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posted by n1 on Thursday November 26 2015, @08:49AM   Printer-friendly
from the everyone-knows-jesus-lived-in-america dept.

Glastonbury Abbey in England is known for a rich and colorful history from its origins as being built by Joseph of Arimathea and the boy Jesus, to being the resting place for King Arthur and Guinevere. However, a four year study shows that those feet in ancient time did not walk upon England's mountains green, and that the Arthurian legend stories were made up by the 12th century monks to raise money to rebuild their beleaguered monestary.


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Jaruzel on Thursday November 26 2015, @09:09AM

    by Jaruzel (812) on Thursday November 26 2015, @09:09AM (#268274) Homepage Journal

    As a native brit, and having had Ancient English focused history education as part of my primary schooling (5-11), I and I'm sure 90% of other brits, have never been in any doubt that the Arthurian Legend is nothing more than... a legend. Never at any point has it ever been taught that it was historical fact. Some of the 'legend' has roots in historical fact, but not much.

    However, the UK benefits massively from the tourism that these stories bring in. So I'm not sure shouting about how it's all bunkum is a good thing tbh. Next they'll be telling us Hogwarts doesn't exist, and that there's no Platform 9¾ at Kings Cross...

    -Jar

    --
    This is my opinion, there are many others, but this one is mine.
    • (Score: 3, Touché) by takyon on Thursday November 26 2015, @09:25AM

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Thursday November 26 2015, @09:25AM (#268276) Journal
      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Jaruzel on Thursday November 26 2015, @10:29AM

        by Jaruzel (812) on Thursday November 26 2015, @10:29AM (#268282) Homepage Journal

        They moved it around it a lot during the rebuild of Kings Cross/St. Pancreas, it now looks like this:

        http://www.kxldn.co.uk/platform_9_3-4.html [kxldn.co.uk]

        Which is annoying I think, as it's nothing like the REAL entrance [nocookie.net].

        -Jar

        --
        This is my opinion, there are many others, but this one is mine.
        • (Score: 2) by TheRaven on Thursday November 26 2015, @11:36AM

          by TheRaven (270) on Thursday November 26 2015, @11:36AM (#268286) Journal
          The real entrance is through the barriers, so tourists can't get to it unless they have a train ticket. Also, with the rebuild, platforms 9 and 10 are on opposite sides of the track, so a platform between them would be difficult to safely access.
          --
          sudo mod me up
    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by zocalo on Thursday November 26 2015, @11:42AM

      by zocalo (302) on Thursday November 26 2015, @11:42AM (#268287)
      I've long been fascinated by the myth (which is indeed how it is usually presented in the UK), and I'd be very surprised if parts of the it were not grounded in fact, but agree with the assessment that it's probably almost entirely fiction. There's certainly enough about the various interpretations of the myth that could plausibly relate to actual events and personages in the several kingdoms that arose across the UK in the wake of the decline of the Roman empire and the desire to unite them into one "Albion" that could stand against the various potential hostiles from mainland Europe though, so it's easy to wonder how much might be true, and hence the enduring appeal.

      Most likely it's a bit of propaganda created by stringing together bits and pieces of oral history and creating a single "Arthur" out of several distict historical characters and events (something that has almost certainly been done for several other similar characters across Europe), and then padding it out with outright fabrication - raising funds for refurbishing a monastery is as good a reason as any for doing that. The timing would work too; 12thC England was essentially ruled by the French (many "English" Kings of the time couldn't speak Old English and French was the language of the Royal Court) and beset by succession issues, so the idea of a returned Arthur as a kind of local hero could have been very appealing to the peasants of the time.
      --
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      • (Score: 3, Informative) by bootsy on Thursday November 26 2015, @02:20PM

        by bootsy (3440) on Thursday November 26 2015, @02:20PM (#268315)

        It certainly appealed 300 years later when Henry Tudor named his son Arthur.
        The whole King Arthur thing is complicated but he certainly turns up in Welsh bardic stories and Henry was playing on the Welsh side of his heritage in order to drum up support. Why not name your son after a historical Celtic leader.
        Arthur died before becoming king and it passed to his brother who became the well known Henry VIII.

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday November 26 2015, @03:29PM

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday November 26 2015, @03:29PM (#268330) Journal

        Most likely it's a bit of propaganda

        It's a story. Everyone has stories and nobody really cares all that much how true they are. Now excuse me, but I need to get back to this documentary about dudes riding flying reptiles and protecting the world from space fungus that eats everything.

    • (Score: 2) by n1 on Thursday November 26 2015, @05:57PM

      by n1 (993) on Thursday November 26 2015, @05:57PM (#268358) Journal

      I was not aware of the 'Arthurian Legend' but that perhaps says more about my engagement in formal education than the topic being omitted.

      Saying that, I don't think anything to do with the life and origins of Jesus is taught as historical fact in UK classrooms.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 27 2015, @05:02PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 27 2015, @05:02PM (#268715)

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Arthur [wikipedia.org]

        King Arthur is a legendary British leader who, according to medieval histories and romances, led the defence of Britain against Saxon invaders in the late 5th and early 6th centuries AD. The details of Arthur's story are mainly composed of folklore and literary invention, and his historical existence is debated and disputed by modern historians.[2] The sparse historical background of Arthur is gleaned from various sources, including the Annales Cambriae, the Historia Brittonum, and the writings of Gildas. Arthur's name also occurs in early poetic sources such as Y Gododdin.[3]

        Arthur is a central figure in the legends making up the so-called Matter of Britain. The legendary Arthur developed as a figure of international interest largely through the popularity of Geoffrey of Monmouth's fanciful and imaginative 12th-century Historia Regum Britanniae (History of the Kings of Britain).[4] In some Welsh and Breton tales and poems that date from before this work, Arthur appears either as a great warrior defending Britain from human and supernatural enemies or as a magical figure of folklore, sometimes associated with the Welsh Otherworld, Annwn.[5] How much of Geoffrey's Historia (completed in 1138) was adapted from such earlier sources, rather than invented by Geoffrey himself, is unknown.

        Although the themes, events and characters of the Arthurian legend varied widely from text to text, and there is no one canonical version, Geoffrey's version of events often served as the starting point for later stories. Geoffrey depicted Arthur as a king of Britain who defeated the Saxons and established an empire over Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Norway and Gaul. Many elements and incidents that are now an integral part of the Arthurian story appear in Geoffrey's Historia, including Arthur's father Uther Pendragon, the wizard Merlin, Arthur's wife Guinevere, the sword Excalibur, Arthur's conception at Tintagel, his final battle against Mordred at Camlann, and final rest in Avalon. The 12th-century French writer Chrétien de Troyes, who added Lancelot and the Holy Grail to the story, began the genre of Arthurian romance that became a significant strand of medieval literature. In these French stories, the narrative focus often shifts from King Arthur himself to other characters, such as various Knights of the Round Table. Arthurian literature thrived during the Middle Ages but waned in the centuries that followed until it experienced a major resurgence in the 19th century. In the 21st century, the legend lives on, not only in literature but also in adaptations for theatre, film, television, comics and other media.

    • (Score: 2) by deadstick on Thursday November 26 2015, @06:04PM

      by deadstick (5110) on Thursday November 26 2015, @06:04PM (#268364)

      and that there's no Platform 9¾ at Kings Cross...

      Of course there is. That's the one Boudicca's buried under...;-)

  • (Score: 2) by opinionated_science on Thursday November 26 2015, @03:26PM

    by opinionated_science (4031) on Thursday November 26 2015, @03:26PM (#268328)

    This is interesting, because although it is widely (!) believed to be a legend, many of the memes have persisted in our culture. A bit like the bible, another legend story with grander themes.

    The thing is , I don't trust something printed 1 hour ago that I cannot independently verify....

    So perhaps it is a testament to the power of the artistic industry for keeping "not quite real" stories alive for reflection, and not instruction!!

    • (Score: 2) by deadstick on Thursday November 26 2015, @06:08PM

      by deadstick (5110) on Thursday November 26 2015, @06:08PM (#268365)

      There was a 1972 movie, The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean, that began with the caveat "This may not be exactly the way things happened...but it should have been."

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @04:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @04:12PM (#268337)

    Apparently, the tourist traps were much better made back in those days, compared to what we see now.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @05:01PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @05:01PM (#268350)

    have similar motivations behind them?

  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @08:31PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 26 2015, @08:31PM (#268409)

    we need java multicore to debunk the 8th century tourist trap. java multicore can debunk things, because it uses multiple cores. it's available on arm, too!