Since water is a key ingredient in beer, it being mostly water, polluted water threatens beer quality.
Thursday a group of 59 craft breweries sent a letter to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers opposing the agencies' "Dirty Water Rule" proposal to slash clean water protections for waterways around the country.
These brewers, who are partners in NRDC's Brewers for Clean Water campaign, are standing up for safeguards that protect the sources of clean water on which their businesses depend.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
59 Craft Breweries Tell EPA Dirty Water Proposal Threatens Key Ingredient: Water
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 53 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1)
(1)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @07:27PM
Make Ameriga Greet Agian! Cheers!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @07:45PM (23 children)
This admin has been tearing down the weak remaining barriers to corporate pollution and selling out the US even faster than ever before. Our executive branch is more friendly to hostile dictatorships than to US citizens.
I am so angry that this is being allowed to continue through the absolutely transparent lies by the POTUS and Fox News. They have nothing in common with traditionally conservative values and have spun a narrative trapping my fellow countrymen who would otherwise be overall decent people.
Those two outlets are actively promoting violence against liberals and using that emotional distraction to destroy our country, and the people buying into the false narrative are actively instructed to not listen to reason.
The US is being played like a fiddle.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:07PM (6 children)
I have an idea. Let's raise taxes and give the government even more money and power.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:23PM (5 children)
Look, two cube sharing ruskies sewing division and discord right before our very eyes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:52PM (4 children)
Are you saying that wasn't the idea being implied? Why can't these breweries just get reverse osmosis machines like my friend has for his fish tank to purify their own water? That is what I expected them to be doing anyway.
That said, I am in favor of clean water and most of this "pollution" is probably produced due to making stuff people only buy because they gave up on saving from it constantly inflating away.
(Score: 3, Informative) by MostCynical on Friday March 08 2019, @10:19PM (3 children)
Reverse osmosis is not enough. All the extra filtration adds to the cost of production.
https://www.lenntech.com/processes/heavy/heavy-metals-removal.htm [lenntech.com]
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/25959632.pdf [core.ac.uk]
https://blog.wychwood-water.com/what-impurities-does-reverse-osmosis-not-remove [wychwood-water.com]
"I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @10:36PM (2 children)
If it is enough for these fish it is enough for humans. Aquarium grade is higher quality than human/edible grade.
From your third link:
I have no idea what "molecularly smaller" means, but this is the most widely used pesticide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water [wikipedia.org]
So they are saying that somehow the much larger pesticide molecules can fit through smaller pores?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @10:45PM
Methane (CH4) has molecular weight of 16.043 (slightly less than water). Assumign they are all "organic" molecules, I don't think any pesticide could have MW less than that.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday March 11 2019, @08:19AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:20PM (6 children)
Traditional conservative values are rooted in the same Calvinist predestination beliefs that justify everything the party and administration is currently doing. The fact that the people dying from cancer don't get it is just proof God already decided they belong in hell. And if they happen to be a good upstanding citizens, it's God's way of testing them and their families. And if they're in perpetual poverty / slaves, that's Ham's curse. You can't have social healthcare because if God wanted those people healthy he woudln't have made them sick. And if he wants them cured, he'll give you money so you'd charitably give it away for them... The only difference nowadays is that they replaced "God" with the "invisible hand of the market".
Really, read some Adam Smith. As far as traditional conservative values go, Trump is Jesus 2nd coming.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:12PM (4 children)
All of that goes against the core teachings of Jesus to which those people profess belief. I have heard many of their reasons, but explaining the history behind their development does not change their blatant hypocrisy. I enjoyed your comment though.
Still angry at the idiocy and hatred.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:17PM (3 children)
Member of one religion hates another.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:23PM (2 children)
You trying to throw some shade brah? Angry that people think religion is founded in stupidity and evil?
Jesus hated religion or so I've heard, that means Christians will be dancing a pretty tune to the Devil's mad fiddle skillz.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:26PM (1 child)
Trust me, I am the most anti-religion person in the thread. The problem is religion has gone "underground", and now often masquerades as something else (political parties, science-mimicking research, etc)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @01:33AM
Flamebait? I am not kidding when I say I refuse to enter a church for wedding, funeral, or any reason at all. Last wedding I sat on a curb in the parking lot drinking instead of go in. I saw them all kneeling to some guy who claims to know what happens after you die, and they saw me and wished they were out there too.
(Score: 2) by cmdrklarg on Friday March 08 2019, @10:22PM
Yup. The religious bullshit is useful in getting the vast unwashed masses to go along with what is essentially Vulture Capitalism writ large on a national scale, with the neutering of the clean water rule as part of the leveraged buyout.
The world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Friday March 08 2019, @08:59PM (7 children)
Just because somebody you don't like gets into power (a thing which happens pretty often in a democracy BTW) doesn't mean they can magically tear down society. Laws are by their nature pretty hard to reverse. And the Executive Branch can't reverse law (at least at present). What they can reverse (and equally can implement) is arbitrary rules imposed by the previous administrations without the backing of the Legislative Branch.
And some of that has been pretty ridiculous. The EPA rules on wetlands are pretty abusive and some of the worst regulation the US has ever imposed. I think it's sad that it's taken Trump to reverse some of this stuff.
(Score: 4, Funny) by fritsd on Friday March 08 2019, @09:07PM (1 child)
Look, everybody!
khallow has found evidence that Trump is draining the swamp! :-)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 09 2019, @08:50PM
Indeed.
(Score: 2, Funny) by realDonaldTrump on Friday March 08 2019, @10:46PM (1 child)
Thank you, I'm working very hard for you -- and ALL AMERICANS. Including our Brewers. You elected me because I promised to CUT UNNECESSARY REGULATIONS. Promise kept!
I inherited a mess from Cheatin' Obama. And part of that was something called W.O.T.U.S. (rhymes with P.O.T.U.S.). Also known as the Waters of the United States rule. A rule, not a law. Meaning I can do the Repeal & Replace on that one.
And I've done a whole process on that one. In my 2nd. month in office I signed the papers paving the way for the elimination of the W.O.T.U.S rule. Telling my people (D.E.P. & Army -- so brave) to look into, is it promoting economic growth. And look into minimizing regulatory uncertainty. They took a very careful look at that one. Very careful. In December we came out with the new rule. Which I called Restoring the Rule of Law, Federalism, and Economic Growth by Reviewing the "Waters of the United States" Rule. Otherwise known as Executive Order 13778.
Now it's March. And now a few of our Brewers are all, "oh, what about our water!" These are foolish people. We have the best water. And I know more about water than anybody. Because I have my own Bottled Water -- Trump Water, a true luxury water. Which is served exclusively at Trump Hotels & Resorts. Do they think we'd serve bad water to our guests? youtu.be/3lXA1VH6mUw [youtu.be]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @02:26AM
Why isn't this modded spam. He's obviously pitching "Trump Water".
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @12:43AM (1 child)
khallow, you're an idiot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 09 2019, @09:06PM
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 09 2019, @02:33AM
Few people care to understand the wetlands bullshit. Especially since almost all our members live in cities, and know nothing about wetlands. Ironic that pretty much every major city on the east coast paved over vast swamps to build their cities. Manhattan, for instance. Now those city dwellers are happy to vote in favor of rules and regulations forbidding a land owner a thousand miles away from diverting an ephemeral stream of water to someplace more convenient. Swamps, marshes, and bayous are part of life, except in their own little worlds. In THEIR worlds, everything is solid concrete, and any patch of mud must be paved over to prevent it being tracked into their living rooms.
These are the great grand children of the people who drained the Everglades, after all.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @01:31AM
The American Medical Association, the Institute of Medicine (now the National Academy of Science) and the National Science Foundation have never stood behind Fox News. I would expect them all to disable their air conditioners. None have done so.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by Barenflimski on Friday March 08 2019, @08:15PM (26 children)
Its amazing that something like clean water can become a political issue. Again, people have it so good, they forget how bad it can be. Once the water is tainted it can take a human lifetime or longer to clean it up.
Whatever happened to "leave this place a little better than it was left for you", or was that the local campground sign I remember seeing?
(Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Friday March 08 2019, @08:16PM (18 children)
Or you can boil it for three minutes. The possibilities are endless!
(Score: 5, Informative) by Barenflimski on Friday March 08 2019, @08:18PM (10 children)
Boiling water doesn't remove chemicals like Prozac or Lead.
One Prozac-Lead beer coming up for you fine sir.
(Score: 2, Flamebait) by Azuma Hazuki on Friday March 08 2019, @08:53PM
Hell, that may explain his brain-damaged libertarian gibbering...Hallow was prboably that Ralph Wiggum-looking kid in the back row eating all the wall candy.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Friday March 08 2019, @09:00PM (7 children)
It takes quite a bit of those chemicals to cause such problems. Neither is particularly hard to remove from drinking water (though admittedly the process would take somewhat longer than 15 minutes, though nowhere near a human lifetime).
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:21PM (3 children)
It wasn't an exhaustive list, you moron.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 09 2019, @09:18PM (2 children)
Come on, it was a hysterical, over-the-top post that I replied to in the first place. Where's your criticism of that?
At some point, we need to realize a bunch of stuff. Not everything magically taints water supplies for a human lifetime and we can regulate more those that are actually more dangerous. Finally, we, including these beer makers, have the power to filter "tainted" water supplies ourselves, assuming it actually is a problem in far less time than a human lifetime.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @11:03PM (1 child)
Asking people to not fuck up water is hysterical and over the top now? That's the only reasonable and rational thing to do in fact.
Why should the brewers have to pay for cleaning up the water they didn't pollute in the first place? Why should people who use the waterways for recreation like swimming or canoeing have to settle with an open sewer? What about the wildlife there? Polluter pays, that's what makes sense.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Monday March 11 2019, @12:17PM
Yes, it is. We're not even close to a situation (in the US where Trump is an issue) where that question is relevant.
Because that's where they are. I assume you realize the animals that live in and near those waterways don't poop into regulated disposal systems.
Indeed. They should be following regulation too!
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @11:49PM
Dude! You're funny as hell! You got all yer "liberal" buddies dancing like Mexican Jumping Beans there! Keep up the good work! Oh, and fuck you too! I mean that in the most possible way... Wait.. I mean, Did I say that? I feel so very sorry...
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @12:07AM (1 child)
Trolling people over shit like this isn't some super clever thing to do, you know that right? You're basically asking people to figure out just how much of an idiot you are. "Is it a serious statement they made? Cause it sounds pretty stupid so hopefully it is just trolling."
While it would be wonderful if that logic worked, sadly there are lots of idiots who might say stupid shit like "boil the water to purify". They heard their grandpappy give them such advice and never bothered to think beyond that! The same reason so many Southerners want to say n***** all the time. Their elders surely weren't complete fucking morons right? RIGHT?
Trolling can be fun, but when done maliciously it is just plain stupid. No one can magically KNOW you aren't an idiot, and given the preponderance of uneducated people in the US it is safer to assume that yes, you are an idiot.
Have fun trolling you fuckwads.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 09 2019, @09:12PM
And apparently, they're just not very good at it, huh?
(Score: 2, Informative) by realDonaldTrump on Friday March 08 2019, @10:54PM
Yes it does. When you do the very special "boiling" process we do for Trump Vodka. We call it, Distilling. It makes our Vodka one of the purest. But it's not just for vodka, it works beautifully for water too. Try a Trump & Tonic today!!
(Score: 5, Informative) by leftover on Friday March 08 2019, @08:34PM (6 children)
Boiling, really? Just how will that remove metals and their salts, glyphosate, or even the usual phosphates and nitrogen compounds? I live in Ohio, USA, where a river once caught fire and one of the Great Lakes periodically becomes poisonous. Puddles of toxic liquid industrial waste on the bottoms of rivers are declared to be "safe" if they are no longer actively moving downstream. Fracking waste with unknown components is still being injected at high pressure back into the just-fractured rock under our aquifers.
Cleanup in less than one century is an ignorant pipe dream.
Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
(Score: 0, Redundant) by khallow on Friday March 08 2019, @09:03PM
What's going on that those will become a problem? A lot of things can cause "taint". The worst is none of the above chemicals, but bacteria and viruses which can grow exponentially in water supplies, but are very easy to remove, if you know what you're doing.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:10PM (4 children)
Are you sure that is accurate. There are irregularities surrounding how Ohio became a state:
https://www.thegreenpapers.com/slg/explanation-ohio-statehood.phtml [thegreenpapers.com]
Yes, "jokes"...
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Friday March 08 2019, @11:02PM
1953, they did the "law" about that one. Saying, Ohio had been a state for 150 years. It hadn't been a state. But, they made it one. And nobody questions that it's been a state for 65 years now. One of the most important for our Presidential Elections. But I never forget, ALL states are in play for those. And -- people don't know this -- District of Columbia. You are not forgotten!
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 09 2019, @02:41AM (2 children)
fait accompli
Look it up. You can find mountains of irregularities, if you care to. It won't change the fact that Ohio is a state today.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 09 2019, @04:16PM (1 child)
If we lived in a nation of laws rather than decrees, Ohio wouldn't be a state.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday March 09 2019, @04:29PM
We don't live in a nation of laws. No law has ever died on a battlefield in defense of this nation. Not at Bunker Hill, not at Gettysburg, not at Omaha Beach, not in Iraq, or any other godforsaken place where American boys bled their lives away.
“I have become friends with many school shooters” - Tampon Tim Walz
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:23PM
in demockracy everything is a political issue
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @08:25PM (4 children)
So Trump is actually forcing people to pollute now? Even if you wanted to not leave your trash at the campground, now it is illegal not to? More formally:
And don't people get these laws are named to do the opposite of what they accomplish yet?
I know people at companies that make money off doing various environment sampling and tests. From what I hear, the common perception of the effectiveness of these regulations is highly overstated. Further, there are at least 3 layers of these regulations with conflicting standards and rules (federal, state, municipal) that waste everyones time. There is more time spend on paperwork and dealing with various EPAs about stuff like how many nitrile gloves can be used per month than in actually testing the samples.
(Score: 4, Informative) by tangomargarine on Friday March 08 2019, @09:12PM (3 children)
Shockingly, if you stop punishing companies for polluting, they'll start polluting again. Because just dumping it is a hell of a lot cheaper than disposing of whatever properly.
Regulation exists because at some point it was proved that without the regulation, jerks wouldn't act reasonably in the first place. So maybe that's not always the case, but in this instance it definitely is.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:15PM (1 child)
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Monday March 11 2019, @03:17PM
If all you need to do is buy them a couple beers to come to a certain conclusion, I'm not going to trust what they say either way.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday March 09 2019, @09:11PM
This "stop punishing" thing is not happening yet.
But regulation also exists because some politicians wanted to pretend to do something.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08 2019, @09:09PM
That is one of those "white people" ideas that everyone hates now.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Friday March 08 2019, @11:53PM
You will find it very pretty
Just two things which you must beware
Don't drink the water, and don't breathe the air [latimes.com]....
Kinda sad that story never got legs... Guess we were focused on more "important" things
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..