While surveying natural limestone caves in the Galilee, scientists have discovered hundreds of limestone caves in which Jews hid when Roman troops came marching through 2,000 years ago, during the Great Jewish Revolt (66-70 CE).
Extensive embellishment such as baths and candle niches carved into the rock show that the caves had been prepared for extensive habitation.
Water cisterns carved into the rock, as well as pitchers, pottery shards, coins, and other artifacts dating to the 1st century C.E. were found in many of the cliff shelters, say Dr. Yinon Shivtiel from the Safed Academic College and Vladimir Boslove of the Israeli Cave Research Center. The work was funded by the Safed Academic College Research Foundation.
The cave entrances are pretty easy to spy, for a hiding place...
(Score: 4, Insightful) by bob_super on Friday September 30 2016, @12:25AM
> The cave entrances are pretty easy to spy, for a hiding place...
Indeed. And more than one teen has lost their virginity in there over the last few decades I'm sure.
But someone with quite an agenda needs to trumpet out loud any proof the Eternal Jewishness of that land...
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @01:26AM
http://archive.adl.org/education/curriculum_connections/doctrine_of_discovery.html [adl.org]
(Score: 4, Insightful) by jelizondo on Friday September 30 2016, @04:35AM
Indeed.
Even the scholars of the Torah acknowledge that the land was previously inhabited and was therefore to be taken by force. A couple of light reads:
And the Romans threw them out of Jerusalem and surrounding areas at around 70 C.E., so they really need to make sure they prove they were there from the earliest times to the present to justify their claim over land that is not properly theirs.
Note that I'm not anti-Jewish, simply anti-stupid. Except for some lands in Canada given back to the Inuit, we have occupied lands previously owned by the first peoples in America (I mean the whole continent) and we have no plans whatsoever to give their descendants the land back and go back to Europe or wherever our ancestors came from. If the Jews have just claim to their ancestral land, then so do the first peoples in America (the continent) and there is logical contradiction holding one case to be true and the other, exactly the same, to be false.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by DutchUncle on Friday September 30 2016, @02:45PM
It doesn't take any scholarship; just read the Old Testament and it says very clearly that the land was already inhabited. After the exodus from Egypt, heading in the right direction, scouts were afraid of the inhabitants, which is why they went for a 40-year "basic training march" in the wrong direction.
(Score: 2) by jdavidb on Friday September 30 2016, @07:13PM
Dr. Walter Block has some very interesting writings on just reparations [walterblock.com] for property taken generations ago. Basically property should be returned to just owners, but the burden of proof gets more and more difficult as time goes by. Kind of a natural statute of limitations.
Looks like he has also given a lecture [mises.org] on the subject.
His writings were about slaves in America of African origins but I would think it would also apply to the question of the middle east. Block is Jewish but atheist; I don't think he had in mind addressing the question of Jewish ownership of Palestine, but I could be wrong. For what it's worth his mentor Murray Rothbard, also Jewish and atheist, thought that it would be best for Jews to just establish a new homeland in America.
ⓋⒶ☮✝🕊 Secession is the right of all sentient beings
(Score: 1) by jelizondo on Friday September 30 2016, @10:11PM
Thank you for the pointer, I'll look it up
Cheers
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PartTimeZombie on Friday September 30 2016, @12:34AM
The article says that scientists discovered these caves, and implies it was a recent thing, despite there being a town at the foot of the cliff, because the local kids would never have played in those caves, now would they?
Also, the only reasons "Great Jewish Revolt " is even noteworthy is because Josephus' writings have survived.
When the revolt was actually happening, it would have made the evening news back in Rome, but would not have been unusual. Rome put revolts down all over the Empire all the time.
There was nothing great about the Jewish one, they didn't even win.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @01:05AM
Damn! You spoiled the ending, and Amazon offers no refunds.
(Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Friday September 30 2016, @01:15AM
Sorry, I won't tell you what happens with the Lombards then.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by TheGratefulNet on Friday September 30 2016, @02:52AM
he fixes the cable?
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @06:37AM
Good answer, Dude.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by RamiK on Friday September 30 2016, @05:19AM
I won't say anything about historical significance. But I will say Josephus' writings were\are often read in Judeo-Christian context:
1. Full name: Titus Flavius Josephus
2. Pisonian conspiracy: 65 plot to assassinate Nero with Subrius Flavus being one of the ring leaders.
3. Great revolt: 66. Roman general: Titus Flavius.
4. Nero's Suicide: 68.
5. Year of the Four Emperors: 69.
6. Surface end result: Flavian dynasty rises and the Julio-Claudians fall. Rome gains no territory and loses a lot of man and resources.
7. Between the lines: The Flavians married the Jews and had them write their house's history. Some of stuff attributed to Nero is so ridiculously far-fetched it's guaranteed to be propaganda. Regardless, much of the Roman aristocracy were rich Jews circa year 100.
Later, they upgrade to Christianity - a.k.a. Judaism lite - and we ended up with Christianity in Europe.
Significant or not, since everyone used to learn Latin in high-school and read the Josephus and the bible until relatively recently, you really need to know the main bullet-points to understand and appreciate Judeo-Christian literature going back at least to Shakespeare's plays.
Popular example: Star Wars was correctly identified by Mel Brooks as a whitewashed retelling of the rebellion from a distorted time-line and perspective similar to how the Christian bible isn't set in chronological order. Mel thought it's so silly that he ended up writing Space Balls with the Jewish Princess Vespa (Vespasian) being rescued by Lone Star in Space Balls.
Half offended, half amused, Lucas retorted with Darth Maul* in the new series as the conspirator playing the part of a rebel to take down the Jedi and the Republic leading to the rise of the Empire. This, while the history had it all in reverse where the Jewish rebellion took place decades after the rise of the Empire...
*Mel
compiling...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @01:01AM
What's with the aluminum cans and Doritos bags strewn about? Those rebels were slobs!
Then again, it looks like my own surroundings, I have to say. I'm a rebel against tidiness. Arrrr, Romans walk ze plank!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @02:50AM
While in China in 1989, I was taken to recently discovered caves, in which Mao had hid from the Japanese during WWII. When I asked how the caves could then be called "recently discovered", I was told they were "recently discovered BY TOURISTS".
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @03:33AM
The first Christian with a flag gets to claim it.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @03:48AM
Note that many cavers have gone to China in recent years to explore the caves there. There are lots of deep caves there, and expedition caving is the sort of sport that attracts folks who don't mind getting on a plane if it means finding deeper caves. Just like people come from all around the world to climb in Yellowstone/the Alps. So could well be true.
Nb: I have a friend who once tried to get on a plane to China with a rucksack full of metal caving kit. Needless to say the x-ray folks weren't terribly impressed. She was pushing her hand luggage allowance (kit is heavy) so she tied a wire ladder around her waist, not thinking very hard about metal detectors etc...
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 30 2016, @04:19AM
Good job you Jews!
(Score: 3, Funny) by Rivenaleem on Friday September 30 2016, @08:49AM
The article failed to mention the documents they found in the cave. Apparently there were meetings held there and some of it was written down. One meeting entitled "What have the Romans ever done for us?" was documented by a group known as the People's Front of Judea.
(Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Friday September 30 2016, @10:05AM
Sure it wasn't the Judean People's Front, or the Judean Popular People's Front?
(Or was that a different cave?)
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex