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Debian Jesse is going to have Gnome3 as the default desktop.
The desktop re-qualification page, used to help choose which desktop will be default, has in the Jesse version a weight for systemd integration, and of course only Gnome3 does it (at least for now). This will surely make the systemd/gnome3 fanbase happy, but possibly will make others unhappy, as it [may] be seen as another step towards mono-culture, until we soon end up with all distros being redhat clones.
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Integration with systemd Making Gnome3 the Default Debian Desktop
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Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A: A stick.
(Score: 2) by buswolley on Wednesday September 24 2014, @07:49AM
Add a flamebait topic!
but...some topics are worrty of enduring flames.
subicular junctures
(Score: 5, Informative) by Marand on Wednesday September 24 2014, @08:30AM
Is it still flamebait when it's accurate? If you look deeper at the "requalification" info, the integrity of the whole thing appears dubious. For example, the accessibility team declared MATE to be the best for accessibility, but on the table it got the same +1 as GNOME. Also, it considers "systemd integration" a necessary bonus, when it's something only GNOME has, due to GNOME devs deliberately tying them together. Nobody else is going to get a ranking there because the other DEs try to remain init-agnostic, which makes it a bullshit metric that exists solely to push GNOME ahead.
They don't even have results yet for internationalisation, portability, or install size, and it's already "80% sure" that GNOME will win. No shit? That's what happens when you massage the data to support the desired outcome.
Some other statements of questionable merit:
• Systemd/etc integration: Xfce, Mate, etc are stuck paying catch-up to ongoing changes in this area. -- no shit, that's what happens when systemd and GNOME are inextricably tied together. Same reason wine is perpetually playing catch-up to windows.
• Since gnome 3 was the default in the previous release, existing Debian users should find it consistent to use it for jessie. -- GNOME 2 was the default for a lot longer than that, so why not MATE?
• I'm not sure [gnome]'s friendly for users with low visual capabilities . . . The problem is: not customisable enough, no magnifying possible with the needed quality, not enough visual customisations -- This doesn't sound like +1 to GNOME accessibility to me.
I'm a KDE user, but if anything, I think MATE would be a better default than the alternatives, considering the accessibility and familiarity aspects.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 24 2014, @12:17PM
systemd integration should be considered a negative, and any desktop offering it should be penalized. Any desktop requiring it should be penalized even more. systemd needs to be quarantined and marginalized. Any desktop that isn't helping in that effort needs to be quarantined and marginalized, too.
(Score: 2) by gallondr00nk on Wednesday September 24 2014, @12:42PM
I'd really like to know what happened to keeping the init system separate from the desktop environment. What was the harm in it?
What's missing from the Systemd debate is what Linux as a whole actually gets out of it. I havn't seen this quantified in any meaningful way. Is it faster boot times? Better stability? A more user friendly or elegant init system? More features?
I mostly use the BSDs, and so don't follow Linux user groups or mailing lists that closely. Are people communicating with the community at large about what all this disruption is in aid of?
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 24 2014, @01:12PM
Spurious technical non-arguments are presented as indisputable fact in response to even the most balanced criticisms. So while there is often some form of "communication", the systemd camp have been incapable of responding with anything more than a dictatorial "because fuck you". Add resentment over the pushiness and dubious politics taking place and it seems the schism isn't going to be resolved amicably. The "fuck you" attitude having become mutual across both camps.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 24 2014, @03:43PM
why haven't there been any physical beat downs. These fucks took over everything and banned anyone opposed. They need to be hurt.
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday September 24 2014, @03:18PM
The primary thing systemd has going for it is faster boot times because you skip all the script interpretation overhead and the ability to fork off services that are not interdependent.
The problems depend on who you ask. The main one that annoys me is, well, I liked having scripts for services. It makes it very easy to see exactly what's going on when a process starts or stops, and it's very easy to modify and create new custom services. You just need to know basic shell scripting. It's also easy to backtrack. Want to know how a certain service is being started? Just grep through /etc/init.d. You'll find it. On systemd they're all started in the same way. You just have a config file that tells systemd what options you want, but you can't just add to the start up process for a service. It's also very, very poorly documented. So we went from easy to understand and modify scripts to poorly designed and poorly documented inflexible config files. Oh, and then instead of just logging all the output to text files, it uses a freaking binary log that has to be read with another systemd program, journald. So now you can't just grep through your logs, or have a daemon that just sits watching the tail of a log file for certain events.
You combine all of that shit and it's just not very "UNIX-y." "The UNIX way" is for programs to do one (or few) things and do them very well, and output text. Then you can string together small, simple programs to accomplish complex tasks. Systemd, on the other hand, is monolithic and obfuscated.
I use it (I run Debian 7.6 Wheezy), and it's "fine." I'm not on a holy war against it. But to be honest I'd be happier with init.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 24 2014, @06:00PM
Wheezy is sysv
(Score: 2) by metamonkey on Wednesday September 24 2014, @06:35PM
Oh. Then I must have been thinking of my other box that runs fedora.
Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 24 2014, @01:39PM
Another weird statement:
So, it's fine, but because the number after Gnome is "2" and not "3" , it's regressing ? biased much ?
(Score: 2) by tempest on Wednesday September 24 2014, @02:46PM
I tend to agree when the topics of systemd or firefox failure crop up. But in the case of systemd, it's reassuring to see the number of vocal people against it, and know I'm not the only one finding this process dubious. I like unix because of the philosophy, and it's nice to know I'm not alone - which I'd almost believe considering the astounding speed systemd was adopted in a far from perfect state.
It's interesting how far the gnome group has upped the ante. They stuck by a desktop which became increasingly unpopular due to their decisions, have essentially hijacked GTK, and now enter a symbiotic relationship with the init system. If this doesn't work out, there's will be one massive crater left behind when it crashes and burns. They'll have no plan B. I suppose it's also possible the gnome ecosystem will become something like Android: "Linux" but not really; its own separate thing.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday September 24 2014, @04:03PM
"If this doesn't work out, there's will be one massive crater left behind when it crashes and burns. They'll have no plan B."
My very blunt, brutal, and honest opinion is some journalist, if there still are any of those left in the world, needs to follow the money where-ever it leads, after first reading and understanding the results of a google search for "embrace extend extinguish".
I have this gut feeling that someone has a collection of submarine patents like "embedding an NTP daemon in an init system" or "centralized binary logging" and once the alternatives are finally extinguished in the E E E strategy the doors will slam open and the patent trolls will roar across the countryside like the epic battle at the end of the LOTR trilogy. Or the start for that matter.
Personally, when the orcs are unleashed, I intend to be safe and secure at home and work with ... something else. Something from the age before Sauron took over with the one ring to bind them all, or perhaps a totally new plane of existence like the *BSD.
I have no idea how I will be able to survive not having USB 3.0 hot plugging on my DNS server, or without embedding init into a desktop environment you couldn't pay me enough to use, but I'm sure I'll get by somehow like I always did.
(Score: 2) by DECbot on Wednesday September 24 2014, @05:15PM
I have no idea how I will be able to survive not having USB 3.0 hot plugging on my DNS server, or without embedding init into a desktop environment you couldn't pay me enough to use...
But just thing of all the vulnerabilities and forced marches that you'll miss out on.
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base