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As long time SoylentNews community member Marand observed during some recent discussion of severe systemd boot problems, it turns out that systemd disables the magic SysRq key.
The magic SysReq key is described at Wikipedia as:
[...] a key combination understood by the Linux kernel, which allows the user to perform various low-level commands regardless of the system's state. It is often used to recover from freezes, or to reboot a computer without corrupting the filesystem.
A Fedora user who logged a bug report for this issue back in 2013 described the problem with systemd's unexpected and harmful default setting:
As systemd depends on many files on a rootfs, in case of any problems with rootfs, it is not able to do its basic function - control processes and (cleanly) shutdown/reboot when crtl-alt-del is pressed on local keyboard. As this is a feature, I'd like to ask to enable the sysrq by default on Fedora, otherwise it is not possible to reboot system even locally in case of emergency situation.
While that Fedora bug report is set to CLOSED NOTABUG, other Linux distros, like Mageia and Debian GNU/Linux, have restored the proper behavior.
Now that this problem has come to light, all Fedora users should evaluate whether or not they need to fix their systems to work around systemd's incorrect default setting. Users of other Linux distributions using systemd should also evaluate their systems, too, in case their distro has not yet fixed this unexpected bug.
(Score: 3, Informative) by novak on Monday December 22 2014, @07:26AM
I often hear the complaint that users have no options besides systemd or BSD. Here is a quick list I got by browsing through distrowatch of linuxes which do not have systemd. I disallowed any distros based on Arch, Debian, and the like, as systemd is probably coming to them- by doing this I likely missed a few. Likewise, I used the page on distrowatch as my source of info on whether it runs systemd, so this list does not cover whether systemd is planned. Let me know if I made a mistake.
PCLinuxOS
Puppy Linux
Simplicity Linux
4MLinux
Slackware Linux
Gentoo Linux
Salix
Porteus
Alpine Linux
Tiny Core Linux
Absolute Linux
VectorLinux
LinuxConsole
SliTaz
Wifislax
Slackel
Zenwalk Linux
Pisi Linux
IPFire
CRUX
Legacy OS
AUSTRUMI
Quirky
GoboLinux
0linux
Kwort Linux
Devil-Linux
Slax
IPCop
Macpup
TouTou Linux
AgiliaLinux
Vine Linux
Thinstation
Turbolinux
Dragora GNU/Linux-Libre
Foresight Linux
openmamba GNU/Linux
Supurb Mini Server
Draco GNU/Linux
Ophcrack LiveCD
Plamo Linux
Burapha Linux Server
NuTyX
Zencafe GNU/Linux
Voidlinux
novak
(Score: 2) by Subsentient on Monday December 22 2014, @09:43AM
And a huge percentage of these are minimalist distributions that are not easily expanded to the size, of, say, Fedora.
There isn't a huge amount of choice for full-blown-desktop users like myself.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 1) by schad on Monday December 22 2014, @03:29PM
For better or for worse, that's likely to be the case from now on. If you want to use Linux as a desktop machine, your best bet is to go for completely different paradigms. Stuff like the *boxes (fluxbox, openbox), Enlightenment, and so on. Those will probably always be systemd-free. I don't see much desire on either side to start sharing functionality with GNOME or any other "mainstream" DE.
I do recommend trying alternative DEs like LXDE or E. The key to success is to use them the way they're supposed to be used. Don't try to take your existing workflow and make it work in them. For LXDE, I was happiest when I stopped trying to avoid the CLI. I had this idea in my head that if I was using a DE I shouldn't ever have to use the command line. Well, that's the way Windows users think. In Windows, the CLI is awful, so of course you never want to use it. In Linux, though, the CLI is amazingly powerful and has an incredibly rich suite of tools that's been developed (and polished) for nearly 30 years. Don't run away from the CLI, embrace it! Use it for all the things it's good at, and use the GUI for the things it's good at. That's when you really see the power of Linux (or, really, Unix generally). Everything you do in Windows must fit into the GUI paradigm, because it's the only one Windows does even remotely well. In Linux you have no such limitation.
(Score: 2) by novak on Monday December 22 2014, @05:20PM
No, unfortunately. If you want to replace a desktop OS try either a slackware based distro like Zenwalk or Salix, or PCLinuxOS if you want something a little bigger.
novak
(Score: 2) by Hyper on Monday December 22 2014, @10:37AM
Debian is dead. Long live Debian.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by RedBear on Monday December 22 2014, @10:43AM
Posting a list of alternate Linux distros that just happen to still be systemd-free right at this exact moment is completely missing the point. Besides the fact that a lot of these minor Linux distributions are made for narrow, specialized purposes, they are often based on a snapshot of a larger, more established distribution like Debian. They share "DNA" with one or more parent distributions, so to speak. As many have said, systemd is spreading out and rapidly infecting things exactly like a cancer. The next time any of those minor distros feel like taking a new snapshot of their base distro, they will become infected with systemd as well. And this is even before taking into account the inevitable encroachment of developers who have bought into systemd as being a good idea, who will soon start to only maintain the systemd-requiring versions of their software, thus forcing many minor "from-scratch" Linux distros to eventually contemplate adding systemd just to maintain some relevance in the overall Linux scene.
No, there is good reason why so many people are talking about completely walking away from Linux as a platform, because unlike other platforms like BSD, the Linux platform has failed to reject the very idea of what systemd is doing to the platform. Eventually I believe it will take monumental effort to avoid systemd anywhere in the Linux world, and people just don't feel like wasting that kind of time when they can just jump over to a BSD or even Windows and end up getting more productive work done. It is my considered opinion at this point that systemd is eventually going to end up basically being the death knell of Linux as a popular desktop/server platform. It may not become blindingly obvious until several years from now, but I believe that we will all look back and collectively agree that the advent of systemd was the inflection point in Linux's popularity. Unless of course Linux can somehow reverse course and divest itself of systemd completely and be reborn, but I don't foresee that happening. That's the only possible thing that will bring back any of the folks who are "jumping ship" right now to other platforms. But it would require a very deep and fundamental reevaluation of the core principles of the entire Linux platform.
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 22 2014, @01:51PM
This AC is one datum in exactly the scenario you described. I'm a happy Mint user, but its increasingly looking like I'll be better off going back to Win7, or relearning BSD once systemd becomes integrated into Mint to the point where I can't avoid it.
(Score: 2) by novak on Monday December 22 2014, @05:12PM
they are often based on a snapshot of a larger, more established distribution like Debian.
If you read my post you'll see that I explicitly did not post any distros based on Debian or any other systemd-ified linux. These are all either independent or based on one not yet using systemd.
Besides the fact that a lot of these minor Linux distributions are made for narrow, specialized purposes
Many are, but you may have missed popular distros like PCLinuxOS, or quality slackware based distros like Salix and Zenwalk.
systemd is spreading out and rapidly infecting things exactly like a cancer.
Yep, there aren't a whole lot of usable distros left, unfortunately. Hence, this list. I won't be leaving linux just yet, though I will be migrating more systems to BSD. Linux is very hackable. It may be difficult to avoid systemd in the future, but I think there's enough hatred for it that people are going to have good distros for a very long time.
novak
(Score: 2) by RedBear on Monday December 22 2014, @08:13PM
I was replying to the implication I read into your post that systemd will not really be a problem. I see that you did not really mean to imply that, and we are essentially in full agreement about systemd being an issue that will be increasingly problematic going into the future. However I believe you still underestimate the peripheral poisoning effect of systemd-requiring third-party software, and how quickly it will help to spread the infection even to distros that are built from scratch and fully intend (at the moment) to remain systemd-free. Eventually, most of them will have to cave.
In order to survive, the Linux platform and community will be forced to split into two branches. One branch will embrace systemd, the other will reject it and anything resembling it (i.e., monolithic, sprawling, un-UNIX-like software). The only real question is which branch will continue calling itself "Linux".
¯\_ʕ◔.◔ʔ_/¯ LOL. I dunno. I'm just a bear.
... Peace out. Got bear stuff to do. 彡ʕ⌐■.■ʔ
(Score: 2) by novak on Tuesday December 23 2014, @10:20AM
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that systemd isn't a problem, so much as help people avoid it. I have a whole lot invested in linux and if it's going to split into minimalist and systemd factions, I'll do my best to help those on the minimal side. I will probably start using BSD entirely for servers, but for embedded, desktop, and HPC I get a lot of mileage out of linux. I'm not going to be forced out by anyone, and especially not some redhat jokers.
Systemd's infection is indeed deep, and if just a couple more distros go then nearly all will require systemd, or be derived from one that does (What's even left that people know? Maybe puppy, PCLinuxOS, and slackware?). The vast majority are already gone, and though I do hope that some deriving from debian try to stand up against it, I have no doubt that will prove increasingly difficult.
novak
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 23 2014, @02:33AM
Please, please, please... if you don't like the choices that software makes, don't campaign against the existence of things you didn't choose. Don't threaten to walk, just walk. The grass is greener, and you'll be happier. You can have the software you want, you just have to stop worrying that systemd exists in the world, and choose the OS you want to run. Go, be Free. I will stay, and remain Free, and remain pleased at the progress that is systemd.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday December 22 2014, @11:42AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 22 2014, @01:25PM
TurboLinux?! Jesus Christ, I didn't realize it was still around. The last time I remember hearing about it was... 1999!
Seriously, most of those are useless Linux distros, aside from maybe Gentoo. Even Slackware is a relic these days. A minimalist Linux distro isn't going to be able to replace Debian.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 22 2014, @03:25PM
This is beginning to annoy me. You guys/gals have not done your research. I am using, and have been using, on about 6 or 7 machines, and for a good few years, Salix: a Slackware derivative, which has a built in package manager - slapt-get, and if it isn't in that repository you can use Sourcery or spi for slapt-src which will build anything in a SlackBuild repository (similar to Gentoo). I suspect the issue is here that many are not prepared to learn new things on either side of the debate. Slackware is a damn sight easier to configure than Ubuntu, Redhat and Debian IMHO. I have tried all these and have always had problems with nis, nis+ remote nfs, ldap, etc. and invariably return to Slacking. Slack is rock solid, stable and EASY. Saying that though, if Slack gets the Systemd virus, then I will myself be moving to a *BSD. but I have been using Slack since 96 and so hope I never have to so. Other than my long history with Slack, it is also seems to be the case that device drivers are just nowhere near as comprehensive in the *BSD. However, one good side-effect of the Systemd debacle, is that this will probably change in the next few years, as more of us move over.
(Score: 2) by Blackmoore on Monday December 22 2014, @02:29PM
dig a little deeper..
sadly according to http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=gentoo [distrowatch.com]
gentoo is also infected with systemd
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Monday December 22 2014, @04:30PM
Not sure what you even mean by that. Gentoo has it disabled in the default profile. I'm against systemd about as much as anyone you'll find, but I certainly don't have a problem with allowing it as an option, just as with anything else available out there.
Gentoo has always been about choice in that way...unlike those behind systemd who create unnecessary artificial dendencies, such as Gnome etc in a malicious attempt to force their approach on the world. Systemd has in fact infected many binary distros which have decided against supporting other init systems, ONLY because these artificial dependencies have made it prohibitively difficult. How anyone wouldn't be incensed by all that is beyond me.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 23 2014, @02:37AM
If you're willing to allow me to have systemd, if your goal is not to pry it from my cold dead fingers... you're not even against it. You're just not choosing it.
You're not even mildly against it. Read the other comments. Most of these people feel that it should be stripped away from me, that I should not even be allowed to have it; that I should not have Software Freedom.
(Score: 2) by digitalaudiorock on Tuesday December 23 2014, @03:50PM
That's complete and utter fucking bullshit, and you, and everyone reading this knows so. There's only one side here trying to force anything on anyone.
(Score: 2) by novak on Monday December 22 2014, @05:17PM
Gentoo does include systemd optionally, but gentoo is better described as "a set of tools to build your own OS" than an OS itself. Of course you can have systemd in it- by definition you can have anything at all in it.
novak
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 22 2014, @11:40PM
Even just optionally supporting systemd means that Gentoo is infected by it.
The only responsible thing any Linux distribution can do is take a strong stance against systemd. The distributions leadership and maintainers need to publicly say, "We will never support systemd in any fashion." And then they need to do whatever is necessary to ensure that systemd is never supported.
Linux users and distributions need to treat systemd as malware, much like they would for other malware running on a Windows system. It shouldn't be "optionally supported". It should be banished, and preventative measures put in place to try to prevent it from infecting computer systems.