Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

SoylentNews is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop. Only 15 submissions in the queue.
posted by martyb on Sunday April 10 2016, @06:18PM   Printer-friendly
from the emoji-say-it-best:- dept.

Queen's University Microbiologists Unmask the Hannibal Route Enigma:

Where did Hannibal cross the Alps?

Hannibal was the Commander-in-Chief of the Carthaginian army during the Second Punic War with Rome (218 –201 BC). He famously led his troops (thirty thousand men, just thirty seven elephants and over fifteen thousand horses and mules) across the Alps to invade Italia - bringing the Roman army to its knees. ...this campaign is rightly regarded today as one of the finest military endeavours of antiquity.

[...] For over two thousand years, historians, statesmen and academics have argued about the route Hannibal took across the Alps. Until now, no solid archaeological evidence has been forthcoming. However, this week – publishing on-line in the Journal Archaeometry– Queen's University's microbiologist Dr Chris Allen and his international team of colleagues, led by Professor Bill Mahaney (York University, Toronto), have finally provided solid evidence for the most likely transit route that took Hannibal's forces across the Alps via the Col de Traversette pass (~3000 m).

[...] Using a combination of microbial metagenome analysis, environmental chemistry, geomorphic and pedological investigation, pollen analyses and various other geophysical techniques, the researchers have shown that a 'mass animal deposition' event occurred near the Col de Traversette - that can be directly dated to approximately 2168 cal yr BP, i.e. 218 BC.

Dr Chris Allen, from the Institute for Global Food Security at Queen's University Belfast, said: "The deposition lies within a churned-up mass from a 1-metre thick alluvial mire, produced by the constant movement of thousands of animals and humans. Over 70 per cent of the microbes in horse manure are from a group known as the Clostridia, that are very stable in soil - surviving for thousands of years. We found scientifically significant evidence of these same bugs in a genetic microbial signature precisely dating to the time of the Punic invasion."

Additional Coverage at The Conversation.

Biostratigraphic Evidence Relating to the Age-Old Question of Hannibal's Invasion of Italy, I: History and Geological Reconstruction (DOI: 10.1111/arcm.12231)

Biostratigraphic Evidence Relating to the Age-Old Question of Hannibal's Invasion of Italy, II: Chemical Biomarkers and Microbial Signatures (DOI: 10.1111/arcm.12228)

💩 submitted from IRC


Original Submission

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @06:25PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @06:25PM (#329764)

    This so-called "scientific study" is obviously horse manure.

    • (Score: 2) by Tork on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:17PM

      by Tork (3914) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:17PM (#329814)
      Besides, we all know it was lambs and not horses.
      --
      🏳️‍🌈 Proud Ally 🏳️‍🌈
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:15PM

    by frojack (1554) on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:15PM (#329781) Journal

    "The deposition lies within a churned-up mass from a 1-metre thick alluvial mire, produced by the constant movement of thousands of animals and humans.

    The route has been used for centuries before and after Hannibal's time.
    And its been constantly churned by the horse traffic from trade and migration.
    So how do they date that to a specific event, lasting probably not more than 3 days, that consisted ONLY of fifteen thousand horses?

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:11PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:11PM (#329794)

      So how do they date that to a specific event

      I'm not sure. Based on my extensive exposure to horses I can attest to the fact that they do not sign & date their work.

      • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday April 11 2016, @04:00AM

        by captain normal (2205) on Monday April 11 2016, @04:00AM (#329890)

        Yeah, it's pretty amassing how just one horse can turn a couple of flakes of hay and a bucket of pellets into a wheelbarrow full of hay every morning. Just think how much horse poop there is in 15000 wheelbarrows a day.

        --
        The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:28PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:28PM (#329800)

      > And its been constantly churned by the horse traffic from trade and migration.

      And yet elephants are not frequent users of the pass.

    • (Score: 2) by Reziac on Monday April 11 2016, @03:19AM

      by Reziac (2489) on Monday April 11 2016, @03:19AM (#329882) Homepage

      An army leaves a whole lot more manure than does a trade caravan, or even a whole season worth of trade caravans. Nonetheless, that's a good point, as it was probably a well-used route. Elephant feces would be definitive; horse feces, not so much.

      --
      And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 11 2016, @09:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 11 2016, @09:30AM (#329955)

      And 2016 - 2168 = -152, not -217
      That's out by pretty much 3 generations.

      • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday April 11 2016, @05:40PM

        by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday April 11 2016, @05:40PM (#330131) Journal

        I'm guessing people were starting families by 20 years old 2000 years ago so its probably closer to 7 or 8 generations.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Adamsjas on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:20PM

    by Adamsjas (4507) on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:20PM (#329782)

    Hw exactly does that submitted by IRC work, and why is that an option?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:35PM

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:35PM (#329788) Journal

      Some of us hang out on Soylent's IRC channel(s). There are a couple of bots on the main channel that will submit stories for you. ~submit URL for exec, and #submit URL for Mr. Plow. It just saves time and effort in making the submission - you don't have to decide how to format it or anything, no cut and paste, no checking that the URL's work. Basically, it's convenient for a those lazy gits who are nostalgic for the "good old days" on IRC. No war scripts or anything like that though, those are history.

      irc.sylnt.us - you can use SSL here to keep the NSA from spying on you. Not that it matters, one of the bots belongs to the NSA. You'll recognize him easily enough. _NSAKEY kinda gives him away.

      --
      “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
      • (Score: 2) by captain normal on Monday April 11 2016, @04:05AM

        by captain normal (2205) on Monday April 11 2016, @04:05AM (#329891)

        So basically all you need to do is post a link in IRC? Why can't we have it just as easy in our regular forum?

        --
        The Musk/Trump interview appears to have been hacked, but not a DDOS hack...more like A Distributed Denial of Reality.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday April 11 2016, @08:41AM

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 11 2016, @08:41AM (#329944) Journal

          Well, I don't speak for management, but, I suspect that the "easy" way is reserved for us very special people. The masses have to jump through hoops, while we take shortcuts. You might contact someone important for more input - OR, you could just join us on IRC and take advantage of the bots.

          Of course, exec is having problems right now. I've put in a call for the men in white coats to take him to the nervous hospital, but Mr. Plow seems to be alright.

          --
          “I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:50PM

      by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:50PM (#329791) Journal

      Theoretically you can submit a text description along with a link instead of just a link. But if you follow the Original Submission for this story you'll see what IRC submissions typically look like.

      --
      [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:22PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @07:22PM (#329783)

    I wonder what "scientifically significant" means. Are people finally starting to wise up to the "statistical significance" trick?

    Also, doesn't anyone else find it odd that the two major military leaders in this struggle have pretty much the same origin story?

    At an early age, Scipio joined the Roman struggle (because his father and uncle died in war) against Carthage in the Second Punic War. At some point, he is said to have promised his father to continue the struggle against Carthage all his life

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scipio_Africanus [wikipedia.org]

    According to Polybius, Hannibal much later said that when he came upon his father and begged to go with him, Hamilcar agreed and demanded that he swear that as long as he lived he would never be a friend of Rome. There is even an account of him at a very young age begging his father to take him to an overseas war. In the story, Hannibal's father took him up and brought him to a sacrificial chamber. Hamilcar held Hannibal over the fire roaring in the chamber and made him swear that he would never be a friend of Rome. Other sources report that Hannibal told his father, "I swear so soon as age will permit...I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal [wikipedia.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:08PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:08PM (#329793)

      I wonder what "scientifically significant" means.

      It means it was specifically mentioned in their grant paperwork.

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:21PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:21PM (#329797)

      Not that weird. The fashion in history for showing commonalities between great men was started by Plutarch and his book Lives.

      Worth a read. Better than any modern pulp sci-fi, fantasy, series.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:25PM (#329818)

        Interesting, I didn't know it was a meme at the time.

  • (Score: 2) by BK on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:20PM

    by BK (4868) on Sunday April 10 2016, @08:20PM (#329796)

    Nt

    --
    ...but you HAVE heard of me.
  • (Score: 2) by Gravis on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:23PM

    by Gravis (4596) on Sunday April 10 2016, @10:23PM (#329816)

    I read "Horse Poo" as "Morse Poo" and thought, "what did, he crap out morse code of where he's going?"