborhood extended family. You meet people every week, you have a common set of beliefs, and so forth. It's a replacement for tribe, or for having most of your real extended family all live in the same town. Atheists generally don't have that. I've considered joining a Unitarian Universalist (UU) Church for this very reason. The UU is so wide open they'll let atheists, Muslims, Jews, anybody join and there's no conversion process to their religion. So you can be an atheist UU member without contradiction or any hassle from the other members. When my wife and I tried it for a bit we liked it, but not enough to sacrifice an hour every Sunday morning.
While I'm rambling, I will add that statistically conservative Americans are generally happier than liberals. I wonder if that's tied to religious affiliation too. I do not know for sure but I suspect more conservatives that are religious attend church every week than their liberal counterparts, and thus they get more of the community connection benefits.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by SomeGuy on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:18PM (7 children)
Exactly, and the ***REAL*** problem is there are few social networks outside of religion, primarily due to how pervasive it is.
In an alternate universe where zeppelins fill the sky and nobody has ever heard of religion, there would be large numbers of state and privately run "recreation" centers. More people would physically gather together to share their general hobbies and interests.
TFA read more like "oh, you should worship our imaginary child molesting sky fairy to live longer", and it totally misses the root problem.
"A study finds..." yeish.
(Score: 3, Funny) by coolgopher on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:33PM
Oh come now! There's Facebook and Insta and Twitter and Linkedin and Tinder and...
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:43PM (1 child)
Is that like a makerspace? Or more like a sports bar?
In which of them would you think you'll find more people physically gathered together?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:04PM
There's the old British model of the private club, or perhaps the pub at the end of the street.
People would congregate there far more than once a week.
In the US we tend towards social clubs, Elks Moose, Lions (ooh my!) VFW, etc.
There's sewing clubs, hackers clubs, and pickup basketball.
While I find this study rather suspect, and rather self serving, (obituaries are hardly reliable sources of information) that still doesn't explain why there is a difference between regular clubs, social groups or neighbors, and religious participation.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:15PM (2 children)
*cough*
Try the obverse of that coin. Religion is so pervasive because there aren't any other communities willing or able to fill the role. You mention a root problem? Maybe the root problem is, so very damned few people care about the people around them. Those who do care, and seek out like minded people, find themselves in churches.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:01PM (1 child)
An interesting idea that simply doesn't hold up. If it were true I'd expect a lot more good coming out of church groups, but instead they are almost always cultish social groups. Just an extension of tribalism, with some of the most vile humans hiding amongst "god's sheep".
*cough* maybe you're just an insecure fool who doesn't want to realize the truth about your own "tribe"? The answers are right there in the summary, give people solid community and healthy living practices and SHOCKER on average people who listen to the advice live longer! Maybe you shouldn't go re-up your whiskey glass.
(Score: 2, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:57PM
We get it - you hate Christians. You envy their community, their power, their self assurance, their inner peace. Don't like Christians? Don't associate with them.
Meanwhile, despite all their faults, Christians tend to be community oriented. Christians seek, and give help within the community. Better Christians offer help to those outside of their own communities. But, you've got to remember something. Christians aren't perfect. They are just forgiven.
My own tribe? You apparently read my posts pretty selectively. I've left the "tribe" behind. I'm not a member. I subscribe to many of the beliefs shared by most Christian communities, but I stand apart from any of the communities.
As an incidental - whatever has made you think that I am a drinking man?
So - which tribe to you belong to? Why do you hate Christians? Please, expound upon your misbeliefs, lack of belief, false beliefs, and more. Do you believe in beliefs?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:22PM
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Religion has become a substituite for recreation in many people's eyes.
As a result, people who are not religious are alienated and suicides and mass murders go up because of lack of social structure.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:10PM (1 child)
I'll just say, as a former UU, and as someone related to a UU minister, you don't have to go every Sunday morning if you don't feel like it, and nobody will look down on you for doing that. Also, UUs vary a lot by congregation, so if there are multiple churches in your area you might do some shopping around.
Another reason to consider it is if you have little ones, because the UU education programs cover things like:
- An overview of all of the major world religions, including sometimes meeting the kids from other religious groups in town.
- A comprehensive sex education program that covers a lot of stuff the public schools leave out.
- Ethics, both from religious and non-religious viewpoints.
The joke that best describes the vibe: If you cross a UU with a Jehovah's Witness, you'll get somebody who knocks on your door and says "So what do you think about religion?"
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:41PM
Thanks. I was aware of those things, but I felt like we would attend so infrequently that we would miss most of the benefits. If you show up once every six weeks, even if everyone is welcoming you're not going to develop much of the same camaraderie you would get for being regulars.
That said, the kids' eyes glaze over when I bring up most discussions of ethics and ethical dilemmas. If being in a different context surrounded by other kids as they go over the same topics would get them more engaged, then it would be useful.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:11PM (2 children)
"not enough to sacrifice an hour every Sunday morning. "
In the context of your post, that is kinda funny. You were looking for an "extended family", but weren't willing to sacrifice an hour a week? And, uhhh, how solid a community were you expecting in return for just an hour per week?
In context, I think it fair to say that you wanted to be a hanger-on, but reap the rewards of a fully committed member of the community.
No, I'm not trying to be judgemental. Fact is, I'm very much the same. I was a member of a community. I reaped some of the rewards mentioned. But, eventually, it seemed to be too much bother to make the effort to remain part of that community. Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evening, answer the phone and respond to minor emergencies, cough up a dollar or twenty when another member really needs it, on and on it goes. Bear in mind that I'm not very social, and it does get to be a burden. Don't get me wrong, the tradeoffs are more than worth it to most people. But, I'm not really that kind of person.
Or, to shorten all of that up, "You get out of it what you put into it." An investment of one hour per week is likely to return relatively little.
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:31PM (1 child)
I'm sure my answer to this is extremely typical, but I'm just too busy. I have four kids, two dogs, and an insomniac wife. So between soccer, rugby, football, dance, gymnastics, Girl Scouts, chorus, band, and the fact that my wife works some weekends and sleeps others... dragging everyone somewhere at 10 AM on a Sunday doesn't fly. At that time of day I'm usually out grocery shopping.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:43PM
The little quote at the bottom of the page says,
"All most men really want in life is a wife, a house, two kids and a car, a cat, no maybe a dog. Ummm, scratch one of the kids and add a dog. Definitely a dog."
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:43PM (1 child)
I don't think religion is the main reason why "statistically conservative Americans are generally happier than liberals". Remember, there are non-religious conservatives (Anonymous Coward for example) and there are religious liberals (Pope Francis for example).
How can you be happy if you are constantly feeling guilty for your privilege and for the historical battles won by your ancestors? Stuff like white guilt is self-hate.
Chasing after dates for polygamy is depressing:
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=26017&cid=691417 [soylentnews.org]
Knowing that your "friends" will instantly turn on you for wrongthink (see Kayne West) would make a person unhappy.
Conservatives tend to get their lives neatly in order. Don't knock it. You know where you will be sleeping and who you will be sleeping with. You know how the bills will get paid.
Liberals have jealousy/envy toward those who are better off. This is a cause of unhappiness. Conservatives are more willing to accept how things are, taking pride in their own accomplishments. Liberals are less able to take pride in their accomplishments; it was "the system" or "their privilege".
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:03PM
Real leftists don't feel guilt over their ancestor's misdeeds or gloat over their ancestor's accomplishments; they know that the past is a thing to be learned from so that we can avoid emulating it in the future. None of my ancestors are documented in history as owning slaves, but even if they were, so what? It's unconscionable to hold a man responsible for the crimes of another, and idiotic to feel guilt for sins you haven't committed. Feeling anger over crimes inflicted upon your forbears is just as pointless and stupid - that's just playing the victim because you'd like to feel special and nothing makes the immature feel more special than persecution, whether real or merely perceived.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @09:53AM
But, of course, they stay dead longer, and more deader than others. I mean, resurrection? or T-virus? Brains! Brains!~ Wisconson! Brains!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Snospar on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:38AM (7 children)
So they managed to live for 4 more boring years, praying and meditating... and they're the winners?
Huge thanks to all the Soylent volunteers without whom this community (and this post) would not be possible.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:54AM (3 children)
Lots of Christians consume wine on a regular basis as part of their religious practice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_alcohol#Christianity [wikipedia.org]
As for sex with many partners Islam allows 4 wives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygyny_in_Islam [wikipedia.org]
See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%27ah [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misyar_marriage [wikipedia.org]
And if you're US White Evangelical it apparently doesn't matter what your religion actually says. See Trump: http://time.com/5161349/president-trump-white-evangelical-support-slaveholders/ [time.com]
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:31PM (2 children)
And I've asked about it... and it almost never happens. Only the rich can afford that and that same thing happens in non-Muslim nations as adultery is not exactly frowned upon anymore.
Also, ask the polygamist Mormons about that too and they will argue they can have more than 4 wives.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:49PM
FTFY
for the sake of your self-consistence and my pedantry (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:23PM
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:16PM
First off, don't knock meditating until you've tried it. There's real evidence [nih.gov] it improves quality of your life as well as its length.
Second, having a longer retirement means more time to screw around doing pretty much whatever you damn well please while collecting your old age pension. I don't see that as a bad thing.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 1) by exaeta on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:38PM (1 child)
I suspect it's mostly due to beng less likely to abuse alcohol given how harmful it is.
I wonder if the study would show the same result if they controlled for alcohol and illegal drugs. A lot of people don't realise it, but ethanol (ethyl alcohol, also known as drinking alcohol) is a potent drug. It's affects are numerous and varied, but it depresses the central nervous system, causes brain damage (especially at high doses), causes liver damage, and can be used for legitimate medical treatment such as treatment of methanol poisoning because it interferes with methanol metabolism (methanol itself is only mildly directly toxic, it's mainly a protoxin which is metabolised by the liver to become far more toxic substances, (although it's still a CNS depressant even without this protoxic effect), which is why ethyl alcohol is ussd as an antidote as it competes with methyl alcohol for metabolization by the liver). I think that if people were more educated about ethanol's effects they would be less likely to consume it for recreational purposes. It causes a lot of damage. Most people bought into the misleading truth that wine reduces the risk of heart problems (while true, non-alcoholic red grape juice provides the same benefit without the risks of ethanol).
IANAD - I am not a doctor.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 1) by exaeta on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:00PM
*effects
I apologize for any other mistakes. I typed this on mobile.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: 4, Touché) by Aiwendil on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:39AM (7 children)
With apologies to calvin and hobbes. But do the lifespan increase exceed the time spent with religious practices (incl travel time to and from)?
Btw, 4 years average out to about 438h/year (if you would live about 80 years without the extra four years). So that means if the extra time spent due to religion exceeds about 80minutes/day (~8.5h/week) you end up at a net loss.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:56AM (1 child)
(Score: 3, Touché) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:41PM
No they're doing it wrong because they don't know what to do with it. Experience counts.
(Score: 3, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:00AM (4 children)
You make it sound really very dull. But I think church is so nice. I am Presbyterian Protestant. When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed. I think in terms of "let’s go on and let’s make it right." President Obama said something I really like, he said "I'm more interested in looking forward than I am in looking backwards." He forgave. And that's what church is all about. Plus the wine & cracker!!!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Gaaark on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:42AM
"Plus the wine & cracker!!!"
And the children...all those children the parents trust us with......FOOLS!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:21PM
Have you ever tried prunes?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:26PM
Over here at The Peoples Temple they give us Kool-Aid.
(Score: 2) by Aiwendil on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:56PM
The cracker thing are for wimps - I know people that are into vore* :)
Think about that the next time someone dressed in fancy robes tells you to munch down on a jewish carpenter ;)
(* Vorarephilia)
(Score: 5, Touché) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:52AM (13 children)
So they get less time to enjoy the afterlife?
Perhaps atheists wear their brains out faster because they use them more.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:04AM (12 children)
Your brain does seem to be wearing out though. Too much anesthesia?
(Score: 3, Touché) by Gaaark on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:39AM (8 children)
Whoa...math hard!
If you die at 1 years old, you go into the after life 80 years sooner than someone who dies at 81, so yeah....duh...you get to the after life sooner and enjoy it longer (even if it is infinite, you get there Infinite+80 years sooner).
Not that hard to understand.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:50PM (7 children)
No, the 80 years come before the infinitely many years, and therefore they don't make a difference, even if doing ordinal arithmetic (they never make a difference for cardinal arithmetic anyway).
If x is an infinite number, any infinite number, then 80+x=x.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:34PM (5 children)
Sigh
You die right now: you have started Infinity now.
I die 80 years from now, I don't start infinity for another 80 years.
INFINITY does not even enter ANY equation for another 80 years for me.
80 + X = 80 AND X, not "forget you lived 80 years altogether, you've ALWAYS been infinite, it doesn't matter WHEN you die, lol"
(Or is your God a douche and only pretends you live and die.)
It's called an 'after life' for a reason.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:01PM (3 children)
It's just that you don't understand infinity.
The 80 years do matter for the (finite) life before death. They don't make a difference for the supposed infinite life after death.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:14PM (2 children)
Well see, now you're agreeing with both her AND me:
"The 80 years do matter for the (finite) life before death. "
If you live for 80 years before dying THEN you enter the after life.
If you die right now, you will enter the after life (and Infinity) RIGHT NOW.
x=after life (infinity)
80, then x = 80 before "...they get ... to enjoy the afterlife?"
So they get less time to enjoy the afterlife! (as she said). Infinity does not start UNTIL you die.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 23 2018, @07:36PM (1 child)
How do you know when the afterlife starts?
Maybe everyone starts it at the same time, regardless of when they die.
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday June 23 2018, @08:51PM
Now we're just heading into sillyville.
Let's call it the 'after LIFE' because it starts for EVERYONE ever born and yet TO be born at the exact fucking same time, yeah.....yeah. That's makes perfect sense.
We won't call it the after LIFE because it starts when you die....that would be just dumb.
Done here.
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:39PM
I wish the entire lot of you pedants would die right now. Just sayin'.
(Score: 1) by exaeta on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:10PM
I've always taken the position that "Infinity" is a condition-set of equations or bounds rather than a "number". If you adopt the principle that nothing can be equal to infinity and only a member of the "infinite set" you can do very useful tranformations on infinite series that yield correct results but produce "infinite" values as intermediates. Under "infinity is a number" logic, if sigma i=0; infinity; f(x) is equal to infinity, you cann't do any operations on it. So if I have two values X and Y and both are "infinity" then X - Y is undefined. But you can say instead that X and Y are members of the infinite set and subtract them, then get a finite value out. i.e., just because X and Y are members of infinity, it does not follow that X = Y.
The Government is a Bird
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:23PM (2 children)
Islam is a fake religion, Mohammed was a false prophet and Muslims are going to hell! [reddit.com]
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:40PM (1 child)
Fascinating. Link to a discussion about Pastafarianism on an ex-muslim board and get modded "flamebait". Presumably from a moderator that has no problem being openly critical of Christianity -- there'll be no redemption from the Flying Spaghetti Monster for such hypocritical moderators.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:05PM
Nah, just someone who took the post at face value instead of investigating the link to find out it is a joke.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @10:54AM (4 children)
Better to die sooner as a lonely free thinker than to live longer listening to fools trying to brainwash you with their mythology.
(Score: 4, Funny) by Gaaark on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:40AM
Amen, brother!
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @12:56PM (2 children)
How do you know that being brainwashed in the right way isn't the best for humans?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:47PM (1 child)
It's like humans getting cowpox first before being exposed to smallpox. Better to have them stuck in something fairly harmless than catch something worse.
You may prefer them to be atheists but lots of people have this need to belong to something greater, some to feel better/holier than others. If it's not religion it's something else. There's not much difference between eco-terrorists and religious extremists...
Not so convinced that Islam is that harmless. If people followed closely the example of Muhammad they'd be worse by modern standards. In contrast if someone followed closely the example of one of the Buddhas they'd be harmless.
[1] e.g. the ones where the followers seem more like sheep than wolves. e.g. those who go about quietly doing good deeds rather than yelling "DIE HEATHEN/BLASPHEMER/ETC!".
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:25PM
Your post rates an "AMEN, BROTHER!" and an up mod.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:03AM
Because then you could have your Life cut short when religious people throw you off a roof
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:09AM
And spank the monkey.
And take drugs.
And kill people.
And rape.
And murder.
And steal.
Being religious does not prevent a person from being evil. It is not a condom for the soul.
The living longer part may come from being forced to be moderate.
Pity the kill some people just for leaving their kind. Oh well.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by opinionated_science on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:12AM (4 children)
Mining obits for data?
After someone dies, it is tradition to say something nice and short.
Especially, when they charge by the word...
(Score: 3, Informative) by looorg on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:37AM (1 child)
It does seem to be a very limited dataset. Also not everyone bothers with an obituary anymore, the people that do tend to be the religious crowd. It's an announcement to their social circle that you have passed on to the great afterlife. People that don't believe in the magical saving power of zombie Jebuz might not bother so your entire data is probably horribly skewed.
Obituaries might also be a very christian thing, so it removes large amounts of other faiths. It might have been interesting to see for example if different affiliations had differences in longevity. But overall from what they say in the article it probably has a lot more to do with social networks instead of the magical healing properties of Jebuz or whatever deity you pray to.
(Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:43PM
That was definitely my first thought.
I'm an atheist. I definitely do not want an obituary.
I eat healthy, excersize, sleep enough... and I would not be included in this data set.
(Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:57PM (1 child)
Also, social media is rendering traditional obituaries obsolete.
If they can't even be arsed to get the freely available morality statistics from health departments, I can't be arsed to pay attention to this "study".
"Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
(Score: 3, Touché) by looorg on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:46PM
The morality statistics are the best, big government keeping that list of sinners up to date. Who has been naughty and who has been nice.
Sorry! I normally have horrible spelling in large amounts of posts I make, so I really shouldn't be poking fun at others but this one was just to entertaining ... :)
(Score: 2) by crafoo on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:22AM (1 child)
Being part of a community is natural and healthy. Someone will know their name, miss them when the aren't at church, and maybe send someone around to check on them. Or they just might talk regularly, or at least more often, with other people of their faith than a lonely isolated atheist would.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:26PM
Exactly. Social isolation is what a church solves. And Internet has actually been driving more social isolation "in-disguise"
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @11:53AM (3 children)
People with religious affiliations live forever.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:01PM
But it typically takes a few hundred years in the eternity until they recognize that this is actually a punishment. ;-)
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:55PM (1 child)
Depends on your karma. If it's bad enough, you may be reincarnated quite quickly as a lower form. (grin)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:19PM
What's lower form? If suffering is really the problem, and the goal is the cessation of suffering, and the root of suffering is desire wouldn't humans suffer more than a virus? Viruses likely have far fewer desires than humans. If so wouldn't viruses be higher forms and closer to nirvana than humans? And humans one of the lowest forms?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/beliefs/fournobletruths_1.shtml [bbc.co.uk]
So I do disagree a bit with Buddhism with its obsession with ending suffering and getting out of this world. To me both desire and suffering aren't such bad things. Unnecessary/useless suffering is the problem. It's like pain. Pain can be useful. Without pain you would damage yourself more. But chronic pain is a problem when there is no real problem or when the problem is already known and being addressed (or can't be fixed). The mindfulness stuff is good stuff though.
Last but not least often there's growth that you can't get without suffering.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:05PM (1 child)
Has anyone already checked whether Apple believers or Linux evangelists live longer than the average computer user? :-)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:19PM
If Jobs is any example to go by comparing longevity to Gates. . .
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:09PM
Ignorance is bliss.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @01:52PM (2 children)
Something is missing here.
Otherwise, expanding it to the world would mean that people in Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Pakistan and other very religious places should live longer than people in Scandinavia and other mostly non-religious places.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:21PM
If they hadn't already normalised for regional differences, how would the result be meaningful?
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:21PM
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Tuesday June 19 2018, @02:35PM
> was calculated after taking into account the sex and marital status of those who died, two factors that have strong effects on lifespan.
Might as well write article "Religious people are middle class". Gah.
Social "Science"
(Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday June 19 2018, @03:44PM (10 children)
It is unfortunate that there are so many bitter comments here against something that has been observed by many to increase lifespan and happiness. We could debate endlessly and not convince each other, no matter how much negativity is expressed.
But I can say from personal experience and long observation of generations, including reading journals of prior generations: my religion is a good influence in every part of my life and that of those I know. Including as illustrated by a recent gathering (memorial for a deceased atheist or buddhist spouse) organized by some relatives who have not chosen to keep their near ancestors' Christian religion, but who multiply expressed deep appreciation for members of their family who have helped them through hard times. As I looked around the small gathering in a home, I saw who they were talking about: individuals who went through hard times themselves, sacrificing ease and conveniences, to unselfishly help neighbors and raise children who go on to care for others, trying, however imperfectly.
It is easier to tear down or criticize, than to build multi-generational family relationships, of individuals who want to stay connected because they appreciate and want to help each other and be good to each other, and to respect and show kindness to *everyone*. That is what my religion teaches us to do! I am a Mormon, and I respect all as children of God, but especially appreciate those who, for whatever reason, try at seeking truth from a variety of sources, being honest, and practicing the Golden Rule as expressed by the major world religions.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:34PM (9 children)
While you have seemed to take a healthy perspective from your religious affiliation there are many who do not. Religion has spawned more wars and bigotry than anything else in human history. Religion is not the necessary ingredient here, the real trick comes from the people who try and make a better world.
Your religion simply gives people a banner to rally around and a set of rules created in a way that makes people think they have no choice. It is reasonably effective I'll admit, but it is really just tricking people into being decent humans when they might prefer to take some shortcuts that hurt others.
You do realize that the majority of your fellow Mormons would tell me I'm going to hell and will burn for eternity? Basically another trick that lets the religious defer most of their hatred to the afterlife. Still nasty humans wishing horrors upon the non-believers, they just don't act on it since the punishment will come in the after life and be WAY worse than anything they could do in reality.
You don't sound like one of those types, and it may be that you simply can't see the forest for the trees. I have met many religious types, and they are often very nice people until you get to know enough and see the dark edges.
(Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:39PM
I have traveled some over the years, met many, and I don't believe others would say that to you. Nor is it the official doctrine or teachings or in the manuals or culture. There are consequences for actions, justice AND mercy, and opportunity for all to make informed choices.
(Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday June 19 2018, @05:42PM (7 children)
Sadly, many who wanted to fight a war or do other bad things have used religion as an excuse, which didn't necessarily make it right. Some people doing wrong doesn't mean true principles are wrong. God is our Father and has a plan, and gives commandments for our happiness, but gives us agency to choose right or wrong, for ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @08:25PM (6 children)
Mormon wars? Missouri, or Utah?
(Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday June 19 2018, @08:49PM
Sometimes self-defense makes sense, such as if others continually chase you and your loved ones out. Obviously there is more to the story than a few words. I recommend reading up on why people were willing to sacrifice so much -- lds.org and other sources have much documentation.
(Score: 1) by lcall on Tuesday June 19 2018, @08:52PM (4 children)
I again recommend getting information from a variety of sources, then deciding which are most likely trustworthy.
(Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday June 20 2018, @05:06PM (3 children)
Or find out for yourself, in person, about the nature of the Church.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @07:49PM (2 children)
I am just happy that the Church of Jesus H. Christ Ladder Day Saints has finally apologized for decades of racism!
https://religionnews.com/2018/05/17/fake-mormon-news-story-goes-viral-claiming-the-lds-church-has-apologized-for-racism/ [religionnews.com]
(Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday June 20 2018, @08:08PM
More info here: https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood [lds.org]
(Score: 1) by lcall on Wednesday June 20 2018, @08:11PM
It appears you did not look at the link you posted about racism.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 19 2018, @04:35PM
People's mind change all the time. The study doesn't count the people who said "god, please don't let me die. I believe in you! " and died anyway.