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posted by n1 on Friday May 02 2014, @04:48AM   Printer-friendly
from the doj-is-the-dominant-one dept.

Techdirt reports on a national trend of banks canceling the personal accounts of people working in the adult entertainment industry. It seems that the Dept of Justice has started a program called "Operation Choke Point" where they threaten banks with increased regulatory burden for any accounts associated with a list of legal businesses that they feel have a high rate of associated fraud even if the accounts have no suspicion of wrong doing .

Seems like they started the beta test with Wikileaks, moved on to the file lockers, usenet servers and even VPN providers and are now going mainstream. Does this mean that the industry will end up at the forefront of technology development and bring an alternative payment method to the masses?

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DOJ To End Operation ChokePoint; Porn Stars Free To Bank Once More! | Techdirt 53 comments

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

You may recall that in 2014 we wrote about a strange occurrence having to do with Chase Bank refusing to provide its banking services to Teagan Presley, a rather well known adult film actress. When it became clear that Presley wasn't the only performer to whom this was happening, it initially looked as though banks were engaging in a form of slut-shaming of adult film actors. It turned out, however, that it was the federal government doing the slut-shaming, with the emergence of the Department of Justice's Operation Choke Point. This DOJ policy that was developed to combat financial fraud somehow bled over the stencil lines and became a sort of banking morality police, encouraging banks to cut off services to industries like adult film, fireworks retail stores, and sellers engaged in what the DOJ deemed to be "racist materials." It's worth highlighting that all of these industries and actions, whether you like them or not, are legal, yet the DOJ was essentially attempting to extra-judiciously scuttle them through secretive federal policy. That should have terrified everyone, but didn't, and so the program went on.

Until recently. The justice department recently announced that Operation Choke Point will be ended.

The move hands a big victory to Republican lawmakers who charged that the initiative — dubbed "Operation Choke Point" — was hurting legitimate businesses. In a letter to House Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.), Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd referred to the program as "a misguided initiative."

"We share your view that law abiding businesses should not be targeted simply for operating in an industry that a particular administration might disfavor," says the letter, obtained by progressive activist group Allied Progress and later provided to POLITICO by Goodlatte's office. "Enforcement decisions should always be made based on facts and the applicable law. We reiterate that the Department will not discourage the provision of financial services to lawful industries, including businesses engaged in short-term lending and firearms-related activities," it adds. A nearly identical letter was sent to Sens. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) and Mike Crapo (R-Idaho).

I was more annoyed by their use of it against gun stores but good riddance regardless.

Source: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170818/11113638027/doj-to-end-operation-chokepoint-porn-stars-free-to-bank-once-more.shtml

Previously:
Adult Film Stars' Bank Accounts Closed


Original Submission

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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by zim on Friday May 02 2014, @04:55AM

    by zim (1251) on Friday May 02 2014, @04:55AM (#38748)
    ~No, we don't want your money. You filthy porn producers you.~

    That seems hard to believe. In the grand scheme of things most people would rank those in the financial systems as much larger scumbags than those in porn. Aside from the cases where exploitation is involved.

    I wonder how they managed to sell that idea to their shareholders?

    Maybe it's time for a porn union. Turn aginst them and you'll lose all access to porn across the entire planet.
    We'll see who gives up first...
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:03AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:03AM (#38750)

      Guess you missed the part where it's actually the justice department that is doing this, my guess would be that they go to banks and tell them that if it turns out that certain accounts are involved in criminal activity the bank will be held liable. The bank doesn't want the extra risk and drops those accounts faster then you can blink.

      I think this is a very troublesome development, the dept of justice basically side steps the legal system to target people they don't like, today it's porn, tomorrow who knows who they decide to bully.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:55AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:55AM (#38774)
        Now that sounds a lot more realistic.

        After all many banks have blood on their hands because they have been laundering billions of drug money for the drug lords. Without those billions funding drug lord armies and wars, a lot of people would be alive today.

        If "war on drugs" was truly a war on drugs, the bankers wouldn't have got away so lightly. But all it seems is just a way of making certain people richer and more powerful.
        • (Score: 1) by metamonkey on Friday May 02 2014, @02:39PM

          by metamonkey (3174) on Friday May 02 2014, @02:39PM (#38925)

          Don't forget, oppressing minorities and dividing the lower classes from each other and the middle class. Nixon was a terrible racist and he did not like what was going on at the end of the 1960s. War protesters, blacks and whites working together, people talking about tearing down and remaking the system, etc. He purposely started the DEA to crack down on black people, put them in jail, and destroy their families. He was an evil, evil sonofabitch.

          Today, the drug war still exists for these purposes:

          1) Generate "customers" for the private prison industry, particularly blacks and other minorities.

          2) Create hardened criminals out of non-violent drug offenders by making them felons, aka second-class citizens

          3) Use said criminals to terrorize the white middle class, justifying their tax expenses and the War on Drugs.

          4) Funnel that tax money to the militarized police and weapon manufacturers.

          5) Make sure the drug lords have those massive profits to turn Mexico and other South American nations into blood-drenched narco states.

          6) Take advantage of the violence south of the border to install puppet dictators in their governments, friendly to the interests of US corporations.

          7) Drive the honest, hard working but terrorized populace of these nations north into the US illegally, where they can provide cheap labor for US business interests, and can be controlled via threats of deportation if they get all uppity about "wages" and "working conditions."

          8) Use the threat of illegals to further terrorize the white middle class, justifying the taxes and militarized police. You're basically back to step 1.

          --
          Okay 3, 2, 1, let's jam.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:29PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:29PM (#38868)

                First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.

                Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

                Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.

                Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

        Martin Niemöller

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:14AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:14AM (#38754)

      The emperor Vespasian is said to have rebuked his son, Titus, for objecting to a tax on the fullers, who washed garments with the ammonia produced from urine. Titus wanted nothing to do with a profession so base and ignoble, as to stoop to dealing in man's urine, to which Vespasian rejoined, "Pecunia non olet": money doesn't smell.

      Once greed is involved, there is no morality. As someone else pointed, this isn't the banks' morality drive, but a government initiative.

      • (Score: 2) by zim on Friday May 02 2014, @05:25AM

        by zim (1251) on Friday May 02 2014, @05:25AM (#38758)
        And porn union to the rescue!
        No government employee is allowed to access porn. :)

        This will be reversed in two weeks.

        I don't recall where it was. But one of the large porn sites listed all the locations of their visitors over a period of time. Government workers were well into the top 10.

        Of course they could just hit up the NSA for copies of all the porn...
        • (Score: 2) by tathra on Saturday May 03 2014, @12:17AM

          by tathra (3367) on Saturday May 03 2014, @12:17AM (#39126)

          No government employee is allowed to access porn. :)

          who needs porn? they already use government funds for hookers. no joke.

    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:52AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:52AM (#38772)

      These guys will just move to a strictly cash only business. Woopsie no taxes collected.

      The DOJ of the last 3 admins has shown that it is nothing more than a tool to hound people they do not like (Clinton and Bush both used it too). The Obama admin is showing what it is really made of. A bunch of political hacks. Who talk all nice and pretty about protecting minorities but do the opposite. Being racist is bad, but being really bigoted is OK if it is not your guys. There is a reason Putin is spanking them on the global stage. Its because they are too busy about how to spin it so they dont look bad.

      The porn industry is not an insignificant amount of money. But if they want to screw up their campaign contributions, all the more power to them.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @08:17AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @08:17AM (#38800)

        These guys will just move to a strictly cash only business.

        Or they may switch to Bitcoin. I'm not sure whether that would be good or bad for Bitcoin.

        • (Score: 1) by boltronics on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:13AM

          by boltronics (580) on Sunday May 04 2014, @07:13AM (#39404) Homepage Journal

          I was just thinking the same thing. Well, the more people using it, the easier it will be to find people accepting it for purchases, the easier it is for other people to get into.. I'd say that's a win.

          --
          It's GNU/Linux dammit!
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by krishnoid on Friday May 02 2014, @07:18AM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Friday May 02 2014, @07:18AM (#38781)

      In the grand scheme of things most people would rank those in the financial systems as much larger scumbags than those in porn. Aside from the cases where exploitation is involved.

      Well duh, the first priority of those types is to look out for each other [rollingstone.com].

      • (Score: 1) by halcyon1234 on Friday May 02 2014, @01:16PM

        by halcyon1234 (1082) on Friday May 02 2014, @01:16PM (#38893)

        In the grand scheme of things most people would rank those in the financial systems as much larger scumbags than those in porn.

        mumblemumble some joke about yeah they only fuck each other not their customers mumble mumble moving on.

        --
        Original Submission [thedailywtf.com]
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Friday May 02 2014, @06:25PM

        by edIII (791) on Friday May 02 2014, @06:25PM (#39015)

        Yeah, I saw that bullshit.

        The only thing that can keep you safe in America now is be a good little drug addict to the *right* drugs, and enjoy your TWO 29-hour-or-less part time jobs that provide no medical and not even a living wage.

        One way or the other, you are property and a dividend returning asset for some rich person who lives in a world with different rules.

        The only really good thing about this, is that it is clear they have no willpower and are going to push too far. Then it will be civil war and I just love to remind people what the French did to their elites.

        It won't take too much more bullshit. First Wall Street gets completely bailed out with the same exact logic. They are too big too fail and we have to protect them to protect what we have left, even though they are directly responsible for taking away what we had in the first place. Excellent logic. Then you have the FDA becoming a weak willed pussy deciding they can't possibly destroy an entire pharmaceutical company even though they are guilty of killing and severely harming people for profit. Same logic.

        You formalize that double standard a few more times where it isn't just some thing bitched about and written into movies, and you will end up with a real war. Not some fake war on paper.

        I am genuinely pissed off right now and thoroughly disgusted by just how far American has fallen from grace with these people running the show. DOJ didn't just remove all moral authority from this point forward (they have ZERO), they have removed whatever moral authority we had left with the rest of the world.

        We are a joke, and a pathetic wretched shadow of what we once were.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by unitron on Friday May 02 2014, @07:53AM

      by unitron (70) on Friday May 02 2014, @07:53AM (#38791) Journal

      "Maybe it's time for a porn CREDIT union."

       

      There, fixed that for you.

       

      : - )

      --
      something something Slashcott something something Beta something something
      • (Score: 2) by unitron on Saturday May 03 2014, @02:07PM

        by unitron (70) on Saturday May 03 2014, @02:07PM (#39238) Journal

        I just thought of something not necessarily related--

         

        There are sperm banks and blood banks, so why no sperm and blood credit unions?

        --
        something something Slashcott something something Beta something something
    • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Friday May 02 2014, @10:43AM

      by isostatic (365) on Friday May 02 2014, @10:43AM (#38834) Journal

      That seems hard to believe. In the grand scheme of things most people would rank those in the financial systems as much larger scumbags than those in porn. Aside from the cases where exploitation is involved.

      The financial system always involves exploitation.

      Err, sorry, I mean Rah rah capitalism FTW!!

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Boronx on Friday May 02 2014, @05:05AM

    by Boronx (262) on Friday May 02 2014, @05:05AM (#38752)

    There seems to be a conspiracy to do everything possible to make banks a bad gamble.

    Did you know that *banks* used to pay *depositors* for the privilege of keeping their money?

    • (Score: 2) by zim on Friday May 02 2014, @05:21AM

      by zim (1251) on Friday May 02 2014, @05:21AM (#38756)
      That sounds completely crazy when dealing with most banks anymore.

      Thankfully (some? most?) credit unions still do. For now.
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by wantkitteh on Friday May 02 2014, @08:17AM

      by wantkitteh (3362) on Friday May 02 2014, @08:17AM (#38799) Homepage Journal

      I had an argument with my bank a few weeks ago, they froze my account because I hit some arbitrary limit on online payments (5 per day) which they claimed they couldn't alter for anyone at all and I'd just have to live with it. I reminded them that I employ them to make access to my funds convenient which they were deliberately failing to do and I'd be changing banks soon, kthxbai. The guy I was speaking to had obviously trained to deal with customers, not employers, and was completely taken aback by this line of argument. Oddly enough, some high-up manager guy phoned me back a few minutes later, apologised and lifted the freeze.

      I'm still planning on changing banks.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Dunbal on Friday May 02 2014, @10:08AM

        by Dunbal (3515) on Friday May 02 2014, @10:08AM (#38828)

        "I'm still planning on changing banks."

              You will find that even this isn't as easy as it used to be. You have to almost beg to open a bank account anywhere nowadays, thanks to all the "anti money laundering" regulations you pretty much have to prove you're not a drug dealer before they'll give you one. Used to be anyone with some ID and $100 could open an account anywhere within an hour.

        • (Score: 2) by wantkitteh on Friday May 02 2014, @11:49AM

          by wantkitteh (3362) on Friday May 02 2014, @11:49AM (#38858) Homepage Journal

          It's *much* easier in the UK where I live. The government has recently forced the banks into starting a scheme specifically to ease the transition between banks by redirecting all direct debits on your account for you. That way you don't have to go around all the service providers you currently have direct debits with and move them manually.

        • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday May 02 2014, @01:53PM

          by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 02 2014, @01:53PM (#38909)

          I was bankless for six years by using rechargeable pre-paid cards. Worked well. My latest job couldn't cut a check and couldn't direct deposit to any of my cards : ( Had to sign up for a bank account. Walked down to the nearest bank and had an account in 15 minutes : ) Bank services have improved a lot since i last had them. However it is still disturbing that they don't all offer two-factor authentication.

          --
          SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
          • (Score: 1) by adolf on Saturday May 03 2014, @06:49AM

            by adolf (1961) on Saturday May 03 2014, @06:49AM (#39166)

            Last time I got a new bank account (3 or so years ago), it was easy: 15 minutes for "free" checking, a book of starter checks, a starter ATM card, and a real card in the mail.

            I don't have a bank account anymore.

            For a long time (years) I fired all banks for various reasons that are important to me. I got a pre-paid card from Wal-Mart, had my money direct-deposited to it, and cashed/deposited checks at Wal-Mart (which, while costing $3 for every time they manually install money into the account and/or turn a check into greenbacks, is easily made up for with 24-hour service). I was reasonably pleased with this.

            For the past few months, I've been using Simple instead. I'm not entirely happy with it, but I'm much happier with it than I was with prior banks with bricks-and-mortar, or Wal-Mart.

            It's kind of just another pre-paid card, but it's got a nice web interface that actually isn't a pain in the ass, and a mobile app that is genuinely useful. It notifies me whenever any activity happens with my money, usually within a few seconds, using Android's push notification. I deposit checks (free) by signing them and writing my account number on the back, taking a picture of both sides, and waiting for the funds to clear (which, so far, has always been a next-business-day sort of thing).

            They'll gladly mail a check to whoever I want (including mere people), and/or do the electronic transfer thing for bill payments and the like. Transfers to other Simple people are free and instant.

            It even has some neat budgeting ability, wherein it doesn't tell me how much money is necessarily in my account...but how much is safe to spend, based on how much money is actually there (including holds) and my own "goals" (could be bills, could be a vacation fund that is a ways off) that I set.

            Getting cash? Easy and free at most grocery stores: Just buy something (everyone needs food), and push the appropriate button at the checkout. Otherwise Simple themselves never charge ATM fees, but they also have a network that is free and I've never had a problem finding a free one nearby. There are no overdraft fees or any other fees that I can think of (which makes sense, since hypothetically big overdrafts are largely impossible).

            Depositing cash is a bit of a pain. One could wire money from a real bank account (free, and allegedly fast and easy (I've never tried)), or (as silly as it sounds) buy a money order from any corner bodega and take a picture of it.

            That's all stuff that one can get in various combinations from various other bank-ish entities. So here's the kicker: Ever misplace your debit card (prepaid or otherwise) and panic? Ever call the bank to report it (just to be safe), only to have them instantly put the whole thing on irrevocable lock-down and mail you a new card with new numbers...soon-ish? And then find the old card, even though it's now useless? I have. It sucked.

            If I've lost track of my Simple card (and I haven't, but I probably will at some point), I (me!) can click a button in the mobile app and simply turn the card off. And if I find the card, I can instantly turn it back on.

            Now the downsides, which are important. They've got the air of a hot startup, which is awesome because it keeps them on-track with perfecting their product...and not-awesome because it's in beta, and sometimes it shows: Last weekend, I failed at buying a buffet dinner for my daughter and I, because Simple was broken. The til was variously reporting "AUTH DOWN" or "CARD NOT ENCRYPTED". Drove down the road to an ATM, and it said "UNABLE TO PROCESS THIS TYPE OF TRANSACTION" and spit my card out at me.

            It was broken for a couple of hours, and some noteworthy number of folks weren't able to use their cashless money. This is the only time I've experienced this problem....with Simple. (I have experienced it with proper banks, but that was a long time ago.)

            To their benefit, they do keep an active status blog and when problems happen they post updates (good or bad) every 30 minutes and seem to be more interested in being open about issues instead of glossing them over.

            But I'm just glad that I failed at pre-paying for a buffet, instead of post-paying for a steak dinner (I don't know what happens when one is unable to pay for food they've already eaten, and I don't want to find out).

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:23AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @05:23AM (#38757)

    Someone somewhere wants to stop you.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:09AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:09AM (#38767)

      Stop posting, you asshole! Yer in trouble now!

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:05AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:05AM (#38766)

    So "guilt by association"... can you remind me exactly which paragraph of which law that was again?

    • (Score: 1) by Horse With Stripes on Friday May 02 2014, @09:28AM

      by Horse With Stripes (577) on Friday May 02 2014, @09:28AM (#38819)

      All of them.

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday May 03 2014, @12:26AM

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 03 2014, @12:26AM (#39128) Journal

      So "guilt by association"...

      Nah, mate.... It's just that fucking finances terrorism, didn't you know?

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
  • (Score: 1) by Atreidin on Friday May 02 2014, @06:18AM

    by Atreidin (3582) on Friday May 02 2014, @06:18AM (#38768)

    I think porn will survive because there are far too many "choke points“ that need to be taken care of.

  • (Score: 2) by kaszz on Friday May 02 2014, @06:50AM

    by kaszz (4211) on Friday May 02 2014, @06:50AM (#38771) Journal

    With this incentive a lot of business and people will accumulate to constitute a new customer base. Once this happen the base business can be used as leverage against the business of the incumbents. Of course it will have its legal base outside the US and people will be discouraged from using such credit exchange. Instead money will be sent by other means in bigger chunks.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @10:57AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @10:57AM (#38839)
    http://torrentfreak.com/90-days-of-killing-cyberlo ckers-50-dead-more-than-500-injured-121006/ [torrentfreak.com] Link in the summary says they started it. Used the same tactic to shutdown cyberlockers and they got caught up in the "expansion"
  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:38PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:38PM (#38875)

    Porn versus US DOJ? US DOJ will always win, they have more guns and are willing to use them. Whatever side is more willing to be outrageously violent will win, and the US has proven it is incredibly violent. Saying stop access to porn for govt employees, start a porn credit union, start a porn union, etc., will never work, because they're not willing to match the violence the US DOJ will perpetrate upon them.

    This is just another in a long series of moves to remove people's freedom in the US. I think the only possible short term solution is a work stoppage across the US, which Americans will never do. The only long term solution is ALWAYS the same long-term solution: education. I think Americans might actually do this after their society continues to erode, although it will probably take 10-20 more generations before Americans wake-up and realize how low they've become and start to try and do something constructive about it.

    • (Score: 2) by snick on Friday May 02 2014, @01:37PM

      by snick (1408) on Friday May 02 2014, @01:37PM (#38901)

      Porn versus US DOJ? US DOJ will always win

      The kind of control you're attempting simply is... it's not possible. If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that porn will not be contained. Porn breaks free, it expands to new territories and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh... well, there it is.
      Porn, uh... finds a way.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:34PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:34PM (#39021)

        Porn versus US DOJ? US DOJ will always win

        The kind of control you're attempting simply is... it's not possible.

        Very possible. If something has to "painfully, maybe even dangerously," break free jsut to freely express itself, then the opposing entity has already won.

    • (Score: 2) by tibman on Friday May 02 2014, @01:59PM

      by tibman (134) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 02 2014, @01:59PM (#38914)

      it will probably take 10-20 more generations before Americans wake-up and realize
      The United States didn't even exist 10 generations ago.

      --
      SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @06:32PM (#39020)

        Correct. Your point? now+(10 to 20) more generations has no bearing on how many generations existed prior to "now". Maybe the wording was confusing.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:50PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02 2014, @12:50PM (#38881)

    When they closed the personal account [twitter.com] of Teagan Presley, she said the account had never been used for anything "adult"-related. It was used to pay her house bill and stuff like that.
    They also closed Layton Bentons account and she tweeted a copy of the letter [twitter.com].
    According to Stormy Daniels [twitter.com] it's nothing new, but has been going on for years.
    Meanwhile Stoya posted a question [twitter.com] for the government.

    Some of the links above might be NSFW, but at least EFF also has some comments [eff.org] about it. That link should still be SFW.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Lazarus on Friday May 02 2014, @04:23PM

    by Lazarus (2769) on Friday May 02 2014, @04:23PM (#38952)

    I understand and expect it when the Republicans go after porn, because they're insane from a backwards version of Christianity popular in the less sophisticated parts of the country. Why would a democratic administration do this? They're not in the thrall of nutjob preachers for the most part.

    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by bziman on Friday May 02 2014, @05:06PM

      by bziman (3577) on Friday May 02 2014, @05:06PM (#38970)

      I understand and expect it when the Republicans go after porn, because they're insane from a backwards version of Christianity popular in the less sophisticated parts of the country. Why would a democratic administration do this? They're not in the thrall of nutjob preachers for the most part.

      I hate to break it to you, but most of the major Democrats are Christian fundamentalists, too. See Obama religious quotes [huffingtonpost.com]. Feel free to do a search for "atheists in congress" - you won't find any. Hell, Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate majority leader is Mormon, the same as Mitt Romney!

      On average, I'd guess that Democrats are just as religious as Republican. In order to make it seem like you have a choice, the Republicans pander to the crazy religious groups, while the Democrats pander to the more moderate religious groups, but really both groups have a single purpose - extract money from the public and give it to large business interests. Religious is just one means of control.