from the when-does-the-seamripper-go-on-sale dept.
AMD's Threadripper 2 TR 2990WX will be available for retail on August 13. The CPU has 32 cores and the suggested retail price is $1,799, compared to $1,999 for Intel's 18-core i9-7980XE. A 24-core TR 2970WX will be available in October for $1,299.
The 16-core TR 2950X ($899, August 31) and 12-core TR 2920X ($649, October) replace their counterparts from the last generation of Threadripper CPUs, but have slightly improved "12nm" Zen+ cores like the other Threadripper 2 CPUs. The 16 and 12-core chips use 2 dies while the 24 and 32-core versions use 4 dies.
A benchmark leak shows the 32-core TR 2990WX outperforming Intel's 18-core i9-7980XE by 53% in the multithreaded Cinebench R15 (this is an early result, may not represent the final performance, and may be overly favorable to AMD).
Also at Tom's Hardware and Engadget.
Related: First Two AMD Threadripper Chips Out on Aug. 10, New 8-Core Version on Aug. 31
Intel Teases 28 Core Chip, AMD Announces Threadripper 2 With Up to 32 Cores
AMD Ratcheting Up the Pressure on Intel
Related Stories
AMD's TR 1950X (16 cores) and TR 1920X (12 cores) CPUs will be released on August 10th:
The news at the top of the hour is the date at which AMD is making Threadripper and associated TR4 based motherboards available at retail: August 10th. This is expected to be a full worldwide retail launch, so don't be surprised if your favorite retailer starts posting teaser images about how much stock they have. August 10th will see both the 1950X and 1920X with their retail packaging, along with motherboards from the main four motherboard vendors.
AMD has also announced an 8-core version of Threadripper, the TR 1900X, for $549. Why buy it instead of spending $300 on the Ryzen 7 1700 or $420 on the Ryzen 7 1800X, both of which have eight cores?
There are some questions around why AMD would release an 8-core Threadripper, given that the Ryzen 7 1800X is also eight core and currently retails around $399 when distributor sales are factored in. The main thing here is going to be IO, specifically that the user is going to get access to quad channel memory and all the PCIe lanes required for multi-GPU or multi-add-in cards, along with a super high-end motherboard that likely contains multiple CPU-based PCIe x4 storage and/or 10G Ethernet and additional features.
Previously: CPU Rumor Mill: Intel Core i9, AMD Ryzen 9, and AMD "Starship"
AMD 16/12-Core Threadripper Details Confirmed
AMD released Threadripper CPUs in 2017, built on the same 14nm Zen architecture as Ryzen, but with up to 16 cores and 32 threads. Threadripper was widely believed to have pushed Intel to respond with the release of enthusiast-class Skylake-X chips with up to 18 cores. AMD also released Epyc-branded server chips with up to 32 cores.
This week at Computex 2018, Intel showed off a 28-core CPU intended for enthusiasts and high end desktop users. While the part was overclocked to 5 GHz, it required a one-horsepower water chiller to do so. The demonstration seemed to be timed to steal the thunder from AMD's own news.
Now, AMD has announced two Threadripper 2 CPUs: one with 24 cores, and another with 32 cores. They use the "12nm LP" GlobalFoundries process instead of "14nm", which could improve performance, but are currently clocked lower than previous Threadripper parts. The TDP has been pushed up to 250 W from the 180 W TDP of Threadripper 1950X. Although these new chips match the core counts of top Epyc CPUs, there are some differences:
At the AMD press event at Computex, it was revealed that these new processors would have up to 32 cores in total, mirroring the 32-core versions of EPYC. On EPYC, those processors have four active dies, with eight active cores on each die (four for each CCX). On EPYC however, there are eight memory channels, and AMD's X399 platform only has support for four channels. For the first generation this meant that each of the two active die would have two memory channels attached – in the second generation Threadripper this is still the case: the two now 'active' parts of the chip do not have direct memory access.
This also means that the number of PCIe lanes remains at 64 for Threadripper 2, rather than the 128 of Epyc.
Threadripper 1 had a "game mode" that disabled one of the two active dies, so it will be interesting to see if users of the new chips will be forced to disable even more cores in some scenarios.
Intel expects to lose some server/data center market share to AMD's Epyc line of chips:
The pitched battle between Intel and AMD has spread to the data center, and while Intel has been forthcoming that it expects to lose some market share in the coming months to AMD, Brian Krzanich's recent comments to Instinet analyst Roman Shah give us some insight into the surprising scope of AMD's threat. Shah recently sat down with Intel CEO Brian Krzanich and Barron's reported on his findings:
Shah relates that Krzanich "was very matter-of-fact in saying that Intel would lose server share to AMD in the second half of the year," which is not news, but he thought it significant that "Mr. Krzanich did not draw a firm line in the sand as it relates to AMD's potential gains in servers; he only indicated that it was Intel's job to not let AMD capture 15-20% market share." (emphasis added).
Furthermore, Intel's problems with the "10nm" node could allow AMD to pick up market share with "7nm" (although it may be similar in performance to Intel's "10nm"):
Nomura Instinet is less bullish on further stock gains for Intel after talking to the chipmaker's CEO, Brian Krzanich. [...] The analyst said Intel's problems in moving to its next-generation chip manufacturing technology may be a factor in its potential market share losses. The chipmaker revealed on its April 26 earnings conference call that it delayed volume production under its 10-nanometer chip manufacturing process to next year. Conversely, AMD said on its call that it plans to start next-generation 7-nanometer chip production in late 2018.
[...] "We see Mr. Krzanich's posture here reflecting the company's inability thus far to sufficiently yield 10nm for volume production while AMD's partner TSMC is currently making good progress on 7nm; thus, setting Intel up for stiff competition again in 2019," the analyst said.
Here are a couple of post-mortem articles on Intel's misleading 28-core CPU demo and more:
Rather than 28 cores, Intel may introduce 20 and 22 core CPUs to compete with AMD's Threadripper 2, along with 8-core Coffee Lake refresh CPUs to compete with Ryzen.
Intel Announces 9th Gen Core CPUs: Core i9-9900K (8-Core), i7-9700K, & i5-9600K
Among many of Intel's announcements today, a key one for a lot of users will be the launch of Intel's 9th Generation Core desktop processors, offering up to 8-cores on Intel's mainstream consumer platform. These processors are drop-in compatible with current Coffee Lake and Z370 platforms, but are accompanied by a new Z390 chipset and associated motherboards as well. The highlights from this launch is the 8-core Core i9 parts, which include a 5.0 GHz turbo Core i9-9900K, rated at a 95W TDP.
[...] Leading from the top of the stack is the Core i9-9900K, Intel's new flagship mainstream processor. This part is eight full cores with hyperthreading, with a base frequency of 3.6 GHz at 95W TDP, and a turbo up to 5.0 GHz on two cores. Memory support is up to dual channel DDR4-2666. The Core i9-9900K builds upon the Core i7-8086K from the 8th Generation product line by adding two more cores, and increasing that 5.0 GHz turbo from one core to two cores. The all-core turbo is 4.7 GHz, so it will be interesting to see what the power consumption is when the processor is fully loaded. The Core i9 family will have the full 2MB of L3 cache per core.
[...] Also featuring 8-cores is the Core i7-9700K, but without the hyperthreading. This part will have a base frequency of 3.6 GHz as well for a given 95W TDP, but can turbo up to 4.9 GHz only on a single core. The i7-9700K is meant to be the direct upgrade over the Core i7-8700K, and although both chips have the same underlying Coffee Lake microarchitecture, the 9700K has two more cores and slightly better turbo performance, but less L3 cache per core at only 1.5MB per.
Intel also announced refreshed 8 to 18 core high-end desktop CPUs, and a new 28-core Xeon aimed at extreme workstation users.
Related:
Intel Teases 28 Core Chip, AMD Announces Threadripper 2 With Up to 32 Cores
AMD Threadripper 2 Available Starting on August 13
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @02:12AM (1 child)
Isn't this going to require a special motherboard with not only the correct socket but one that can handle the extra power requirements of 32 cores? Unless I'm wrong on that, I think the mobo considerations should be included here for such a first-of-its-kind chip.
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday August 07 2018, @02:16AM
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13123/amd-threadripper-2-teaser-pre-orders-start-today-up-to-32-cores/4 [anandtech.com]
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper_2-vs-intel-core_x,37550.html [tomshardware.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by black6host on Tuesday August 07 2018, @03:48AM (8 children)
Man, I just bought a new computer 2 years ago. I'm not due for another for 15 years! Guess I'll be missing out : )
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Subsentient on Tuesday August 07 2018, @04:04AM (6 children)
I like you. I'm the same way. I don't need immense processing power, just adequate.
My best machine was manufactured in 2008.
The Core 2 Quad Q9500 in that old Dell Optiplex 755 with 8GB of DDR2 RAM is more than enough for what I do.
Fedora doesn't take more than a couple hundred MB of RAM to boot to an XFCE desktop, and the most memory intensive thing I typically do is firefox and QEMU virtual machines.
My cheapo AMD Radeon HD 7450 GPU is just good enough to run most games I actually care about, and the Core 2 Quad is more than enough for most of the compiling I do with my programming projects.
I have a 2TB Seagate drive in it, but I'd like to add a larger one eventually. I'm not worried about the BIOS drive size limit, I'm good at fuckering my way around those issues.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." -Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Score: 4, Informative) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday August 07 2018, @04:59AM (5 children)
I too hang on to old computers.
Problem is, with these 14nm chips, the same performance as that Q9500 can be had in a much smaller and lower power package. Your aging system probably uses about 100W, while the low power versions of these newer systems use only 30W max, and 10W for low intensity work such as text editing. If you run your computer 8 hours per day, that's about half a kilowatt hour of additional power used. Sure, at 10 cents per kWh, that's only 5 cents per day, but it adds up. Comes to about $18 per year. That's $54 per year if you run them 24/7 so you can do stuff like Folding at Home. Plus, you get integrated graphics that actually performs decently-- a bit better than that Radeon HD 7450, actually. Integrated graphics isn't total garbage like it was 15 years ago.
Throw in the facts that hard drives last about 5 years, and that an SSD is way, way faster, and may now exceed the HDD in reliability and longevity, and that computers don't have to be in huge towers any more, you should seriously consider upgrading soon. You could wait a bit longer, for 10nm, 7nm, or even 5nm stuff. And for fixes to Spectre. And I'd certainly like hardware decoding of the latest video codec, AV1, but that's probably 3 years or more away. I decided to upgrade last year, before the Spectre story broke. I'd rather not have that vulnerability, but it sounds like it's going to be a couple of years wait for chip makers to get on the ball and really fix that issue. Right now, they're offering lame mitigations that don't totally fix it. One other thing was that before I upgraded, I didn't have any x86 chips with the latest additions to the instruction set, SSE4. All that was enough to persuade me it was time. I wanted to wait a bit longer for AMD's Ryzen, but they were taking too long to suit me. Now of course, Ryzen is available, and it's had a wonderful dampening effect on prices. Yeah, now is a good time to upgrade.
(Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday August 07 2018, @05:12AM
Wow, I hope not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1#Adoption [wikipedia.org]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by dwilson on Tuesday August 07 2018, @03:02PM (2 children)
Where have you been buying your drives? If that's the statistical average than I've been hitting well above it for over a decade. I've still got ten year old 120gb drives in a raid5 array, spinning merrily.
- D
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Wednesday August 08 2018, @01:43AM (1 child)
My older hard drives all still work. It's my newer 1T and 1.5T WD drives that failed early, the green in just 9 months, and the blue in 3 years. For the 3rd drive, got a Fujitsu, and it's been working fine.
(Score: 2) by dwilson on Saturday August 11 2018, @03:22AM
Well, that's fair. Of the three drives I've purchased in the past five years (two 1TB and two 2TB), one of the 1TB ones has failed. Well SMART data showed signs of imminent failure, so I replaced it and it's buddy with the 2TB drives and kept the other 1TB as a spare.
Now you've got me wondering when the 2TB ones are going to pack it in. Thanks!
- D
(Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Tuesday August 07 2018, @06:39PM
My electric is $0.11 per kwh so I save even more by the switch. But when you jump from an older processor to a new one it gets expensive quickly. I need to replace the motherboard, CPU, and memory. And while SSDs are more energy efficient, they're not cheap. I have SSDs for all of my boot drives but the data is on spinning rust drives for cost reasons.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @04:26AM
I last upgraded my computer when Star Citizen was about to come out.
I plan to upgrade next when Star Citizen is about to come out.
15 years sounds about right.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @04:05AM (3 children)
Or is it still reserved for their server grade CPUs?
(Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday August 07 2018, @04:27AM (2 children)
You're thinking of Intel. AMD Ryzen and Threadripper both support ECC.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday August 07 2018, @08:16AM (1 child)
... and the ECC-capable motherboards probably command a pretty significant premium for the privilege.
(Score: 3, Informative) by MrNemesis on Tuesday August 07 2018, @02:09PM
Not that I've seen so far, although the only manufacturer I've seen who explicitly says ECC on all of their zen boards is supported is ASRock (although my info could be out of date), and those don't command any sort of price premium I'm aware of. The Zen memory controller explicitly supports ECC, so all that's needed on the motherboard side is a) ensure the few extra memory traces are there for ECC to function and b) BIOS support for enabling it. Lots of people have posted output from EDAC showing ECC functional on linux systems.
Bear in mind that Zen only supports ECC UDIMMs (unbuffered) rather than the more common RDIMMs (registered), and the Raven Ridge APUs don't support ECC memory at all (the Raven Ridge Pro APUs do, but are impossible to buy at retail).
"To paraphrase Nietzsche, I have looked into the abyss and been sick in it."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @05:31AM (3 children)
I am tempted to get a new rig with this zen core, but the spy engine dissuades me.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 07 2018, @06:00AM (2 children)
Can't PSP be disabled in the BIOS?
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by requerdanos on Tuesday August 07 2018, @11:48AM (1 child)
Phoronix says that Reddit says [phoronix.com] that there is a "disable" option, viz.:
In my (possibly paranoid) opinion, however, an option to "turn off BIOS support" for your computer's built-in secret full-privelige rootkit controlled by not-you still isn't very reassuring, because it doesn't take away your having a secret full-privelege rootkit controlled by not-you.
Even if both the PSP and IME are totally only being used for the good of mankind, the underlying problem is that by their very design they represent the ability to defeat all encryption and to spy on every file, network packet, and byte of memory on a computer, representing a pretty big target for abuse. There is nobody for whom that's not a bad thing.
If you are an individual, the PSP/IME is something that should concern you because it has full access to your computer and everything it's connected to, and so, by extension, do people, corporations and/or governments whose interests certainly do not perfectly align with your own.
If you are an oppressive government who has purchased or coerced access to the PSP or IME, it's something that should concern you because in your unique position, you know for a fact that they are giving out access and just because you have access, that doesn't mean you are the only oppressive government with access and someone else has full access to your computers just as you have access to your citizen-victims' computers.
This is a worst-case scenario, but the problem is that it's not an unreasonable one: It's worst-case by design.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @07:27PM
yes, we need to be able to use coreboot/libreboot on your hardware, amd. otherwise, we can't trust your shit.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @05:57AM (2 children)
Does the multicore hardware do anything to speed up today's crazy-slow rube-goldberg websites?
I am wondering what the benefit of these 20-30 core chips are for those not doing video/audio processing, heavy-duty number crunching tasks.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Tuesday August 07 2018, @06:07AM (1 child)
Possibly, but if you are already running something like uMatrix and Adblock, you probably don't have (m)any background tabs running heavy scripts, so the problem you are talking about lives only in your nightmares. What you probably want is a few more GB of RAM (so that you can open dozens or hundreds of tabs and never have to reload them).
On a 2 GB Chromebook, I'll have tabs crash once in a while due to low overall available memory. With the amount of RAM someone will be running alongside a Threadripper chip, I'm sure they will never have a problem unless they really need 1,000 tabs open.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by Apparition on Tuesday August 07 2018, @11:33AM
Heck, these days 4GB is pushing it for web browsing.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 07 2018, @08:16AM (1 child)
Meltdown? Spectre? The newer stuff? They said the fixes will be available in Zen2 ( https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-2-cpus-fix-spectre-exploit/ [wccftech.com] ) but apparently this isn't it? I know they're still better off than Intel in all regards (performance, power and cost) since the Intel's Speculative countermeasures shaved off a clean 20-25% off their performance leaving them biting AMD's dust... But still. A word from AMD on the current state of the architecture and a comparison with Intel would be nice.
(Score: 2) by Apparition on Tuesday August 07 2018, @11:34AM
Threadripper 2 is based on Zen+. Zen 2 isn't due until sometime next year.