from the i-love-industrial-espionage-in-the-morning dept.
Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd
"This is a serious threat to our national security. I mean, our economy depends on the ability to innovate. And if there's a dedicated nation state who's using its intelligence apparatus to steal day in and day out what we're trying to develop, that poses a serious threat to our country," [John Carlin, assistant attorney general for US National Security] told 60 Minutes.
One company cited in the report to suffer from the hands of Chinese espionage is American Superconductor, a software developer for wind turbines. The company once was turning over almost half a billion a year but almost went out of business after entering a contract with a government-owned Chinese wind turbine manufacturer, Sinovel.
Owner of American Superconductor, Daniel McGahn, discovered a version of its latest, unreleased software being used on a turbine in China. Despite doing everything possible to keep its source code off the internet it was discovered that the Chinese company turned one of McGahn's employees by offering him money, women and an apartment in return for the full operating code.
To make matters worse, when McGahn decided to sue Sinovel for $1.2bn (£840m) and hire a computer security firm to investigate the case, his firm claims the Chinese company hacked the company's system to see what course of legal action it was taking in order to get a leg-up in proceedings.
"Whenever there's a big lawsuit we'll see the Chinese government actually break into that company, break into the legal department and figure out what's going on behind the scenes so they can better deal with that lawsuit," said George Kurtz, co-founder of computer security company CrowdStrike.
Related Stories
Judge Orders Chinese Wind-Turbine Maker To Pay $59 Million For Stealing Trade Secrets
A federal judge has ordered China's largest wind-turbine firm, Sinovel, to pay $59 million for stealing trade secrets from a Massachusetts-based technology company.
Last January, Sinovel was found guilty of stealing trade secrets in federal criminal court in Madison, Wis. The company paid an Austria-based employee of American Superconductor Corp. to steal its source code for software that powered wind turbines.
[...] Sinovel was the largest customer of American Superconductor Corp. And then the Chinese company suddenly began rejecting shipments of American Superconductor's electronic components in 2011. The Massachusetts tech company learned that Sinovel was using a pirated version of the software it made in the wind turbines it installed. The ordeal left American Superconductor in perilous financial shape, and Wall Street analysts wrote it off as dead. The U.S. Department of Justice said that the company lost more than $1 billion in shareholder equity and 700 jobs.
Previously: China's 'Great Brain Robbery' Hacking of US Companies a National Security Emergency
(Score: 5, Insightful) by maxwell demon on Monday January 25 2016, @07:52AM
Oh, really? [reuters.com]
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @08:17AM
it's only unamerican if other countries do it
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @08:19AM
Yes, I believe that Mr. Pot has met Ms. Kettle. In fact, I believe they are very familiar with each other. You might say they are identical twins from different mothers, or something like that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @08:24AM
善恶到头终有报，只等来早与来迟 or as we say in America: what goes around, comes around.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @02:05PM
Translation:
Me Chinese
Me play trick
Me steal IP from you round eyed prick
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 25 2016, @05:40PM
善恶到头终有报，只等来早与来迟
I can't read most of this (bloody simplified character set...) but it looks something like "Good and evil, it is said, come to an end eventually, as early becomes late," something like that? I am not sure this is identical to "what goes around comes around" exactly.
Google translate seems to think 善有善报恶有恶报 is a closer equivalent. This looks to me like "Good hath good, and evil hath evil, 'tis said."
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by naubol on Tuesday January 26 2016, @03:10AM
I would translate it as, "Good and evil in the end have revenge, only have to wait for it to come early or to come late."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @08:22AM
That "source" does not refute any of the claims you have quoted.
Oh really.
Bashing the US is all the rage and you will get many blind followers, but applying critical thinking skills will show the situation for what it is.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @08:25AM
Actually, that "source" points out that the US and China are playing precisely the same game. That's why they understand each other so well. Get over it, man, government is dirty.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @10:09AM
Amazing what little it takes for you to accept something as evidence. No proof. No direct causal chain. Not even a direct phrase from someone knowledgeable but a minor celebrity insinuating something and not even being directly quoted is enough for 80% of the people reading this. I thought we were supposed to be better than Buzzfeed.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @10:47AM
So, what is your point? Are you disputing the fact that the US government spies on - who, exactly? Anyone? If you use any digital means of communication, you're spied on. If you use the mail, you're spied on. If you work you're spied on. If you pay taxes, you're spied on. If you don't pay taxes, you're spied on. If you use a credit/debit card, you're spied on. If you live in a rain forest, with no obvious communication with civilization, you're spied on.
http://www.boredpanda.com/vanishing-tribes-before-they-pass-away-jimmy-nelson/ [boredpanda.com]
If you have a point to make, please do so.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @05:30PM
The US government spies for US government interests. The Chinese government spies for Chinese corporate interests. These facts have been demonstrated time and again, as you have pointed out, but are incommensurate. One is usual state-actor spy craft, and the other is economic warfare.
My point is use logic, reasoning, and facts, not emotion and equivocation. We aren't liberal arts majors and we should not act like them.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @05:56PM
Yes, please take your own advice, and use logic. Our "representatives" in Washington are routinely bought and sold by CORPORATE interests. Our government has abdicated it's right to make treaties, handing that right off to CORPORATE interests. Government and corporate interests overlap so much, that it's impossible to say which interests are governmetn and which are corporate.
Are you aware of the vast military industrial complex that ultimately runs this nation? It's nigh impossilbe to separate the military from industry, or rather CORPORATE interests.
Logic says, if someone can make money by spying, government will be involved. Money, money, money - follow the money.
TFA itself insinuates that corporate interests and government interests are one and the same. If that were not so, why would the US government care about XYZ corporation being hacked by the Chinese government? They only care, because government sees XYZ as a member of the ruling clique. XYZ contributes huge amounts of money to one or more congress-critter's campaign funds, and that makes XYZ a VIP.
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday January 25 2016, @08:42AM
1. Why the quotes? Reuters [wikipedia.org] is one of the more reputable news sources.
2. It doesn't refute, true enough. But it points out the hypocrisy behind that complaint.
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @10:13AM
1. A source that does not contain what is claimed to is not a source.
2. Is it hypocrisy to defend your assets using the same tools as people who are trying to take them? Is it hypocrisy to take from Siemens, thus facilitating stuxnet preventing an unstable state that supports terrorism from reaching their nuclear goals while claiming corporate espionage is bad?
(Score: 2) by q.kontinuum on Monday January 25 2016, @10:46AM
Snowden says NSA engages in industrial espionage: TV [reuters.com]
Registered IRC nick on chat.soylentnews.org: qkontinuum
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @05:35PM
Fantastic. Rational, reasonable debate utilizing well-known facts is being modded troll. How has soylent become no better than yahoo news?
(Score: 5, Insightful) by julian on Monday January 25 2016, @08:51AM
This is the real damage the NSA has done over the last 30 years. Instead of working to secure our nation's IT infrastructure, they instead are working on the offensive to undermine and spy on other countries. Since the world all uses the same software (Windows, Linux, Cisco routers) they have an incentive to 1) not disclose any security vulnerabilities they discover and 2) work to actively introduce new vulnerabilities and exploits. Again, since we use the same software they use, these exploits end up in US products and services, making the US citizenry less secure.
Thankfully people are finally starting to wake up. Open Source software, open hardware, and strong crypto are ascendant--you can learn a lot by watching which countries are fighting these trends the hardest. And it pains me to say this as an American, but the world doesn't trust our IT products and software like it once did, and this is probably a good thing. We brought it on ourselves. Countries shouldn't trust software or hardware that's designed in the USA or made in PRC. There's scant few alternatives at the moment, and not nearly enough urgency to change that fact. Stop trusting Intel and Microsoft not to fuck you. There's a reason China is building their own CPUs, trying to switch to Linux, and are making their own routers. Ever country that cares about its security and its dignity should do the same. Being a western "ally" of the USA doesn't mean your safe either, ask Angela Merkel.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @10:37AM
This, a thousand times this. You reap what you sow. Of course China will spy. As does North Korea, India, United Kingdom, France, US itself and every other county...
The international community offers heartfelt thanks to NSA for helping end the US hegemony.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday January 25 2016, @11:57AM
https://theintercept.com/2016/01/21/nsa-chief-stakes-out-pro-encryption-position-in-contrast-to-fbi/ [theintercept.com]
Here's a few words from the NSA directors.
The NSA has a lot of opportunities to bypass encryption due to its capabilities and zero days. They also employ lots of mathematicians and will find weaknesses in encryption schemes regardless of what they believe about the use of encryption. Here's a calculation for them: they may believe that letting end-to-end encryption be used will prevent some cyber attacks. Meanwhile they will continue to exploit zero days and copy traffic for eventual quantum decryption.
How "economic" is the NSA's espionage? Spying on Siemens is an obvious way to bolster certain missions, like the Stuxnet attack on Iran's nuclear facilities.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-real-story-of-stuxnet [ieee.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @09:53PM
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
Porter: "Your winnings, sir..."
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @08:34AM
The US have been repackaging Chinese tech as American innovation for decades. Now we are sufficiently globalised that it's obvious that China has everything first, America wants to say, "oh its because they're stealing it from us...." Bullshit.
(Score: 2) by mendax on Monday January 25 2016, @08:36AM
China must be destroyed! Oh wait! Their economy is tanking. Perhaps the upcoming revolution against the Chinese Communist Party will solve this problem. Or maybe not, but when it happens it's going to be fun to watch.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by isostatic on Monday January 25 2016, @08:47AM
Not if you live in south east Asia or Taiwan. When Argentina tanked they invaded the Falklands. What do you think China will do when they need a distraction.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by PinkyGigglebrain on Monday January 25 2016, @09:10AM
Argentina was not a major player in the world economy when it invaded the Falklands, and it still still isn't
You are however on the mark about how China will be wanting something that will distract their population from issues with the local economy, and war with another country is always the easiest way to explain why things are crap at home. "Shortages of food? Don't you know there is a war on?"
Unless the OP has a fully self sufficient secret base somewhere, complete with manufacturing, mines and a nuke power plant, they are not going to be immune to what will happen if China goes down the tubes. No one will be. China's economy has a major influence on the rest of the world. Just look at what happened recently when China's stock market dipped, it took the other markets down with it.
We may not like it but the economies of the world's major countries are already linked such that if one goes down its going to drag the others down too.
"Beware those who would deny you Knowledge, For in their hearts they dream themselves your Master."
(Score: 2) by isostatic on Monday January 25 2016, @09:45AM
Argentina wasn't a major power, didn't stop 907 people being killed as a "distraction".
China has to pick its target carefully though, nothing too easy (it will be over and they won't be able to use it as a distraction), nothing too hard (something that would strongly risk affecting those in power - assassination and/or uprising).
China has been making plenty of noises in the south china sea, enough that I'd be concerned to be nearby. I don't think China would do anything other than bait america, however I could see America taking the bait (also as a distraction from a tanking economy and people being weary on the "war on terror"), and things escalating to a mess, but I don't see it escalating globally beyond the economic knockons.
North Korea may launch (with Chinese backing) one or two nukes at America during this time, but that's really a worst case scenario. I suspect something more akin to North Korea testing a nuke on Midway or Baker Island or an uninhabited Aleutian island.
(Score: 2) by Joe Desertrat on Tuesday January 26 2016, @03:02AM
You are however on the mark about how China will be wanting something that will distract their population from issues with the local economy, and war with another country is always the easiest way to explain why things are crap at home. "Shortages of food? Don't you know there is a war on?"
I've mentioned this before but it bears mentioning again. China also has about 30 million more males than females, that's 30 million frustrated males that probably have no chance of finding a mate. In tough times, such people tend to cause trouble. What better way to "dispose" of the problem than to send them off on military ventures. That's a pretty formidable army, no matter how poorly armed.
(Score: 4, Touché) by ThePhilips on Monday January 25 2016, @08:43AM
our economy depends on the ability to innovate. And if there's a dedicated nation state who's using its intelligence apparatus to steal day in and day out what we're trying to develop, that poses a serious threat to our country
Oh cry me a river.
Then what about the USA companies hacking and spying on the European companies? ...and vice versa?
I lived in Dresden for some time. The tale of how Saxons have stolen the secret of Pilsen beer from Czechs is very popular there. Just like the tale of how they have cracked the secret of Chinese porcelain.
The story is as old as the concept of business is. [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 4, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @08:54AM
I'm not going to argue about the theft of pilsen beer from anyone. I do, however, have a question. If American Pilsener beer was stolen from anyone, why the hell would they care? Piss water is piss water, after all. Now, if you were talking about a good laager, or a nice ale, I might be willing to come to someone's defense. Pilsener? Phhtttt. Ignorant rednecks argue about which of them is "best". It's hardly a fit discussion for anyone with an IQ larger than his shoe size.
(Score: 3, Funny) by ThePhilips on Monday January 25 2016, @11:30AM
I'm not going to argue about the theft of pilsen beer from anyone. I do, however, have a question. If American Pilsener beer was stolen from anyone, why the hell would they care? Piss water is piss water, after all.
From Dresden (or Meissen, the historical capital of Saxony) it's 150km on dry land to Prague (or 250km to Pilsen).
From Saxony or Czech Republic to America, it's whole Atlantic ocean !
No wonder the recipe got watered down so much!
P.S.
Now, if you were talking about a good laager
Pils belong to the lagers too, btw.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @12:31PM
I did use the qualifier "good" when I said laager. ;^)
(Score: 2) by ThePhilips on Monday January 25 2016, @12:52PM
Not really. What you have said is:
good laager, or a nice ale
"Nice" and "ale" in the same sentence?
With such poor taste, how can you even complain that the pils taste like piss?? Next thing you'd say that cider is drinkable too. But telling good lager from pils is definitely impossible for your.
:*)
P.S. I guess that you probably then prefer the south-german "weizen"/"weiss" beer? I personally actually also do not like Pils: unless it is properly cooled to the 2 Celsius degrees for some time, it tastes real bad. I prefer the "Export" and "Altbier", with occasional glass of "hefe weizen". Best part of hefe weizen biers that they can be drunk warm: a good fit for the winter evenings.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @02:08PM
Get off my lawn you fucking hipster beer snobs.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday January 25 2016, @04:44PM
Well, gramps - laager is kinda like women. If you try women, you'll never go back to goats. And, if you try laager, you'll never go back to American style pilseners. If that is snobbish, well, so be it.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @10:17AM
So the claim is that Americans stole a beer recipe from the Czechs by allowing a Czech brewer to immigrate to America whilst simultaneously calling American beer Piss Water. The people of Dresden really need to work on diversifying their gene pool away from the local sheep farm.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Dr Spin on Monday January 25 2016, @09:54AM
money, women and an apartment
Perhaps if the Americans paid their staff better, this would not have happened.
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @10:22AM
Gimme free shit for free! All source code must be in the GitHub. Closed source is illegal and punishable by torture. Listen up, world! The nerds have spoken!
(Score: 3, Insightful) by PizzaRollPlinkett on Monday January 25 2016, @12:31PM
So "our economy depends on the ability to innovate" explains patents, DRM, paywalls, properietary design, trade secrets, and so on.
(E-mail me if you want a pizza roll!)
(Score: 2) by ThePhilips on Monday January 25 2016, @12:58PM
Well, of course. Just look at how huge the market is for the patent and design lawyers! The DRM and paywalls are huge cash-cows too: imagine getting a penny for every transaction! So much money - it's definitely good for the economy! /s
(Score: 2) by tibman on Monday January 25 2016, @03:31PM
It really has to be. Companies have been exporting as much labor as possible to build the actual products. Which means they rely on the law to prevent the 3rd parties from stealing everything required to build the product on their own. When companies offshore their work they are just building their future competitors.
SN won't survive on lurkers alone. Write comments.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 25 2016, @04:49PM
Nuke 'em til they glow and shoot 'em in the dark!
We'll see how much they can steal then.
Vote Trump 2016 and we'll straighten all this out!