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posted by Blackmoore on Monday December 08 2014, @09:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain dept.

I've been hinting around about this for a week or two, so here it is. I circulated this proposal around the staff mailing list before Thanksgiving and got nobody telling me it sucks and to die in a fire, so it falls to you lot to do it if necessary. Let's be clear beforehand though. This is not a complete solution; no meta-mod consideration included for instance. Nor is it a permanent change. What it is is an experiment. Unless you lot are overwhelmingly opposed, we'll run it for a month or two and either keep it, keep parts of it, or trash it entirely based on staff and community feedback. We're not the other site and this isn't Beta; what we as a community want is what's going to happen.

So, here's the deal with the bit that's likely to be most controversial right out front. Bad downmods and mod-bombing both suck hardcore but you can't really get rid of them and still have downmods even with meta-moderation because you still have the same ideologically driven few who think Troll/Flamebait/Overrated means Disagree. To that end, I converted all the downmods to +0 mods and added a proper Disagree +0 mod. They affect neither score of the comment nor karma of the commenter but will show up beside the comment score (and be subject to user adjustment from their comments preferences page) if they hold a majority vote. It'll be entirely possible, for instance, to have a +5 Troll comment and equally possible that the same comment will show as -1 Troll to someone who has Troll set to -6 in their preferences.

Underrated and Overrated are also out. For Underrated, I for one would really like to know why you think it's underrated. For Overrated, it was almost exclusively used as Disagree, which we now have.

Second, everyone who's been registered for a month or more gets five mod points a day. We're not getting enough mods on comments to suit the number of comments; this should have been tweaked a while back but we quite frankly just let it slip through the cracks. Also, the zero-mod system will need the extra points to reliably push comments from +5 insightful to +5 Flamebait if they warrant it. We may end up tweaking this number as necessary to find the right balance during The Experiment.

Third, we're introducing a new Spam mod. As of this writing it's a -1 to comment score and a -10 to the commenter's karma; this may very well change. Sounds easily abused, yeah? Not so much. Every comment with this mod applied to it will have a link out beside the score that any staff with editor or above clearance on the main site (this excludes me by the way) can simply click to undo every aspect of the spam moderation and ban the moderator(s) who said it was from moderating. First time for a month, second time for six months; these also are arbitrary numbers that could easily change. So, what qualifies as spam so you don't inadvertently get mod-banned?

  • Proper spam. Anything whose primary purpose is advertisement.
  • HOSTS/GNAA/etc... type posts. Recurring, useless annoyances we're all familiar with.
  • Posts so offtopic and lacking value to even be a troll that they can't be called anything else. See here for an example.

Caveats about banning aside, if something is really spam, please use the mod. It will make it much, much easier for us to find spam posts and attempt to block the spammers. One SELECT statement period vs one per post level of easier.

Lastly, if I can find it and change it in time for thorough testing on dev, we'll be doing away with mod-then-post in favor of mod-and-post. Without proper downmods, there's really just no point in limiting you on when you can moderate a comment.

Right, that's pretty much it. Flame or agree as the spirit moves you. Suggestions will all be read and considered but getting them debated, coded, and tested before the January release will be a bit tricky for all but the exceedingly simple ones.

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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Monday December 08 2014, @10:25PM

    by maxwell demon (1608) on Monday December 08 2014, @10:25PM (#123900) Journal

    Here's how I understand the Overrated mod:

    Imagine that you see a post e.g. at +5 Insightful, and you think that it is indeed insightful, but does not deserve a +5, because it is not that insightful. Then it is overrated.

    I indeed see little value in Underrated. It was valuable at Slashdot because there Funny didn't get Karma; if you considered something funny enough that you wanted to give the author Karma for it, but didn't want to misuse other moderations like Insightful for it, then Underrated was a good option. As I understand it, here Funny gives Karma (as was originally the case also on Slashdot), so using Underrated for that purpose is not necessary.

    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +1  
       Interesting=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Interesting' Modifier   0  
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 1) by codermotor on Monday December 08 2014, @11:44PM

    by codermotor (166) on Monday December 08 2014, @11:44PM (#123939)

    Exactly. If we're going to take the teeth out of over- and under-rated, then I'd like to see more Reason options (e.g. "redundant", "needs citation", "lacks clarity", ad hominem, etc.).

    Often I use over- and under-rated mods because none of the other options quite fit my reason for the mod. Maybe we need something that will cut down on the "Me too!" posts (like this one? ;) ).

    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday December 09 2014, @01:54AM

      by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <> on Tuesday December 09 2014, @01:54AM (#123999) Homepage Journal

      Needs Citation may very well go in. Was wondering how to word that.

      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 1) by BK on Tuesday December 09 2014, @02:05AM

        by BK (4868) on Tuesday December 09 2014, @02:05AM (#124006)

        Like this [].

        ...but you HAVE heard of me.
        • (Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Tuesday December 09 2014, @04:01PM

          by tangomargarine (667) on Tuesday December 09 2014, @04:01PM (#124211)

          Or did you mean this []

          "Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
  • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:04AM

    by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 09 2014, @12:04AM (#123949)
    Overrated and Underrated made a little more sense back when M2 was in place. Basically if you were available to metamod you'd be shown several random comments and were asked a yes or no question of whether you thought the moderation was fair. If enough 'no' answers accumulated on a particular moderator, he was booted out of the mod-pool. Underrated and Overrated were exempt from meta-moderation, meaning those of us that had mod points could mod a comment down even if it went against the GroupThink, no fear of consequences but it din't carry as much weight as assigning words like 'troll' or 'flamebait' to it. Bear in mind that this was during a time when Slashdot ran non-stop coverage of anti-MS stories and didn't bother to do any vetting of whether the stories were actually true or not. I often used it to mod up comments that clarified that Microsoft wasn't, in reality, a villain in that particular article.

    Oh and on an off-topic note:

    - Posts so offtopic and lacking value to even be a troll that they can't be called anything else. See here [] for an example.

    Ha ha!

    🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
    • (Score: 1) by Yog-Yogguth on Tuesday December 09 2014, @03:57AM

      by Yog-Yogguth (1862) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 09 2014, @03:57AM (#124057) Journal

      I searched and mostly found lots and lots of paper dispensers.

      Bite harder Ouroboros, bite! linux USB CD secure desktop IRC *crypt tor (not endorsements (XKeyScore))
      • (Score: 2) by Tork on Tuesday December 09 2014, @04:23AM

        by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday December 09 2014, @04:23AM (#124064)
        You mean my nickname? I was at the company bathroom, signing up for SN on my smartphone, and I looked up and saw a toilet paper dispenser with the word 'Tork' on it. I had to disable the auto-correct to log in, though.
        🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈