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posted by
martyb
on Wednesday May 04 2016, @04:51AM
from the all-meeting-notes-will-be-open-access...-in-binary dept.
from the all-meeting-notes-will-be-open-access...-in-binary dept.
Softpedia reports on the announcement by programmer Lennart Poettering of systemd.conf 2016, a conference around the topic of the systemd software.
According to the announcement, the event "will consist of two days of presentations, a one-day hackfest and one day of hands-on training sessions," happening from 28 September to 1 October at the betahaus coworking space.
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Berlin to Host Second systemd Conference
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You will inherit millions of dollars.
(Score: 2) by Gravis on Wednesday May 04 2016, @06:15AM
is for uninstalling systemd. (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡pɯǝʇsʎs
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 04 2016, @06:26AM
Installing FreeBSD [freebsd.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by b0ru on Wednesday May 04 2016, @07:50AM
Installing FreeBSD [freebsd.org]
QFT. Not to sound like a BSD fanboi (or start a flamewar, for that matter), but with all of this systemd flaming, why haven't the Linux old-hands migrated to another Unix-like? Systemd isn't going anywhere and, if anything, it's only going to get worse. I can absolutely relate to not wanting to dump the system that's always 'just worked' for you, and you know it inside out, but if it's the rc-style configuration you're missing, why not regain some sanity and make the switch? It's very clear that Poettering doesn't care about POSIX, portability, the simplicity of rc-style configuration, or users.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 04 2016, @08:44AM
Also for some of us, reusing userspace between kernels (Although in the *BSDs defence, that applies so erratically on linux as to be almost as useless as on the bsds.)
Mostly though is probably 'Installer, followed by slices, followed by pf instead of iptables, followed by 20 year old patent infringement lawsuits)
(Score: 2) by turgid on Wednesday May 04 2016, @09:50AM
Been using Slackware since 1995. Not about to change soon :-)
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent [wikipedia.org].
(Score: 2) by b0ru on Wednesday May 04 2016, @10:04AM
Indeed. Slack seems to be the last bastion of Sane™ Linux (I still keep a Slack box knocking around at home), but with pulseaudio coming in the next Slack release, systemd may not be far behind. Let's hope not.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 04 2016, @07:07PM
Check out Void (voidlinux.eu). They're using runit for their init system and service management and will not be switching to systemd.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 04 2016, @01:23PM
I've been using Slackware since '95 and inertia is keeping me on Linux. If Slackware goes, I go to one of the BSDs. I've dabbled with BSD in the past so I'm familiar with it. I've been an admin for SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, Irix, SCO (the real one), Redhat, and various MSDOS and windows versions. I don't like the way Systemd is being forced down our throats like the upgrade to Win10. I still keep a Win7 partition around but only boot it on patch friday (patch tuesday + safety margin). Yes, I'm retired, a grey beard and aspiring BOFH.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday May 04 2016, @12:54PM
why haven't the Linux old-hands migrated to another Unix-like?
Because we have? I'm lovin freebsd. ZFS is freaking awesome. Its "real unix" not "I'm gonna make me a gnome bootloader for my vaporware tablet". The community is nicer. Arguably ports and pkgng is bigger than the apt-get ecosystem, if it isn't, it certainly is at least similarly huge.
This is why I disagree with the post above claiming they'll be trolling. There probably will be some because they're such juicy and responsive targets, but most serious folks have moved on to freebsd or are checking out the recent beta of Devuan as their upgrade path until they freebsd..
(Score: 3, Insightful) by b0ru on Wednesday May 04 2016, @01:06PM
Disclaimer: I'm a long time FreeBSD user.
FreeBSD did jump on the Linux bandwagon a bit; HAL, dbus and stuff like that, whilst NetBSD and OpenBSD managed to avoid it. I like FreeBSD. It's consistent, it stays out of my way, let's me get work done and I get everything I need from ports. Simple rc-style configuration, jails, capsicum, PF and ZFS are worth their weight in gold. As you've said, the community and documentation are more or less exemplary by comparison, but some of the directions they've taken over the years are a bit boggling. I hope the project will stay the course, and not be a victim of its own success as more and more Linux refugees migrate.
(Score: 2) by devlux on Wednesday May 04 2016, @01:27PM
Speaking from the "not BSD" camp. BSD is an awesome and capable OS, but is severely lacking in driver support.
This isn't much of a problem if you're a sysadmin just doing a job or running it as a server, or basically doing "Normal stuff".
However I develop software as a big part of my living. This software needs to be able to compile and run and a big part of that, is getting it to run on mobile devices as well.
AFAIK adb and the android dev toolchain does not function under any BSD except for OSX.
Also I use a laptop as my main and almost never have a desktop at hand, I've never seen a BSD variant that had either video drivers or wifi drivers for recently current laptops and by the time that support does make it in, usually 2 or 3 years later, my laptop is EOL and I'm off to the next one. This used to be a big problem in Linux for a long time, but the situation started getting a lot better around 2005. For some reason it's still a big issue in the BSD camp. (note I' haven't actually tried BSD this refresh cycle, so my knowledge is 3+ years out of date, but I haven't heard any major improvements).
(Score: 2) by b0ru on Wednesday May 04 2016, @01:44PM
The driver issue is largely a problem of available help; the Linux kernel has an army of contributors -- both from companies writing drivers to support their hardware on Linux, and engineers like ourselves who contribute to projects in our spare time. The former is a very formidable force; I can't count the number of times I've received a PFO or request to sign an NdA by a company when requesting documentation for a particular piece of hardware (scientific instruments and commercial hardware alike), which has left me with no other choice but to RE their binary blobs myself, or see what they've written for other systems. Naturally, this is a slow, tedious process, but this is just one of the many hurdles of such endeavours, and one which BSD maintainers can no doubt relate to.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by rleigh on Wednesday May 04 2016, @08:57PM
I already mostly did, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I hope that we continue to have Linux distributions which remain systemd-free to retain some measure of diversity, such as Gentoo, Slackware and Devuan, and if it remains viable for the long-term, then I will continue to use Linux. But right now, I've been moving progressively to FreeBSD over the last 2.5 years.
To be honest, I should have looked into it much earlier. But it's easy to stay within your comfort zone and discount the other possibilities. I used Debian for 18 years. That's a long time, and while I'm shocked the time passed so quickly, over that time I invested a huge amount of my life into it. Both as a user and as a developer. In a very real sense, Debian *was* my life, as the primary focus of my efforts for well over a decade and half, and a large part of my social circle. To say I was emotionally attached to its success and progress would be a gross understatement. I was an early tester of systemd while I was doing sysvinit maintenance. I had high hopes for it; improving upon sysvinit was not an unreasonable goal, many other projects have already tried this. I spent many man weeks reimplementing certain bits of systemd policy over to our initscripts and initramfs; some parts are genuinely useful, and I also had hopes of collaboration and a positive mutual relationship. Unfortunately, the relationship was a one-way thing, and it became clear early on that the scope of systemd was unbounded and the our-way-or-the-highway attitude was terrible. It took several years of flamewars and passive-aggressive nonsense to finally sap all my remaining enthusiasm, before I saw no future left in it and was getting no pleasure out of it any more. Bad RSI also didn't help. Good design matters. Backward compatibility matters. Not being raging arseholes to your users and fellow developers matters. The whole situation is a giant, horrible mess, and the fact that we actually got into this situation is incredible and unbelievable.
I, like many others got into Linux in the '90s because we liked freedom. Both in terms of licensing, and in terms of having the practical freedom to do whatever we liked with our systems. Just like young, lean companies lose their focus and become bumbling crusty behemoths like the companies they originally supplanted (Microsoft?), today's Linux has become dominated by a small number of corporate interests to its detriment, and is no longer a cornucopia of great ideas and hordes of enthusiastic hackers pushing the boundaries. It's become what we started using it to escape, and for me that means it's time to move on. Linux used to be *fun*, exciting, interesting and yes, a bit buggy. But it wasn't the bland corporateware it's become. It's not all bad, of course, but it's lost something important, not least of which is the ability of the developer collective to push back against bad design and bad code pushed by a dominant company. It's vendor lock-in and control under a free software licence--dictating policy and using lots of undocumented baroque APIs is outwith the scope of licensing, but its right out of the Microsoft playbook of yore.
(Score: 2) by novak on Thursday May 05 2016, @04:25AM
Because we don't need to. See, old Unix hands that actually know how the system works can and have been setting our systems up the way we want for years. Running a distro without systemd isn't impossible or even difficult. I don't want to switch to a different OS because I run a ton of pretty non-standard software that I really don't want to port.
Linux is so versatile, used on everything from uclinux routers to the world's top supercomputers, that regardless of default choices made in some or all distros you can still build it just the way you want.
novak
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 04 2016, @08:09AM
How well does Steam[1] run on FreeBSD?
(asking because I'm considering FreeBSD in case I get forced to switch distro yet again).
[1] Including the games, of course.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by b0ru on Wednesday May 04 2016, @08:14AM
Valve don't support FreeBSD, but the LBC layer [freebsd.org] in FreeBSD is actually pretty solid, with 64-bit support having just arrived in 10.3-RELEASE [freebsd.org]. That said, I haven't tried running it. I can attest to other proprietary Linux programs I use running flawlessly on top of LBC.
(Score: 2) by VLM on Wednesday May 04 2016, @01:15PM
Devuan beta?
https://devuan.org/ [devuan.org]
Disclaimer, I have not tried this, I'm shutting off my linux boxes and bringing up freebsd boxes faster than I could convert to devuan. My automation system recipes work for debian or freebsd but I don't have automation for conversion from debian to devuan so I've not tried, it would probably take longer than starting a new freebsd instance and sending ansible/puppet after it. I've heard a lot of good stuff about it.